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View Full Version : The great gold sell-off caper!



FedFixNix
7th April 2008, 22:17
This is market manipulation at the highest levels!

Any comments?


IMF Board Backs Plan To Sell 403.3 Tons From Gold Holdings
Maya Jackson Randall

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- The International Monetary Fund's executive board Monday signed off on a broad financial reform plan that proposes to put 403.3 tons of its vast gold holdings up for sale.

IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn applauded the board's decision to propose a new framework designed to close a projected $400 million income- expenditure gap within a few years.

It's "a landmark agreement that will put the institution on solid financial footing and modernize the IMF's structure and operations," he said in a statement, noting that the board agreed on a medium-term budget proposal with sharp spending cuts of $100 million over the next three years.

Still, the IMF can't kick off its gold-sale program - a key element of the its plan to diversify its revenue stream and boost income - until it receives a green light from the U.S. Congress.

A senior IMF official confirmed the board can't make a decision Monday to actually start the sales because the U.S. executive director for the fund can't vote for the sales because he doesn't yet have congressional backing.

Under the plan, the IMF would sell the 403 tons, or nearly 13 million ounces, of gold for about $11 billion over several years, according to the senior IMF official. The IMF official said the fund would keep $4.4 billion on its books and put the remaining $6.6 billion into its investment account.

Additionally, IMF would coordinate the sales with central banks in an effort to prevent any market disruptions, the official said.

"Gold sales would be conducted in a transparent manner with strong safeguards to ensure that they do not add to official sales and avoid any risk of market disruption," the IMF said in a notice Monday afternoon.

While a senior U.S. Treasury Department official has signaled his support for the limited gold sales as a way to ensure the IMF's long-term funding capabilities, it is unclear how Congress will respond. Congress, in 1999, rejected a previous proposal for the IMF to sell gold.

In addition to creating an endowment from the gold sales, the IMF also plans to expand its investment authority, which is currently very narrow.

IMF's investment authority would be broadened to enhance the average expected return on the fund's investments and enable it to adapt its investment strategy over time, the IMF said in its notice.

-By Maya Jackson Randall, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-9255, maya.jackson- randall@dowjones.com

(END) Dow Jones Newswires
04-07-081629ET
Copyright (c) 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

silverbuggy
8th April 2008, 01:33
Questions:

1. How strong will this sale influence the POG/how low will it fall?

2. Who is going to pick it up?

Kelly
8th April 2008, 16:00
Uhhhh, where in the hell did the IMF get 12,896,000 ounces of gold? At a thousand dollars an ounce, that gold has a value of $12,896,000,000 dollars!

So what in the hell do they mean...

Gold sales would be conducted in a transparent manner with strong safeguards to ensure that they do not add to official sales and avoid any risk of market disruption," the IMF said in a notice Monday afternoon.


Excuse me? What a load of crap! What are the so called "safeguards"? Selling that gold to the Fed so they can back their damnable Amero with it?

Sweet Jesus! Save me...

Kelly
8th April 2008, 16:53
This is some great background information on how the IMF really works.

How the IMF Props Up the Bankrupt Dollar System
By F. William Engdahl, US/Germany

One of the crucial pillars of support for today's Dollar System is Washington's control of the International Monetary Fund, the IMF. The way this actually works is carefully disguised, behind a facade of technocrats and economic theory of free market ideology. In reality, the IMF is a modern era collection agency for the Dollar Empire. It collects its tribute, through major international banks, who use the dollars to further extend the power of American financial and corporate hegemony, in effect the driving motor of what is globalization.

Ironically, though the IMF is a main prop of the Dollar System, it's nominally headed by a European, today a German, Horst Koehler, and before him, by a Frenchman, Michel Camdessus. The real power is carefully concealed behind the facade. Under the constitution of the IMF, no major decision is possible without 85% support of the board of directors. The United States, which drafted the original IMF charter at Bretton Woods New Hampshire in 1944, made sure it had the decisive veto control with an 18% vote share. That veto remains to today. Insiders know well that the IMF is run by Washington. It is no accident that its headquarters is also there.

The IMF was originally created in the 1944 Bretton Woods New Hampshire international monetary conference, called by President Roosevelt to set up a postwar monetary and trade system. It was intended as a fund to support stability of currencies and trade of the postwar European allied countries. At that time Washington held the vast bulk of world gold reserves and expected to lend dollars to rebuild Europe. The original IMF idea was to pool a share of reserves of member states, which any single state could then borrow, in event of a short term payments crisis, to stabilize their currency. Ten years after the Great Depression, the major industrial nations, including the USA, were concerned with creation of a stable, growing Europe, not least as an export market for US products. The first member to borrow was Great Britain after the war. The last European state was Italy in 1977.

The IMF is retooled in 1980s

Since 1977, no European or G7 country has gone to the IMF to borrow. Instead they have borrowed from private banks or issued state debt. They know all too well how destructive the IMF conditions are. By the end of the 1970s some people were suggesting the IMF had outlived its role, much as some argue with NATO after the end of the Cold War. Washington had other ideas for the IMF however.

The role of the IMF changed dramatically in the early 1980s, under US pressure. Instead of serving as a stabilizing fund for industrial countries of Europe or Japan, the IMF became the decisive agency controlling economic policy of underdeveloped countries. What evolved since the first Latin American debt crises of the early 1980s, was an entirely new role for the IMF to act as policeman to collect dollar loans for private New York and international banks. The IMF became the driving motor for what came to be called "globalization."

