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akak
4th December 2009, 00:38
Well, I hope this doesn't sound like an ignorant or stupid question, but one thing has been bothering me for a long time about gold and silver coins, bullion and their availability, and I just wanted to ask for any insights from others here.

If, as many have suggested, the financial and political elites really know what is in store for our economy and financial system, i.e., a crash, or even believe that there is a strong chance of a currency crisis or collapse, then why would those with the most to lose, and the most money, have not already bought up all available gold and silver? The fact that we are still able to find PM's in the market tells me that they have not done so, so my question is, why?
One would think that this would particularly be the case (precious metals having all been bought up already by the elites) if this financial crisis is a planned or engineered one.

It is this thought about precious metals that hangs over my head almost more than any other: Why is any gold and silver still available if a dollar or general fiat currency collapse is in the works?

Argyria
4th December 2009, 00:57
My thought on this is most rich people are not in on this. The government is the one causing our currency to decline by excessive spending, and they are more interested in the power than the money. They will gain considerably in power by bankrupting most of us.

The international banksters and their insider cronies aren't worried about a currency collapse because whatever new currency comes about, they will be first in line at the fountain. They will simply create money out of thin air, like they have always done. These elite own real estate and companies, things that will also hold their value in the long run. Most of the ultra rich have only a minority of their holdings in cash.

Of course, if things get bad enough, there won't be much of anything to buy, and corporations will go belly up, so that is why I think they are going to let the dollar fall gradually, they will prevent it from doing a sudden collapse.

Ringramjr1
4th December 2009, 07:55
My thoughts on this are that the elite are in the business of stealing wealth and concentrating power on the sly. They have slowly been setting us up for decades. They like to do things slowly so it goes unnoticed by the masses. Sort of like the frog in boiling water. When you're talking about a few hundred or thousand people who control all global affairs, the last thing they want to do is to trigger a true (not engineered) panic. Then all of a sudden it's 6.5 billion against very few. Even with all their technologies and armies, the elite would not be able to contain the planet's population should the people decide to rid the world of them on a moments notice. I believe the elite are arrogant, but not stupid. I think they want to continue selling this fake recovery and the concept that all is well or that all will be well in the near future. A massive gold shortage would signal just the opposite. And realistically, there are shortages of gold being reported which means that there are people in the world who realize the true nature of reality. I would continue to stack while you can.

Argyria
4th December 2009, 08:28
I think you have stated the truth from another angle than I have. Thanks for writing.

DaleFromCalgary
4th December 2009, 09:32
As far as practical availability is concerned, the sources of supply and distribution are too diffuse for any cabal to control them. There is no all-seeing cartel that can issue orders to every mine and coin dealer as to where the gold and silver must go.

Another aspect is that bullion is only a tiny fraction of the world's financial resources and assets. For all that the Beijing Put has the gold bugs atwitter, the gold reserves of China are only a few percentage points. As mentioned earlier in this thread, the banksters can game any market they choose, so they are not worried about the collapse of the FRN.

akak
4th December 2009, 14:16
Thanks for your perspectives on this situation, guys! (and gals!)

SilverSucker
4th December 2009, 14:36
Why is any gold and silver still available if a dollar or general fiat currency collapse is in the works?

Not sure if it's marketing, or if it's just that inventory has run out at the end of year, but according to the US Mint, they've suspended sales of both silver and gold American Eagles.

http://www.gold.org/news/2009/11/26/story/13518/sales_of_american_gold_eagle_coins_suspended/

TheLoneRanger
4th December 2009, 15:36
Well, I hope this doesn't sound like an ignorant or stupid question, but one thing has been bothering me for a long time about gold and silver coins, bullion and their availability, and I just wanted to ask for any insights from others here.

If, as many have suggested, the financial and political elites really know what is in store for our economy and financial system, i.e., a crash, or even believe that there is a strong chance of a currency crisis or collapse, then why would those with the most to lose, and the most money, have not already bought up all available gold and silver? The fact that we are still able to find PM's in the market tells me that they have not done so, so my question is, why?
One would think that this would particularly be the case (precious metals having all been bought up already by the elites) if this financial crisis is a planned or engineered one.

