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Kelly
30th April 2008, 17:11
I thought you might be interested in this Courage Campaign petition I just signed, asking Speaker Pelosi to support legislation effectively banning Blackwater from Iraq. We need to stop Blackwater before they use their mercenary profits from Iraq to set up a base of operations in San Diego just three blocks from the Mexican border.

If we can convince Speaker Pelosi to stop Blackwater from privatizing national security with our tax dollars, it could be the beginning of the end for Blackwater in Iraq. And California.

Please join me in asking Speaker Pelosi -- California's most powerful member of Congress -- to take leadership by supporting the "Stop Outsourcing Security Act" as soon as possible.

Will you join me?

http://www.couragecampaign.org/BanBlackwater

Kelly
30th April 2008, 17:51
For those who don't understand who and what Blackwater is, or what outsourcing "national security" to private militias like Blackwater means, here's a couple of good links…

http://blog.wired.com/defense/2007/09/blackwater-back.html

http://www.amnestyusa.org/annualreport/2006/overview.html

Kelly
2nd May 2008, 12:22
I know most folks don't understand my concern about Blackwater Inc., but it's based on the fact that should this government ever declare martial law for any reason, corporate mercenary armies like Blackwater are very likely to get the government contract to "keep the peace," and these guys are not only known for shooting first and asking questions later, their abject abuse of prisoners of war taken in Iraq is indeed legendary.

I just received the following update and want to pass it on…

***
Just 48 hours after we asked you to join us in waging a two-front battle against Blackwater -- on the California/Mexico border and in the halls of Congress -- 8,210 people have signed on to our letter to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, asking her to support the "Stop Outsourcing Security Act" in Congress.

We need to keep up the momentum before Tuesday's 9 a.m. deadline. If you have signed our letter to Speaker Pelosi, please forward this message to your friends. If you haven't signed it, please click here today to add your signature to the delivery we'll make to the Speaker's offices in Washington D.C. and San Francisco on Tuesday:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/BanBlackwater

Meanwhile, we just sent a message to the citizens of San Diego asking them to sign on to a letter to Mayor Jerry Sanders. The letter from Jess Durfee, Chair of the San Diego County Democratic Party, asks Mayor Sanders to launch a full investigation into the false pretenses Blackwater used to obtain a city permit, thus evading public scrutiny.

The only way we are going to kick Blackwater out of Iraq and out of California, for good, is if we build up the pressure on Blackwater, nationally and locally.

Please join our two-front battle now by signing on to our letter to Speaker Pelosi before Tuesday:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/BanBlackwater

We've beaten Blackwater before and -- with your help -- we can beat them again.

Rick Jacobs
Chair

P.S. You can read the full text of Jess Durfee's email to San Diegans about Blackwater and Mayor Sanders below.

----- ORIGINAL MESSAGE -----
FROM: Jess Durfee, for the Courage Campaign
SUBJECT: Mayor Sanders: Expose Blackwater's bait-and-switch

Dear Friend,

My name is Jess Durfee. I am the Chair of the San Diego County Democratic Party.

The Courage Campaign asked me to write this message to the people of San Diego about Blackwater's shocking new plan to build a base of operations in Otay Mesa, just three blocks from the Mexican border.

False pretenses. Bait-and-switch. Trojan horse. Take your pick of descriptions to explain Blackwater securing a city permit for its "vocational training school" -- a "school" that won't be open to the general public.

That's simply Blackwater's way of doing business. By using trojan-horse corporate shells like "Southwestern Law Enforcement" and "Raven Development Group" to obtain their permit, Blackwater is using false pretenses to evade public scrutiny.

The worst part? The "Blackwater bait-and-switch": Using Iraq profits to subsidize a base of operations in San Diego with millions of your tax dollars.

Enough is enough. It's time for San Diego's elected officials to take a stand and kick Blackwater out of San Diego County for good. If the people of Potrero can do it, so can we.

The one man standing in the way of Blackwater is Mayor Jerry Sanders. He has the power -- under San Diego's "strong mayor" system -- to launch a full investigation into the false pretenses Blackwater used to obtain a "vocational trade school" permit for their 61,600-square-foot facility.

I have written a letter to Mayor Sanders that asks him to take action immediately. To get the Mayor's attention, I am urging the citizens of San Diego to join me in signing it no later than TUESDAY AT 9 AM.

The sooner you sign on and spread the word to your friends, family and neighbors, the more signatures we'll have when we present this petition to Mayor Sanders on Tuesday:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/SandersLetter

We all know that Blackwater is the "Enron" of private security contractors, more than willing to exploit Californians in the pursuit of profit. Do we really want these notorious mercenaries as our neighbors, bait-and-switching San Diego with an eye to eventually landing border security contracts?

As I wrote to Mayor Sanders in the letter linked above:

"This isn't the first time that Blackwater has tried to hold itself above the law, and it probably won't be the last. As ABC News recently reported, 'Blackwater has been accused of tax fraud, improper use of force, arms trafficking and overbilling connected to its work for the U.S. government in Iraq. A grand jury, federal prosecutors and congressional investigators are all currently probing allegations against the company.'"

The letter goes on to ask Mayor Sanders to stand up for San Diego so we can stand up to Blackwater before they set up shop a stone's throw from the Tijuana International Airport. Please sign our letter today and ask your friends, family and neighbors to sign it as well before TUESDAY AT 9 AM:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/SandersLetter

As many Democrats, Republicans and Independents agree, Blackwater is undermining our troops in Iraq and our security at home. And now it appears to be using false pretenses to establish a dangerous foothold inside our community to privatize our border security operations. The only way we'll know is if our Mayor launches a full investigation immediately.
It's time for Mayor Sanders to stand up for San Diegans by standing up against Blackwater.

Please sign this letter to the Mayor today and tell your friends. Before it's too late.

Thank you for everything you are doing to make sure San Diego continues to be "America's Finest City".

Jess Durfee
Chair

Richard
3rd May 2008, 02:57
Kelly,

Blackwater is a contractor of government service, namely providing the service of added police and military personnel and training. This is one of many services that the government has contracted out to the private sector.

And perhaps now you can see why I hold that government services of any kind should be either nonexistent or very limited in application.

Example: Healthcare.The insurance companies are to healthcare what Blackwater (and other contracted companies...) are to the military.

Example: The Federal Reserve is thier contracted issuer of money.

Why are they contracting out so much to private firms?

To answer the call for smaller government that's been taking place for years.