After the first oil price rise of 400% in the 1970s, many developing countries such as Brazil, Argentina, or most of Africa, borrowed heavily to finance needed oil imports, or trade deficits. They borrowed dollars from major international banks operating in the London Eurodollar market. London was the center for, in effect, the recycling of the large sums of petrodollars from Arab OPEC countries to US and other major banks.

The major banks took the new oil dollars and immediately relent them at a nice profit, to countries like Argentina or Egypt. Before the 1970s Argentina had been a fast-growing economy developing modern industry, agriculture and a rising standard of living for its people. It had almost no foreign debt. Ten years later, the country was under control of the IMF and foreign banks. The US changed the rules, in the process creating the debt crisis.

In October 1979, a dramatic shock occurred for the debtor countries. Overnight their cheap dollar loans cost them 300% more interest charge. Paul Volcker of the Federal Reserve Bank in the US, unilaterally changed US interest policy to force the dollar higher against other currencies. The effect was to raise US interest rates 300% and rates in the London bank market by even more. The bank loans to Argentina and other countries had been made in "floating" rate agreements. If the key international rate in the London bank market, LIBOR, was low, Argentina would pay a low rate on its dollar loans. But when it suddenly rose 300% in 1979-1980, many countries suddenly faced a payments crisis.

It took until 1982 for the crisis to reach default level. At that point, Washington demanded the IMF be brought in to police a debt collection process on developing debtor nations. This came to be called the Third World Debt Crisis. The impression was created that countries like Argentina were guilty for mismanagement. In reality, whatever political corruption may have existed in the debtor countries, the corruption of the IMF system and the petrodollar recycling was far greater. The Volcker interest rate shock completed the package of destruction of living standards on behalf of dollar debts.

How did the IMF act in the third world debt crisis? Here is where it becomes clear that the role of the IMF was to support the dollar hegemony of the United States, and not to help poor countries get through a temporary debt problem.

The 'Washington Consensus'

The IMF has been described by some as a tool of neo-colonialism. That is too mild, as 19th Century British or European colonialism, however harsh, never managed to accomplish the extent of devastation and destruction of health and living standards the IMF has done since the 1970s.

The IMF operates as a supranational agency to take control over helpless debtor states, to impose economic policies that force the country ever deeper into debt, while opening the market to foreign, often US capital and global corporate exploitation. The fact that debtor countries never get out of their dollar debt, only deeper in, is deliberate. IMF policy in fact insures this. The dollar debt is a major prop of the dollar system and of private international banks. When that debt is repaid, banks lose power and credit contracts. So long as debt grows, bank credit can grow, the paradox of modern banking.

The tip-off that the real purpose of the IMF is quite different from its public claims, is that despite repeated proof of the destructiveness of its policies, called "conditionalities," the IMF has never changed the method it uses in a target country. There is a reason for that.

Take Argentina as a case in point. In early 2002 Argentina defaulted on repaying $141 billion in foreign dollar debt. One of the most devastating economic collapses in modern history ensued. The IMF was crucial. In early 2000 Argentina had turned to the IMF for emergency credit to prevent a collapse of its currency, then fixed to the strong US dollar. As the dollar rose, Argentina found its exports trade collapsing. The country went into recession. The IMF stepped in with a $48 billion "rescue" package. But there were conditions.

First the government had to agree to severe IMF-dictated cuts in government spending before it would get any money. State subsidies on food for low income were ended, triggering food riots. Interest rates exploded in a vain effort to convince foreign banks and bondholders to not sell. That only worsened the economic depression. State companies were forced to privatize to raise money and "promote free market" liberalization. The Buenos Aires water system was sold for pennies to Enron, as was a pipeline going from Argentina to Chile.

Washington insisted all the while that Argentina hold to its fixed currency value, arguing that the trust of foreign bondholders and creditors was the priority. Meanwhile the country sank into its worst depression in memory, as millions lost jobs, and bank accounts were in the final stage frozen, so ordinary citizens could not even draw savings for life necessities.
What exactly does the IMF do when it comes into a crisis country that asks for emergency lending to overcome a debt or currency crisis? The IMF always uses the same program, regardless of whether it is Russia or Argentina, Zimbabwe or South Korea, all very different cultures, economies and situations. The IMF demands are often referred to as the Washington Consensus, the name given in 1990 by a US economist and IMF backer, John Williamson, to describe the IMF method of attack.

IMF medicine almost always includes demands to privatize state industries, to slash public spending even on health and education, devalue the national currency against the dollar, and open the country to free flow of international capital-both in and, especially, out.


To see the rest of the article…

http://www.serendipity.li/hr/imf_and_dollar_system.htm

nuslvrkwen
8th April 2008, 19:03
Thanks So Much FedFixNix for your insight and kind welcome to my first post yesterday! I've been reading so much of your posts; Kelly's posts; and all the other contributors - it's the reason I can make this statement. I used to work in electronic banking systems. Despite the way it looks, banking managment is NOT that smart or skilled to do this for the benefit of their banks. They need traders to do this for them. Traders are required to follow trading instructions.

I believe that gold was sold already. We'll probably never know when. The announcement was published to cover somebody's butt who's close to retirement. That person is a geeze unaware that gold is missing. Who ever set up all these leases and sales knows there will never be a true audit/inventory of any bullion physically held in this country. Since they haven't done one since the Eisenhour days. So make it look like it's being sold soon when for all we know it could have gone missing around 2004. Or earlier.

I personally believe something negative is going on despite all the trading activity at different times of the day like what the graphics on Kitco show. Seems like the volume of trade happens when Asia is active. According to what I was reading on threads in this forum; Asia bought a bunch of gold and silver some time back in late October/November 2007. This country's market has been really using its' sale of metal backed stock to keep liquidity since January. At least that's when we started hearing about it, and seeing hard commodity prices tank. If Asia OWNS metal, why not lease some more?

That's why I think what the US is going through is a depression NOT a recession. The R word is a dodge! If it took the Republicans 10 years or so to downgrade the value to the dollar by seperating it from its' precious metal backing back in '33, and the present 'relaxation' of State's consumer protection laws especially - personal privacy laws enacted for the twentieth & twenty-first century were made inactive by law on the books since the horse and buggy days... Man, this is a money laundering scam - that's where the volume of trade comes in. It masks cashflow transactions, merging them together so people can't tell real price difference between future and hard commodity, or even actual sale OF commodity.

The wars are a smoke screen, you'd need something like that; and very quiet reversals in law enforcement (remember Alberto Gonzales - personal privacy laws weren't around in 1933) to pull this off. This administration would do this, because it's worked for everything else they've done since being in office. This administration has NEVER been able to actually RUN the country. That wasn't the agenda Bush was front man to by getting elected. His party doesn't even understand the benefit to be had by simply doing that. Running the country. They got elected to devalue the dollar to 'move' money transaction in another direction. The voting public would have elected him even if they knew. They don't read. What other than this has this administration done since being first elected?

If you look at the history of government - WHAT government could you name that has really been FOR the benefit people? Not even the communists. Everybody's in it for their own gain. When I wrote my introduction I mentioned NOT getting into anything that had to do with contracts. Service contracts on cell phones - mine's prepaid so I don't have them trying to sell me more crap later. I made every effort NOT to deal with any company with contracts for service. Lately my utility service has changed, and you wouldn't believe all the new fees I'm getting charged. And literally all I did was move into another apartment on another floor in my same building! Contracts for mortgages, new credit cards, etc. Why? That's where the 'fee ratio per transaction' amount is hidden to set up for systems to automatically do the transaction for payment of whatever, and charge YOU for the privilege to making the transaction. After all, YOU signed a contract. Wierd huh? No charge is truly all there is, there's always something else you won't see. The stuff you don't see is HOW who ever is servicing the contract is really making their money.

So I believe that sell off was the press release for something that's already happened, and we're in a depression. All the liquidity issues point that way.

geomets
8th April 2008, 20:36
Just like when the Chinese announced they'd diversify out of dollars... they actually did so prior to making the announcement!! No entity in their right mind would announce an asset crushing move (like the chinese dollar dump, or the IMF gold dump) prior to dumping.

Kinda defeats the purpose...

If you believe the only purpose is to drive the price of the asset down... then they only need to credibly threaten the move. An actual quiet, orderly sale of the asset probably wouldn't do much damage.

Either way...400 tons of gold would likely be snatched up before it ever hit the market. SWF's, CB's, CalPERS... who knows?

Kelly
8th April 2008, 21:32
I believe that gold was sold already. We'll probably never know when.

We may never know when, but my guess is we'll all eventually know who bought it. If 12 billion dollars in gold was sold under the table by IMF than my guess is somebody's central bank is getting ready to start backing their currency in gold.

Here's the fact list on IMF gold holdings...

http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/facts/gold.htm

A Factsheet - February 2008
Gold in the IMF

Gold played a central role in the international monetary system until the collapse of the BrettonWoods system of fixed exchange rates in 1973. Since then, the role of gold has been gradually reduced. However, it is still an important asset in the reserve holdings of a number of countries, and the IMF remains one of the largest official holders of gold in the world.

The IMF's gold holdings

The IMF holds 103.4 million ounces (3,217 metric tons) of gold at designated depositories. The IMF's total gold holdings are valued on its balance sheet at SDR 5.9 billion (about $9.2 billion) on the basis of historical cost. As of February 20, 2008, the IMF's holdings amounted to $95.2 billion (at then current market prices). A portion of these holdings were acquired since the Second Amendment of the IMF's Articles of Agreement in April 1978, amounting to 12.97 million ounces (403.3 metric tons), with a market value of $11.9 billion as of February 20, 2008. As noted below, this part of the Fund’s gold holdings is not subject to restitution to members.

The IMF acquired the majority of its gold holdings prior to the Second Amendment through four main types of transactions. First, it was then prescribed that 25 percent of initial quota subscriptions and subsequent quota increases were to be paid in gold. This represented the largest source of the IMF's gold. Second, all payments of charges (i.e., interest on members' use of IMF credit) were normally made in gold. Third, a member wishing to purchase the currency of another member could acquire it by selling gold to the IMF. The major use of this provision was sales of gold to the IMF by South Africa in 1970–71. And finally, members could use gold to repay the IMF for credit previously extended.

The IMF's policy on gold today

The Second Amendment to the Articles of Agreement in April 1978 eliminated the use of gold as the common denominator of the post-World War II exchange rate system and as the basis of the value of the Special Drawing Right (SDR). It also abolished the official price of gold and brought to an end the obligatory use of gold in transactions between the IMF and its members. It furthermore required that the IMF, when dealing in gold, avoid managing its price or establishing a fixed price.

The Articles of Agreement now limit the use of gold in the IMF's operations and transactions. The IMF may sell gold outright on the basis of prevailing market prices, and may accept gold in the discharge of a member's obligations at an agreed price, based on market prices at the time of acceptance. These transactions in gold require an 85 percent majority of total voting power. The IMF does not have the authority to engage in any other gold transactions—such as loans, leases, swaps, or use of gold as collateral—nor does it have the authority to buy gold.

The Articles also provide for the restitution of the gold the Fund held on the date of the Second Amendment to members of the Fund as of August 31, 1975. Restitution would involve the sale of gold to this group of members at the former official price of SDR 35 per ounce, with such sales made to those members who agree to buy it in proportion to their quotas on the date of the Second Amendment. A decision to restitute gold requires support from an 85 percent majority of the total voting power. The Articles do not provide for the restitution of gold the Fund has acquired after the date of the Second Amendment.

The IMF's policy on gold is governed by the following principles:
• As an undervalued asset held by the IMF, gold provides fundamental strength to its balance sheet. Any mobilization of IMF gold should avoid weakening its overall financial position.
• The IMF should continue to hold a relatively large amount of gold among its assets, not only for prudential reasons, but also to meet unforeseen contingencies.
• The IMF has a systemic responsibility to avoid causing disruptions to the functioning of the gold market.
• Profits from any gold sales should be used whenever feasible to create an investment fund, of which only the income should be used.

How and when the IMF used gold

Outflows of gold from the IMF's holdings occurred under the original Articles of Agreement through sales of gold for currency, and via payments of remuneration and interest. Since the Second Amendment of the Articles of Agreement, outflows of gold can only occur through outright sales. Key gold transactions included:

• Sales for replenishment (1957–70). The IMF sold gold on several occasions during this period to replenish its holdings of currencies.
• South African gold (1970–71). The IMF sold gold to members in amounts roughly corresponding to those purchased in these years from South Africa.
• Investment in U.S. government securities (1956–72). In order to generate income to offset operational deficits, some IMF gold was sold to the United States and the proceeds invested in U.S. government securities. Subsequently, a significant buildup of IMF reserves prompted the IMF to reacquire this gold from the U.S. government.
• Auctions and "restitution" sales (1976–80). The IMF sold approximately one third (50 million ounces) of its then-existing gold holdings following an agreement by its members to reduce the role of gold in the international monetary system. Half of this amount was sold in restitution to members at the then-official price of SDR 35 per ounce; the other half was auctioned to the market to finance the Trust Fund, which supported concessional lending by the IMF to low-income countries.
• Off-market transactions in gold (1999–2000).In December 1999, the Executive Board authorized off-market transactions in gold of up to 14 million ounces to help finance IMF participation in the Heavily Indebted Poor Countries (HIPC) Initiative. Between December 1999 and April 2000, separate but closely linked transactions involving a total of 12.9 million ounces of gold were carried out between the IMF and two members (Brazil and Mexico) that had financial obligations falling due to the IMF. In the first step, the IMF sold gold to the member at the prevailing market price and the profits were placed in a special account invested for the benefit of the HIPC Initiative. In the second step, the IMF immediately accepted back, at the same market price, the same amount of gold from the member in settlement of that member's financial obligations. The net effect of these transactions was to leave the balance of the IMF's holdings of physical gold unchanged.

***

Isn't it interesting how very noble the IMF website paints its actions? When you compare what IMF tells us to the other article I posted written by somebody who has watched the IMF utterly destroy the economies of entire nations, one really has to appreciate the effectiveness of spin and doublespeak...

FedFixNix
9th April 2008, 11:33
IMF, World Bank, International Bank of Settlements, Central Banks of every nation...

They are all branches of the same club of exploitative men with the goal of world domination. They already own and control nearly everything worth having: gold, silver, land, resources, mines, banks, vaults, holding companies, Fortune 500 Corporations, waterways, dams, canals, shipping, transportation, and so on. If its not theirs outright, they hold mortgages on the assets, which means control.

Every Central Bank has taken turns selling off gold since WW II, and before. They spin out reasons for doing so, but the real reasons are always hidden to the public, and all but a handful of top schemers.

I'm impressed and grateful for all the info Kelly digs up. My own time is limited, and I'm trying to free up some time to write a book on my take on all of this mess, how we get in it, and how to get out.

Nu, it's good to have you and your sound values aboard.

FedFixNix
9th April 2008, 12:36
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves

I wonder just whose gold it is that is in IMF vaults? They don't ever clearly state who owns the gold in any central bank.

Here's another:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_banks

Check out this crock:

"The central bank, reserve bank, or monetary authority, is the entity responsible for the monetary policy of a country or of a group of member states. Its primary responsibility is to maintain the stability of the national currency and money supply, but more active duties include controlling subsidized-loan interest rates, and acting as a "bailout" lender of last resort to the banking sector during times of financial crisis (private banks often being integral to the national financial system). It may also have supervisory powers, to ensure that banks and other financial institutions do not behave recklessly or fraudulently."

They speak with forked tongue! They talk as if they were some federal or national authority, and they simply are NOT. These people lie like rugs.

Kelly
9th April 2008, 12:39
My own time is limited, and I'm trying to free up some time to write a book on my take on all of this mess, how we get in it, and how to get out.

Ohhh Nix! LOL! I've got about six of those books started myself! And one of the reasons I do all this research is because when I find these interesting articles, I save them to a file on my hard drive that serves as part of my research documentation. I have already shot my wad on books, and don't have anymore room for another one; they are exploding out of bookcases, stacked in piles in corners, and tucked under the chairs. Although I love to read a good book (I am a non-fiction freak), the internet is getting much better than it used to be, and a lot of the research is up to date and very, very good. And it's also free, which is a very good price. I've got enough research under my belt to be able to judge very quickly whether the information is just somebody's wild hype or if it has merit. So ultimately, posting these articles also benefits me 'cuz I save the files for that book I will hopefully one day actually finish.

You are so right on about the banking organizations; they are all different parts of one single system that ultimately controls and manipulates the currencies and economies of the entire world. They are lethal and responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people starving in third world countries all over the world. It's just horrible.

It might surprise people to know that under the various Farm Bills there are generally provisions made for "International Food Aide", and this is often the "aide" we see talked about that US government supposedly gives to other countries in order to help "the starving children" etc. Well, if you are under the illusion that this is aide we actually "give" to them, you're not alone; that's what I thought too. It's spin. We don't "give" anybody anything. The government actually charges those nations for all those containers of rice, corn or wheat that is shipped to them, and because the IMF has already destroyed their economies, those countries have to borrow even more money to get the "Food Aide." The aide we supposedly give to other countries is always loaned to them, and they have to go to the IMF to get the funds. And that's like borrowing money from a loan shark. Worse, in fact.

The aide given is always a food commodity for which massive farm subsidies have been given to the farmer here in the USA. And it's not really "aide" at all. All those containers of food get dumped in a third world country, and much of the food is never given to the hungry, it gets siphoned off by graft or sold. Ultimately though, all that wheat, corn, or rice that gets shipped as aide, destroys the farmers in that country that are trying to grow and market wheat, corn or rice, and so the whole scam is really about destroying any and all competing markets. We get told the pretty side of the story the government wants everybody to believe, but when you start nosing around, the real truth turns out to be a horse of another color. I gasp to think I am a citizen of a country that is doing that to third world nations. It makes me feel ashamed.

FedFixNix? I've been meaning to ask you a question. Somewhere in Bill Still's video, The Money Masters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=Money+Masters&total=3309&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) he tells us that another bank (I thought it was the IMF) is printing US currency dollars today. It's such a long film, and I've been trying to find it but I don't want to have to go through the whole thing again. Do you recall what it was that he said about that? And especially, do you remember if the bank was the IMF, or was it another world bank? I've been trying to locate internet articles on the subject, and so far am having no luck.

Thanks ahead of time.

Kelly
9th April 2008, 13:08
I forgot to add that if the "foriegn aide" is supposed to go for a non-food program, like building roads, or dams or infrastructure, the country not only has to borrow that money from the IMF, the IMF also determines WHO is going to build that project for that country and the contract is inevitably given to one of the big US corporations, like Haliburton or Bechtel or whatever. Those corporations ultimately get the money, while the country the aide is given to ends up footing the bill.

To make matters even more horrible, the IMF loans money at "adjustible interest rates" to the third world nations. We've all seen what adjustible rates can do to homeowners; it can bankrupt them, so picture that little scenario multiplied many times over, and that's what the IMF is doing to other countries. And all this under the guise of the ever so altruistic sounding phrase, "foriegn aide." What we read in the papers or watch on the news amounts to a national ad campaign for the government, who certainly doesn't want any of us citizens to understand what is really going on.

Kelly
9th April 2008, 13:41
You are absolutely right, FedFixNix, those articles do raise some significant questions. According to the article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves

"Gold reserves (or gold holdings) are held by central banks as a store of value. In 2001, it was estimated that all the gold ever mined totalled 145,000 tonnes.[1] One metric tonne is equal to 1,000 kilograms (or 32,150 troy ounces), therefore one tonne of gold equated to a value of US$32.15 million in March 2008 ($1,000/troy ounces). So the total value of all gold ever mined would be worth US$4.66 trillion at today's prices.[2] If the world was to return to the gold standard, the price of gold would significantly increase as the global market capitalization for all stock markets is worth US$43.6 trillion alone (as of March 2006)."

Well, there is another very obvious scenario, and that would be that not only would gold need to go up, our currency would like also likely need to be significantly devalued. This, of course, raises many more questions in terms of the proposed Amero.

Even then, it is very difficult for me to understand how one could possibly come up with a currency that was fully backed by gold. So if that is their ultimate game plan, how do you see this coming about? What do you think, people? How could they do it? It seems to me like one would also need to severely contract the number of dollars in circulation, as well as manipulate a severe stock market crash in order to also remove dollars from the stock exchanges. Then would they devalue the dollar and raise the price of gold?

Obviously, when you look at how much gold each country holds, America is the only country that could possibly go on a gold reserve system. Even if China, Russia and India combined forces, they don't have near as much gold as the US does. At $1000 an ounce, the total value of America's gold holdings is $261,492,025,000. Interesting...


Rank Country Gold (tonnes) in 2007

1 United States of America 8,133.5
2 Germany 3,417.4
3 International Monetary Fund 3,217.3
4 France 2,622.3
5 Italy 2,451.8
6 Switzerland 1,166.3
7 Japan 765.2
8 Turkey 700.1
9 Netherlands 624.5
10 People's Republic of China 600.0
11 Russia 438.2
12 Republic of China (Taiwan) 423.3
13 Portugal 382.6
14 India 357.7
15 Venezuela 356.8
16 United Kingdom 310.3
17 Lebanon 286.8
18 Spain 281.6
19 Austria 280.0
20 Belgium 227.7
21 Algeria 173.6
22 Sweden 150.3
23 Libya 143.8
24 Saudi Arabia 143.0
25 Bank for International Settlements 142.7
26 Singapore 127.4
27 Philippines 126.9
28 South Africa 124.1
29 Romania 103.7
30 Poland 102.9
31 Thailand 84.0
32 Australia 79.8
33 Kuwait 79.0
34 Egypt 75.6
35 Indonesia 73.1
36 Denmark 66.5
37 Pakistan 65.3
38 Kazakhstan 62.7
39 Iran N/A 65.3

Kelly
9th April 2008, 16:31
Oops! I missed something significant! Actually the US is NOT the most qualified candidate to back their currency in gold after all! The following nations are all member nations of the European Union and consider the Euro their reserve currency.

Tons of gold held

UK 310.3
GERMANY 3417.4
ITALY 2451.8
FRANCE 2622.3
NETHERLANDS 624.5
SWEDEN 150.3
AUSTRIA 280.
POLAND 102.9
DENMARK 66.5
ROMANIA 103.7
----------------------
TOTAL 10,129.7

US TOTAL 8,133.5

My point here is that although I have long been aware of the manipulations intended to create the now famous "New World Order," I have also been aware that though both the European hierarchy and the controlling hierarchy of America backed the NWO plan, there has been a very significant battle going on behind the scenes to determine which group of nations ultimately dominated the NWO economy. As you can clearly see, if domination was ultimately to be determined by which group of nations had the most gold socked away in order to back a currency by gold, the EU presently has considerably more gold held in reserve than America does.

It seems logical to conclude then, that whoever bought the 403 tons of IMF gold would have likely been either the Euro Central Bank or the Federal Reserve. And it would be the US who is attempting to play catch up.

It's also interesting to note that many of the member nations of the EU are not listed as holding any gold reserves, and I seriously doubt that. And by the same token niether Canada or Mexico are listed as having any gold reserves, and my guess is they've got some gold socked away too.

It looks like the game is not over 'till the fat lady sings…

Kelly
9th April 2008, 18:18
One of the possible scenarios I see that may have taken place with the IMF gold would have been when JP Morgan Chase borrowed millions to buy out Bear Stearns. Bear Stearns was holding a whole lot of mortgages on homes that had been devalued because of the housing slump. JP Morgan Chase could have then traded those mortgages as the collateral on the money they borrowed from the Fed. And the Fed in turn could have traded the debt balance on those devalued mortgages to the IMF in exchange for their gold.

This is just a guess of course, but it is indeed peculiar that the IMF announcement about selling 403 tons of gold came on the coattails of the Bear Stearns buy out.

Thoughts anyone?

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 00:22
You are so right on about the banking organizations; they are all different parts of one single system that ultimately controls and manipulates the currencies and economies of the entire world. They are lethal and responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people starving in third world countries all over the world. It's just horrible.

It might surprise people to know that under the various Farm Bills there are generally provisions made for "International Food Aide", and this is often the "aide" we see talked about that US government supposedly gives to other countries in order to help "the starving children" etc. Well, if you are under the illusion that this is aide we actually "give" to them, you're not alone; that's what I thought too. It's spin. We don't "give" anybody anything. The government actually charges those nations for all those containers of rice, corn or wheat that is shipped to them, and because the IMF has already destroyed their economies, those countries have to borrow even more money to get the "Food Aide." The aide we supposedly give to other countries is always loaned to them, and they have to go to the IMF to get the funds. And that's like borrowing money from a loan shark. Worse, in fact.

The aide given is always a food commodity for which massive farm subsidies have been given to the farmer here in the USA. And it's not really "aide" at all. All those containers of food get dumped in a third world country, and much of the food is never given to the hungry, it gets siphoned off by graft or sold. Ultimately though, all that wheat, corn, or rice that gets shipped as aide, destroys the farmers in that country that are trying to grow and market wheat, corn or rice, and so the whole scam is really about destroying any and all competing markets. We get told the pretty side of the story the government wants everybody to believe, but when you start nosing around, the real truth turns out to be a horse of another color. I gasp to think I am a citizen of a country that is doing that to third world nations. It makes me feel ashamed.

Kelly, You nailed it my friend. Suppose you are a poor farmer in a poor land, and you are trying to raise corn, or wheat... whatever. Your (corrupt) government is indebting you and your fellow citizens to the World Bank by accepting US Food Bank aid. So the corn or wheat they bring in that is paid for or subsidized by you is then made available to your community at prices that make it impossible for you to compete. So you either go further into debt of go out of business.

Dumping free or low priced foods may temporarily feed starving people, but unless the agricultural base is made stronger it actually does more long term harm than good.

All aid and assistance works the same way. You can give a person a fish or teach him to fish. Which is preferable? Or you can help him get fishing equipment, or a boat. That is contructive help.

What is not constructive is the dumping of surplus wheat into markets where farmers and grocers are trying to make a living.

But that is just the beginnings of it. What they are doing by forcing these peasant farmers to use Monsanto's genetically modified crops and grains is beyond simple negligence, or stupidity. It is greed with its ugliest face.

They come into an area and offer grain crop seed for a very low price that local seed merchants cannot compete with, driving them out of business. Then the farmers discover the crops they grow are sterile, and produce no seed for the following year. So they must then go back to Monsanto for the next year's crop seed, and ... you guessed it... the price has gone up. And the same will happen next year, and the next.

And this is but one instance or example among hundreds like this. And the same principle is being used to hook Americans on Wal-Marts, Home Depots, and other big chains that drive local merchants out of business around the nation.

It's like getting people hooked on drugs. Cheap stuff becomes addictive, and once hooked on the drugs, or whatever, the price goes up and its not cheap any more.

Monopolization. One word describes it all. Mono + one. One World... One Power... One Economy... One money supply... One Big Brother to manage everything.

Anyone for a game of Monopoly?

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 00:32
Kelly, I can't keep up with you. You certainly are prolific.

I wish I could help with your question about the Money Masters video, but I can't think of what bank Still could have been referring to that prints our money. The US treasury prints all the circulating paper money I know of, but they do it for the FED, on their orders, basically, when the Fed buys Treasury notes.

And more importantly, printed money is only a small fraction of the money in circulation, perhaps 3 percent. Most of it is electronic now, just data bits, 0s and 1s on some computers.

But I will see if I can find what you are seeking.

You might consider taking a break from all this. I'm concerned about your health. You can't do it all.

TTYL,

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 01:25
You are absolutely right, FedFixNix, those articles do raise some significant questions. According to the article at
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Official_gold_reserves


Well, there is another very obvious scenario, and that would be that not only would gold need to go up, our currency would like also likely need to be significantly devalued. This, of course, raises many more questions in terms of the proposed Amero.

Even then, it is very difficult for me to understand how one could possibly come up with a currency that was fully backed by gold.

They don't intend to back anything with gold, other than themselves. They will back the new currencies, just as they back the present ones. They will back them with fiat, or power, just as they do now.

You really are doing a fine job working through all this, but you really should be doing this in the company of others who can help with your brainstorming. I've missed a few things, more than just that the EU is one combined central bank now, and has more gold stored there than the US.


So if that is their ultimate game plan, how do you see this coming about? What do you think, people? How could they do it? It seems to me like one would also need to severely contract the number of dollars in circulation, as well as manipulate a severe stock market crash in order to also remove dollars from the stock exchanges. Then would they devalue the dollar and raise the price of gold?

There are several scenarios, or combinations of scenarios with various details, involving inflation and deflation of different monies, commodities and markets.


Obviously, when you look at how much gold each country holds, America is the only country that could possibly go on a gold reserve system. Even if China, Russia and India combined forces, they don't have near as much gold as the US does. At $1000 an ounce, the total value of America's gold holdings is $261,492,025,000. Interesting...

Yeah, interesting, but not all that relevant. I don't have time now to write all this out, nor is this even the proper place to do so. You are still looking at this as if it were a big game of Monopoly where the nations were playing for all the gold.

But that simply is not the case now, if it ever was.

The mere fact that gold is stored or vaulted in a particular country does not mean it belongs to the people of that nation. More specifically, the gold does not belong to America or the USA, or France, or UK, or Australia.

It belongs to the private bankers who form the central banking systems of those countries or unions of countries.

The gold in the US vaults, including Ft. Knox (the largest single depositary) hasn't belonged to the people, or the US government, in decades. It has all been legally transferred to the private bankers as part of their "arrangement" for the US allowing them to enslave us. We turned over our "sovereignty" to the bankers a long time ago. Among the rights of "sovereignty" is the historical right to issue and control a nation's currency. We gave that up to the bankers.

The gold is no longer ours. It's "theirs". They can do whatever they want with it... keep it here.. send it to Switzerland... or ship it to the Antarctic.... or drop it into the Marianas Trench.

When are we going to "get it"? The central and international bankers issue and control our money, they own the gold that once backed our money, (the world's money) and so they get to do whatever they want. They write the laws. They own the books. They own the gold.. they make the rules.

Now, it is true that the US government, or any nation's government, can put a stop to all this at any time they choose. The bankers use the most powerful governments, and their military forces, as collection agencies and "enforcers" of their will in any given matter. Of course actual "enforcement" is seldom needed. The threat of it is generally sufficient.

Our constitution gives congress the right to issue and control money. They (congress) gave it away to the bankers, they can take it back. The problem is, of course, that 90% of them are bought and paid for by the bankers, and so the "will" just isn't there to do anything... nor the backbone.

I'll have to catch you up later. It's past my bedtime.

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 11:24
Kelly, On rereading my post, I may have not expressed myself very well on the issue of currency backing. It is possible that they come up with a gold-backed paper or electronic currency. And you are basically correct in your thinking.

But I'm not sure if you fully comprehend that the Amero is just a pit stop for them, as will be the Samero, the Aisio, or any other regional or continental consolidations. It's the Newo, or Uno, that is their goal.... a one world currency. And we, the nations, won't tell them how its backed or valued. They will tell us what we will get, and that will be that. There is nothing democratic or representative in the makup or thinking of these people.

The point is that whether the currency is gold or silver backed or fiat, they will have or control all of most of the world's gold, as well as most other forms of concentrated wealth - diamonds - PMs - oil - whatever.

They can play around with gold and silver revaluation and devaluation, monetary backing, currency markets, derivatives and hedge funds, or anything else, any way they want.

They can pin one or another currency to gold, or platinum. However, they must either reduce the currency units to match the market value of the underlying asset, or adjust and fix the price of the asset to match the money units in circulation.

This is a huge problem in today's worldwide markets, so they have to do this in concert with all the players (nations) in those markets and economies.

