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silversurfer1
15th December 2009, 06:07
He keeps us focused. Dollar rally just temporary. It's not really a "rally" - are we calling the index going up to 76 or 77 a "rally."?? It's a joke. It has just climbed a little higher up the inside of the toilet bowl - that's all. Many more flushes to come before it finally goes down.

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2009/12/11/the-future-of-gold-the-dollar-and-more.aspx

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_5vkPiCEjjdg/SyUFdpLG6VI/AAAAAAAAFKE/OSMRiIo-vpg/s400/5.4.jpg

hippiebrian
15th December 2009, 06:16
Let's see, the Motley Fools, in 2006, were spewing "buy stocks, buy stocks" like parrots, and look what happened to the people who listened to them then. Now they're parroting "buy gold, buy gold" like parrots. Hope they're right this time, but it makes me kind of nervous...

valerb
15th December 2009, 06:53
He keeps us focused. Dollar rally just temporary.

Peter is predicting the dollar will continue to fall for several years. That sounds like a very slow decline to me.

Most of us equate a falling dollar value with an increase in cost of goods. In some cases that's true, while in others it's not. Most of the items we buy in this country are way overpriced. I've traveled to a lot of European countries and prices for the same object varies dramatically from one country to the next, especially when you travel to the former eastern block nations. The further East you travel, the cheaper things become. They are buying the same tennis shoes and jeans made in China. So many talk about the Asians selling things for a loss here in the US, just to keep our business. I think they are still making a profit, if they can sell the same items to other areas of the world for less. When the Chinese can manufacture a pair of tennis shoes for a few dollars and they sell for $100 here, I think there is still a little more wiggle room for prices to drop. We can pay several hundred dollars a month for a single prescription in this country and yet the same drugs are sold for a fraction in other countries.

It's the same old story of supply and demand and what the market will bare.

hippiebrian
15th December 2009, 07:09
Peter is predicting the dollar will continue to fall for several years. That sounds like a very slow decline to me.

Most of us equate a falling dollar value with an increase in cost of goods. In some cases that's true, while in others it's not. Most of the items we buy in this country are way overpriced. I've traveled to a lot of European countries and prices for the same object varies dramatically from one country to the next, especially when you travel to the former eastern block nations. The further East you travel, the cheaper things become. They are buying the same tennis shoes and jeans made in China. So many talk about the Asians selling things for a loss here in the US, just to keep our business. I think they are still making a profit, if they can sell the same items to other areas of the world for less. When the Chinese can manufacture a pair of tennis shoes for a few dollars and they sell for $100 here, I think there is still a little more wiggle room for prices to drop. We can pay several hundred dollars a month for a single prescription in this country and yet the same drugs are sold for a fraction in other countries.

It's the same old story of supply and demand and what the market will bare.

Drugs in other countries are government subsidized and price controlled, which is why they are affordable over there. Here, where uncontrolled free market economy rules, there is no subsidizing or price control and medications are expensive for those who don't have insurance. Sometimes prohibitively so, making them out of reach for many who need them.

valerb
15th December 2009, 07:43
Drugs in other countries are government subsidized and price controlled, which is why they are affordable over there. Here, where uncontrolled free market economy rules, there is no subsidizing or price control and medications are expensive for those who don't have insurance. Sometimes prohibitively so, making them out of reach for many who need them.

Not really, we sell them to other countries at whatever the market will bare. Our drug market is rigged. You can buy the same brand drugs in Canada for much less and they allow generic versions there while we are not allowed access to the same generic drugs in this country. I read an article one time on a single brand drug and it listed the different prices from around the world. When the drug companies were asked why our prices are so much higher here in the US for their same drugs. They responded that they needed to recoup their cost to bring the drug to market. So what in the hell does that have to do with screwing the US citizens, versus the rest of the world? Drugs are just like most everything else in the medical world, rape and pillage. My wife had an operation at Emory University and the bill was over $27,000. The insurance paid them $2,500 and we paid a co-pay of $1,000 for a total of only $3,500. If we didn't have insurance, she would not have had the surgery. It was one of those, we think it will help and it didn't. So how can a hospital actually survive on only being paid $3,500 for a $27,000 operation and that included the surgeons bill. It's simple, the operation only took an hour and thirty minutes. Just how much do those five or six people make an hour to begin with. She spent several hours in post op and then went home. It's the same way with prescription drugs in this country. The insurance companies pay one price and everyone else pays a huge premium if they don't have insurance. How do the insurance companies get the greatly reduced prices, they don't allow their customers to use a drug unless they get the price level they want. While other insurance companies simply won't allow their customers access to virtually all new drugs, until the prices drop. Which is some cases takes several years.

