Which Will Double First? Gold or Silver?

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

This question isn't mean to excite or annoy, but to see what our sentiments are at the moment.

If you were to make a side bet on either gold or silver doubling, how would you call it?

[TheLoneRanger]

?? do you mean double AGAIN ?? Gold has about doubled since early 07 and silver has about doubled since the crash of 08..

If you mean again.. silver easy

[mark2112gum]

As of today's closing, I'd say Gold...

[Ringramjr1]

My vote is for gold as well.

[MasterQ]

Interesting point of order my friends.

Why was gold relatively flat up to 2001?

We had small pockets of year over year as I pointed out in a prior post but things only really heated up in 2001!

hmm....spending....that could be it...

Can that last forever?

Can inflation be indefinite outside of the normal inflation we have been feeling for years? (aka hyperinflation)

-Q

[ryshay]

I vote silver will double before gold.

1) Gold is at an all-time high.

2) The GSR is historically high at 60+.

3) Silver is way below it's all-time high of $50.


Unless of course Kirby is right and there are fake tungsten gold bars being assayed right now....
Then gold will double, triple and quadruple...

[LETMYSILVERGO]

I Say When "they" Find Out There Is Only 1 Real Once Of Gold On The Planet & The Rest Is That Fancy French "fauh" Gold--

Folk Are Really Gonna Be Pissed, Then Trade Their Tungston For Silver.

Oh Yea !!!

[MasterQ]

I vote silver will double before gold.

1) Gold is at an all-time high.

2) The GSR is historically high at 60+.

3) Silver is way below it's all-time high of $50.


Unless of course Kirby is right and there are fake tungsten gold bars being assayed right now....
Then gold will double, triple and quadruple...

So you don't discount the fact that $50 was manipulated?

Do you remember the hunt brothers?

http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html

-Q

[Jake]

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[skijake]

Gold to 2300?
Silver to 38?
Both will happen,,,,Silver First

[What is Truth?]

This question isn't mean to excite or annoy, but to see what our sentiments are at the moment.

If you were to make a side bet on either gold or silver doubling, how would you call it?


Silver. When silver breaks $20 before gold breaks $1250 then it will be the start of it.

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

To think that, from 1990 to 1994, the spot was in the four-dollar range, premiums exempted.

Absurd!

I was asleep at the switch in those days. I thought the price was in the 25 to 35-dollar range. I did not know! But that was my gut feeling then.

Copper's over 3 dollars now, isn't it?

I, today, don't think it unreasonable that silver ought to be twenty times the price of copper.

Copper is money. Very cheap money. So is nickel.

Silver is money. Second only to gold.

I'll wager the public continues to catch on to silver.

I vote "silver."

[DaBrownsRPhat]

SILVER! That was easy. :D

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

SILVER! That was easy. :D

That's a good answer. You may put down your crayon. :p

[Gene Daniels]

considering the gold/silver ratio, it is much easier to see silver doubling than gold - although I think they both will and more. But silver will definitely be the first one across that line.

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Interesting point of order my friends.

Why was gold relatively flat up to 2001?

-Q

I argued long and hard with a credit union board member in '93 that gold was undervalued and should be bought with both hands, and all he could counter with was that I'd lose by not investing in stock.

My guess is everyone was chasing stocks, and, perhaps, gold was shorted and suppressed.

??

[MasterQ]

You haven't answered the question---I say Silver

And your the one who says no one can predict the future?

I detect a sense of hypocrisy?

-Q

[of one mine]

I agree with your assesment, At that time people were going deep in stocks. I was not into stocks but I always heared aboout it on the radio. I was only a silver coin collector back then but only bought a few at a time. Until just before the recession I started to buy I dont know what drove me at first but I now know it was instinct to survive financially. Also I had reason to believe we were going to enter hard times. Backed by biblical references I have listened to for a long time I found some were just too paralleled to be coincidence. Either way I was dead set on not wasting anymore time. Today I know we should buy heavily in AG cause the long term will pan out even if theres a sharp drop next year. I think it would only be temporary. No mater what the economy does or if the dollar fails(which I think it wont fail completely) The global industry demands will be met by investor demands at the same time driving prices even higher than previously expected. I am not one sided for silver I just know when the use of a base material mutliplies so does its value, not to mention that it is already undervalued but also in short supply for a "steady" economy. It may never be as predictable as before, but as I told steadfast on his post question to sell, stay in but sell a little if you need to. I advise all of us to do the same.I dont think that anyone is going to try to corner it like the hunt bros did.

of one mine

[ryshay]

So you don't discount the fact that $50 was manipulated?

