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Manoobulation - Page 2
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Thread: Manoobulation

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post
    I'll address a couple things. Anyone paying a 40% premium for an ASE has been bitten by the ASE love bug, which would be $9.60 each with the spot price at $24. That's simply throwing your money down the drain and the chances are, you'll never recoup that kind for premium payment.

    Why would anyone pay those kinds of prices, when they can buy an ASE at the single price range, with a premium of $7 at APMEX, $6.10 at Provident and only $4.55 at Gainesville? Just because some people don't know any better, does not make the premiums of 40% the true going rate. Maybe on an average between LCS's, but who buys there products at an LCS when they know they are the highest prices in town. Keep in mind that the premiums I mentioned above are for a single ASE, so if you can afford larger quantities, the premium come down from there. As I've said before, this is not the time to be waiting in line for a grossly overpriced ASE, when you can buy generic products for a fraction of those premiums. The premiums on ASE's will come down, but they are not going to give anyone a rebate on the excess they paid. It also doesn't make sense to wait for the ASE premium to come down as the spot price could be $10 higher. However it does make sense to buy generic products that have not skyrocketed in price in the mean time.

    There is nothing mysterious about the spot price being down and the US Mint and dealers scalping the public on premiums for ASE's. The public stands in line to buy the new ASE's every year, nothing new. However, with the spot price crashing and the normal demand exceeding the US Mints capacity to produce them, has only been exacerbated by the publics desire to take advantage of the lower spot price and buy even more. Which only creates an even greater opportunity for the dealer to scalp the public for even higher premiums. When you look at the premiums charged by APMEX at $7 and then only $4.55 at Gainesville, you have to realize it's nothing but pure greed for everyone who can cash in on it. While thousands have been waiting for the next release of ASE's, there has been ample supply of generic Silver to be had at far more reasonable prices.

    As far as the Gold and Germany is concern. There has been about ten different versions of that story and who knows if any of them are true except that Germany wants part of their Gold returned in seven years or so the story goes.

    Who says that they are not delivering Gold, other than some analyst that are always repeating these same lines of BS. If these stories were actually true, then COMEX would have folded years ago from default.

    I look at the COMEX delivery reports daily and there is no indication that deliveries are not being met for Gold. Not only have they been delivering Gold, but the deliveries scheduled for Tuesday April 30,2013 are for 562 contracts which equals 56,200 ounces of Gold and that will make a total of 1,163,200 ounce delivered for the Month of April. Where is any proof that Gold is not being delivered, other than in some analyst story line to convince people to run out and buy more Gold before it's too late??

    The COMEX warehouse inventories have been declining over the past four months by over 3 million ounces, that alone should tell concerning minds that Gold has been delivered. But they did manage to actually increase the Gold holdings at COMEX on Friday by 153,748 ounces and are now once again back over 8 million ounces in total. Which is a far cry from collapsing.

    Mike you've been around for a long time, how many times have you read this same information regarding COMEX not delivering Gold or Silver?

    I can't disagree with the comments about how COMEX handles those margin calls with no definite pattern for those increases. Especially when they did five in a one week period and the price collapsed from it's peak.

    However I don't agree with the concept that the margins should rise with the price and fall when it declines. It's a bit more complicated than that. That's only looking at the market from one side, but the market swings in two directions and as that pendulum swings it is taking someone down with it.

    I can understand why they implement these margin increases, but why do they always increase it for everyone at the same time, when only some investors are putting their broker at potential risk?

    They are suppose to be put in place to protect the brokers, as they are ultimately the ones that are on the hot seat for any contract defaults. However, what is the logic to add a margin increase to both sides of a contract when the price is swinging in one direction only. That is, if the price is rising, you might need to have the short contract holders margin increased to protect the broker, but it makes no sense to increase the margin of the long contract holder. Likewise, if the price is in decline, you might need to increase the margin for the long contract holder and it would make no sense to increase the margin for the offsetting short contract.

