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Help Appreciated
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Thread: Help Appreciated

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14

    Default Help Appreciated

    Hello Everyone,

    I am in high school and I'm trying to invest in some silver.


    First off, I have alot of pre 1965 90% silver coins.. what do you think I should do with them? Sell, Save or what?

    Recently I've been buying some small silver bullion as well as some eagles.
    Not much..only about 25 ounces worth so far.

    I have a decent amount of money just sitting there, so if you do advise me to buy more silver, what type of silver should I look for? (Bigger Bars, Smaller Bars, Eagles?)

    What do you think the market will do in the next fifteen years?

    I've read so much on the web, but I''m just looking for some personal opinions.

    Thank you guys so much...

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Miami, Florida
    Posts
    24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by jigster12 View Post
    Hello Everyone,

    I am in high school and I'm trying to invest in some silver.


    First off, I have alot of pre 1965 90% silver coins.. what do you think I should do with them? Sell, Save or what?

    Recently I've been buying some small silver bullion as well as some eagles.
    Not much..only about 25 ounces worth so far.

    I have a decent amount of money just sitting there, so if you do advise me to buy more silver, what type of silver should I look for? (Bigger Bars, Smaller Bars, Eagles?)

    What do you think the market will do in the next fifteen years?

    I've read so much on the web, but I''m just looking for some personal opinions.

    Thank you guys so much...
    Personally I only buy the cheap silver liberty's for the spot price of silver. The coin dealers only charge like .50 or .75 over spot price. Even if its one ounce per week. Silver's future is very bright if you ask me. And as for what to do with those 90% silver coins... SAVE them! That's what I would do.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default Acquiring PM's

    My 2-cents plus don't neglect education; get all of it that you can because it will open a lot of doors and greater degree of financial success that will help you generate expendable FRNs that you can trade for metals down the road.
    Print this up for your personal use; you have my permission. I hope it helps you.

    Developing A Plan & Acquiring Physical Gold and Silver

    Important questions to ask:

    1. Why am I trading to acquire metals…for what reason(s) do I want them?
    2. Am I in for the Long-term or the Short-term?
    3. How do I plan to budget my income to create discretionary monies that
    I can trade for metals?
    4. Which metals do I plan to acquire?
    5. Do I plan to hold physical metals, or trade for “paper”/”e” metals, or a
    combination of both? If the latter, what percentage of each?
    6. What forms of each metal do I want to own?
    7. What percentages (in ounces) of each form of metal do I plan to acquire,
    and by what ball-park future date do I want to have them in hand?
    8. Where do I plan to get my metals?
    9. How many Federal Reserve Notes do I plan to make available each week
    to trade for metals?
    10. Where do I plan to store the physical metals I acquire?
    11. Depending on location, what kinds of containers and what methods am I
    going to use to securely store my metals?
    12. Where do I plan to store my frequently changing written inventory of
    metals I hold?
    13. What trusted persons will I make privy to where I’ve hidden the inventory,
    that also reports the locations of my stored metals?
    14. Am I going to maintain and hide one or two copies of my metals
    inventory?

    The “Rules”:

