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Hey Vale, has this brutal silver market taken Tulving out? - Page 11
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Thread: Hey Vale, has this brutal silver market taken Tulving out?

  1. #101
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    Quiet

    December 12, 2017 1:35PM EST

    There are less than 48 hours until the hearing on the Settlement Agreement. Despite the protest from many creditors (or perhaps because of it), there has been complete silence.
    I look at a number of sources for information on court happenings. The primary source is the case docket, which shows all the papers filed for the bankruptcy. Nothing has been filed regarding the Gugasian Settlement since the day the Settlement Agreement was filed with the court. Often there will be documents, such as objections/oppositions (or a notice that there are none), replys/responses, and similar documents. In this case, there has been nothing. That suggests that the local rules do not have letters written to the Judge automatically become part of the case docket (unlike, for example, the NWT Mint bankruptcy in Washington State).

    One thing that can be determined from this is that as of this writing, no creditor has had an attorney file a written opposition, which an attorney would very likely do if a creditor hired them because they were opposed to the Settlement Agreement. If an attorney is planning to do so, they are doing it quite late.

    For this issue, I am also looking at the Judge's calendar of tentative rulings. I believe she often will update that when she has information ahead of time suggesting how she will rule (e.g. stating that if there are no objections filed she will rule in favor of a motion). But she has not updated her page. That could either be typical, or indicative of her having received objections from creditors; there is no way for me to know.

    In any case, the Gugasians and the Trustee will know on Thursday how the Judge rules. Hopefully, it will not be too long after the hearing before we hear the outcome.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  2. #102
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    The Bankruptcy Judge has nailed the Tulving coffin shut....

    There are a number of additional posts and Emails, however the bottom line is, the Judge basically said to the creditors, GO FISH, it's done, over, Kaput, your not going to be screwed anymore, you've received your last token share and the lawyers get whatever spoils of war they can siphon off the top all the way to the bottom no matter what and there will not be any leftovers for the creditors.

    If a miracle should take place in the future, I'll update this thread.
    Last edited by valerb; 15th December 2017 at 08:58.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  3. #103
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    Well who saw this one coming, it's not much, but!!!




    Check From United States Treasury

    January 12, 2018 3:00PM EST

    I have now heard from several creditors who received a fairly small check from the United States Treasury, with little information on what it was about.

    It appears that the checks, ranging from an estimated $18 to $760 (depending on how much you are owed) are being sent to creditors. It looks like they are paying slightly over 0.18% of what each creditor is owed.

    It appears that the checks were sent from the Administrative Office of the United States Courts, which sent out the checks by request of the Finance Department of the U.S. District Court, Western District of North Carolina (based on the phone number listed on the check), the court where Hannes Tulving, Jr. was sentenced. It appears to be a check for restitution, based on about $29K that was received by the court.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  4. #104
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    It just keeps going, rocks are turned over and what should appear, but eight tiny reindeer


    Did Trustee Lose or Squander $385,000?


    January 16, 2018 3:55PM EST from about.ag

    From what I can tell, the Trustee was supposed to promptly distribute the $385,000 net proceeds of the auction of Non-Error coins to creditors. Needless to say, that hasn't happened. I have contacted the Trustee and will post here if I get a response.

    Back in March, 2014, the Secret Service seized non-bullion coins from The Tulving Company, as part of what became a criminal case. Despite many conflicting valuations, the non-error coins turned out to be worth roughly $385,000, with the error coins worth roughly $600,000. Over 2 years later, the Trustee started distributing the error coins to creditors (if you are a creditor and have NOT received the coins, please let me know).