It is this thought about precious metals that hangs over my head almost more than any other: Why is any gold and silver still available if a dollar or general fiat currency collapse is in the works?

Akak I think there is a difference between a planed or engineered collapse , and one that is enevitable. You are very right.. the wealth to buy up all the PM's in the world is out there, and in some cases single individuals could certainly buy up all the silver \.

Why did the head guys at Enron and Citi and Bear Stearns and Lehmans ride their stock all the way down? Hubris maybe..Ego.. faith in themselve that they could turn it all around... Thinking that they were too rich and well situated to need a lifeboat.. to well connected that they coulld be touched by disaster...

There are several different schools of economic thought.. Keynensians truely believe deficits don't matter under these circumstances.. they can't see it coming as has been more than amply demostratd by their constant reassurances that the problems were contained and the economy was sound all the way down.

You couple a failure of imagination with blind ambitions and a college degree in a fiat orthodoxy.. and you get foks who think you make money by shorting silver.. not buying and holding it..

Look at the fight on these forums between the TA Traders and Stonghand bugs .. and technically we are all on the same side.. we all like silver.. imagine if you were pro FIAT and all you really understood was Fiat and making money by doing money tricks with derivatives... buying silver ( or gold) to them is about like you taking a major position in MBS or CDS.. why aren't you up to your eyeballs in direvatives? Same reason they ain't stacking bullion.. thats why.

Kind of like Eagles asking Fish why they don't fly and build nests in trees.

akak
4th December 2009, 15:47
Akak I think there is a difference between a planed or engineered collapse , and one that is enevitable. You are very right.. the wealth to buy up all the PM's in the world is out there, and in some cases single individuals could certainly buy up all the silver \.

Why did the head guys at Enron and Citi and Bear Stearns and Lehmans ride their stock all the way down? Hubris maybe..Ego.. faith in themselve that they could turn it all around... Thinking that they were too rich and well situated to need a lifeboat.. to well connected that they coulld be touched by disaster...

There are several different schools of economic thought.. Keynensians truely believe deficits don't matter under these circumstances.. they can't see it coming as has been more than amply demostratd by their constant reassurances that the problems were contained and the economy was sound all the way down.

You couple a failure of imagination with blind ambitions and a college degree in a fiat orthodoxy.. and you get foks who think you make money by shorting silver.. not buying and holding it..

Look at the fight on these forums between the TA Traders and Stonghand bugs .. and technically we are all on the same side.. we all like silver.. imagine if you were pro FIAT and all you really understood was Fiat and making money by doing money tricks with derivatives... buying silver ( or gold) to them is about like you taking a major position in MBS or CDS.. why aren't you up to your eyeballs in direvatives? Same reason they ain't stacking bullion.. thats why.

Kind of like Eagles asking Fish why they don't fly and build nests in trees.


LOL at that last line!

But very good answer and food for thought, LR. Much appreciated!

valerb
5th December 2009, 01:02
Well, I hope this doesn't sound like an ignorant or stupid question, but one thing has been bothering me for a long time about gold and silver coins, bullion and their availability, and I just wanted to ask for any insights from others here.

If, as many have suggested, the financial and political elites really know what is in store for our economy and financial system, i.e., a crash, or even believe that there is a strong chance of a currency crisis or collapse, then why would those with the most to lose, and the most money, have not already bought up all available gold and silver? The fact that we are still able to find PM's in the market tells me that they have not done so, so my question is, why?
One would think that this would particularly be the case (precious metals having all been bought up already by the elites) if this financial crisis is a planned or engineered one.

It is this thought about precious metals that hangs over my head almost more than any other: Why is any gold and silver still available if a dollar or general fiat currency collapse is in the works?

First off, how is the dollar going to collapse, when we are not the only country running printing presses wide open?