Ie, people don't like the fact that big government, even though that's what they asked (and continue to ask) for over the decades, because it costs too much and never efficiently managed.

But even contracting it out to the private sectore doesn't make the function of government power and it's ineffiencies disappear... I mean really! Does where it gets it's worker matter or is it the policy itself?

And once those private parties are given a government fucntion, with all it's powers that we have given it, then why expect the results to be favorable?

What I find strange is that you would have corporations taxed, but not realize that by outsourcing to so many private parties, they gain a status of either paying less tax or none at all. This has been going on for years now, and is not a modern day phenomenon. Contracting out to private firms is how the government "shrinks" itself. The alternative is to discontiue it's most of it's many services.

Blackwater is just one of many flowers of the entire weed. It's root is an overage of government services. And overage of government services has created too much money (because they operate sheltered from taxes?). Too much money has created all the problems and chaos today.

See the forest, not the trees Kelly. To be a provider of as much as the governments are demanded to provide, they have to increase their power until it's absolute. Past that point, it gets just plain silly. As I said in other posts, such silliness would have us treat two alike things as different so that a trade could take place.

And would that it could end within the borders of our nation. No, at this point the dollar is the reserve currency in so many nations now.
They have much riding on it as well. And that money is printed up all because people don't want to face life without government services of any kind.

It's an epidemic of neuroticism. People want to be helpless, people want to be lead, they want assurances in life that NO ONE can possibly fulfill. NWO? There's no need for NWO. We're quite capable of ruining our lives and our freedoms without it. But it is a good metaphor. Indeed, as the dollar is a universal, representing nothing in particular, invisible in it's destructions and manipulations as the "head of the NWO" is.

As for the sick and elderly...

We're all destined for that outcome. Even if one could live to be 1000or more without any apparent sign of aging, the chances of sustaining a crippling/killing injury is all but certain. There is no perfect set of genes that will protect a person from failure.

We're all no better or worse off than another person is.

Does it make sense, then, to try and stop these things even though it means robbing another poor and sick and/or retired person?

If so, then the outcome is cannibalism of one sort or another. Even if we kept our glues glued to the doings of our government, that would be the result. Even if we had more eyes and were spider-people that did nothing but keep an eye on the government... that would be the result just as it the natural result of falling off a cliff from the want of a bridge would result in a fall.

And that's the simple truth.

The only legit function of a governing body is to protect equally the natural/God-given rights of each of it' citizens, that off : The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

With that being the only purpose of government, to protect those three rights, we are ALL equally powerful and important to our government. Letting market forces prevail, which are in the hands of no one nor ever can be, makes us each as infinitely/uncertainly wealthy as the next person.

Which illustrates a very good point about how our governments are today: In seeking favors and protection, we surrendur to them the power of the market, which is everywhere and is infinitely wealthy and powerful, into their hands. We need only ask them to provide the money, initially, and the rest follows in turn. THEY become powerful and wealthy while everyone else surrendurs their natural rights and the power of the market to their price-fxing ways (this is nessecary if they are to provide a money, for markets provide them and the resulting wealth naturally; no policy or monetary unit is nessecary).

But since money is anything, and wealth is the disparity between two things in a trade, the monetary unit fails because IT is "understood" to be the price AND the purchasing power. Therefore, to provide a monetary unit that "works" for everyone is to assume all value of the market into that unit. And since there is no wealth when comparing something to itself...

Nihilism can be the only result. The sound of one hand clapping.

Instead of realize the lesson, they just tamper with the idea some more, because it is the stupid and human thing to do, and the problem only gets worse.

And that is why silver is ridiculously low. All ratios are off in the market because we insist on money being defined as s single unit, as opposed to ANY unit. We also insist that the wealth be self-contained in that unit, which is quite impossible.

Once that begins to take effect, then people suffer one or many shortages of one nature or another. So then they beg of the government to do something about it, and what evil greedy bastard would dare think about money when Something Bad is happening?

And because that error is made, the problem is never solved. The result is that prices get higher as our human idea of money is challenged by reality (which is infinitely powerful and wealthy...).

In my experiences, Kelly, I have found that the first thing to question is not one's outside "leaders", but one's very notions as to the nature of things. One must keep always in mind that reality will deliver whatever is asked of it. To surrendur the power of money to the single price-fixing unit results in an impossible means of trade in which someone must be dunked at the expense of another for the money to "work".

Mistrust of the government is only the first step. Now trace the feedback further to it's point of origin; you will correct no errors otherwise.

Kelly
3rd May 2008, 07:01
Richard, the intent of this thread was to alert people to the specific dangers inherant in Blackwater Inc., and that danger is real indeed.

These people are getting the contracts from the government to perform roles that have traditionally gone to people in military service. The REASON the government has outsourced military functions to Blackwater is because Blackwater is NOT subject to ANY of the rules and regulations that govern military behavior. Blackwater is not subject to the rules of the Geneva Convention. They can torture prisoners and kill civilians all they want to and there is no senatorial oversight committee that can stop them because Blackwater falls through the cracks when it comes to the rules governing what is and what is not allowable.

Like the CIA, Blackwater has a carte blanche to do what it wants to do. The government pays them millions and millions of dollars annually. It may be in the billions by now; I haven't looked recently. I read an article once that stated the average Blackwater personell recieved $450,000 annually for their duties. Personally, I'd like to know why in the hell our wounded come home from Iraq and have to fight to get proper care, or the widows and children of those killed in war are left with next to nothing to survive on, while mercenaries under government contract are not only above the law, but are getting paid at least ten times more for their services than anybody who joins one of the military branches is.

The intent of this thread was not to discuss the whole kit and caboodle of the "laws of everything." The intent of this thread was to STOP BLACKWATER. In the event that Napoleon Bush or one of his successors ever declares martial law, believe me, Blackwater is the LAST group you want enforcing the edicts of "homeland security."

I've got a son living in California who DOES NOT want Blackwater operating in his state, and I don't blame him. So, why don't you just sign the petition? Please? The last day anybody can sign that petition is this coming Tuesday.

I don't know how to fix all the problems you talk about all at once. My mind does not work that way. But I do believe we can fix SOME of the problems, but in order to do that, we need to address them one at a time. We've got to kick the **** out of the way first, before we can go to work on some of the other problems you addressed in your post.

And like the Federal Reserve Banks, the Elitists, globalist corporations and the CFR , Blackwater is DEFINATELY on my **** list!

