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Melt Value Calculator - Page 2
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Thread: Melt Value Calculator

  1. #11
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22

    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by goldminer View Post
    Joke today but a word to the wise: tomorrow the weight difference between uncirculated and circulated coins may not be a joking matter.

    The proverbial "average" circulated coin is hypothetical: it will never be seen because it's precise weight will never be known.

    When struck, $1000.00 face value 90% silver dimes, quarters, and halves, contained 723.4 ounces of .999+ (.999 purity was the minimum acceptable fineness) fine silver.

    Because it is not feasible to weigh every circulated 90% coin, a number of randomly selected bags of $1000.00 face circulated coins were weighed and it was determined that on average, those bages contained 715 oz. of pure silver = a difference of 8.4 oz. per $1k face. The 715 oz. of pure silver per $1K face value bags has been widely excepted as a market norm used to determine the value of "average" circulated coins.

    The (now viewed) small difference in weight between an uncirculated and "average" circulated 90% (say) dime, is inconsequental, given we are talking about a single dime, and the current spot price of silver.

    An opposite view will be taken in the future if/when silver reaches the 100-1000-plus dollar spot that many people are projecting...and rather than a single dime, they're talking about the value of silver contained in 10 to 1000 dollar face lots of the coins. To this end the value of 90% coins will be determined (and traded) by weight rather then face-value.

    This is why today in some folks opinion, that it is important (1) not to pay too much for significantly worn coins, and (2) only acquire coins that do not show significant wear (i.e. Roosevelt vs. mercury dimes, most recent dated Washington quarters, and Franklin vs. Walking Lib. and '64 Kennedy half-dollars.

    Just something somebody might want to think about.
    I saw what the guy stated as a roll of "fake" Morgans worn and all and it scared the he1l out of me. He wanted to show evryone for some reason or another.

    He himself was a shaky person if you asked me. We were at a gunshow where you quite often see coins on display. I was asking him the difference and he was rambling off a bunch of what I thought was nonsemse. He didn't even have a "real" one to compare them to.

    I bought another morgan and took them over to see the difference under his 6 power glass. I could not tell the diff with feel, sound or eye. I don't know if he was trying to scare others not to buy any that came through the door.

    I went home and weighed mine. Most peace and morgans were 26.7 to 26.9 grams. My SAE were 31.3 to 31.4. My silver rounds were 31.1 to 31.3. I did find a morgan that weighed 27.2 and sounded just like silver but the color was off..along with the look.

    What is the proper weight of these coins and could the SAE vary by dates 2-3 grams out of the wrappers? I did find the ones from littleton has diff wrapper weights by 2 grams. Thanks.

  2. #12
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default

    "...What is the proper weight of these coins and could the SAE vary by dates 2-3 grams out of the wrappers? I did find the ones from littleton has diff wrapper weights by 2 grams..."

    Silver Eagle coins are struck by the U.S. government mint and contain 1 troy oz. of 99.9% (.999 or 999) fine silver and overall are comprised of 99.93% and .0007 copper. The copper is alloyed to make the coin more durable to withstand the rigors of circulation if ever called to serve in that capacity. As a result of adding copper, an Eagle weighs slightly more than 1 Troy oz. = 31.1035 grams/g = 480 grains/gr).

    Silver "rounds" are struck by private mints. A legitimate 1 oz. round contains 1 Troy oz. of (normally) 99.9%/.999 fine silver...through there are some that are "sterling" (92.5%/.925 fine).

    This said, "pefect" does not exist. Specifically I mean that if a person could get a scale that weighs to an accuracy of (say) quintrillions then no two Eagles or rounds would weigh exactly the same. As a result all coins and bullion items are produced to fall in a certain range of weight called "tolerances".

    The only metals I acquire are single different 1 oz. silver rounds that I like. I collect them. Several years ago I randomly picked and weighed 20 different 1 oz. silver rounds on a scale that was accurate to the hundredth's of a grain. Only a couple weighed the same to the hundredth of a grain and all of the others were different. Only one weighed less then 480 gr = 31.035 g. and it's weight was 479.02 grains = .08 hundredths shy of 1 troy oz.

    I don't know what the U.S. mint's weight tolerance for ASE's is but you could probably find out if you check with them. They purchase the 1 oz. silver planchets from the private sector to make ASE's, and since "perfect" doesn't exist I would bet there's a weight tolerance in planchet specifications that they hold the private producers to. And I doubt that much if any silver is lost from a planchet when it is converted to ASE form.