Do you remember the hunt brothers?

http://www.buyandhold.com/bh/en/education/history/2000/hunt_bros.html

-Q

Excellent point, Q--let's talk silver manipulation!

Yeah, the Hunts manipulated long on 200m oz of silver in the 1970s.

Today, JP Morgan manipulates short 30% of world's silver production, which is about 200m oz of silver. .

Hmmm...almost the same size of position--but one is illegal, and one is legal! Hmmm.....

The Hunts oversaw Silver going from $2 in '73 to $53 in 1980. Then it crashed to $11 in that same year as the COMEX got the Hunts on the ropes from margin calls. http://www.traderslog.com/hunt-brothers.htm

Because JPM manipulates silver today about as much as the Hunt bros did in the 1970s, I wonder what the price of silver WOULD be, absent the JPM manipulation?

Lesse...$18 now with a 200M oz WITH a large 200m oz JPM short manipulation. Silver went down 5 times when the Hunts long manipuilation was removed...Maybe $18x5=$90/oz if JPM exited all short positions?

Consider also that 200m oz during the 1970s was half of the world's available silver above-ground supply.

Today, above-ground stocks of silver are much lower--not sure how much, but JPM's short is even more crippling to the silver price than the Hunts was pushing up the silver price.

$90/oz seems a ridiculously big number. But I think the point is clear--silver would be much higher in price if the CFTC would do their job and stop the manipulation of silver.

[Argyria]

Copper's over 3 dollars now, isn't it?

I, today, don't think it unreasonable that silver ought to be twenty times the price of copper.


Oh, so you think silver should be at least $60 per pound?

[Cup-of-Ruin]

Gold - $2250 - Nov. 2010

Silver - $85 - Nov. 2010

[valerb@bellsouth.net]

When I started investing in Gold and Silver, the ratio was at 75 to one. That was $300 Gold and $4 Silver. Since the late 90's, Gold has increased by 280%, while Silver has increased by 361%.

Short of a catastrophe like finding out there are millions of gold clad bars out there, I believe Silver will double much sooner than Gold.

[MasterQ]

Excellent point, Q--let's talk silver manipulation!

Yeah, the Hunts manipulated long on 200m oz of silver in the 1970s.

Today, JP Morgan manipulates short 30% of world's silver production, which is about 200m oz of silver. .

Hmmm...almost the same size of position--but one is illegal, and one is legal! Hmmm.....

The Hunts oversaw Silver going from $2 in '73 to $53 in 1980. Then it crashed to $11 in that same year as the COMEX got the Hunts on the ropes from margin calls. http://www.traderslog.com/hunt-brothers.htm

Because JPM manipulates silver today about as much as the Hunt bros did in the 1970s, I wonder what the price of silver WOULD be, absent the JPM manipulation?

Lesse...$18 now with a 200M oz WITH a large 200m oz JPM short manipulation. Silver went down 5 times when the Hunts long manipuilation was removed...Maybe $18x5=$90/oz if JPM exited all short positions?

Consider also that 200m oz during the 1970s was half of the world's available silver above-ground supply.

Today, above-ground stocks of silver are much lower--not sure how much, but JPM's short is even more crippling to the silver price than the Hunts was pushing up the silver price.

$90/oz seems a ridiculously big number. But I think the point is clear--silver would be much higher in price if the CFTC would do their job and stop the manipulation of silver.

Excellent reasoning.

When I started trading and got my first spank by manipulation I was thinking how ridiculous.

The fact the manipulation exists for whatever legal/illegal/immoral reasons is why I am constantly cautious when I see huge run ups in silver, let alone large breaks.

I believe you just helped to shine the light for many here why cheerleading can get you into alot of losses.

Great great explanation, keep up the great work!!!!!

-Q

[ccjoe]

Excellent reasoning.

When I started trading and got my first spank by manipulation I was thinking how ridiculous.

The fact the manipulation exists for whatever legal/illegal/immoral reasons is why I am constantly cautious when I see huge run ups in silver, let alone large breaks.

I believe you just helped to shine the light for many here why cheerleading can get you into alot of losses.

Great great explanation, keep up the great work!!!!!

-Q

Touche but holders like me and most others have to have some cartwheels:)

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Oh, so you think silver should be at least $60 per pound?

