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Reverse Raid on the Crimex - Silver Targets $37 OZ - Greg Maurer - Page 4
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Thread: Reverse Raid on the Crimex - Silver Targets $37 OZ - Greg Maurer

  1. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Bullsh!t, that's the conspiracy theory is that they delivery. It's widely reported that both SLV and GLD do not deliver their respective metals. If you have documentation to prove otherwise then post it. Better yet of anyone who has successfully obtained the metal from their 'contract' from either either JPM or HSBC or whoever manages SLV and GLD. Until then it's just another paper ponzi scheme intended to take them unsuspecting sheeple to the shears.

    And what is your source that proves they refuse to deliver a basket of Silver or Gold for that matter? It wouldn't be a Silver analyst by any chance would it. Your right, I can't prove it one way or the other, as I'm not into that kind of money and if I was, I wouldn't have it tied up in SLV shares, but in physical Silver and Gold.

    Their prospectus states you can take possession of a basket of Silver from SLV if you own 50,000 shares, so who are you to say you can't. Did you get your information from the same people that swear up and down that no one is getting deliveries from the COMEX every month, so hurry up and buy all the Silver you can afford while it's still available. If you had been around ten years ago or even longer, you would have heard the same rumors, yet they are still in business and delivering Silver to the very mints that sell the products to the dealers that have been selling to you since you have been buying. So if COMEX is really delivering the Silver that those people swear they are not, then why not SLV?

    It's your conspiracy theory, not mine, why do I have to prove your wrong and why is the SLV conspiracy right when those same people are wrong about the COMEX conspiracy?

    Believe whatever you want to believe, but keep in mind that it's their job to convince you to buy Silver and Gold at all times and they have a thousand stories as to why you should always buy "now" and never wait or sell.

    You should also keep in mind that the banks and COMEX can't defend themselves in the conspiracies, as that would violate their customer confidential agreements and they do not share with the public what quantities they have in their warehouses that is not part of the public records or what is in the wholesale warehouses for sale. It's that guessing game that keeps the market going up and down. Just like most of the large retail dealers do not divulge how many ASE's they have in stock. It's that guessing game that allows them to play their games in the market with premiums as well.

    Just out of curiosity, do those same people that run with this conspiracy theory on SLV have any explanation as to what happens to the millions of ounces of Silver that leaves SLV? SLV only buys and sells Silver, but will never allow any share holder to take deliver, even though the prospectus allows them to. What I'd like to see is the law suits pending against SLV for not allowing the withdrawals. That is something all those people should have copies of. I don't know how many people are going to openly share with the public that they just withdrew x number of 50,000 ounce lots of Silver.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post
    And what is your source that proves they refuse to deliver a basket of Silver or Gold for that matter? It wouldn't be a Silver analyst by any chance would it. Your right, I can't prove it one way or the other, as I'm not into that kind of money and if I was, I wouldn't have it tied up in SLV shares, but in physical Silver and Gold.

    Their prospectus states you can take possession of a basket of Silver from SLV if you own 50,000 shares, so who are you to say you can't. Did you get your information from the same people that swear up and down that no one is getting deliveries from the COMEX every month, so hurry up and buy all the Silver you can afford while it's still available. If you had been around ten years ago or even longer, you would have heard the same rumors, yet they are still in business and delivering Silver to the very mints that sell the products to the dealers that have been selling to you since you have been buying. So if COMEX is really delivering the Silver that those people swear they are not, then why not SLV?

    It's your conspiracy theory, not mine, why do I have to prove your wrong and why is the SLV conspiracy right when those same people are wrong about the COMEX conspiracy?

    Believe whatever you want to believe, but keep in mind that it's their job to convince you to buy Silver and Gold at all times and they have a thousand stories as to why you should always buy "now" and never wait or sell.

    You should also keep in mind that the banks and COMEX can't defend themselves in the conspiracies, as that would violate their customer confidential agreements and they do not share with the public what quantities they have in their warehouses that is not part of the public records or what is in the wholesale warehouses for sale. It's that guessing game that keeps the market going up and down. Just like most of the large retail dealers do not divulge how many ASE's they have in stock. It's that guessing game that allows them to play their games in the market with premiums as well.