    1. Acquire metals as a store of wealth for current and future security.
    2. The only PMs you own are the ones you hold in your hand.
    3. “Mums” the word!
    4. Don’t think of gold and silver as “commodities” and don’t think of trading
    for them in the short-term.
    5. Don’t think in terms of “buying” and “selling” metals. Rather, think in
    terms of “trading” them “in” and “trading” them “out”.
    6. Never chase a runaway stagecoach. It always comes back – sometimes
    not all the way, but it will retreat and this is the time to climb onboard.
    7. Cost-average all trades over the long haul, and consider acquiring on
    downward trends when spot is near or at the 200 DMA (Day Moving
    Average).
    8. Don’t look at spot prices unless and until you’re ready to trade.
    9. If you forget rule #8 it will hurt you.
    10. Plan safe and secure storage before you acquire any metals.
    11. When planning storage consider the possibilities of fire, metal detectors,
    and intrusive government.
    12. Store your metals in multiple locations and figuratively forget about them.
    13. Keep a precise written inventory of your holdings and where they’re
    located.
    14. Tell at least two trusted family members about the metals you have, and
    where you’ve hidden your inventory.
    15. Don’t track the value of your holdings. It doesn’t matter what their
    market value is, period. You aren’t going to use your holdings for
    collateral and what are you going to trade holdings for anyway, FRNs?
    Please!
    16. Trade first to get silver, then get gold.
    17. Consider avoiding platinum and palladium, and avoid pre-1933 U.S. and
    World Gold Coins unless you have numismatic interest, want to collect
    them, and know exactly what you’re doing.
    18. Cash & carry trading with no name and no paper or e-trail is the best
    policy.
    19. Diversity is the hallmark of a prudent investor.
    20. Bars are neither the most liquid nor the most frequently traded form of
    bullion.
    21. Consider avoiding 50 and 100-ounce silver bars, avoid all gold bars that
    don’t have an assay card, and limit the bars you acquire to only those
    produced by Engelhard, Johnson Matthey (JM), Credit Suisse, and Credit
    Pamp.
    22. Begin by trading to acquire pre-1965 U.S. 90% silver dimes, quarters, and
    half-dollars. Optimally first get dimes, then quarters and halves. Consider
    working to achieve a ratio of perhaps 50% dimes, 25% quarters, and 25%
    halves.
    23. While working to obtain the total amount of 90% desired, start acquiring
    name brand Englehard, Johnson Matthey (JM), and Sunshine1-ounce
    silver rounds and/or bars (depending on preference and premium).
    Additional choices might include generic rounds struck by A-Mark, Monex,
    U.S. Assay Office, Silvertowne, Pan American, Northwest Territorial Mint,
    and others that are frequently seen and thus highly recognizable. Also
    acquire 1- ounce U.S. Silver Eagle and/or 1-ounce Canadian Silver Maple
    Leaf modern bullion coins.
    24. Begin to acquire 10-ounce name-brand silver bars. Choose in order:
    Engelhard, Johnson Matthey, Sunshine, A-Mark, U.S. Assay Office, and
    Silvertowne.
    25. The desired ratio in ounces of 90% silver coins, rounds/bars, and U.S.
    Silver Eagles and/or Canadian Silver Maple Leafs, varies among
    individuals. Optimally a person should trade to acquire over time, the total
    amount of each form and ratio of forms that their plan calls for.
    26. When diverse forms of silver are in-hand, begin trading to obtain a mix of
    1-ounce and fractional-ounce U.S. Gold Eagles and/or Canadian Gold
    Maple Leafs, and think about acquiring South African 1-ounce gold
    Kruggerands and fractional ounce British gold Sovereigns that trade at a
    small amount over spot.

    Private Ownership of Gold and Silver
    Copyright 2002, 2004, 2005, and 2006 by Boulder Productions

    All rights reserved. This material may not be reproduced in whole or part, in any form or by any means, electronic, mechanical, or otherwise including information storage and retrieval systems, without the express written permission from the publisher.
    Last edited by goldminer; 23rd August 2007 at 21:47.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8

    Smile

    Goldminer, really excellent information. I am a very new silver trader and really needed some ground rules.

    I have only made 3 trades so far.

    $39.90 face 90% dimes for $399.50.

    5 1 oz rounds for $60.00

    4 1921 Morgan 90% Dollars for $50.00.

    I "think" I did the best on the 90 % dimes, although Melt Value Calculator says $336.26. I bought when spot was @ $12.50. So I lost right off but I believe I made a good deal based on spot price at that time.

    The rounds I paid some above spot but none are from the name brands you mentioned.

    The Morgan dollars now seem pretty high since I paid $12.50 ea. and Melt Calculator is $9.01.

    I put this bad deal down to my ignorance. I didn't know the weight of silver in a Morgan dollar. I really didn't know it was a Morgan dollar until I looked in up on the Calculator. I did learn a lesson though and it was pretty cheap. The salesman told me the dollar was "just over one oz. “. Oh Well, I learned 2 lessons, don't do business with that salesman and the Morgan dollar is .7735 troy oz.
    Life’s a joke and we're the punch line.

    Once again thanks for the info, it has helped me analyze the trades I have done so far with an eye to improving. I am not the least discouraged. When I went in the store I wanted to get some dollar “face” coins. The Morgan’s were in a bin marked “Common Dollars”. I wasn’t interested in collectables, but I would say these coins are “good” as they show little wear.