Drumblebum
3rd May 2008, 14:22
I agree 100% with the idea that Blackwater is a menace. They have proven themselves to be thugs and murderers answerable to no one. I agree totally that they must be stopped.

I'm not sure, however, that this petition is going to get much support in San Diego.

I lived in SD for a few years(1998 - 2003). I have never seen so much support for the war, the military, and for would-be dictators like GWB concentrated in one place in my life. That is one place where the new, special brand of "patriotism" has lost very little of its appeal since 2001.

If it has to do with force, or "getting the bad guy" (even if the bad guy is your neighbor Bob), the people of San Diego tend to be all for it. Martial law and dictatorship doesn't seem to bother them in the least.

I hope this petition has a positive effect, but I've also come to the realization that the government knows they can ignore the will of the people. They could care less about a petition, or a rally, or a demonstration, or whatever.

I signed the petition, but I'm not holding my breath. Pelosi has demonstrated her true loyalties in the past... I doubt this issue will prove any different.

Kelly
4th May 2008, 09:02
Drumblebum, at least we know that we've tried. There are a whole lot of people in California right now fighting Blackwater tooth and nail. I suspect if anybody is successful, it's going to be because people at the state and local level figure out how to stop them. However, the petition you signed isn't all that doomed to fail either. That petition was about stopping the outsourcing of roles that have been traditionally given to the various military branches. I haven't read the entire bill that they are talking about yet, but it could be that bill also includes the intent to stop outsourcing any of our military budget to foreign nations. If so, that bill might just pass, as people in congress are quite upset because the contract for air transport vehicles was given to a company from France rather than Boeing which is going to put tens of thousands of Americans out of work.

Blackwater may not be the only militant group we've got to worry about either. I just ran into the info on "Infraguard" and it doesn't look good.

Now Homeland security and the FBI has given corporate personel the go ahead to "shoot to kill" WHEN (not if) martial law is declared...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bDX0CuuRYDI#

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ptRiC3Jq4VU

Kelly
4th May 2008, 09:37
Nope, I'm wrong. Here is a summery of the Bill the Fight Blackwater petition is about...

The following summary is provided by the Congressional Research Service, which is a nonpartisan government entity that serves Congress and is run by the Library of Congress. The summary is taken from the official website THOMAS.

11/7/2007--Introduced.

Stop Outsourcing Security Act - Directs the Secretary of State to ensure that only government personnel provide security services at U.S. diplomatic or consular missions in Iraq.

Requires the President to report to Congress on the status of planning for the use of Government and military personnel instead of private contractors for mission critical or emergency essential functions by January 1, 2009, in all conflict zones where Congress has authorized the use of force.

Authorizes Congress access to contracts and task orders in excess of $5 million entered into by the Department of Defense (DOD), the Department of State, the Department of the Interior, and the United States Agency for International Development (USAID) during the period beginning October 1, 2001, and ending on the last day of the month during which this Act is enacted for work to be performed in Iraq and Afghanistan. Requires certain reports to Congress regarding such contracts.

Drumblebum
4th May 2008, 14:53
Blackwater may not be the only militant group we've got to worry about either. I just ran into the info on "Infraguard" and it doesn't look good.

Now Homeland security and the FBI has given corporate personel the go ahead to "shoot to kill" WHEN (not if) martial law is declared...



Heard about Infraguard.

Just frickin' SPLENDID.

How is this not fascism again?

Kelly
4th May 2008, 15:22
Oh, it's fascist as all get out! This country is doing exactly what Nazi Germany began doing as Hitler rose to power and most people really don't have a clue this is going on.

I am not sure how we successfully fight it; I only know that we must.

I look at this country I grew up believing in so emphatically, and it's like the hand of evil has descended over it and now holds Washington DC in it's clutches.

Richard
5th May 2008, 19:19
After much reading on the matter I decided to sign the petition. Hope it was in time, but it said it took.

Oh and... I wouldn't be too afraid of these guys. In my reading about them on various sites? Seems they've lost quite a few of thier own to some (imo) rather stupid and wreckless mistakes that no professional military would make. That's why got a lot of lawsuits on their hands, from the families of the deceased.

Kelly
5th May 2008, 22:31
That's why got a lot of lawsuits on their hands, from the families of the deceased.

Good! I hope the get the book thrown at them. I've seen a couple of the wives interviewed on TV and what they had to go through was criminal.

Thank you for signing that petition. I appreciate it a bunch.

Richard
6th May 2008, 18:13
Good! I hope the get the book thrown at them. I've seen a couple of the wives interviewed on TV and what they had to go through was criminal. Thank you for signing that petition. I appreciate it a bunch.

Definately agree. I understand that being a security guard, esp in a country like Iraq is risky but they're carrying on like a military operation. At least in action, but not competence.

And that makes me wonder something... While the head of the corporation has plans, as eidenced that BW is doing things way beyond "security work", do his grunts know? I mean, if these guys got into the gig thinking it was just security work... Would they, if called, actually hold a town under martial law if ordered to? For that matter, how many of them are US citizens? I know many of them aren't but there must be some US citizens among them. Hmm...


... but it's [Blackwater based on the fact that should this government ever declare martial law for any reason, corporate mercenary armies like Blackwater are very likely to get the government contract to "keep the peace,"...

They're about, iirc, 20,000 strong; they couldn't hold down even just one large city with that number. That's why I said town, above. I mean afterall our troops in Iraq number how many tens of thousands into the 100,000's and they struggle to keep the peace? That's not to say, though, that a massive merger couln't take place among the other mercenary companies that exist...

Which boomarangs me right back to my orginal point about roots and branches: While your rep and perhaps others are busy focused on a single entity, they could very easily get the money they need from the govt to merge with other companies. It is, afterall, a corporation and corporations merge all the time.

Along the same lines, the same error...

Here in Chicago, gang violence has been up in recent weeks. Mayor Daley thinks a curfew and whining about guns will solve the problem. Of course the real issue is that people are spending less money, therefore the gangs are fighting more over turf to gain a bigger part of the distribution that remains. But Daley doesn't understand that; the city is repeating the Al Capone days, and he's just busy rallying against guns.

I just hope the petition against BW does more than prevent them from operating in CA.

Kelly
7th May 2008, 03:58
Richard, from what I could gather a whole lot of Blackwater personell are very highly trained. Their main training camp is in the South; I think it was North Carolina if I remember right. And primarily, they seem to be recruiting people who have already been in the military before. I suspect that they are recruiting people who might otherwise become military lifers because they like the gig, but opt out for Blackwater instead because the pay is so much better.