podrag
15th December 2009, 07:51
Drugs in other countries are government subsidized and price controlled, which is why they are affordable over there. Here, where uncontrolled free market economy rules, there is no subsidizing or price control and medications are expensive for those who don't have insurance. Sometimes prohibitively so, making them out of reach for many who need them.

That's the biggest list of logical fallacies I think I've ever read in one paragraph.

1) Subsidies make things more expensive. More money chases the same product.

2) Price controls make things more scarce because they are less economic to produce.

1) + 2) = Healthcare is MORE expensive and MORE scarce.

3) American healthcare is not an uncontrolled free market it is a highly regulated cartel. Cartels get to fix prices to suit themelves.Cartels don't exist in free markets as there are no state-imposed barriers to entry.

4) At least in private medicine advanced medicines are available to some depending on some kind of merit. Here in the UK we don't get them and if we do it's a ZIP code lottery.

5) Anyone who's not desperately poor and without access to charity gets robbed of services you would otherwise have. Most of those poor people are poor because of government intervention in the economy anyway. People die because of socialised medicine. Socialised medicine crowds out free market forces, homogenises healthcare, enriches government insiders, it is payed for with stolen money and anyone with any sense would never ask for it.

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 07:59
That's the biggest list of logical fallacies I think I've ever read in one paragraph.

1) Subsidies make things more expensive. More money chases the same product.

2) Price controls make things more scarce because they are less economic to produce.

1) + 2) = Healthcare is MORE expensive and MORE scarce.

3) American healthcare is not an uncontrolled free market it is a highly regulated cartel. Cartels get to fix prices to suit themelves.Cartels don't exist in free markets as there are no state-imposed barriers to entry.

4) At least in private medicine advanced medicines are available to some depending on some kind of merit. Here in the UK we don't get them and if we do it's a ZIP code lottery.

5) Anyone who's not desperately poor and without access to charity gets robbed of services you would otherwise have. Most of those poor people are poor because of government intervention in the economy anyway. People die because of socialised medicine. Socialised medicine crowds out free market forces, homogenises healthcare, enriches government insiders, it is payed for with stolen money and anyone with any sense would never ask for it.

I don't know Pod as Akak and Steve and Brian have come up with some beauties even more stupid than that one paragraph and continue to do so.
Just a word to the wise> read the other post and realize what I said that you CANNOT have an intelligent conversation with non-thinkers like this.
You will, as I have, become frustrated as it would be nice to have a two-sided conversation sometimes:(

SilverLite
15th December 2009, 08:23
That's hillarious... :)

sharehard
15th December 2009, 10:18
Drugs in other countries are government subsidized and price controlled, which is why they are affordable over there. Here, where uncontrolled free market economy rules, there is no subsidizing or price control and medications are expensive for those who don't have insurance. Sometimes prohibitively so, making them out of reach for many who need them.

Patents i.,e. monopolies enforced by government violence is not an example of an "uncontrolled free market economy". Get rid of patents (and government while you are at it) and you will have your cheap drugs.

Az2Africa
15th December 2009, 11:16
Patents i.,e. monopolies enforced by government violence is not an example of an "uncontrolled free market economy". Get rid of patents (and government while you are at it) and you will have your cheap drugs.

I doubt that research companies would spend the time and money to develope a product that anyone can produce without paying patent royalities.

akak
15th December 2009, 14:04
I don't know Pod as Akak and Steve and Brian have come up with some beauties even more stupid than that one paragraph and continue to do so.
Just a word to the wise> read the other post and realize what I said that you CANNOT have an intelligent conversation with non-thinkers like this.
You will, as I have, become frustrated as it would be nice to have a two-sided conversation sometimes:(

Just wondering how I got lumped in with UMassSteve and Hippiebrian --- care to elaborate?