    I really link the sound silver makes when it “rings”.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default US Ag dollars and trades

    U.S. silver dollars carry a numismatic premium although there are literally tens and tens of millions of them out there. IMO they have value above the content of silver in that they enjoy legal tender status, are of unquestionable authenticity, very difficult to counterfeit, readily recognized and liquid, and have government guarantee re the content and purity of Ag contained. Like other 90% Ag coins they are in the U.S. and Canada, good items to have in a SHTF environment.

    A down-side to alloyed silver like 90% (90% Ag and 10% Cu...gold and silver coins struck for circulation have for the most always been alloyed to make them more durable to withstand the rigors of circulation - gold and silver are too soft to serve as functional items) is that although a lot might contain (say) a $100.00 worth of silver, a refinery incurrs costs in refining the alloy to recover the pure silver. For this reason 90% and other alloyed silver items (i.e. sterling @ 92.5% or .925 fine) will be discounted, meaning the refinery will pay something less than the total melt value of the PM contained.

    If you trade to acquire Canadian Ag coins, be careful that you don't pay too much for them. The pre-1967 dimes, quarters, halves, and dollar coins are 80% Ag.

    Silver dollars are a good avenue of diversification. Just (as with other forms) cost-average your trades over the long haul. And though a trader in for the long-term doesn't want to think of Au and Ag as commodities, in reality they are, and as such are in forms that a person wants to shop around for, particularly since different items of most forms are pre-owned, they are traded on secondary markets, just like other commodities made available to buyers at flea markets, antique & collectable shows, Good Will, Salvation Army, yard sales, and other places. Sellers vary prices so shop, shop, shop, and then when and where you can get the most metal for your FRNs - make the trade.

    Realize though that someone just beginning is kind of "over a barrel" because they want to acquire but yet don't have anywhere near what they ultimately want to hold, so they feel somewhat forced to pay a little more than they otherwise would, because what's important to them is to hold metals...and if they don't get 'em they're not building a stash. Thus the mental key: think in terms of cost-averaging over the long haul. Sometimes you'll pay what you think is a bit too much, and other times you'll find a good "deal" and over a period the cost of all trades made will average out.

    Welcome to a facinating world that most people have no idea about because mentally and behaviorally we've been led so far away from gold and silver that we have no awareness of them beyond jewelry, old relic coins, and large bars that we see pictured stored in central bank and government vaults. The irony is that while we are living in a mental (metal) stuper of unawareness, in reality tens of thousands of ounces of Au and Ag are traded every minute of every day all over the world by folks that know the real story: All paper dollars and other instruments exchanged today have no intrisic value. They are worth only what people believe they are worth. We accept dollars in trade for our time and work only because we believe that in turn, we can trade them for goods and services we need.

    And government, banking, investment, and other business interests only care about paper dollars and other instruments because it is the movement of these items that generate business profit and tax revenue for government spending. Acquiring an item physical metal and holding it doesn't generate one penny of either business profit or tax revenue. This is why government, banking, investment, and other business interests do not talk about the importance that people acquire and hold some gold & silver. Pick up a money/investment magazine and what you'll see inside is all about trading paper instruments by some name.

    The only thing you might see is an advertisement by a dealer conning you saying for bogus reasons that you need to hold some old government struck gold/silver coins...because dealers makes a lot more money selling them then they will ever make selling non-government struck bullion items. Stay away from old gold coins unless you want to collect them and know what you're doing.
    Last edited by goldminer; 16th September 2007 at 10:35.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Oklahoma
    Posts
    8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by goldminer View Post
    U.S. silver dollars carry a numismatic premium although there are literally tens and tens of millions of them out there. IMO they have value above the content of silver in that they enjoy legal tender status, are of unquestionable authenticity, very difficult to counterfeit, readily recognized and liquid, and have government guarantee re the content and purity of Ag contained.
    Right now my local store is selling ASEs for $16.00. I have purchased some but don't like paying that much over spot. Whats your opinion on that price, does it seem in line?

    Also on the "Rules" you posted could you explain the DMA and how or where I can find this. Thanks

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default

    Firstly if you haven't yet done it, google search "Gold is Money" (GIM) and add the group of forums to your "favorites" list. A person can acquire a wealth of information about many things in hundreds of different threads under such categories as "Gold Silver - Precious Metals", "Purchasing Gold and Silver", "Precious Metals - Gold - Silver - Stocks", "Gold - Silver - coins - Numismatics". There are also other categories you might be interested in.