Also Blackwater is not subject to any of the laws that govern military practices. They can kill civilians without cause and torture prisoners and there are no laws to date that prevent a private militia on contract with the government from doing that. I suspect that inevitably, Blackwater draws the kind of person that really gets off on the "blood lust" thing; guys that actually love the act of killing. My generation saw a lot of that happen during the war with Viet Nam. Some guys simply go way beyond the call of duty and it's because killing really excites them in some sort of primative way.

This is what makes Blackwater so dangerous; if martial law is ever declared in this country, and FEMA puts Blackwater in charge of policing the citizens, we won't be dealing with ordinary servicemen. The Blackwater people are above the law, and when you have people who love to kill and are above the law enforcing martial law, I'd say that's something we all need to be concerned about.

The petition we signed was in support of the Bill before congress that demands that the government stop outsourcing military objectives to private contractors like Blackwater operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's it! There was absolutely nothing in that bill that said anything about Blackwater's roll in the United States under contract to FEMA in an emergency situation (like Katrina) or should martial law ever be declared.

This is another one of those "write your senators and representitives" things, and we need to do it now because there is no telling what the government is going to do. They certainly seem to be planning on declaring martial law at some point in the future, and believe me, if they do, you don't want the Blackwater Boys beating on your door. Nobody does.

Kelly
7th May 2008, 18:30
Here is the latest update I've recieved from the folks fighting Blackwater, This is actually very interesting because it prooves that signing petitions does indeed have an impact! We might learn something from these folks and apply some of the same principals in our push to stop price fixing in the commodities market.

When we ask you to take action, before sending a message to our members, our team always discusses one crucial question:

Will signing a Courage Campaign online petition actually make a difference?

The answer, again and again, is:

Yes!

After we asked our members in San Diego to sign a letter from Jess Durfee (Chair, San Diego County Democratic Party) asking Mayor Jerry Sanders to investigate the false pretenses Blackwater used to obtain a permit for its "vocational trade school" on the border, 2,660 people signed on in just a few days -- a number cited by the San Diego Union-Tribune.

Congressman Bob Filner (D-San Diego) sent a letter of his own to the Republican mayor as well, asking Sanders to join him in "preventing Blackwater's entrance into our community."

The result: Contrary to concerns that this Republican mayor would ignore Blackwater, Mayor Sanders has announced that he will launch an investigation into Blackwater's permit, starting immediately and ending on May 23.

We can block Blackwater from building a base of operations three blocks from the Mexican border. But to do it, we need you to sign another petition today. This time, we want the people of California to let Mayor Sanders know that -- when it comes to Blackwater -- he is "California's Mayor" now. The danger from Blackwater does not end at the San Diego city limits. And it certainly will not end with the conclusion of this investigation.

When it comes to the threat to Californians that is Blackwater, we are ALL citizens of San Diego. No matter where you live, please sign this letter from the Courage Campaign now, asking Mayor Sanders to stand up for Californians against Blackwater today. We will deliver your petitions to the Mayor, Senators Feinstein and Boxer, and Congressman Filner:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/MayorSanders

When you sign our online petitions, your action makes a difference, time and time again:

33,589 people signed the "Count Every Vote" petition in the days following Super Tuesday, after tens of thousands of Los Angeles County voters were disenfranchised by a flawed "double bubble" ballot. As the Los Angeles Times highlighted in a front-page article, the Courage Campaign uncovered the ballot flaw and then leveraged your signatures and the threat of a lawsuit to force the Registrar to count 47,153 ballots previously discarded. The best news? The double-bubble ballot is now history, junked so that this will never happen again.

11,210 people signed our only "No Dirty Tricks" petition in 2007, launching our online organizing campaign to kill the Republican "dirty trick" ballot initiative to steal 20 Electoral College votes for the Republican presidential nominee. This initiative eventually collapsed due to withering public criticism and lack of funds.

43,783 people have signed our Blackwater petitions since we initially launched our first Blackwater campaign in April, 2007. The result: People-powered pressure led by heroic activists in San Diego County and across California forced Blackwater to abandon its first attempt to build a mercenary base in Potrero, just a few miles from the Mexican border.

Now, with your signature, we can block Blackwater's second attempt to build a base of operations in California. No matter where you live, please sign this letter now, asking Mayor Sanders to stand up for Californians against Blackwater today, and we will deliver it to the Mayor, Senators Feinstein and Boxer, and Congressman Filner:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/MayorSanders

We have the attention of Mayor Sanders now. And, if we can gather enough signatures before the investigation ends on May 23, it's possible that your people-powered pressure will help convince Mayor Sanders to protect San Diego -- and California -- from Blackwater.

Your friends, family and neighbors may care about stopping these mercenaries from setting up shop in California. Please forward this message at least five of your friends today and ask them to join us before it's too late. As we've seen before, it could make a big difference.

Thank you for everything you are doing to help the Courage Campaign make 2008 a new era for progressive politics in California.

Rick Jacobs
Chair

P.S. 11,657 people have signed our petition to Speaker Nancy Pelosi, asking her to support Rep. Jan Schakowsky's "Stop Outsourcing Security Act" that would effectively ban Blackwater from Iraq and Afghanistan. An identical bill in the Senate has been co-sponsored by Senator Hillary Clinton.

Due to the welcome news that Mayor Sanders is launching an investigation of Blackwater, we are keeping the petition to Speaker Pelosi open for signatures. If you haven't signed it yet, please take just a minute to let Speaker Pelosi know that Californians expect her to take a stand today:

http://www.couragecampaign.org/BanBlackwater

Trvlr45
8th May 2008, 03:09
I signed the petition. The last thing I want is a bunch of "mercs" running around here in America. Eventually, they'll end up with the same protections the IRS has and the same protections they are now talking about giving to the drug companies. You can't sue them for stealing or killing you. Just what we need!

It's a shame the average person who thinks the Patriot Act was written on September 12th and is there to protect them doesn't understand everything that is in it. It literally legalizes a secret police force and I don't want Blackwater sliming around in the dark in my country abusing the Patriot Act. We already have federal and state agencies doing that.

Trvlr45
8th May 2008, 03:12
Which boomarangs me right back to my orginal point about roots and branches: While your rep and perhaps others are busy focused on a single entity, they could very easily get the money they need from the govt to merge with other companies. It is, afterall, a corporation and corporations merge all the time.