    In June, 2015 The U.S. Attorney approached bankruptcy Judge Smith to approve an agreement "for the purpose of achieving prompt liquidation of seized unique and rare assets and distribution of funds for the benefit of victims." 4 reasons were given for having the bankruptcy estate handle this rather than the criminal case: [1] the list of victims would be determined more quickly, [2] the items would be sold/distributed more quickly, [3] the proceeds would be distributed more quickly, and [4] avoiding a dispute of who should control the assets, which would help allow "prompt delivery of funds to victims." Criminal Judge Cogburn ordered the Trustee to "make every effort to prioritize payments to Victims over all other payments, except for reasonable costs and expenses of liquidation approved by the Bankruptcy Court which the Parties do not object to in writing." On July 22, 2015, bankruptcy Judge Smith signed the order.

    The Trustee filed a motion with his proposal (as the agreement required), which bankruptcy Judge Smith approved, where the Trustee would "distribute the net proceeds of sale of the Non-Error Coins to Victims/Creditors." The Non-Error coins would be auctioned in a 3-6 month period , which would expose the coins to the greatest number of buyers and "bids will be subject to overbids" (p10; so the bids would be known, and anyone could then bid more).

    On May 31, 2016, the Court suddenly announced that the non-error coins would be auctioned less than 2 weeks later, in a mail-only sealed bid auction, completely contrary to what had been in the proposal and contract with Heritage Auctions. It neither exposed the coins to the greatest number of buyers (over a 3-6 month period), nor allowed overbids (it even clearly states "no overbids"), reducing the amount of money available to creditors. But at least it generated some cash.

    Then, Trustee Weneta Kosmala stated in her Trustee Report #9 "Please note that the distribution of funds in a chapter 7 case generally does not occur until the conclusion of the case" -- but that goes against the proposal (a check separate from any standard bankruptcy distributions was going to be sent to creditors for the net proceeds).

    The Trustee's attorney Linda Cantor in November, 2016 wrote "The net proceeds of the auction amounted to $385,314." This clarifies things: a layperson would assume that "net proceeds" of an auction would be the amount the auctioneer sends ($385,314 in this case) after taking their cut, and Ms. Cantor confirmed this here.

    It is very clear that the net proceeds of the sale were $385,314, which 2 Judges, the U.S. Attorney, the Trustee, and Hannes Tulving, Jr. all agreed would be distributed to creditors. So where is this money? It has been over 2 1/2 years since the Trustee signed criminal Judge Cogburn and bankruptcy Judge Smith signed an order which contemplated "expediting distribution" of "sale proceeds" and "promptly liquidat[ing] the Seized Items and distribut[ing] funds derived from liquidation to Tulving Company customers." And creditors have seen none of that money yet.

    Aside from the $385,314 of missing money, these other questions come to mind:

    •Why was it a one-time auction, when the Order and contract stated auctioning over a 3-6 month period?
    •Why was the auction held with only 11 days notice?
    •Why did the Estate pay for photographs which were not taken and/or used? Without photographs, some lots could only realistically be sold to bidders who flew to the auction site (e.g. "Lot of assorted bits and pieces").
    •What ever happened to the Error coins that creditors opted out of (which were to be auctioned, with proceeds going to creditors)?
    •Why was there very little marketing of the auction? Heritage Auctions stated it would "advertise the Non-Error Coins for sale in various print and online media", but I heard no reports of anyone seeing any such advertising.
    •Why was Heritage Auctions unable to find the auction, as reported by one potential bidder?
    •Why was the auction not on the Heritage Auctions website?
    •Judge Smith's order allowed the Trustee to employ Heritage Auctions based on the terms in Docket 391, which had the contract stating that the auctions "will take place during the first 6 months of 2016". Yet they took place on 1 day, with less than 2 weeks' notice.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  5. #105
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    Trustee is still screwing around with the money and Tulving is only a few months away from being a free person again. I guess they have to keep at it until they can justify bleeding every last drop of creditors blood.


    Halfway House

    February 10, 2018 6:35PM EST

    People are starting to get E-mails letting them know there is an update on Hannes Tulving, Jr.

    The information is that he will be transferred on February 22, 2018 to a "halfway house" (officially, a "Community Corrections Center"). His scheduled release date of June 23, 2018 remains the same, but he will be at a halfway house until then.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  6. #106
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    One last gasp?????