    Just out of curiosity, do those same people that run with this conspiracy theory on SLV have any explanation as to what happens to the millions of ounces of Silver that leaves SLV? SLV only buys and sells Silver, but will never allow any share holder to take deliver, even though the prospectus allows them to. What I'd like to see is the law suits pending against SLV for not allowing the withdrawals. That is something all those people should have copies of. I don't know how many people are going to openly share with the public that they just withdrew x number of 50,000 ounce lots of Silver.
    Zerohedge, CNBC and Fox News all reported this in April 2011 at the same time COMEX raised margin requirements 8 times within a month which to the best of my knowledge is unprecedented. As far as lawsuits go, there are several filed by GATA and the CFTC and they all get dismissed because they lack "evidence". You see if the is no physical metal, then there is no "evidence". There has to be something of value that the banks are "manipulating" and since the banks don't have to audit their PM holdings, there is no proof they even existed to begin with. It's a ponzi scheme. It's not just SLV, any paper lease on a commodity or real estate is equally manipulative and of rigged value.

    Silver, gold, platinum, palladium, rhodium, copper, tin, zinc, and nickel don't spoil. So I must ask why the need for the futures market? I ask because right now there are many mining companies that are getting outrighted f#cked by the paper price set by the futures market. The futures market was intended to protect farmers from unforeseen events and now it's being used to screw the producers of alternate currencies. It's not like this is the first time bankers take advantage of the rules so they can profit. For f#ck's sake look what Goldman Sachs conjured up years ago. You can't honestly believe they would leave the metals markets untouched because PM's have no value? The global banking cabal will do anything to force gold and for that matter silver out of weak hands. If Cyprus was a woman, the banksters left her a$$ in the air and made here thank them not using lube. And now they want to pawn her gold to make her pay. The funny thing is there are even more f#cktards in this country that when faced with it will think it's a good idea to listen to the banksters.

    If my memory serves me correct, China tried to take delivery and were denied. Anyhow here is a copy of the prospectus. Please tell me what page it says that delivery of 50,000 ounces is possible. It says that increments of 50,000 Shares are deliverable and that the amount of metal is completely arbitrary to market conditions. It also states that they are entirely dependent upon COMEX for the price of their shares. Simply put, if COMEX fails SLV fails with it!

  3. #33
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    Just take a look at page 19 and you'll see they have to answer to no one! They are not regulated much like LIBOR was never regulated. If your buyin' SLV to obtain the metal, your better off putting your money in the crack of your a$$ and bending over for Blythe Masters and Jaime Dimon. Ask them both nicely if they can put your money in a safe place and if one of them don't put their foot up your a$$, it means your better off with SLV!

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Zerohedge, CNBC and Fox News all reported this in April 2011 at the same time COMEX raised margin requirements 8 times within a month which to the best of my knowledge is unprecedented. As far as lawsuits go, there are several filed by GATA and the CFTC and they all get dismissed because they lack "evidence". You see if the is no physical metal, then there is no "evidence". There has to be something of value that the banks are "manipulating" and since the banks don't have to audit their PM holdings, there is no proof they even existed to begin with. It's a ponzi scheme. It's not just SLV, any paper lease on a commodity or real estate is equally manipulative and of rigged value.

    Silver, gold, platinum, palladium, rhodium, copper, tin, zinc, and nickel don't spoil. So I must ask why the need for the futures market? I ask because right now there are many mining companies that are getting outrighted f#cked by the paper price set by the futures market. The futures market was intended to protect farmers from unforeseen events and now it's being used to screw the producers of alternate currencies. It's not like this is the first time bankers take advantage of the rules so they can profit. For f#ck's sake look what Goldman Sachs conjured up years ago. You can't honestly believe they would leave the metals markets untouched because PM's have no value? The global banking cabal will do anything to force gold and for that matter silver out of weak hands. If Cyprus was a woman, the banksters left her a$$ in the air and made here thank them not using lube. And now they want to pawn her gold to make her pay. The funny thing is there are even more f#cktards in this country that when faced with it will think it's a good idea to listen to the banksters.