    I would agree that margin increases should be based on price movements and percentage basis "if" they are running against the contract holder and they should be returned if those movements turn the other way in favor of the investor. This should be a two way street for the Long and Short contract holders, but not both paying the same penalty because one side is in trouble. What's the logic of increasing a margin for someone that bought a contract at $24 and the spot has jumped to $44, none whatsoever, but the problems are many for the poor slob that bought the short offsetting contract at $24. With a huge swing in the market like this, the short contract holder should probably have seen two or maybe three margin increases at a minimum and none for the Long contract holder. But those margin increases should only have kicked in on an individual basis as the price swings became a greater percentage from the original contract price and not for all short contract holder equally. It should all depend on where you entered the market, not where someone else did. Likewise when the market takes a dive, a long contract holder shouldn't be hit with a margin increase if he is still in the black with his contract, just because many others are going deep into the red.

    I know, there is more to the story, like volatility. That's a lot of hog wash and someone that is holding a contract that is well in the black should not be bothered by any such nonsense. And that goes for all those short contract holders that were hit with a margin call because of the price declines in their favor.

    Margin calls are justifiable, but there should be set procedures for them that every investor knows when it's coming in relations to "his/her" contract and only if the market is going against them and those margins should be returned if the market swings back in the opposite direction. It's not as if this would be some major paper work nightmare for the brokers, as they have computers to access the customers accounts to shuffle the margin call money back and forth at virtually no cost to them. If a customer doesn't have enough funds to meet the margin call, then let the broker charge a small fee for having to manually deal with that customer.

    Use margin calls to protect the brokers at a constant and fair rate, but don't use them to control the market at will and no one can tell me that hasn't happened. Just remember April 2011!!! It wasn't just the long contract holders that suffered all those rapid fire margin calls, everyone did as a result except the short contract holders or at least the short contract holders that could meet the margin calls.
    Thanks Val. Very insightful indeed! But you don't deny that there is significant physical demand for coins and small bars. Even $5 for an ASE is a big premium compared with the norm. But this may be a temporary shortage, just like grocery shelves are bare before a hurricane. That does not mean there is a national food shortage. But the overall trend is pretty clear. More and more investors are becoming aware of the difference between paper and physical metal and are demonstrating a preference for physical. That will eventually have an impact.
    We don't know if Western central banks have leased much gold. We are in the dark on that. But the whole point of a Ponzi scheme is to preserve normalcy as long as possible even though the underlying situation is dire. We don't know if this is the case with the precious metals. Frankly I don't care. I do know the West's monetary base is out of control. No argument there. As long as money is being printed in these quantities I am happy to continue to own the metals on a 10 year view. The 10 year US T Bond gives you a return of 18%, interest re-invested, pretax, in 2023. I will take silver and gold over that any day of the week. And a ten year bond is ten year money. That is my comparison. Gold is a store of value, in effect sound money, not an "investment". For an investment you want to own equities and real estate IMHO not metal.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    Thanks Val. Very insightful indeed! But you don't deny that there is significant physical demand for coins and small bars. Even $5 for an ASE is a big premium compared with the norm. But this may be a temporary shortage, just like grocery shelves are bare before a hurricane. That does not mean there is a national food shortage. But the overall trend is pretty clear. More and more investors are becoming aware of the difference between paper and physical metal and are demonstrating a preference for physical. That will eventually have an impact.
    We don't know if Western central banks have leased much gold. We are in the dark on that. But the whole point of a Ponzi scheme is to preserve normalcy as long as possible even though the underlying situation is dire. We don't know if this is the case with the precious metals. Frankly I don't care. I do know the West's monetary base is out of control. No argument there. As long as money is being printed in these quantities I am happy to continue to own the metals on a 10 year view. The 10 year US T Bond gives you a return of 18%, interest re-invested, pretax, in 2023. I will take silver and gold over that any day of the week. And a ten year bond is ten year money. That is my comparison. Gold is a store of value, in effect sound money, not an "investment". For an investment you want to own equities and real estate IMHO not metal.

    If you mean US coins when you say coins, I don't think that is the case. There are just so many out there and that's it. More and more of the buy and hold investors have gotten a hold of them and the supply has diminished to almost nothing.

    Which doesn't mean there isn't a ton of them in existence, just that those hanging on to them are not the kind of people likely to keep churning them as in the past.