    You can pull up the GIM home page; here's a link to the forum categories archives: http://goldismoneyinfo/forums/archiv...x.php/f-1.html
    A lot of the following information came from GIM member posts.

    Gold and Silver: Trading using a DMA= Daily Moving Average:

    A 200 DMA is a moving average of the price in the past 200 days

    DMA can be whatever duration you want them to be, but obviously, a shorter time duration DMA shows more of the daily volatility of silver and gold. A 200 DMA filters out much of the daily, weekly, monthly price volatility to show you a picture at that moment, of how gold/silver is performing based on its recent history.

    If gold/silver is way above its 200 DMA, then that means it has been outperforming its past 200 day price average significantly. Much of the time when it gets out ahead of itself too far, it will tend to correct down to the 200 DMA, bounce off it, and take another run up. But, if gold/silver break well below its 200 DMA that can be a sign that the secular bull market could be in trouble.

    Its really a technical way of describing: "two steps up, one step back, two steps up, one step back, two steps up, one step back". If you can tend to buy on the "one step back" instead of the "two steps up" you can significantly increase your returns over the long run.

    The problem with this, as in any technical analysis, is that it is by no means foolproof. It is just a guide.
    People who use shorter DMA's are using them to rapidly trade in and out of investments based on very short term volatility.

    A simple way to watch the 200 DMA's is to go to Yahoo finance, and look at the gold and silver exchange traded funds (GLD for gold) and SLV for silver. The price of SLV and GLD are not in ounces like the spot prices, their prices though are a proxy for silver and gold, so don't focus on the actual price.

    Just type in SLV in the quote box, after the quote comes up, click on Technical Analysis. It will take you to another screen with a 1 yr price chart, you will see an option that will show you 200 DMA, click on it, and you will get a red line along with the graph of the price. The red line is your 200 DMA, and then, it is just a matter of looking at where the blue line is in relation to it. (Another option is to go to kitco.com, and click on Charts and Data, and then Gold under Technical Charts).

    In theory, what you want to do is load up when you get down to the 200 DMA, and sit tight when it is significantly above it. The problem with this is that it works in reverse when the secular bull market is over....and, you end up chasing the price all the way down with additional purchases in a secular bear mkt. The other problem is that you could be sitting on the sidelines with your cash because it is way above its 200 DMA, and miss out on a big run up. That is why, at the end of the day, you want to base your investment decisions on the fundamentals surrounding that investment. You should use technical analysis (TA) as a tool to help you add to your investment at the most opportune times.

    If your fundamental view changes to negative, then TA can be used to get you out of your investment at the most opportune times. But, given gold and silver's volatility, if my fundamental view changes, I am not using TA to get out, I am running for the door. The best person that I have read that combines good fundamental analysis with good basic TA is Zeal investing.

    Watch out for TA because there are all kinds of people who claim that they have some "system" all figured out and that stocks and gold are driven by the chart trends; they are not, they are driven by the fundamentals.

    Use TA as a general guide, but don't turn it into a religion.

    And re ASE's: In my experience, uncirculated commond date coins usually trade at $1.50-$2.00 over spot. The best thing a person can do who wants ASE's just for silver, is to find some that are scratched, dented from being dropped, or somehow otherwise "marred". These usually trade for about fifty or sixty-cents over spot. Look for them at coin shows mixed in with 1 oz. Ag generic rounds.
    Last edited by goldminer; 19th September 2007 at 21:06.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Fly-over country, South Dakota. The heart of the USA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default Bump City, USA

    Lots of good info on this thread.
    Bumping it up so all can see.
    JesterJay

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Yes, thanks alot for all the information.

    Now I'm a silver master!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    78

    Default

    Jigster......stash all your 90% and stick to collecting them(dimes are my fave) for now, unless you can get deals on other forms. i've found that with 90% you get more bang for your buck, a lot of times you can pay well below melt value.check your local coinshops or even ebay. If you play it right you can get 90% delivered to your door,shipping included,BELOW MELT.90% moves with the spot price of silver so as long as the price of silver doesn't depreciate neither does your investment. in times of crisis it even commands higher premiums. Think about it like this, where else can you get a STANDARD unit of silver smaller than a 90% dime,quarter or even half Dollar? When it comes to selling, maybe you don't want to get rid of a whole ounce. Also,think about hard times and how valuable it would be to have a stash of silver dimes! BUY 90% dimes!!!

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