    If my memory serves me correct, China tried to take delivery and were denied. Anyhow here is a copy of the prospectus. Please tell me what page it says that delivery of 50,000 ounces is possible. It says that increments of 50,000 Shares are deliverable and that the amount of metal is completely arbitrary to market conditions. It also states that they are entirely dependent upon COMEX for the price of their shares. Simply put, if COMEX fails SLV fails with it!


    Well you answered your own question, you just didn't realize it. Yes that 50,000 shares is their equivalent of 50,000 ounces and the arbitrary market conditions they are speaking of is the "price of Silver" not the availability of the Silver. They are pointing out that their share price mirrors the price of Silver on the COMEX and it will run at approximately 96.5% of the COMEX price. That's because of the management fees taken since it's inception on April 21, 2006. In other words each share has been slowly diluted by 3.5% over the past seven years. Here is the page for SLV that shows all of their details regarding ounces, shares, net asset value (96.581%) http://us.ishares.com/product_info/f...erview/SLV.htm

    As with all commodity investments, they are simply pointing out, that your investments will be controlled by the paper market at COMEX like everyone else in the commodities market in the US. They are not special and they will live and die by the same sword that slays all the rest of us at that paper casino. It has nothing to do with their ability to deliver a basket of Silver.

    Your posting information regarding law suits that were allegations of manipulation involving margin calls and that has nothing to do with failing to deliver anyone's Silver or Gold in 2011. That has been my argument all along with COMEX and their ability to screw with the market at will with margin calls. I put a lot into those thoughts myself and I couldn't agree more, but that still doesn't have anything to do with PM being available for delivery. It does smack of favoritism on the part of the short contract holders back then and it did kill a wild and woolly market that we were all loving dearly. But to assume it was done to protect the market from collapsing from a lack of PM is a lot different than to protect the investors from taking a major financial killing. No one really had to take delivery of PM to keep the market flying higher, just new buyers coming into the market and be willing to pay whatever is being asked for an existing contract. All they had to do was keep bidding the same contracts up higher and higher and that's when COMEX stepped in and killed the drive by forcing players out of the market with five margin calls in a weeks time. It just created a cascading effect and even those that didn't have a problem meeting the margin calls had to jump ship because of the losses that were piling up on their contracts with falling prices.

    As Matt points out, margin calls are justifiable, but they should have implemented several along the way as the price kept climbing higher instead of pulling the plunger and letting it all dump out at one time. That smacks of a planned killing of the market and in favor of the short contract holders and we know who most of them are.

    Last edited by valerb; 30th April 2013 at 01:51.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Just take a look at page 19 and you'll see they have to answer to no one! They are not regulated much like LIBOR was never regulated. If your buyin' SLV to obtain the metal, your better off putting your money in the crack of your a$$ and bending over for Blythe Masters and Jaime Dimon. Ask them both nicely if they can put your money in a safe place and if one of them don't put their foot up your a$$, it means your better off with SLV!

    Go back and read page 19 again. They fall under the CFTC control, but they are "not a regulated commodities pool" like COMEX and the rules that govern COMEX do not apply to SLV. They are two different types of investments.

    Investing in SLV is like investing in a regular stock, it is not a commodities market with futures contracts. They are two different animals, but you can use them for some of the same purposes, as in buying shares of physical Silver, except you do not have it assigned to your name with SLV and you can take delivery of physical Silver from both. It just requires 50,000 ounces to take delivery at SLV, which is no small feat for those of us that do not walk on water.