Sorry, meant Ag @ 60/oz. No rationale to substantiate it, either. :oops:

Except my gut. Maybe because of what jewellry costs? Looking at jewellry over the years, I never would have guessed that silver was ever under 5 bucks an ounce.

Heck, even copper at 3 seems cheap.

[ryshay]

Excellent reasoning.

When I started trading and got my first spank by manipulation I was thinking how ridiculous.

The fact the manipulation exists for whatever legal/illegal/immoral reasons is why I am constantly cautious when I see huge run ups in silver, let alone large breaks.

I believe you just helped to shine the light for many here why cheerleading can get you into alot of losses.

Great great explanation, keep up the great work!!!!!

-Q

Thanks--we should all be wary of the JPM short manipulation. Instead of covering their shorts in the face of this silver rally, JPM has elected to actually increase their short position. It shows they have no fear of losing money on this short position--they know they will either be right or they will get a bailout from the USGovt. Isn't it nice to be a Federal Reserve shareholder like JPM?

So why invest in silver at all? The shorts are losing control.

The paper short game JPM is playing has met its match: a physical silver bull market. When China allowed its citizens to invest in silver, and made it easy for them, and advertises it on state-run TV, it created the beginning of the end for the short manipulation. Physical demand will overrun the paper shorts. I don't know how long it will take. Maybe JPM can engineer one last crash in the silver price and cover its shorts. But even JPM is not strong enough to overpower a gold/silver bull market in the face of worldwide currency debasement.

[SilverLite]

Silver. It has already doubled (since it fell earlier this year) and will probably double again early next year.

[Ardent Listener]

Excellent reasoning.

When I started trading and got my first spank by manipulation I was thinking how ridiculous.

The fact the manipulation exists for whatever legal/illegal/immoral reasons is why I am constantly cautious when I see huge run ups in silver, let alone large breaks.



-Q

I agree MasterQ, don't count your profits with silver untill either you sell it or the manipulation machine comes to a halt for good.

[Jake]

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[skijake]

I agree MasterQ, don't count your profits with silver untill either you sell it or the manipulation machine comes to a halt for good.

Nice to see ya Ardent.:cool:
I'm not sure how selling now for a paper profit puts you ahead of the game.
For instance, a silver purchase in 2000 at roughly $6 an ounce came at a time when the dollar was trading at 120.
Cashing that ounce of Silver in now might get you $18 but at a much devalued dollar trading at about 75 today.
I would only "cash out" for paper profit right now as a means to an end to purchase something I needed/wanted/was severely under valued.
I would not "cash out" to load up on more dollars without an exit plan.
I will need more than 18 an ounce to make this a long term "profitable" trade.
Just saying,,,,;)

[MasterQ]

Did I say I predict Silver will double before gold?
I answered the author of this thread with a GUESS
I said...Answer the Question Q---I say Silver.

How about answering the question instead of posting all your charts about "this, that and the other" bollinger band

Here...I'll make it easy for you:

MasterQ GUESSES that ___________ will Double before ______________

Fill in the blanks...Any fifth grader could do that with his eyes closed
Here...watch this vid:
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/LAyMqe7ZzMU/default.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LAyMqe7ZzMU&feature=fvst

Oh gee Jake I was messing with you.

You are a touchy fella.

Guess the truce between us runs along a fault line.

blah

-Q

[Relayer]

http://jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/November1909Gold-Dan.pdf

[JesterJay]

I'm getting sick of your "non-answer" too.
Not that my opinion matters.
Tremors!
JesterJay



Oh gee Jake I was messing with you.

You are a touchy fella.

Guess the truce between us runs along a fault line.

blah

-Q

[MasterQ]

I'm getting sick of your "non-answer" too.
Not that my opinion matters.
Tremors!
JesterJay

Well outside of the comments I felt were necessary I think this thread is a moot point.

Everyone knows that as long as both go up, silver exponentially travels along gold.

Why wouldn't silver double first?

Maybe I thought this thread was a rhetorical question. Sorry folks, Q thought too deep on this one.

Carry on!

-Q

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Well outside of the comments I felt were necessary I think this thread is a moot point.

Everyone knows that as long as both go up, silver exponentially travels along gold.

Why wouldn't silver double first?

Maybe I thought this thread was a rhetorical question. Sorry folks, Q thought too deep on this one.

Carry on!

-Q

Moot?

Why?