    If you are referring to coins as in .999 rounds, then that is a different matter. With no US coins to buy at reasonable prices and ASE's in short supply, coupled with a nasty down turn in the price of Silver, One ounce rounds and Silver bars are the only thing left, which are the primary generic Silver products anyway. However I can't agree that there is actually some kind of mind set that has caused investors or those wishing to exchange their currency into PM to switch from doing so in the paper world versus physical metals. That is if your including SLV and physical inventory at COMEX as paper Silver as so many do on this forum. For instance SLV inventory has increased by 12 million ounces this year and the Eligible inventory at COMEX is up 23 million ounces. That's 35 million ounces taken off the wholesale market and those holding paper to that physical are not looking at it as if it was some paper ponzi scheme as in a Silver pool account. No matter what our members believe, that's close to a billion Dollars worth of Silver that those people have invested in and it's a lot more than the retail market we live in can sell in any four month period of time.

    As far as the physical Silver market that all of us are involved with, that is a different matter. The so called current shortage that is driving the premiums higher is nothing more than a deep dip in the spot price and investors (my words) seeking to take advantage of the low prices. With no US coins to buy and no ASE's and very few Maples, it has put a squeeze on the generic Silver product. Not that there is an actual shortage, but a shortage at the dealers and not the mints. Plus this shortage is really a recent event with the severe decline in the spot price. I'm looking at numbers from March 12,2013. The spot price was $28.99 and there were ASE's for sale at APMEX with a premium of $4.49 for a single ASE down to $2.99 for a monster box full from the same dealer. APMEX was also selling generic Sliver products of their choice for $1.19 per ounce for quantities of 200 ounces or more. Looking at APMEX top 40 Silver product list for that day, the only item out of stock was the Canadian Silver Dollar.

    Looking at Tulvings inventory for the same date, he was charging $2.59 premium for ASE by the Monster box and $1.99 for Maples by the Monster box. NTR 100 ounce bars were selling for 49 cents premium, Misc one ounce rounds selling for 59 cents, he was also selling a 1/2 ounce, 1 ounce round, 10 ounce bar and a 100 ounce bar, all for 79 cent premium. His most expensive generic product was a 1 ounce round from Golden State Mint and a RCM 100 ounce bar at 89 cents premium. His most expensive Silver product was the 1 ounce ASE from the San Francisco Mint at $2.79 premium.

    Those numbers were just six weeks ago when there was plenty of inventory, including ASE and Maples and everything was still at reasonable premiums. Although I don't consider any Silver product with a premium at $2 an ounce or more as being reasonable. But then I was raised on 5 cent bottles of Coke and 12 cent packs of cigarettes and 45 cent an ounce premiums for brand new one ounce rounds. But if you could still buy brand new one ounce rounds for under a Dollar six weeks ago then these premiums are nothing but a huge fleecing by the dealers. But not all are to be lumped in the same boat, some mints and I suppose dealers are still offering pricing for their products that is comparable to six weeks ago or extremely close.

    I find it amazing that APMEX dropped their premium on a Monster box of ASE by 50 cents per round the day they started delivering them, but everyone that pre-ordered them had to pay an extra 50 cents for the privilege.

    As far as the monetary system, I'm staying as far away from it as I can safely get without actually being out of it. That is, I only keep enough money in checking accounts to satisfy the banks for my free safe deposit boxes and one account to pay bills. The rest goes into safe deposit boxes with no interest payments and I wouldn't go near the stock market or have anything to do with a Government note of any kind.

    I've kept my currency, FRN's and Swiss francs out of the banking systems hands for several years now for just the reasons people are concerned with. The banks failing, and more than likely a limit to daily limits, government grab of retirement accounts and possibly personal accounts, which is starting to look more like a real possibility now. We've paid a small fortune to cash in an IRA account in the past and a 403B account last year, when we could have waited and taken much lower tax rates when my wife retires, but who knows if it will still be there to take. We are in a position to lose some money now and not have it impact our life style, but not really wanting to lose it all in the long run, by waiting and gambling that it will still be there when we want it.

    I can see the government doing a tax on savings accounts, but I really see them going after the 401K, 403B accounts first. It's one that they can get away without an immediate impact on anyone, a true ponzi scheme. Take it all and pay back to those going into retirement, just as they have done with the S.S. system. Decades of theft have taught them well how to steal the peoples money and do it without being hung in the process. At least not yet!!