    I don't know if it's in the prospectus or one of the other two documents they have, but somewhere they talk about the basket size and there not wanting to be in the retail Silver bullion market business, that's why the basket size is so high. It's designed to offer a way for people to invest in physical Silver without having to take physical possession and it allows many types of investments to enter into the bullion market that were not allowed to invest in the commodities market, as in COMEX. It also allows anyone to buy any number of shares they would like, without having to purchase a 5,000 ounce contract and pay to have it stored in their vaults. Plus the added bonus for those willing to enter into that market is the extremely low premium per ounce, which is almost nothing if you can afford to buy at least 100 shares. Even ten shares will cost less than $1 a share premium. 100 shares cost less than a dime per share and for those who buy a thousand shares, well... It is also a great way for those wanting to play the market with buying and selling their shares. Not something we can do with the same kind of low overhead. It's also a great day traders market for those with the balls. Yes I have a few shares in SLV, but if I really had the balls to invest in it, I wouldn't have swapped all those 100 ounce bars for small silver products, I would have put it in SLV for basically no premium at all. But I don't have the balls for that kind of Silver holding, at least not a major portion of my stash. I am willing to put my Silver in safe deposit boxes, but that's as close to allowing someone else to come near my stack.
    I'm a proud member of Eggshellman's Liar, Shill, and bully club and a new member of the Super Jew Defense League!!!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post

    Investing in SLV is like investing in a regular stock, it is not a commodities market with futures contracts. They are two different animals, but you can use them for some of the same purposes, as in buying shares of physical Silver, except you do not have it assigned to your name with SLV and you can take delivery of physical Silver from both. It just requires 50,000 ounces to take delivery at SLV, which is no small feat for those of us that do not walk on water.
    The point is there is no oversight, no audits, nothing to keep them in check.

    Quote the page where it says anything about 50,000 ounces. I don't know what a basket size is and would not put myself in the position to find out. This ETF is useless, if you want leveraged ETF's try DSLV (3x inverse) and USLV (3x long). You'll make a killing but be aware any sudden swings the opposite direction and you'll lose your a$$!

  7. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Bullsh!t, that's the conspiracy theory is that they delivery. It's widely reported that both SLV and GLD do not deliver their respective metals. If you have documentation to prove otherwise then post it. Better yet of anyone who has successfully obtained the metal from their 'contract' from either either JPM or HSBC or whoever manages SLV and GLD. Until then it's just another paper ponzi scheme intended to take them unsuspecting sheeple to the shears.
    I haven't looked at the prospectus since I liquidated my position BUT, SLV ONLY delivers physical Ag to recognized partners ( may not be the exact term they use, but it was THE REASON I liquidated) and in basket quantities. The average investor could hold a basket or baskets in quantity but if they were not a recognized partner[term?] all the investor gets is fiat when liquidating.

    The prospectus is available on the internet. - enjoy My bad I noticed Broox..., has posted the prospectus. The term is: Authorized Participants. Not every investor in SLV is considered an Authorized Participant(s).

    Gb
    Last edited by Goldbrix; 30th April 2013 at 11:55. Reason: added Broox props
    Gb

    LUCK favors the PREPARED darling. - "Edna Mole"

    ATTENTION Liberals and Progressives - The path to HELL is paved with good intentions.
    ( The USA is certainly spiraling in that direction)

    "The future ain't what it used to be". - Yogi Berra

    .

  8. #38
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    Unhappy same old same old

    Quote Originally Posted by ;244157
    I haven't looked at the prospectus since I liquidated my position BUT, SLV ONLY delivers physical Ag to recognized partners ( may not be the exact term they use, but it was THE REASON I liquidated) and in basket quantities. The average investor could hold a basket or baskets in quantity but if they were not a recognized partner[term?] all the investor gets is fiat when liquidating.

    The prospectus is available on the internet. - enjoy My bad I noticed Broox..., has posted the prospectus. The term is: Authorized Participants. Not every investor in SLV is considered an Authorized Participant(s).

    Gb
    Kudos Goldbrix.