Yeah, Pinkerton Security and Blackwater. A match made in hell!

Trvlr45
8th May 2008, 03:20
I must also add that I truly loathe Nancy Pelosi. That women may be the most powerful women in Congress but she's a menace to our economy and a criminal to boot.

It is no wonder she made the top 10 most corrupt politicians last year on Judicial Watch's "Most Corrupt Politicians List". You couldn't find a more un-qualified person to lead the Congress if you spent a million years looking!

JEEZ! Maybe, just maybe, she'll actually get something done that actually benefits this country. Her problem is that she's a communist and just too stupid to know it. It must be that college degree from the People's Republic of Conneticut.

Richard
8th May 2008, 12:30
I signed the petition. The last thing I want is a bunch of "mercs" running around here in America. Eventually, they'll end up with the same protections the IRS has and the same protections they are now talking about giving to the drug companies. You can't sue them for stealing or killing you. Just what we need!

You know Trvlr, I recall reading about how the ATF was using their compound in NC. Or was it SC? I forget. Anyway, someone commented in another forum that an ATF raid would be... Well, right! If they're pals...

Which is something I wanted to say in my last posts. Take note, Kelly. BW is just one weed in the whole garden and that's why I'd rather the whole thing was just thrown out. All the same though, good luck to your rep in dealing the dent.

Kelly
8th May 2008, 13:35
Trvlr45, thanks for signing. You brought up an important point about Blackwater being a corporation and there is nothing to stop it from merging with other corporations in an expansionist move. I think this whole outsourcing of military contracts to private corporations is so very, very dangerous. They are answerable to no one and many Iraqi civilians including little kids have already paid for it with their lives. These "contractors" don't just qualify as mercenaries. It's worse than that. There are, in fact, more than 100 different "private security contractors" operating in Iraq right now. Blackwater is just the most famous of the bunch. Between them the private contractors currently have about 185,000 troops in Iraq vs. about 165,000 US military troops. Obviously, much of that war in now under contract, but their attacks don't get reported on the news coverage, nor do the deaths of the contractors get reported on the American casualty lists. They are completely off the radar.

People have no clue what these private contractors mean for Americans as well in terms of the Patriot Act. It puts every last person in America at jeopardy to a group not subject to local, state or federal laws.

Here's more about what is happening…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1VPC6CgBsA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A6Z1tevub9I&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQiZvtuLl-k&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yuQq70QSMi4&feature=related

http://mailstrom.blogspot.com/2007/06/contractors-mercenaries.html

http://judicial-inc.biz/Mercs_ambush_marines.htm

Trvlr45
8th May 2008, 21:09
I have really tried over the years to NOT believe in any of the wild conspiracies that have always floated around but it is getting harder and harder to ignore them. What Hitler did in Germany is precisely what is being done hear in America incrementaly. Have any of you ever zoomed in on the Navy base in San Diego with Google Earth and seen the swastika shaped Navy Seal building?

The Jews are really ticked off about it and rumor has it that they will be re-designing the building due to outcry from the Jewish community. I used to believe the story that it was just a coincindence but I am having a hard time with that these days. How in the hell could someone build a building shaped like that to house the most elite of all military special forces in and not realize the shape of it?

nuslvrkwen
9th May 2008, 17:03
Thanks Kelly -

Just signed the petition. I left contacts for others to get the petition info, and sign also. I grew up in San Diego. The Nazi capitol of California! My dad was in the Navy. So I've seen people completely disillusioned politically growing up there. I do hope this helps. But my doubts have to do with the education level of most of the population. That bunch feels real good about being told what to do.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 05:37
I spent six years in the Navy and I have no problem with having a military to defend our country. Unfortunately the waste and fraud connected with running the military is extreme. It is also unfortunate that our military is being used for nearious purposes that the American people don't know about. As for the people that are in the military. I'm very proud of them. What they do is with the best of intentions. It is the people who ultimately control the military that are the problem and none of them are wearing the uniform.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 05:54
Richard, from what I could gather a whole lot of Blackwater personell are very highly trained. Their main training camp is in the South; I think it was North Carolina if I remember right. And primarily, they seem to be recruiting people who have already been in the military before. I suspect that they are recruiting people who might otherwise become military lifers because they like the gig, but opt out for Blackwater instead because the pay is so much better.

Also Blackwater is not subject to any of the laws that govern military practices. They can kill civilians without cause and torture prisoners and there are no laws to date that prevent a private militia on contract with the government from doing that. I suspect that inevitably, Blackwater draws the kind of person that really gets off on the "blood lust" thing; guys that actually love the act of killing. My generation saw a lot of that happen during the war with Viet Nam. Some guys simply go way beyond the call of duty and it's because killing really excites them in some sort of primative way.

This is what makes Blackwater so dangerous; if martial law is ever declared in this country, and FEMA puts Blackwater in charge of policing the citizens, we won't be dealing with ordinary servicemen. The Blackwater people are above the law, and when you have people who love to kill and are above the law enforcing martial law, I'd say that's something we all need to be concerned about.

The petition we signed was in support of the Bill before congress that demands that the government stop outsourcing military objectives to private contractors like Blackwater operating in Iraq and Afghanistan. That's it! There was absolutely nothing in that bill that said anything about Blackwater's roll in the United States under contract to FEMA in an emergency situation (like Katrina) or should martial law ever be declared.

This is another one of those "write your senators and representitives" things, and we need to do it now because there is no telling what the government is going to do. They certainly seem to be planning on declaring martial law at some point in the future, and believe me, if they do, you don't want the Blackwater Boys beating on your door. Nobody does.

Hi Kelly,

I heard that Blackwater was called in after Katrina. Whether or not that is true or not I don't know but I know the Marines were sent in and that is un-constitutional. The National Gaurd is supposed to handle problems like that. I find it chilling that Bush said shortly after that mess that "We will need to accept the military in a larger role here at home." He also let the Mexican military storm the border under the guise of "helping" with Katrina.

As far as Blackwater or any other government funded corporate police force is concerned. They may get away with storm-trooping for a while but once everyone figures out what they are doing they will make mighty fine targets. There is no way they would get away with that in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, or anywhere in the deep south for very long.

Fortunately, the vast majority of the people in this country still know they have second ammendment rights and they know why they have them. To deal with out of control people like Blackwater.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 06:04
Kelly,

Blackwater is a contractor of government service, namely providing the service of added police and military personnel and training. This is one of many services that the government has contracted out to the private sector.

And perhaps now you can see why I hold that government services of any kind should be either nonexistent or very limited in application.

Example: Healthcare.The insurance companies are to healthcare what Blackwater (and other contracted companies...) are to the military.

Example: The Federal Reserve is thier contracted issuer of money.

Why are they contracting out so much to private firms?

To answer the call for smaller government that's been taking place for years.

Ie, people don't like the fact that big government, even though that's what they asked (and continue to ask) for over the decades, because it costs too much and never efficiently managed.

But even contracting it out to the private sectore doesn't make the function of government power and it's ineffiencies disappear... I mean really! Does where it gets it's worker matter or is it the policy itself?

And once those private parties are given a government fucntion, with all it's powers that we have given it, then why expect the results to be favorable?

What I find strange is that you would have corporations taxed, but not realize that by outsourcing to so many private parties, they gain a status of either paying less tax or none at all. This has been going on for years now, and is not a modern day phenomenon. Contracting out to private firms is how the government "shrinks" itself. The alternative is to discontiue it's most of it's many services.

Blackwater is just one of many flowers of the entire weed. It's root is an overage of government services. And overage of government services has created too much money (because they operate sheltered from taxes?). Too much money has created all the problems and chaos today.

See the forest, not the trees Kelly. To be a provider of as much as the governments are demanded to provide, they have to increase their power until it's absolute. Past that point, it gets just plain silly. As I said in other posts, such silliness would have us treat two alike things as different so that a trade could take place.

And would that it could end within the borders of our nation. No, at this point the dollar is the reserve currency in so many nations now.
They have much riding on it as well. And that money is printed up all because people don't want to face life without government services of any kind.

It's an epidemic of neuroticism. People want to be helpless, people want to be lead, they want assurances in life that NO ONE can possibly fulfill. NWO? There's no need for NWO. We're quite capable of ruining our lives and our freedoms without it. But it is a good metaphor. Indeed, as the dollar is a universal, representing nothing in particular, invisible in it's destructions and manipulations as the "head of the NWO" is.

As for the sick and elderly...

We're all destined for that outcome. Even if one could live to be 1000or more without any apparent sign of aging, the chances of sustaining a crippling/killing injury is all but certain. There is no perfect set of genes that will protect a person from failure.

We're all no better or worse off than another person is.

Does it make sense, then, to try and stop these things even though it means robbing another poor and sick and/or retired person?

If so, then the outcome is cannibalism of one sort or another. Even if we kept our glues glued to the doings of our government, that would be the result. Even if we had more eyes and were spider-people that did nothing but keep an eye on the government... that would be the result just as it the natural result of falling off a cliff from the want of a bridge would result in a fall.

And that's the simple truth.

The only legit function of a governing body is to protect equally the natural/God-given rights of each of it' citizens, that off : The right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

With that being the only purpose of government, to protect those three rights, we are ALL equally powerful and important to our government. Letting market forces prevail, which are in the hands of no one nor ever can be, makes us each as infinitely/uncertainly wealthy as the next person.

Which illustrates a very good point about how our governments are today: In seeking favors and protection, we surrendur to them the power of the market, which is everywhere and is infinitely wealthy and powerful, into their hands. We need only ask them to provide the money, initially, and the rest follows in turn. THEY become powerful and wealthy while everyone else surrendurs their natural rights and the power of the market to their price-fxing ways (this is nessecary if they are to provide a money, for markets provide them and the resulting wealth naturally; no policy or monetary unit is nessecary).

But since money is anything, and wealth is the disparity between two things in a trade, the monetary unit fails because IT is "understood" to be the price AND the purchasing power. Therefore, to provide a monetary unit that "works" for everyone is to assume all value of the market into that unit. And since there is no wealth when comparing something to itself...

Nihilism can be the only result. The sound of one hand clapping.

Instead of realize the lesson, they just tamper with the idea some more, because it is the stupid and human thing to do, and the problem only gets worse.

And that is why silver is ridiculously low. All ratios are off in the market because we insist on money being defined as s single unit, as opposed to ANY unit. We also insist that the wealth be self-contained in that unit, which is quite impossible.

Once that begins to take effect, then people suffer one or many shortages of one nature or another. So then they beg of the government to do something about it, and what evil greedy bastard would dare think about money when Something Bad is happening?

And because that error is made, the problem is never solved. The result is that prices get higher as our human idea of money is challenged by reality (which is infinitely powerful and wealthy...).

In my experiences, Kelly, I have found that the first thing to question is not one's outside "leaders", but one's very notions as to the nature of things. One must keep always in mind that reality will deliver whatever is asked of it. To surrendur the power of money to the single price-fixing unit results in an impossible means of trade in which someone must be dunked at the expense of another for the money to "work".

Mistrust of the government is only the first step. Now trace the feedback further to it's point of origin; you will correct no errors otherwise.

Well said, Richard. Anyone who thinks the govenment is a solution to all their problems needs to realize that what the "Gipper" said is true. "Government isn't the solution to the problem, government IS the problem." The writings of Thomas Payne would be a real education to the "Nanny State" crowd. Although I don't get the impression Kelly is a "Nanny Stater" in the true sense.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 06:18
You know Trvlr, I recall reading about how the ATF was using their compound in NC. Or was it SC? I forget. Anyway, someone commented in another forum that an ATF raid would be... Well, right! If they're pals...

Which is something I wanted to say in my last posts. Take note, Kelly. BW is just one weed in the whole garden and that's why I'd rather the whole thing was just thrown out. All the same though, good luck to your rep in dealing the dent.

In my opinion, the BATF has always been a rogue agency with no real purpose except to terrorize law-abiding Americans. They have been harrassing gun stores around the country until they force them out of biusiness (Red's in Idaho being the most recent) and I have no doubt that they are very cozy with groups like Backwater. I wrote ny senator recently about those miscreants and told him I didn't want the soon to be elected head of the BATF elected to that post. I haven't followed up on whether he was selcted as head of the BATF but I sure hope not. The guy was a real threat to the second ammendment.

Kelly is right about the members of Blackwater. That is where Navy Seals and other special forces go to make big bucks when they get out of the military. The last thing we need is people like that running around here "enforcing" the "law" in a time of civil unrest. They have so many "laws" that are illegal in this country it's downright scary.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 06:31
Trvlr45, thanks for signing. You brought up an important point about Blackwater being a corporation and there is nothing to stop it from merging with other corporations in an expansionist move. I think this whole outsourcing of military contracts to private corporations is so very, very dangerous. They are answerable to no one and many Iraqi civilians including little kids have already paid for it with their lives. These "contractors" don't just qualify as mercenaries. It's worse than that. There are, in fact, more than 100 different "private security contractors" operating in Iraq right now. Blackwater is just the most famous of the bunch. Between them the private contractors currently have about 185,000 troops in Iraq vs. about 165,000 US military troops. Obviously, much of that war in now under contract, but their attacks don't get reported on the news coverage, nor do the deaths of the contractors get reported on the American casualty lists. They are completely off the radar.

Hi Kelly,

You're right about the various contractors and I have noticed as I drive around the country that there are more and more and more police and security personel in this country. I can't go anywhere without seeing them. There is no need for it and it doesn't give me a very comforatable feeling.

All any American needs to be secure is a .45 autoloader and a cell phone to call the police and tell them where to come and pick up the trash. This brainwashing that has been going on for years where the govenment with the help of pro UN judges is incrementally taking away our right to defend our persons and property is very scary.

The police are supposed to come and draw chalk lines. They aren't supposed to be on every street corner and out on the highways bringing in the revenue while gangs take over the cities and illegals storm the borders by the millions. Something is very wrong here.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 16:08
Thanks Kelly -

Just signed the petition. I left contacts for others to get the petition info, and sign also. I grew up in San Diego. The Nazi capitol of California! My dad was in the Navy. So I've seen people completely disillusioned politically growing up there. I do hope this helps. But my doubts have to do with the education level of most of the population. That bunch feels real good about being told what to do.

Hi Nuslvrkwen,
The presence of the US military in California isn't a sign of Naziism. The California state legislature, Fienswine, Boxer and Pelosi along with every congressman or women in California, however, are. There are one or two Americans left in that state but they can't get anything done.

Adolph Hitler basically took the best of both worlds, Communism from Joeseph Stalin and Fascism from Mussolini and combined them to form the Nazi party. Fascism is what you get when you have the government take over big biusiness and use the employers to enslave the people which is what is happening these days thanks to the Republican party AND the Democrats. The multinational corporations bribe both parties in this country which is why they use legislation to put the small companies out of biusiness so the biggest corporations on the planet can increase market share.

Communism is what you get when the government enslaves the people. The democratic party has been a communist party since the sixties. You can Google "The 1963 goals of Communism" as discussed on the House floor in 1963 before the complete takeover of the Democratic Party and then the Colleges in the 60's. Incidentally, the House was controlled by democrats at that time. When you read through them what you will see is todays "Democratic Party" platform. It is an even bigger shame that the Republican Party is now, or the most part a Fascist Party and the Republicans haven't figured that out yet either so Democrats don't hold the corner on being blind.

Stalinist, Soviet style communism is what is being taught in the California school system and has spread to many other states as well. That is why 200 families just went to court in California because the state wants to force them not to home school their children creating more victims of the California education sytem which was 47th out of 50 last time I checked. Forget about the core values Christianity teaches or how to read, write, spell and add and subtract. And we certainly can't teach them how to think or themselves. They don't want that. They want to TELL them WHAT to think.

They want to teach violent religions like Islam, show the kids propaganda documentaries like Fahrenhet 911 and Algore's "documentary" which is based on junk, cherry-picked science and lies and last but not least homosexuality when even normal sexuality shouldn't be taught to kids in grade school and the govenment has no biussiness teaching sex-education in the first place at any age. That is the job of the parents. This is called indoctrination not education.

This is because they want ALL children to be prepped in the teachings of the former Soviet leader who murdered far more people than Hilter did. Adolph Hitler took children from their families and forced them to become Nazi's and soldiers in his army. California basically does the same thing except they have enough people out there believing "It's For the Children" when they send in Nazi organizations like CPS to steal your kid and force Ridilin down their gullet because they have a little too much energy.

The reason they force the teachings of homosexuality, hatred for America, our military, our Costitution, our Bill of Rights and Christianity is because those were all goals of the communist movement before the downfall of the former Soviet Union. At least there are some parents left in that state who realize the dangers and potential for mental, physical and emotional child abuse rampant in the California school sytem and supported by the most corrupt teachers union in the country.

When you join the military you agree to be ordered around and told what to do. It is how the military functions. It has to be that way and that is why we have the best military in the world.

However, when you are a civilian in this country you have certain rights gauranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights which the state of California doesn't think you should have anymore. They don't like property rights, they loathe the 4th and 5th Ammendments. They can't stand the 1st Ammendment since that gives you the right to point out that they are violating all the others and they can't stand the Second Ammendment which they have violated from every angle. Why? Because that is the first thing any dictatorship does. It takes away your right to defend your person, property and loved ones.

San Fransisco is the epitome of a Nazi state since you have every violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights whilst people like Pelosi and Fienswine funnel money stolen off the dinner table of Joe and Mary Lunchbox in Nebraska to their husbands' sizable investments such as defense contractors and companies that specialize in hiring illegal aliens who have been granted Costitutional rights they don't have while the people that pay their way have theirs taken away.

As for wanting to be told what to do. California was the leader in spreading Fascist non-smoking laws around the country denying private biusiness the RIGHT to allow a LEGAL activity on PRIVATE PROPERTY. California was the leader in Hate Speech legislation taking away our right to Freedom of Speech by labeling anyone a racist who points out what is wrong such as illegal aliens voting in our elections in California. Now California wants to tell everyone what kind of light bulb to use, how long to leave the lights on, what kind of car to drive, what we can think, what we can say and is even proposing legislation to control the tempurature of your house which of course is based on the hoax of man-made climate change which doesn't even exist.

How do I know so much about California. I lived there for 28 years and like every American who could, I left. I ran into a 16 year old girl in Wyoming who's mother was living in a car for the time being because she knew what a threat the state of California was to her daughter. She left to save her kid and lived in that car until she got on her feet while her daughter lived with friends. That's not the only teenage girl I've run into with the exact same story.

This entire country is developing into a Nazi dictatorship and California and the politics there are one of the biggest causes. It all starts there and in the Northeast and like a cancer spreads to the rest of the country. I could go on and on about that state but I think you get my drift.

Just my two cents worth.

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 16:14
Thanks Kelly -

Just signed the petition. I left contacts for others to get the petition info, and sign also. I grew up in San Diego. The Nazi capitol of California! My dad was in the Navy. So I've seen people completely disillusioned politically growing up there. I do hope this helps. But my doubts have to do with the education level of most of the population. That bunch feels real good about being told what to do.

Hi Nuslvrkwen,
The presence of the US military in California isn't a sign of Naziism. The California state legislature, Fienswine, Boxer and Pelosi along with every congressman or women in California, however, are. There are one or two Americans left in that state but they can't get anything done.

Adolph Hitler basically took the best of both worlds, Communism from Joeseph Stalin and Fascism from Mussolini and combined them to form the Nazi party. Fascism is what you get when you have the government take over big biusiness and use the employers to enslave the people which is what is happening these days thanks to the Republican party AND the Democrats. The multinational corporations bribe both parties in this country which is why they use legislation to put the small companies out of biusiness so the biggest corporations on the planet can increase market share.

Communism is what you get when the government enslaves the people. The democratic party has been a communist party since the sixties. You can Google "The 1963 goals of Communism" as discussed on the House floor in 1963 before the complete takeover of the Democratic Party and then the Colleges in the 60's. Incidentally, the House was controlled by democrats at that time. When you read through them what you will see is todays "Democratic Party" platform. It is an even bigger shame that the Republican Party is now, or the most part a Fascist Party and the Republicans haven't figured that out yet either so Democrats don't hold the corner on being blind.

Stalinist, Soviet style communism is what is being taught in the California school system and has spread to many other states as well. That is why 200 families just went to court in California because the state wants to force them not to home school their children creating more victims of the California education sytem which was 47th out of 50 last time I checked. Forget about the core values Christianity teaches or how to read, write, spell and add and subtract. And we certainly can't teach them how to think or themselves. They don't want that. They want to TELL them WHAT to think.

They want to teach violent religions like Islam, show the kids propaganda documentaries like Fahrenhet 911 and Algore's "documentary" which is based on junk, cherry-picked science and lies and last but not least homosexuality when even normal sexuality shouldn't be taught to kids in grade school and the govenment has no biussiness teaching sex-education in the first place at any age. That is the job of the parents. This is called indoctrination not education.

This is because they want ALL children to be prepped in the teachings of the former Soviet leader who murdered far more people than Hilter did. Adolph Hitler took children from their families and forced them to become Nazi's and soldiers in his army. California basically does the same thing except they have enough people out there believing "It's For the Children" when they send in Nazi organizations like CPS to steal your kid and force Ridilin down their gullet because they have a little too much energy.

The reason they force the teachings of homosexuality, hatred for America, our military, our Costitution, our Bill of Rights and Christianity is because those were all goals of the communist movement before the downfall of the former Soviet Union. At least there are some parents left in that state who realize the dangers and potential for mental, physical and emotional child abuse rampant in the California school sytem and supported by the most corrupt teachers union in the country.

When you join the military you agree to be ordered around and told what to do. It is how the military functions. It has to be that way and that is why we have the best military in the world.

However, when you are a civilian in this country you have certain rights gauranteed by the constitution and the Bill of Rights which the state of California doesn't think you should have anymore. They don't like property rights, they loathe the 4th and 5th Ammendments. They can't stand the 1st Ammendment since that gives you the right to point out that they are violating all the others and they can't stand the Second Ammendment which they have violated from every angle. Why? Because that is the first thing any dictatorship does. It takes away your right to defend your person, property and loved ones.

San Fransisco is the epitome of a Nazi state since you have every violation of the Constitution and the Bill of Rights whilst people like Pelosi and Fienswine funnel money stolen off the dinner table of Joe and Mary Lunchbox in Nebraska to their husbands' sizable investments such as defense contractors and companies that specialize in hiring illegal aliens who have been granted Costitutional rights they don't have while the people that pay their way have theirs taken away.

As for wanting to be told what to do. California was the leader in spreading Fascist non-smoking laws around the country denying private biusiness the RIGHT to allow a LEGAL activity on PRIVATE PROPERTY. California was the leader in Hate Speech legislation taking away our right to Freedom of Speech by labeling anyone a racist who points out what is wrong such as illegal aliens voting in our elections in California. Now California wants to tell everyone what kind of light bulb to use, how long to leave the lights on, what kind of car to drive, what we can think, what we can say and is even proposing legislation to control the tempurature of your house which of course is based on the hoax of man-made climate change which doesn't even exist.

How do I know so much about California. I lived there for 28 years and like every American who could, I left. I ran into a 16 year old girl in Wyoming who's mother was living in a car for the time being because she knew what a threat the state of California was to her daughter. She left to save her kid and lived in that car until she got on her feet while her daughter lived with friends. That's not the only teenage girl I've run into with the exact same story.

This entire country is developing into a Nazi dictatorship and California and the politics there are one of the biggest causes. It all starts there and in the Northeast and like a cancer spreads to the rest of the country. I could go on and on about that state but I think you get my drift.

Just my two cents worth.

Richard
10th May 2008, 16:15
He also let the Mexican military storm the border under the guise of "helping" with Katrina.

There might be some truth to that and is something I can testify to.

In June 2005 I was in Laredo, TX and holed up waiting for my freight to get over the border to take it to Canada. Finally, my company cancelled because in Nuevo Laredo, just over the border, there was some kind of fighting taking place. A revolutionary group of one or another. Neuvo had been under martial law, no one could get over either direction and trucks were just piling up in town. I have no idea what the fighting was about, but it's sad to say frequent enough in Mexico. Another driver I met up with from my company got through in Brownsville TX, though, so it might have been just localized trouble in Neuvo Laredo.


There is no way they would get away with that in Utah, Montana, Wyoming, Idaho, or anywhere in the deep south for very long.

Ever see the movie "Red Dawn"? That was supposedly based on a real assessment of US military weakness in the 80's. And that was part of what happened in the movie: Soviet and Cuban forces stormed in from Mexico and swept into those states, supposed to meet Russian forces coming in from Alaska. I guess in the movie, though it wasn't mentioned too much, the Soviets had pretty much taken the west, but the forces in Alaska had met solid resistence.

Just some trivia :D


Fortunately, the vast majority of the people in this country still know they have second ammendment rights and they know why they have them. To deal with out of control people like Blackwater.

I can't afford a gun... I have a friend with a ton of em though!

Trvlr45
10th May 2008, 16:19
P.S.

My intent is not to offend just to point out the facts. I'm a realist.