    So I seriously doubt they would go after our savings account, let alone checking accounts, which would bring down a ton of heat. For that reasoning, I have no fear of them trying to raid or tax anyone's safe deposit boxes. Also the contents of those boxes does not belong to the banks or the government and has not been deposited with the banks. The banks only involvement is to rent out those boxes for their customers safe keeping. Now if it became clear that our government was doing some rather unsavory things that involved taking away our rights to own guns and other things like that, I'd be inclined to find an alternate place to house our life savings, but doing it in my basement would more than likely be the last place I'd try and do it.

    The problem I have with all the allegations that the analyst keep making is, that it's all regarding private information that no one can verify. And since almost nothing they predict has ever taken place, they have lost all credibility in my eyes, but then I've been reading their material for almost two decades.

    For instance, they have been reporting for many years that the COMEX warehouses are really empty and they are about ready to default, yet it's those same empty warehouses that keep selling Silver to the mints that produce the bulk of the retail Silver that the dealers they work for keep right on selling to us. How ironic it that?
    Last edited by valerb; 25th June 2013 at 00:04.
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  3. #13
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    Default Great response

    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post

    If you mean US coins when you say coins, I don't think that is the case. There are just so many out there and that's it. More and more of the buy and hold investors have gotten a hold of them and the supply has diminished to almost nothing.

    Which doesn't mean there isn't a ton of them in existence, just that those hanging on to them are not the kind of people likely to keep churning them as in the past.

    If you are referring to coins as in .999 rounds, then that is a different matter. With no US coins to buy at reasonable prices and ASE's in short supply, coupled with a nasty down turn in the price of Silver, One ounce rounds and Silver bars are the only thing left, which are the primary generic Silver products anyway. However I can't agree that there is actually some kind of mind set that has caused investors or those wishing to exchange their currency into PM to switch from doing so in the paper world versus physical metals. That is if your including SLV and physical inventory at COMEX as paper Silver as so many do on this forum. For instance SLV inventory has increased by 12 million ounces this year and the Eligible inventory at COMEX is up 23 million ounces. That's 35 million ounces taken off the wholesale market and those holding paper to that physical are not looking at it as if it was some paper ponzi scheme as in a Silver pool account. No matter what our members believe, that's close to a billion Dollars worth of Silver that those people have invested in and it's a lot more than the retail market we live in can sell in any four month period of time.

    As far as the physical Silver market that all of us are involved with, that is a different matter. The so called current shortage that is driving the premiums higher is nothing more than a deep dip in the spot price and investors (my words) seeking to take advantage of the low prices. With no US coins to buy and no ASE's and very few Maples, it has put a squeeze on the generic Silver product. Not that there is an actual shortage, but a shortage at the dealers and not the mints. Plus this shortage is really a recent event with the severe decline in the spot price. I'm looking at numbers from March 12,2013. The spot price was $28.99 and there were ASE's for sale at APMEX with a premium of $4.49 for a single ASE down to $2.99 for a mother box full from the same dealer. APMEX was also selling generic Sliver products of their choice for $1.19 per ounce for quantities of 200 ounces or more. Looking at APMEX top 40 Silver product list for that day, the only item out of stock was the Canadian Silver Dollar.

    Looking at Tulvings inventory for the same date, he was charging $2.59 premium for ASE by the Mother box and $1.99 for Maples by the Mother box. NTR 100 ounce bars were selling for 49 cents premium, Misc one ounce rounds selling for 59 cents, he was also selling a 1/2 ounce, 1 ounce round, 10 ounce bar and a 100 ounce bar, all for 79 cent premium. His most expensive generic product was a 1 ounce round from Golden State Mint and a RCM 100 ounce bar at 89 cents premium. His most expensive Silver product was the 1 ounce ASE from the San Francisco Mint at $2.79 premium.

    Those numbers were just six weeks ago when there was plenty of inventory, including ASE and Maples and everything was still at reasonable premiums. Although I don't consider any Silver product with a premium at $2 an ounce or more as being reasonable. But then I was raised on 5 cent bottles of Coke and 12 cent packs of cigarettes and 45 cent an ounce premiums for brand new one ounce rounds. But if you could still buy brand new one ounce rounds for under a Dollar six weeks ago then these premiums are nothing but a huge fleecing by the dealers. But not all are to be lumped in the same boat, some mints and I suppose dealers are still offering pricing for their products that is comparable to six weeks ago or extremely close.

    I find it amazing that APMEX dropped their premium on a Mother box of ASE by 50 cents per round the day they started delivering them, but everyone that pre-ordered them had to pay an extra 50 cents for the privilege.