    There is one chance left for getting money

    I am writing to you because there may be one last chance for creditors to get back some or all of their money. But, it likely requires creditors taking a bit of time/effort to contact the U.S. Attorney.

    I was contacted by a creditor, who pointed out that the U.S. Attorney has the power to go after Levon Gugasian and Armen Gugasian, and if they committed a crime, to order restitution (money that can go to creditors). The Gugasians recently stated (as part of their defense in the bankruptcy lawsuit) that they were partners with The Tulving Company, and they previously reported that they have a combined net worth of $50M+.

    She wrote (edited a bit):

    "There is one chance left for getting money. The Tulving Company had an owner (Hannes Tulving) and two partners (Levon Gugasian and Armen Gugasian). The government only knew of the owner at first, not the partners. The trustee learned about the Gugasians but was not able to get money for creditors. If the government goes after the Gugasians, the government can order them to pay restitution: the money creditors are owed. And they have the money to pay.

    Creditors should complain to the US Attorney's Office in Los Angeles, the office responsible for this case. The new Acting US Attorney is Nicola T. Hanna (he is overall responsible for the office but not directly handling The Tulving Company's case) and the office phone number is (213) 894-2400, and Fax Line: (213) 894-0141. Remember, the squeaky wheel gets the grease - especially with government issues.

    You should say (or write) what you feel. If you need help, here are some ideas:

    •I am a victim of a $17 million fraud by The Tulving Company of Costa Mesa, CA that shut down in 2014

    •The North Carolina US Attorney's office got the owner (Hannes Tulving, Jr.) to plead guilty, but his partners were not known at that time

    •The North Carolina US Attorney's office could not account for the missing $17M, aside from a normal salary that the owner took out

    •The bankruptcy trustee filed documents showing that Gugasian was a partner, and took out millions of dollars, including a salary higher than the owner's

    •There were several lease documents filed with the court, signed by Levon Gugasian, that appear forged

    •The trustee settled the Gugasian lawsuit for a small amount, that won't get any money for creditors

    •The US Attorney has the ability to make this right, by investigating the partners, seeing if they are responsible for the $17M loss, and if so, getting them to pay restitution

    By contacting the US Attorney, you can say you did what you could to help recover the money that was stolen from you."

    I have also found a mailing address:

    UNITED STATES ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
    Central District of California
    312 N SPRING ST STE 1200
    LOS ANGELES CA 90012-2551

    And there is also a "Contact Us" form (2,000 character limit) at https://www.justice.gov/doj/webform/...rtment-justice (choose "U.S. Attorneys" from the "Topic" dropdown). If you use this, you should mention "U.S. Attorney, Central District of California" to help route your message properly.

    Someone who tried calling the U.S. Attorney's office told me he kept getting the run-around. If this happens to you, some options include calling back (the squeaky wheel: the more someone hears "Tulving Company", "Levon Gugasian" and "Armen Gugasian", the more likely they are to ask around about it), or mailing a letter (which I imagine is not likely to get thrown out before getting to someone who reads it).
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  7. #107
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    Taxes

    April 11, 2018 4:25PM EST

    I heard from a Tulving creditor who amended his 2014 tax return to add the loss as a theft loss, and that the return was accepted, and a refund issued.
    Typically the IRS has 3 years after a return is filed to audit and update the return, but if you amend a return within 60 days of that limit, the limit gets extended 60 days. So you can find out very quickly if you will get audited.

    From my understanding, however, the proper year to report the loss is the year in which it is determined that no recovery can be made, which would likely be the 2017 tax year (before December 13, 2017, we thought there would be at least some cash return; now, it appears that there will be none).

    I wrote a page about taxes for the Tulving bankruptcy a few years ago, which may have some useful information. Note that I have heard that the theft loss deduction has been taken away for the 2018 tax year, so it would only apply for the 2017 and earlier returns. This should not be an issue, however, since it would not seem to be appropriate to take the deduction in 2018 (although I am not a CPA).
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

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