I suspect it might have had something to do with having your false left-right political paradigm attacked. If so, I stand by everything I said 100%. I am not usually so blunt and direct in political discourse, but I am sick and tired of so many Americans being led by the nose onto that sterile and counterproductive merry-go-round while the politico-financial establishment stands back and laughs, and continues to dupe the ignorant and gullible to their ultimate advantage and benefit.

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 14:52
Just wondering how I got lumped in with UMassSteve and Hippiebrian --- care to elaborate?

I suspect it might have had something to do with having your false left-right political paradigm attacked. If so, I stand by everything I said 100%. I am not usually so blunt and direct in political discourse, but I am sick and tired of so many Americans being led by the nose onto that sterile and counterproductive merry-go-round while the politico-financial establishment stands back and laughs, and continues to dupe the ignorant.

Okay Akak--I exaggerated> you aren't that anti-American. I was upset you badmouthed Fox as WE (all the people on GIM, open minded people, et al) all agree that Fox is unequivocally the most unbiased network. We all like how they go after people who won't accept accountability. They have Judge Napolitano, a strict Constitutionalist as is Glen Beck who is almost singlehandedly stopping the ahole dems from passing the health care bill which would be the final nail in our country's fiscal coffin. I was angered that you dissed them. These aforementioned facts cannot be argued and if you do, I will put you back into the dreaded intellectually effete category.
Understand NOW!?
FOX, to repeat, goes after everyone with Geraldo, formerly a network shill, now having changed his ways. Fox is trying to save our country so try to show a little respect. OKAY?

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 14:57
http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?t=9232
AKAK-- Post 6---very asinine post.
Everyone was wrong on Iraq and O'Reilly has repented for years now.
How old are you Akak? That was 8 or so frickin years ago!
I don't remember anything about the Paul thing as I'm up to date Akak> saw Ron this morning live on MSNBC at 8:30. I'm not ensconced in the past even though I learn from it.
Have you ever see fox other than 9 years ago?
Did you see Glen Beck last night reading from the Constitution?
Ever heard of Judge Napolitano?
Buy a tv for God's sake Akak!

SilverJim
15th December 2009, 15:02
Okay Akak--I exaggerated> you aren't that anti-American. I was upset you badmouthed Fox as WE (all the people on GIM, open minded people, et al) all agree that Fox is unequivocally the most unbiased network. We all like how they go after people who won't accept accountability. They have Judge Napolitano, a strict Constitutionalist as is Glen Beck who is almost singlehandedly stopping the ahole dems from passing the health care bill which would be the final nail in our country's fiscal coffin. I was angered that you dissed them. These aforementioned facts cannot be argued and if you do, I will put you back into the dreaded intellectually effete category.
Understand NOW!?
FOX, to repeat, goes after everyone with Geraldo, formerly a network shill, now having changed his ways. Fox is trying to save our country so try to show a little respect. OKAY?

Joe, I was a conservative republican and devoted FoxNews watcher. Then I woke up to what's really going on in this country and as akak has tried to point out, TPTB are stirring the ongoing right-left paradigm debate and it is a design to keep the masses fighting each other while they steal us blind and turn the world into one big communist/facsist dictatorship which seeks to remove as many useless eaters as possible and enslave the rest. Rupert Murdock is one of them. FoxNews serves the purpose of sucking you, the conservative, into their scheme just like the liberal media does with the other side. Trust them at your peril.

LETMYSILVERGO
15th December 2009, 16:33
I say this with all the sincerity I can Muster--- ANYONE WHO WATCHES "THE FACTOR" & BELIEVES WHAT O'RIELY IS SPEWING, {NOTE TO SELF SELF, BE NICE } "SAYING" NEEDS HELP THAT IS NOT YET AVIALABLE IN THIS WORLD.

akak
15th December 2009, 16:49
I say this with all the sincerity I can Muster--- ANYONE WHO WATCHES "THE FACTOR" & BELIEVES WHAT O'RIELY IS SPEWING, {NOTE TO SELF SELF, BE NICE } "SAYING" NEEDS HELP THAT IS NOT YET AVIALABLE IN THIS WORLD.