    As far as the monetary system, I'm staying as far away from it as I can safely get without actually being out of it. That is, I only keep enough money in checking accounts to satisfy the banks for my free safe deposit boxes and one account to pay bills. The rest goes into safe deposit boxes with no interest payments and I wouldn't go near the stock market or have anything to do with a Government note of any kind.

    I've kept my currency, FRN's and Swiss francs out of the banking systems hands for several years now for just the reasons people are concerned with. The banks failing, and more than likely a limit to daily limits, government grab of retirement accounts and possibly personal accounts, which is starting to look more like a real possibility now. We've paid a small fortune to cash in an IRA account in the past and a 403B account last year, when we could have waited and taken much lower tax rates when my wife retires, but who knows if it will still be there to take. We are in a position to lose some money now and not have it impact our life style, but not really wanting to lose it all in the long run, by waiting and gambling that it will still be there when we want it.

    I can see the government doing a tax on savings accounts, but I really see them going after the 401K, 403B accounts first. It's one that they can get away without an immediate impact on anyone, a true ponzi scheme. Take it all and pay back to those going into retirement, just as they have done with the S.S. system. Decades of theft have taught them well how to steal the peoples money and do it without being hung in the process. At least not yet!!

    So I seriously doubt they would go after our savings account, let alone checking accounts, which would bring down a ton of heat. For that reasoning, I have no fear of them trying to raid or tax anyone's safe deposit boxes. Also the contents of those boxes does not belong to the banks or the government and has not been deposited with the banks. The banks only involvement is to rent out those boxes for their customers safe keeping. Now if it became clear that our government was doing some rather unsavory things that involved taking away our rights to own guns and other things like that, I'd be inclined to find an alternate place to house our life savings, but doing it in my basement would more than likely be the last place I'd try and do it.

    The problem I have with all the allegations that the analyst keep making is, that it's all regarding private information that no one can verify. And since almost nothing they predict has ever taken place, they have lost all credibility in my eyes, but then I've been reading their material for almost two decades.

    For instance, they have been reporting for many years that the COMEX warehouses are really empty and they are about ready to default, yet it's those same empty warehouses that keep selling Silver to the mints that produce the bulk of the retail Silver that the dealers they work for keep right on selling to us. How ironic it that?
    This is really excellent! Only one one thing to add. I believe (not certain) than when FDR confiscated gold, he required that all banks have a federal official present when bank safe deposit boxes were opened to ensure no gold was present. I still think the best bet is to have your silver made into hand guns. No danger of confiscation there! Just call Wayne Lapierre!

  4. #14
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    Question Is the U.S. federal government TBTF?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    This is really excellent! Only one one thing to add. I believe (not certain) than when FDR confiscated gold, he required that all banks have a federal official present when bank safe deposit boxes were opened to ensure no gold was present. I still think the best bet is to have your silver made into hand guns. No danger of confiscation there! Just call Wayne Lapierre!
    Good advice.

    Oh, there's some more to add!

    A lot more.

    Quote Originally Posted by AgShaman View Post
    It's comical that a CBOT trader would start a "Manoobulation" thread.

    The silver market has been manipulated since the CBOT brought it onboard in 1969. The CBOT is the original manipulators. They were the ones that "cried wolf" to the CFTC when the Hunt Bros were cornering the market in silver and controlled over half the market. When the CFTC decided there was no definitive emergency, the CBOT did an end around and changed the exchange rules. Just have a look into it and you will find the manipulation resides within the CBOT and the CME Group. They have a private exchange...and they set and change the rules when players muscle in on their turf and embarass them. A number of their floor traders over the years have been prosecuted for defrauding clients by trading their own books ahead of servicing customer orders (frontrunning with inside info).

    This thread is nothing but hypocritical BS and an exercise in self aggrandizement on the part of the person that started it.

    Like paper fiats....these cesspools called exchanges have a shelf life....and they will try to lock as many fools inside the casino before they burn it down, while protecting the "preferred players" from litigation.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mavB1...layer_embedded
    I looks like shellster actually started two of them.

    That last quoted link of AgShaman's is to the video clip "Too Big to Fail has become Too Big for Trial" on the pertinent topic of supervising the big "banks" when they break the law.