    I wouldn't get hung up on a little bit of weight. Relevant to counterfeit coins, the best thing to do is to become familiar with the details of a legitimate coin and then learn how to identify counterfeits by how they virtually always differ a bit in detail.

    Generally under a 10X glass, a counterfeit coin will not show sharp edges to letters, numbers, and other features. There also are frequently short thin-line stryations that run onto the surface of the coin from the rim, and/or small indent areas on the surface and/or little "bubbles"or beads....raised areas on the surface.

    Counterfeit coins that are produce by casting always have poor appearance and are easy to identify by someone who is familiar with a legitimate coin and takes the time and effort to study the suspected counterfeit. Better counterfeit coins are produced by striking a planchet like government mints do.

    When a counterfeiter produces a die it has small imperfections that the counterfeiter trys to correct using small tools that virtually always remove too much metal that in turn shows up on the coin when it is struck.

    There are some very good counterfeit coins out there that are difficult for a novice to detect but these are generally high dollar collectables...coins with low mintages that are scarce to rare. But a person acquiring for the sake of bullion wants to avoid coins with numismatic value so they're of no concern.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Posts
    22

    Default thanks

    Thanks for the response. I lost my question in all the posts. It was very helpful. I also learned if it is not marked 999 0r 925 most likely it is not silver..even if it has a serial number on it.
    What is the best way to test silver? I bought the silver acid kit and they are iffy. thanks again, easygoing

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Florida -The Redneck Riviera
    Posts
    1,734

    Default

    Interesting. Can anyone explain why a silver eagle is so much bigger than say an Engelhard round, even though they weight the same?

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2008
    Location
    Fly-over country, South Dakota. The heart of the USA
    Posts
    1,403

    Default It's that little rim around the edge...

    Big deep rim on the larger diameter Eagle. The 'Spector is almost a flat blank.
    JesterJay


    Quote Originally Posted by research24 View Post
    Interesting. Can anyone explain why a silver eagle is so much bigger than say an Engelhard round, even though they weight the same?
    If you don't GOT it, You don't GET it!

  6. #16
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default

    "...Can anyone explain why a silver eagle is so much bigger than say an Engelhard round, even though they weight the same?...

    They don't weigh the same. Prospectors contain 1 oz. pure silver; Eagles also contain one oz. of pure silver but additionally have copper alloyed to make them durable to withstand the rigors of circulation should they ever serve in that capacity.

    The alloyed copper makes Eagle coins larger then any 1 oz. pure silver round.

  7. #17
    sunsetcliff Guest

    Smile

    Quote Originally Posted by goldminer View Post
    "...Can anyone explain why a silver eagle is so much bigger than say an Engelhard round, even though they weight the same?...

    They don't weigh the same. Prospectors contain 1 oz. pure silver; Eagles also contain one oz. of pure silver but additionally have copper alloyed to make them durable to withstand the rigors of circulation should they ever serve in that capacity.

    The alloyed copper makes Eagle coins larger then any 1 oz. pure silver round.

    I love this forumn. So then the eagles would in theory be more durable.

    I agree with what you are saying on worn coins. I did dimes on ebay - badly worn. I thought- thats why they call it junk silver. LOL.

    I do think the day is coming where the weight measures will become more precise. and demanded. they can measure atomic particles. the time down to a fraction of a second.

    Im thinking that to the silver collector, that variety is good- tho stick to the tried and trues of the hobby.

    Silver is down today. An opportunity to grab some more.

  8. #18
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Posts
    403

    Default

    "...I did dimes on ebay - badly worn. I thought- thats why they call it junk silver. "

    The term "Junk silver" has it origin in the ranks of coin dealers & collectors. To these folks any coin that didn't have numismatic value (for whatever reason: high mintage numbers, damage, wear, etc.) was "junk". Junk silver coins were those that had no collectors value yet had some worth determined by the value of the silver it containes.

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Posts
    1,490

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sunsetcliff View Post
    I love this forumn. So then the eagles would in theory be more durable.

    I agree with what you are saying on worn coins. I did dimes on ebay - badly worn. I thought- thats why they call it junk silver. LOL.

    Wrong....The ASE has only a very small amount of copper added to make it more durable than pure silver, but far less durable than "junk" silver which has 10% copper.
    TRUTH is not dependent on one's belief of it...
    John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

    "Get Real"

  10. #20
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    92

    Default would be perfect for the new year

    "I wrote an EXCEL Silver Calculator program, that is very cool. Cooler than the link above."

    Oh, I wish I had a cool silver calculator program

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