Secondly, why would the rest of the world want the dollar to collapse? It would have the same effect on world governments, as it would on all of us Silver bugs, if Silver collapsed! We would loose our asses in many cases, just like many world governments would. If the dollar was just a small portion or each countries reserves, it wouldn't be that big of a deal. Even if the US is really trying to debase our currency, as some believe, the rest of the world doesn't seem willing to go along. In spite of our best efforts, the dollar is still stronger today than it's low points of last year and we have done far more to destroy it since last years lows!!

Can the Euro replace it? Who knows if the Euro or the European Union will even exist in five years time. A lot of their countries are in serious trouble and with so many Germans wanting out all together, I wouldn't want to place a bet on the Euro.

As far a PM's, it is being bought up in huge quantities. We just have no way of knowing how much Gold and Silver is actually available to be purchased. We sure shouldn't try to make that guess based on retail Gold and Silver availability.

I don't follow Gold at all, just the price, but I do follow Silver. Most of the analyst mimic each other and "guess" that there is a total of one billion ounces available above ground. We are closing in on half of that total in the Silver ETF's alone. I believe it was last week or earlier this week that someone posted information that there was 450 million ounces in all Silver ETF's combined. Since that report, the Silver ETF SLV has added another six million ounce alone. Then there is the COMEX inventory, of which I believe the vast majority belong to Silver investors on the long side, not the shorts. So, between the ETF's and the COMEX, that represents a total in the neighborhood of 550 million ounces. That 550 million ounces is all in 1,000 ounce bars. So if we are to believe the one billion ounce figure, that only leaves 450 million ounces left. Unless I am misunderstanding what they mean by above ground inventory, I would have to assume that our personal stacks are included in that figure. It's estimated that American's purchase 25% of all investment Silver each year. I can't even begin to imagine how much investment Silver has been produced in this country alone in the last 50 years. Just about every Engelhard round and bar ever produced is setting in someone safe. Sure you can still find some in the coin shops, but for the most part, the bullion dealers are not selling it anymore. Johnson Matthey has produced how many hundred ounce bars a year and they just keep coming. Then we have to add in approximately 212 million ounces of A.S.E.'s. and 21 million Maple Leafs produced through 2007. How many millions of ounces have the generic mints in this country produced?

So, if we just look at the 550 million in the ETF's and COMEX, plus 212 million in ASE's and 21 million in Maple Leafs, we have accounted for 783 million ounces. If there are 212 million ounces in ASE's out there, there surely must me be double that amount in generic silver rounds and bars from all sources, including Engelhard and JM. That would put us at about 1.2 billion ounces. Now I have to think that other nations like Austria, China and Mexico have contributed a substantial number of silver rounds. Just how many mints are there around the world that are producing investment Silver products? Does anyone have any idea as to how many bullion depositories outside of COMEX there are in this country alone and how many 1,000 ounce Silver bars are stored in those vaults? Yes we had the great silver melt in 1979 and 80, but out of the hundreds of millions in Silver coins produced before that time did not get melted down. How many survivalist and plain old Silver investors are setting on a bag or two of 40% or 90% Silver coins. Is there a country in the world that did not produce Silver coins and are we the only ones saving them?

If we do not include junk Silver from around the world, I can't help but believe our above ground Silver must be at least 1.5 to 2 billion ounce. Throw in everyone's junk silver and I'm sure we can add another few hundred million ounce, minimum. Then we have the unknown factor of how much Silver is in the pipelines that keeps the Silver price depressed. So we can exclude the unknown amount of Silver in jewelry and other Silver products from any guess work here.

The BIG question is, how much generic Silver has been sold and melted down over the years?

The bottom line , the only thing that really matters is how much inventory is in that Silver pipeline, between the mints and the wholesalers, because the rest is accounted for!!!!!

By the way, my answer is yes, the wealthy have been buying precious metals and it's building up in the worlds ETF's at a very rapid rate.