[Ardent Listener]

Nice to see ya Ardent.:cool:
I'm not sure how selling now for a paper profit puts you ahead of the game.
For instance, a silver purchase in 2000 at roughly $6 an ounce came at a time when the dollar was trading at 120.
Cashing that ounce of Silver in now might get you $18 but at a much devalued dollar trading at about 75 today.
I would only "cash out" for paper profit right now as a means to an end to purchase something I needed/wanted/was severely under valued.
I would not "cash out" to load up on more dollars without an exit plan.
I will need more than 18 an ounce to make this a long term "profitable" trade.
Just saying,,,,;)


Nice to talk to you again too. Of course you are correct, but most new physical precious metal holders are thinking about the short term status of their investments. In other words, "Is my investment worth more or less FRNs today than yesterday?"

I'm just trying to prevent a new investor PM panic if or when we see a short term down turn in the precious metals markets. Nothing more dangerous right now than for a physical precious metals holder to do than not be ready for a shot term down turn of the PM markets.

As I get older I worry more about the younger investor and want them not to get the idea that this market will only go up over the short term.

[ccjoe]

Nice to talk to you again too. Of course you are correct, but most new physical precious metal holders are thinking about the short term status of their investments. In other words, "Is my investment worth more or less FRNs today than yesterday?"

I'm just trying to prevent a new investor PM panic if or when we see a short term down turn in the precious metals markets. Nothing more dangerous right now than for a physical precious metals holder to do than not be ready for a shot term down turn of the PM markets.

As I get older I worry more about the younger investor and want them not to get the idea that this market will only go up over the long term.

Unless suddenly there is a massive silver discovery and 3 billion Asians decide they don't like silver after 6000 years, I guess silver has to just go up. There is no other possibility that I can think of for the young investor who we're trying to help?

[Jake]

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[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Well outside of the comments I felt were necessary I think this thread is a moot point.

Everyone knows that as long as both go up, silver exponentially travels along gold.

Why wouldn't silver double first?

Maybe I thought this thread was a rhetorical question. Sorry folks, Q thought too deep on this one.
Carry on!

-Q

Maybe not so deeply, at least from what you've explained. There's good reason to believe that gold will double before silver. I can't assume that the past is going to be repeated for silver. There's a lot going on; the strangest opinions are coming from all sides of the camp.

Jake: Maybe you two ought to get a room and sort it all out.

[Ardent Listener]

Unless suddenly there is a massive silver discovery and 3 billion Asians decide they don't like silver after 6000 years, I guess silver has to just go up. There is no other possibility that I can think of for the young investor who we're trying to help?

Yes ccjoe, it is going to go up. But it is not going to always just go up. Like you, I'm bullish on silver. But I'm not going to tell new buyers that we will not see it take a step or two back from time to time. The market is still being manipulated and until it isn't we will continue to see it take its hits. But over the long term silver is going to shine.

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Yes ccjoe, it is going to go up. But it is not going to always just go up. Like you, I'm bullish on silver. But I'm not going to tell new buyers that we will not see it take a step or two back from time to time. The market is still being manipulated and until it isn't we will continue to see it take its hits. But over the long term silver is going to shine.

Well said. Consider, too, how well silver has done despite manipulation!

I think any investment vehicle denominated in US dollars is being swayed. Each and every market.

Memo to Pres Wilson: You hired them. Was this a perpetual contract? If not, under what circumstances did you determine that we should fire them?

Thank you in the past, Sir.

[ccjoe]

Yes ccjoe, it is going to go up. But it is not going to always just go up. Like you, I'm bullish on silver. But I'm not going to tell new buyers that we will not see it take a step or two back from time to time. The market is still being manipulated and until it isn't we will continue to see it take its hits. But over the long term silver is going to shine.

Arg This week proves you are RIGHT!
I was extremely let down this week expecting rockets after the big upsurge:(

[Ardent Listener]

Arg This week proves you are RIGHT!
I was extremely let down this week expecting rockets after the big upsurge:(

The dollar goes up, gold sets a new record high anyway and you are let down? Oh, maybe you mean silver. Don't fret, it takes a lot of rocket fuel to get all the heavy silver to the moon but once it's there it sure it going to shine! :D

[skijake]

Arg This week proves you are RIGHT!
I was extremely let down this week expecting rockets after the big upsurge:(

No worries Joe.
Silver makes me nervous when it goes crazy because traditionally that's when it's about to crash.
6% up for the week,,,,I'll take that any time, Steady as she goes.:cool: