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Hey Vale, has this brutal silver market taken Tulving out?
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Thread: Hey Vale, has this brutal silver market taken Tulving out?

  1. #1
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    Question Hey Vale, has this brutal silver market taken Tulving out?

    What's the inside story?

    The Tulving Company is Out of Business

    The silver market manipulation is certainly taking a toll.
    "I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone
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  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by silverheartbone View Post
    What's the inside story?

    The Tulving Company is Out of Business

    The silver market manipulation is certainly taking a toll.

    I guess anything is possible, but his web page is still up. Tulving has been pretty reliable at posting when an item is out of stock and his web page shows a ton of items in both Gold and Silver to be available.

    How many thousands of posting have you read over the years predicting Northwest Territorial Mint was going Bankrupt and they are still in business and the largest private mint in the US.

    I've read stories about Tulving's demise as well and up till now he has still been in business. I guess I'll wait a another day or two to see if it's really true, as he isn't the largest online dealer. You can never be sure if he is out of the office for an emergency or really out of the office forever. Could this be someone trying to intentionally screw with his business with false rumors?

    Tulving has maintained his lead with low premiums for the most part, not what you would expect for someone going out of business. Besides, low spot prices wont impact his business, only low volume and he can reduce his staff, which is what it appears he may have done over the past few months. If he truly is bankrupt, it is only because he got dumb and tried to out smart the market. Then he would also have had to be selling inventory he didn't have and spent the funds to procure it. That's a lot of bad moves for someone to be making that has been in business as long as Tulving. I think something more official than someone predicting Tulving's bankruptcy might be in order.
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  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post

    I guess anything is possible, but his web page is still up. Tulving has been pretty reliable at posting when an item is out of stock and his web page shows a ton of items in both Gold and Silver to be available.

    How many thousands of posting have you read over the years predicting Northwest Territorial Mint was going Bankrupt and they are still in business and the largest private mint in the US.

    I've read stories about Tulving's demise as well and up till now he has still been in business. I guess I'll wait a another day or two to see if it's really true, as he isn't the largest online dealer. You can never be sure if he is out of the office for an emergency or really out of the office forever. Could this be someone trying to intentionally screw with his business with false rumors?

    Tulving has maintained his lead with low premiums for the most part, not what you would expect for someone going out of business. Besides, low spot prices wont impact his business, only low volume and he can reduce his staff, which is what it appears he may have done over the past few months. If he truly is bankrupt, it is only because he got dumb and tried to out smart the market. Then he would also have had to be selling inventory he didn't have and spent the funds to procure it. That's a lot of bad moves for someone to be making that has been in business as long as Tulving. I think something more official than someone predicting Tulving's bankruptcy might be in order.
    I should note that there have been customer complaints about shipping delays for a long time with Tulving. I can't say everyone has been complaining, but it goes a long way back. Tulving has been known to have a short fuse and having read some of the complaints in the past, it's easy to understand how some of these people got an extra screwing. Not that they deserved it by any means, but when your getting lied to with shipping delays and you keep hounding the company about those delays, someone with a temper can take it out on the customer and intentionally add to their misery. Again, I'm not saying that is what has happened, but it's a speculation based on some of the stories I've read before. Then again we've had members on this forum posting untrue stories about NWTM that they could not support with facts. Some people like to embellish the truth, while others like to make up stories to one better the next guy. One hard fact of life for us consumers, we can't always get the best deals and best service at the same time. NWTM is a prime example, with great products (in my opinion) but long delivery delays. Thousand of customers line up to buy their products every year and especially when they are the only one selling to the public. Many customers have come to accept those 8 - 10 week delays as a normal part of stacking Silver. I did it myself back in the 90's and early 2000's, but back then they were also the best bang for your dollar, even if you did have to wait. They just didn't tell you back then, but it was common knowledge for experienced investors. I can only assume it's been pretty much the same way with Tulving for the past several years and hopefully he will continue to stay in business to help keep the cost competitive for all of us.

    I did check with the BBB today and they have had a total of 231 complaints filed in the past 12 months and all of them have been satisfied. I have no way of knowing what kind of percentage of his customers have been experiencing shipping delays as reported by others, but it doesn't appear that anyone has been screwed out of any money or product as yet.

    It should be noted that at least one dealer used this forum many years ago to bad mouth his competition. It's a cut throat business out there to some of them and no telling how often the facts become fiction.

    Tulving may be dead in the water or someone may be out to try and put him there. Only time will tell and it shouldn't take too long.
    Last edited by valerb; 7th March 2014 at 00:07.
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    I heard that the mints "Allocation" process is to blame. But what do I know?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    I heard that the mints "Allocation" process is to blame. But what do I know?

    No that would cause the product to be in short supply and higher premiums. This is a case were the dealer is accused of a bad allocation process as in, Selling first and allocating later, with it ultimately crashing down on his head, so to speak.

    No short supply, just the accusation of improprieties. Plus a warning that anyone doing any business with Tulving "might" be required to return any money paid for metal sold to them or metal purchased from them in a bankruptcy case.

    Scary stuff, but is it true or an attempt to ruin Tulving. It's all stated as speculation on the part of the publisher of that information, so I don't know if he has any legal liabilities, but he'll let everyone know if Tulving does actually file for bankruptcy.

    I know this article has been copied numerous times on the internet.

    If this is all true, it really doesn't matter to the rest of us as Tulving is out of business, we can cross him off our to buy list, but if it isn't then this guy is doing everyone a disservice.

    Truth or not, this guy is responsible for re-allocating some of Tulving's current and future sales even if it isn't. It's the power of the internet.

    Remember, if it's on the internet, it must be true and if it is, it's being put to good use, but if it isn't, how does this guy get his just reward?
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    I've tried two different methods of contacting Tulving to see if his company is still open for business and have gotten nowhere.

    I tried the direct method of a telephone call and it was not answered. I got a recorded message to Email my order.

    I sent an Email yesterday asking for a simple clarification as to rather his company is still open for business for the members on our forum and I've received no response.

    Until there are definite signs of life coming out of Tulving's company, the only assumption left for now, he is no longer in business.
    Last edited by valerb; 7th March 2014 at 02:18.
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    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/t...pany-coin.html

    I will be driving over to Gainsville coins to do my stuff in person, screw the 12.00 in gas. I thought Tulving was one of the bigger, more trust worthy scources, if that WAS a top 5 trusted place to buy from, It would end my online buying. He needs to pay those buyers back, if it means taking the roof from over his head, and the shoes off his feet

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert FGoens View Post
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/t...pany-coin.html

    I will be driving over to Gainsville coins to do my stuff in person, screw the 12.00 in gas. I thought Tulving was one of the bigger, more trust worthy scources, if that WAS a top 5 trusted place to buy from, It would end my online buying. He needs to pay those buyers back, if it means taking the roof from over his head, and the shoes off his feet

    Buying anything online has always been scary versus in person where you can walk out the door with your product in hand.

    Don't confuse Tulving's status as being one of the Best prices with being one of the largest dealers. Tulving "was" in the cherry picking business so to speak. He only sold Silver by the Monster Box, $1,000 face value 40% and 90% bags and other Silver products in 500 ounce increments. So he didn't have to deal with tons of one, two, five, ten and fifty ounce orders. This was probably not a problem when the spot price was under $10 an ounce, but as the spot price kept moving on up, he didn't decrease his minimum product purchase requirement. It's one thing to cough up $2,895 for 500 ounces of generic Silver at $5 an ounce or even $5,395 at $10, but these dealers like Tulving that refuse to deal with anyone unless they purchase minimum quantities have had to be cutting their own throats with higher spot prices and a weak economy.

    There are numerous online dealers that have been in business for a very long time, but most will sell any quantity you want, but only a few represent the very best prices and products. Some have great products and lousy prices, while other like Westminster mint have some great starting prices and lousy products, at least for the most part. But it's not just the prices and quality of product for sale, it's that third factor that so many use to help increase their profits called, shipping and handling.

    No matter how large and dependable any of the largest online dealers are, they are still at the mercy of the mints that sell products to them. Only mints that have an actual source of supply like Golden State Mint and Northwest Territorial Mint can continue to sell products when all others at the mercy of these mints selling product to them. Each time we have another so called retail shortage, these few mints are keeping more and more of that product for themselves to sell.

    That doesn't mean the large dealers are in financial trouble at all, just that they are at the mercy of these mints to supply them with products to sell until the rush for Silver dies down.

    Most of the mints do not sell products themselves, so they continue to supply dealers, like Ohio Precious Metals, Sunshine Mint, NTR and JM.

    Some mints do not sell directly to the public but sell some of their products through a store front with a different name.

    The dealer names I've used in the past and present represent the most common dealers used by the public, even if they don't sell their products at the best prices or best service.

    For instance APMEX almost always has too high of a premium for anyone to purchase anything from them in small quantities, yet they have a large following, a huge variety of inventory and they consistently run sales making those on sale items competitive.

    Northwest Territorial Mint runs in the middle of the pack when it comes to premiums, but they run specials every few months that makes their product one of the best buys. They are also the one place everyone can go to find Silver at a price that has not seen it's premium run wild when all other dealers are scalping the public in these so called retail shortages. They are the largest private mint in the US and their business model keeps them in unfavorable view with the public. They produce Silver to sell, so they are always behind in their backorders. With a common 8 - 10 week delivery window, it's only the devoted that can wait that long and those that couldn't find Silver for less when it's not for sale at their regular dealers. Not only do they produce their own NWTM and Pan American bullion product lines, but they are also the producers of many other generic products for dealers. So I keep adding NWTM to the list because it's one of the places so many purchase from and it's the "best" place to go in a pinch.

    I included Gainesville and Provident because they have always been competitive with their premiums and a lot of members buy from them. Gainesville is more of a dark horse after following them. Too many restrictions as in you really can't buy anything from them without using a credit card other than a wire transfer. A lot of people want to pay by check to save that 3% up charge. Shipping and handling charges are a dark hole with Gainesville as you can only find out what it will be in the check out process. So this makes it more of an iffy kind of dealer for many looking for small purchases. That is unless you happen to live in the Tampa Fl. area, then you can go there and buy all you want and pay with cash and no shipping charges. Not a bad deal at all. The one thing I find bad about some of Gainesville's one ounce rounds and bars, is that they are produced by the same mint producing the products sold by Westminster Mint. But whatever they may or may not have problems with dealing with small purchases, they are one of the most competitive when it comes to large quantities.

    I grouped Provident Metals in the same category with Gainesville, but you could purchase with a check and they do have one of the lowest shipping schedules around. Which has made them one of the best places to find low cost products at a great price. The problem I had with them in the past was they were also selling many of the same products sold by Westminster Mint and they have recently stopped that practice and have now started producing their own private products or someone else is making them under their label. Whatever the case, their new one ounce rounds are some of the best on the market. At least the ones I seen so far, I've ordered the last three they make to see if they are also of the same high quality. Now if they could just get into making their own bars with the same kind of quality instead of buying them from Ohio Precious Metals with their name on them. But when it comes to sales, you can't beat Provident's prices, at least if you are buying their new top of the line one ounce rounds.

    Of the mints listed above, I don't believe anyone will ever have a default from NWTM and hopefully not Golden State Mint. These operations have been around for decades and they have far more invested than simply their names. When you have a full blown minting operation on their scale, it's one hell of a lot of capital to lose playing games, especially with NWTM being the largest private mint in the nation.

    Of the above dealers, APMEX might very well have the most variety of inventory and they are very competitive when it comes time to sell almost anything you have. Not the best premiums, but they have some great sales and very often. I list Gainesville because so many have bought from them and they have very competitive premiums, especially at the volume levels. Provident Metals might be the most popular online dealer, especially for smaller orders, which is not to say they are not one of the best for high volume order as well. I think Provident's outstanding feature is their extremely competitive shipping and handling charges, which coupled with competitive premiums makes them a stand out from the others for small quantity purchases. The other quality I find best about Provident is their new one ounce round product line. Having dumped what others are selling at low premiums and replacing them with high quality rounds and at the same premium levels is what I call a commitment to the success of your business. Provident claims to be running their own mint now, which I haven't verified, but if that's true, it's another strong argument for longevity. I don't know how long any of the above three dealers has been in business, but if length of survivability had anything to do with this, Tulving would still be in business as he opened his doors over 20 years ago. The only one of the three that I've done any business with in recent years is Provident and it was three shipments and all three shipped the same day it was ordered. I also found Provident to be the best online dealer when it came time to sell some products that it was not in my best interest to sell to APMEX, which was around four years ago.

    The other two dealer are SilverTowne and Westminster. Both have a couple products that can be bought in very small quantities and still be competitive, but the quality is a hit and miss thing at best. SilverTowne is an actual mint and will be around for sometime to come, but with their high premiums, I don't think anyone should worry about losing a ton of money with them folding, as higher quantities can find far better deals elsewhere. Plus SilverTowne is into producing and selling so many things other than generic bullion. I bought a couple of great items from them last Christmas that were very nice. Westminster Mint will also probably be around for sometime to come as well. No they are not a mint themselves, but the store front for a major generic mint manufacture in the US. Not the best quality, but they do pump out a ton of product to dealers willing to sell it and I think it's great Provident is not longer one of them!!
    Last edited by valerb; 8th March 2014 at 02:09.
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  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Robert FGoens View Post
    http://www.ocregister.com/articles/t...pany-coin.html

    I will be driving over to Gainsville coins to do my stuff in person, screw the 12.00 in gas. I thought Tulving was one of the bigger, more trust worthy scources, if that WAS a top 5 trusted place to buy from, It would end my online buying. He needs to pay those buyers back, if it means taking the roof from over his head, and the shoes off his feet

    Holy sh!t I never knew Tulving was in Costa Mesa. But you bring up a good point about buying online, you never know what could happen.... A reputable business could suddenly go under without any sign of distress.

    BTW, the guy in the article that lives in Eldersburg, MD literally lives a half hour away from Golden Eagle Coin. I don't know about anybody else but I would feel way more comfortable driving a half hour than having shipped 20 gold maples.
    Last edited by broox419; 7th March 2014 at 21:43.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Holy sh!t I never knew Tulving was in Costa Mesa. But you bring up a good point about buying online, you never know what could happen.... A reputable business could suddenly go under without any sign of distress.

    BTW, the guy in the article that lives in Eldersburg, MD literally lives a half hour away from Golden Eagle Coin. I don't know about anybody else but I would feel way more comfortable driving a half hour than having shipped 20 gold maples.


    Or at a minimum, walk in a lay down $9,716 and ask for seven of those Maples to go please. Name, Billy Ray Smith. It doesn't hurt to have some of your stack that isn't recorded in one way or another, just in case.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

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