    I think most already have figured out which tribe a recognized partner must be involved with.
    "I foresee little future in 'the price of silver', I see a huge future for 'the price in silver'." - heartbone
    "The truth is called hate by those who hate the truth." - K

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by broox419 View Post
    Zerohedge, CNBC and Fox News all reported this in April 2011 at the same time COMEX raised margin requirements 8 times within a month which to the best of my knowledge is unprecedented. As far as lawsuits go, there are several filed by GATA and the CFTC and they all get dismissed because they lack "evidence". You see if the is no physical metal, then there is no "evidence". There has to be something of value that the banks are "manipulating" and since the banks don't have to audit their PM holdings, there is no proof they even existed to begin with. It's a ponzi scheme. It's not just SLV, any paper lease on a commodity or real estate is equally manipulative and of rigged value.
    Silver, gold, platinum, palladium, rhodium, copper, tin, zinc, and nickel don't spoil. So I must ask why the need for the futures market? I ask because right now there are many mining companies that are getting outrighted f#cked by the paper price set by the futures market. The futures market was intended to protect farmers from unforeseen events and now it's being used to screw the producers of alternate currencies. It's not like this is the first time bankers take advantage of the rules so they can profit. For f#ck's sake look what Goldman Sachs conjured up years ago. You can't honestly believe they would leave the metals markets untouched because PM's have no value? The global banking cabal will do anything to force gold and for that matter silver out of weak hands. If Cyprus was a woman, the banksters left her a$$ in the air and made here thank them not using lube. And now they want to pawn her gold to make her pay. The funny thing is there are even more f#cktards in this country that when faced with it will think it's a good idea to listen to the banksters.
    If my memory serves me correct, China tried to take delivery and were denied. Anyhow here is a copy of the prospectus. Please tell me what page it says that delivery of 50,000 ounces is possible. It says that increments of 50,000 Shares are deliverable and that the amount of metal is completely arbitrary to market conditions. It also states that they are entirely dependent upon COMEX for the price of their shares. Simply put, if COMEX fails SLV fails with it!
    Feel free to call up some of the largest miners on the planet such as Fresnillo or Codelco and ask them why they hedge their production and proven reserves. As a matter of fact, it is rare for a miner of any significant size not to hedge.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by valerb View Post
    Well you answered your own question, you just didn't realize it. Yes that 50,000 shares is their equivalent of 50,000 ounces and the arbitrary market conditions they are speaking of is the "price of Silver" not the availability of the Silver. They are pointing out that their share price mirrors the price of Silver on the COMEX and it will run at approximately 96.5% of the COMEX price. That's because of the management fees taken since it's inception on April 21, 2006. In other words each share has been slowly diluted by 3.5% over the past seven years. Here is the page for SLV that shows all of their details regarding ounces, shares, net asset value (96.581%) http://us.ishares.com/product_info/f...erview/SLV.htm
    As with all commodity investments, they are simply pointing out, that your investments will be controlled by the paper market at COMEX like everyone else in the commodities market in the US. They are not special and they will live and die by the same sword that slays all the rest of us at that paper casino. It has nothing to do with their ability to deliver a basket of Silver.
    Your posting information regarding law suits that were allegations of manipulation involving margin calls and that has nothing to do with failing to deliver anyone's Silver or Gold in 2011. That has been my argument all along with COMEX and their ability to screw with the market at will with margin calls. I put a lot into those thoughts myself and I couldn't agree more, but that still doesn't have anything to do with PM being available for delivery. It does smack of favoritism on the part of the short contract holders back then and it did kill a wild and woolly market that we were all loving dearly. But to assume it was done to protect the market from collapsing from a lack of PM is a lot different than to protect the investors from taking a major financial killing. No one really had to take delivery of PM to keep the market flying higher, just new buyers coming into the market and be willing to pay whatever is being asked for an existing contract. All they had to do was keep bidding the same contracts up higher and higher and that's when COMEX stepped in and killed the drive by forcing players out of the market with five margin calls in a weeks time. It just created a cascading effect and even those that didn't have a problem meeting the margin calls had to jump ship because of the losses that were piling up on their contracts with falling prices.
    As Matt points out, margin calls are justifiable, but they should have implemented several along the way as the price kept climbing higher instead of pulling the plunger and letting it all dump out at one time. That smacks of a planned killing of the market and in favor of the short contract holders and we know who most of them are.
    Margin increases are directly related to the previous day's market movement and volatility, not the movement up or down. Margin calls have only to do with how much capital you have in your account, if you have sufficient funds, you will never get a margin call.

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