I have to agree --- it is impossible for me to take Bilious O'Wryly seriously, or consider him as any sort of "journalist". The kind of ridiculous, slanted, biased, agenda-driven drivel that he propagates would have been laughed off the air 25 or 30 years ago, and at best would have been considered as nothing more than ignorant editorializing. Not that I am singling out O'Wryly here, as most if not all of his establishment mouthpiece counterparts on FOX and the other corporate-controlled media channels are no better.

Az2Africa
15th December 2009, 17:55
I have to agree --- it is impossible for me to take Bilious O'Wryly seriously, or consider him as any sort of "journalist". The kind of ridiculous, slanted, biased, agenda-driven drivel that he propagates would have been laughed off the air 25 or 30 years ago, and at best would have been considered as nothing more than ignorant editorializing. Not that I am singling out O'Wryly here, as most if not all of his establishment mouthpiece counterparts on FOX and the other corporate-controlled media channels are no better.

I'l be back in a minute guys. (leaves to get more popcorn) This may be entertaining.:rolleyes:

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 19:09
Joe, I was a conservative republican and devoted FoxNews watcher. Then I woke up to what's really going on in this country and as akak has tried to point out, TPTB are stirring the ongoing right-left paradigm debate and it is a design to keep the masses fighting each other while they steal us blind and turn the world into one big communist/facsist dictatorship which seeks to remove as many useless eaters as possible and enslave the rest. Rupert Murdock is one of them. FoxNews serves the purpose of sucking you, the conservative, into their scheme just like the liberal media does with the other side. Trust them at your peril.

Silver-can you read? I saw ron paul on cnbc and have that station on almost all day long. I am NOT conservative. I am registered as unenrolled.
Some people here are just hopeless.
You silver, are at extreme peril, with your reading comprehension issues and your inability to think issues, telling me, the conservative, I'm being sucked in.

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 19:12
I have to agree --- it is impossible for me to take Bilious O'Wryly seriously, or consider him as any sort of "journalist". The kind of ridiculous, slanted, biased, agenda-driven drivel that he propagates would have been laughed off the air 25 or 30 years ago, and at best would have been considered as nothing more than ignorant editorializing. Not that I am singling out O'Wryly here, as most if not all of his establishment mouthpiece counterparts on FOX and the other corporate-controlled media channels are no better.

Have you ever heard of Glen Beck?
Did you see him tonight fighting for our Constitution?

DaBrownsRPhat
15th December 2009, 19:16
Have you ever heard of Glen Beck?
Did you see him tonight fighting for our Constitution?

Did he have the chalk board?

akak
15th December 2009, 19:23
Have you ever heard of Glen Beck?
Did you see him tonight fighting for our Constitution?

Oh yeah, I do in fact tend to agree with Glenn Beck more often than not. However, his style and method still panders to sensationalism and emotion over reason and logic. Besides that, I will still never, ever forgive him for attacking Ron Paul (as EVERYONE on FOX did, again and again, in 2007 and 2008) and labeling his supporters as "terrorists". That was all I needed to hear from Glenn Beck to gauge his integrity, or lack thereof.

ccjoe
15th December 2009, 19:27
Oh yeah, I do in fact tend to agree with Glenn Beck more often than not. However, his style and method still panders to sensationalism and emotion over reason and logic. Besides that, I will still never, ever forgive him for attacking Ron Paul (as EVERYONE on FOX did, again and again, in 2007 and 2008) and labeling his supporters as "terrorists". That was all I needed to hear from Glenn Beck to gauge his integrity, or lack thereof.

I am NOT aware of that and I don't blame you if that's true, as I love Ron Paul.
I myself have trouble for forgiving him being friends with ahole Dave Ramsey but we all have our flaws.

LETMYSILVERGO
15th December 2009, 20:01
I'l be back in a minute guys. (leaves to get more popcorn) This may be entertaining.:rolleyes:

ARE YOU WAITING FOR THE DITTO HEADS TO COME OUT SWINGING????

UmassSteve
16th December 2009, 21:08
I doubt that research companies would spend the time and money to develope a product that anyone can produce without paying patent royalities.

No, research companies probably wouldn't. But government funded labs and professors sure as heck would if they got a little more funding from the government.

I'm just saying.

hippiebrian
16th December 2009, 21:32
That's the biggest list of logical fallacies I think I've ever read in one paragraph.

1) Subsidies make things more expensive. More money chases the same product.

2) Price controls make things more scarce because they are less economic to produce.

1) + 2) = Healthcare is MORE expensive and MORE scarce.

3) American healthcare is not an uncontrolled free market it is a highly regulated cartel. Cartels get to fix prices to suit themelves.Cartels don't exist in free markets as there are no state-imposed barriers to entry.

4) At least in private medicine advanced medicines are available to some depending on some kind of merit. Here in the UK we don't get them and if we do it's a ZIP code lottery.

5) Anyone who's not desperately poor and without access to charity gets robbed of services you would otherwise have. Most of those poor people are poor because of government intervention in the economy anyway. People die because of socialised medicine. Socialised medicine crowds out free market forces, homogenises healthcare, enriches government insiders, it is payed for with stolen money and anyone with any sense would never ask for it.

1) Go buy a drug in a country which has subsidization, then tell me where it's cheaper. Just because you want to believe that anything any government does is inherently evil, doesn't make it so.

2) Head up to Canada and see if medications are more scarce than they are here in the U.S. They aren't.

3) Take a look at Canada, the U.K., France, Spain, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, etc. Their populations are 100% covered by government health care. Millions in the U.S. aren't. Can you explain how 100% is considered scarce?

4) Medications are not available to anyone here who cannot afford them, despite their being plentiful at the pharmacy. When you have to decide on whether to buy your medications or feed, clothe and shelter your family, guess which wins. A decision which shouldn't be necessary, by the way.

5) People die here in the U.S. every day due to lack of health care. Do you want to know what health insurance costs here in a "free market economy"? The plan I have, which is by far not the most expensive, costs me $130.00 per month with my company paying just over $580.00. That's $710.00 per month. Now tell me, how is it that insurance companies aren't robbing from us here? Is your tax portion for health care even close to that?

I really think you should come here and experience the hell that is medical coverage before trying to say how utopian it is.

hippiebrian
16th December 2009, 21:36
I don't know Pod as Akak and Steve and Brian have come up with some beauties even more stupid than that one paragraph and continue to do so.
Just a word to the wise> read the other post and realize what I said that you CANNOT have an intelligent conversation with non-thinkers like this.
You will, as I have, become frustrated as it would be nice to have a two-sided conversation sometimes:(

Just a suggestion, if you would refrain from calling intelligent people like Steve, Akak, and myself who may disagree with you names, maybe your posts would be taken more seriously. Calling people things like stupid just makes you sound unintelligent and shuts people off from whatever point it is you may be trying to make.

JesterJay
16th December 2009, 21:39
Please stop calling coolcatjoe "unintelligent".
AND please allow him his freedom of speech.
Dangit,
JesterJay



Just a suggestion, if you would refrain from calling intelligent people like Steve, Akak, and myself who may disagree with you names, maybe your posts would be taken more seriously. Calling people things like stupid just makes you sound unintelligent and shuts people off from whatever point it is you may be trying to make.

hippiebrian
16th December 2009, 21:43
Please stop calling coolcatjoe "unintelligent".
AND please allow him his freedom of speech.
Dangit,
JesterJay


Please read the response before jumping to conclusions. I never called anyone unintelligent, I just stated that name-calling makes one sound unintelligent, a fact which I think we can all agree on.

admthrwn
16th December 2009, 22:21
Did he have the chalk board?

Yeah he had the chalk broad, and he was crying, and he was eating paste and coloring.

Glenn Beck sucks. Fox news sucks. They're hijackers of a grassroots movement started long before they gave a rats ass. These are the same people who did nothing but praise Bush and push his whole agenda and "War on Terror", spend spend spend, the military can have whatever it wants to keep us safe from the same terrorists we created.

It's all about the money boys, Fox News goes where money can be made.

Ratings Ratings Ratings!