    Just because the criminals are getting away with it, that doesn't mean that the "allegations" aren't about actual criminal bankster activity.

    We need to manoobullate more than a few of the top dog financiers into the kennnel.
    "I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone
    "The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K

  5. #15
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    Default The big dogs

    Quote Originally Posted by silverheartbone View Post
    Good advice.

    Oh, there's some more to add!

    A lot more.


    I looks like shellster actually started two of them.

    That last quoted link of AgShaman's is to the video clip "Too Big to Fail has become Too Big for Trial" on the pertinent topic of supervising the big "banks" when they break the law.

    Just because the criminals are getting away with it, that doesn't mean that the "allegations" aren't about actual criminal bankster activity.

    We need to manoobullate more than a few of the top dog financiers into the kennnel.
    RIght! Plus we should all remember that by definition, a Ponzi scheme is one where the perpetrators try to make everything look normal as long as possible. So you wouldn't expect there to be many clues that metal stocks are depleted etc. But as I said, the manipulation hypothesis is plausible; but "not proven" at best. But it doesn't matter. The growing awareness that you have to track your metal and that physical is better, is like the growing awareness that you need to track your bank deposits. And there is no doubt that many intermediaries which purport to hold allocated physical metal for their clients, do not. Or at least they operate on a fractional reserve basis. Silver is increasingly used in electronic, industrial and medical technologies. The Global middle class is burgeoning. China has taken 680 million people out of poverty in the last ten years. So, manipulation or not, the fundamentals of silver look good. Actually we don't really want some big scandal to break. That gives the exchanges and regulators the opportunity to change the rules. Just leave us in peace! The price will go up on a medium term view just on the fundamentals.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    This is really excellent! Only one one thing to add. I believe (not certain) than when FDR confiscated gold, he required that all banks have a federal official present when bank safe deposit boxes were opened to ensure no gold was present. I still think the best bet is to have your silver made into hand guns. No danger of confiscation there! Just call Wayne Lapierre!

    The following is taken from Wikipedia at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_6102 and it addresses these false claims about safe deposit boxes being inspected by the government back then.

    The entire article addresses all aspects of the confiscation order and subsequent orders to fix problems from earlier orders. Arrests and conviction, names and amounts.



    The myth of a safe deposit box seizures order

    According to a folk rumor on the internet, President Roosevelt ordered all the safe deposit boxes in the country seized and searched for gold by an I.R.S. official. A typical example reads:


    By Executive Order Of The President of The United States, March 9, 1933.
    By virtue of the authority vested in me by Section 5 (b) of the Act of October 6, 1917, as amended by Section 2 of the Act of March 9, 1933, in which Congress declared that a serious emergency exists, I as President, do declare that the national emergency still exists; that the continued private hoarding of gold and silver by subjects of the United States poses a grave threat to the peace, equal justice, and well-being of the United States; and that appropriate measures must be taken immediately to protect the interests of our people.

    Therefore, pursuant to the above authority, I hereby proclaim that such gold and silver holdings are prohibited, and that all such coin, bullion or other possessions of gold and silver be tendered within fourteen days to agents of the Government of the United States for compensation at the official price, in the legal tender of the Government.

    All safe deposit boxes in banks or financial institutions have been sealed, pending action in the due course of the law. All sales or purchases or movements of such gold and silver within the borders of the United States and its territories and all foreign exchange transactions or movements of such metals across the border are hereby prohibited.

    Your possession of these proscribed metals and/or your maintenance of a safe deposit box to store them is known by the government from bank and insurance records. Therefore, be advised that your vault box must remain sealed, and may only be opened in the presence of an agent of the Internal Revenue Service.

    By lawful order given this day, the President of the United States.
    Franklin Roosevelt—March 9, 1933

    Most of this text does not appear in the actual Executive Order.[24] In fact, safe deposit boxes held by individuals were not forcibly searched or seized under the order and the few prosecutions that occurred in the 1930s for gold hoarding were executed under different statutes. One of the few such cases occurred in 1936, when a safe deposit box containing over 10,000 troy ounces (310 kg) of gold belonging to Zelik Josefowitz, who was not a U.S. citizen, was seized with a search warrant as part of a tax evasion prosecution.[25]

    The U.S. Treasury came into possession of a large number of safe deposit boxes due to bank failures. During the 1930s, over 3,000 banks failed and the contents of their safe deposit boxes were remanded to the custody of the Treasury. If no one claimed the box, it remained in the possession of the Treasury. As of October 1981, there were 1,605 cardboard cartons in the basement of the Treasury, each carton containing the contents of one unclaimed safe deposit box.[26]


    Think about those numbers that people keep repeating, 1,605 cardboard cartons that were never claimed. Big deal. Out of over 3,000 banks that failed, less than 1/2 safe deposit box went unclaimed per bank on average. No relatives in the area, no relatives listed on the account, someone using a false name to hide something and died, someone moved away and forgot they even had a box, some old fart like myself. That's not many boxes that went unclaimed from over 3,000 banks.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  7. #17
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    Default You can't hurry love, no you just have to wait, she said love don't come easy, it's a

    1) The claim was that an official of the bank was required to supervise the SDB opening to monitor for precious metals to seize for the banksters.
    2) Correct those words did not appear in the EO. As stated in the EO, those details followed.


    The Deval is in the details.

    Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order...

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mike Phillips View Post
    RIght! Plus we should all remember that by definition, a Ponzi scheme is one where the perpetrators try to make everything look normal as long as possible. So you wouldn't expect there to be many clues that metal stocks are depleted etc. But as I said, the manipulation hypothesis is plausible; but "not proven" at best. But it doesn't matter. The growing awareness that you have to track your metal and that physical is better, is like the growing awareness that you need to track your bank deposits. And there is no doubt that many intermediaries which purport to hold allocated physical metal for their clients, do not. Or at least they operate on a fractional reserve basis. Silver is increasingly used in electronic, industrial and medical technologies. The Global middle class is burgeoning. China has taken 680 million people out of poverty in the last ten years. So, manipulation or not, the fundamentals of silver look good. Actually we don't really want some big scandal to break. That gives the exchanges and regulators the opportunity to change the rules. Just leave us in peace! The price will go up on a medium term view just on the fundamentals.

    I have to agree about the scandal. Let the COMEX collapse as so many seem to desire and we'll see the Silver market come to a halt for retail Silver. You want to see a Silver confiscation, let the wholesale Silver run dry and see what happens to us.

    The last thing I want do is try and hide all my Silver from the Feds and then try and sell it on the black market. There is far too much paper work leading to my front door. I'd rather sell it back to the government for a set rate than take a chance on having all of it confiscated and not getting a dime, plus not getting a get out of jail free card either. Just let the cash settlement be over $8 an ounce so I can at least make a profit after all these years. I'm not sure what I would be doing with all those $8 bills, but I know it won't be going into one ounce copper rounds.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by silverheartbone View Post
    1) The claim was that an official of the bank was required to supervise the SDB opening to monitor for precious metals to seize for the banksters.
    2) Correct those words did not appear in the EO. As stated in the EO, those details followed.


    The Deval is in the details.

    Section 8. The Secretary of the Treasury is hereby authorized and empowered to issue such further regulations as he may deem necessary to carry out the purposes of this order...

    There was no searching of anyones safe deposit boxes and no one examined anyone boxes when they went into them. I don't know what you are trying to insinuate with this statement, but it never happened, period. It didn't make any sense to do it back then and it wouldn't make any sense to do it today.

    Your just on another one of your government is all evil everyday kicks and there is nothing they will ever do that is not pure evil. It's been 80 years and your still trying to put words in their mouth and actions in their blame column for things they never did, but possibly could have. Go back to Baghdad and preach this anti US crap where you will be worshiped for uncovering the evil deeds they could have committed if they wanted to. You'll have a huge audience back home.

    Get a life, better yet get a job so you can have a life!
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post

    There was no searching of anyones safe deposit boxes and no one examined anyone boxes when they went into them. I don't know what you are trying to insinuate with this statement, but it never happened, period. It didn't make any sense to do it back then and it wouldn't make any sense to do it today.

    Your just on another one of your government is all evil everyday kicks and there is nothing they will ever do that is not pure evil. It's been 80 years and your still trying to put words in their mouth and actions in their blame column for things they never did, but possibly could have. Go back to Baghdad and preach this anti US crap where you will be worshiped for uncovering the evil deeds they could have committed if they wanted to. You'll have a huge audience back home.

    Get a life, better yet get a job so you can have a life!
    Are you sure?
    "I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone
    "The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K

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