But with all these central banks and IMF and so on sitting on gold valued at $40./oz who, exactly, is going to profit the most from an increase in gold from $900/oz to $9,000/oz and more? I might become a millionaire (assuming they let me keep it) but they will all become trillionaires and quadrillionaires.

They can make the dollar worthless, or make the ruble the world's strongest money unit, or the Yen, and can rotate between them, or the Swiss Franc... whatever.

They can pin the Amero, Samero, or NeWO to gold, or silver, or oil, or whatever they choose, and revalue those commodities as they see fit. (Which is whatever is most profitable and controlling to them, and least profitable and enslaving for the masses.)

There people are far "smarter than the average bear" or bull. They play with markets and nations the way a cat plays with a mouse, or toy.

I guess my point is that I don't think anyone should damage their brains trying to figure out exactly what they are going to serve up next in terms of the big picture. Of course if one is in their inner circle, that's different. Then one isn't going to be reading this stuff anyway. They run the rumor mills and factories, and put out most fo the disinformation in the first place.

All this means is that there are so many ways to play this situation that it is difficult to choose among them. 100 so-called "experts" give you 100 different conflicting opinions. It seems like I read that many on a daily basis. But it is possible to come away with something of value now and then.

Gold and silver are probably going to be good investments, in moderation, and along with other essential liquid commodities. Real estate, especially farm acreage, will always have value, although its price may vary in depressions and booms.

The best defense in this situation, IMO, is to have recession-proof work skills that will be useful to you, your family, and your community regardless of what happens. And faith! Faith is the all-important glue that keeps families and communities together through good times and bad.

So keep the faith.

Kelly
10th April 2008, 11:35
You might consider taking a break from all this. I'm concerned about your health. You can't do it all

No need for concern. That was about an hours worth of new research for me, and the rest of the stuff I already had in my files. You must remember I've been researching this stuff for years, and have copious files I can draw from at the click of a mouse. I enjoy it; it's my idea of fun.


They don't intend to back anything with gold, other than themselves. They will back the new currencies, just as they back the present ones. They will back them with fiat, or power, just as they do now.

I disagree. I think one of the major trading blocks is going to try to back their currency (at least partially) with gold and I suspect they've been setting the world up for that since the day the central banks demonetized gold and silver and went to totally fiat no reserve currencies. There are too many economists, politicians, newscasters and voters talking about it today. It's become a very popular idea among people who are already looking with disdain at the Fed and are talking about how to solve the money problems. I personally think gold will not solve the currency problem for several reasons, but those reasons probably won't really matter in the long run. The trading block that can at least partially back it's currency with gold will become the trading block that becomes the world's reserve currency for commodities, and that includes food, oil, and much of the base supplies necessary for manufacturing.


You are still looking at this as if it were a big game of Monopoly where the nations were playing for all the gold.

Actually, I think it really is a big game of monopoly, and the big central banks are actually playing for the gold right now, but only because there is a behind the scenes struggle going on between the bankers who back the Euro versus the bankers who are backing whatever the "North American Community" (as the SPP and CFR put it) is going to be. That struggle is not only very real, it is also very obvious.

FedFixNix, please think about it. We wouldn't even be in Iraq today, much less be thinking about attacking Iran if those countries had not declared their intent to sell their oil in Euros rather than dollars. No matter what reasons are "officially" declared by the media and the governments, the REAL struggle is indeed the game of monopoly being played by the bankers. The battle is being fought because the people behind Central Bank of the US (i.e. the Fed) are battling for their life against the people running the Euro Central Bank.

The people behind the Euro knew exactly what they were doing when they convinced Saddam to sell his oil in Euros. I am not being silly or in the least bit naïve about it. The European banker (I've mentioned him in other threads) that I met back in the mid eighties was one of the bankers who was already setting up the "United States of Europe." He talked about it all the time. Furthermore he made it very clear that he was working in tandem with an organization of European bankers and industrialists who single mindedly were working together and had one primary goal. That goal, which I heard over and over again over the course of 18 months, was their dedicated intent "to destroy America."

He wasn't working alone. Europe has its own "Skull and Bones" type organizations too, and the banker in question belonged to the primary "secret organization" of Europe; it's called the Priory de Sion. You probably have only heard of that organization because of the now famous book and the movie "The Da Vinci Code." But that group exists, it certainly existed in 1985-1986 anyway, and the men in that secret organization were even then working on a plan where the new currency they were setting up would become the world's new reserve currency. As I heard it back in '85, you couldn't belong to that organization unless you could prove your bloodlines back to King Solomon. Actually, half the nobility and aristocracy of Europe can probably do that. They can trace their bloodlines back to Solomon through the bloodlines of the mysterious princess from King Solomon's line that escaped Babylonian captivity way back in 600 BC. She is talked about in the Biblical book of Jeremiah. She escaped into Egypt and from there sailed across the Mediterranean to Europe, and eventually ended up in Ireland where she was known as Tei Tepi or "Queen Tara." She carried with her the "Jacob Stone"; the stone cherished by ancient Israel that was taken to Ireland and eventually ended up known as the "coronation stone" that still sits under the throne of England to this very day. The famous "Merovingian bloodlines" stem from this Jewish Queen, and ultimately many of the famous monarchies can trace their bloodlines back to her. This is especially true of the "money-changers" that began as goldsmiths who ultimately controlled all the central banks of Europe.

Among the many long and often heated conversations I had with this European banker, he said to me one day, "You don't know who I am, do you?" And I honestly didn't know who he was, because he was using an alias. He then said, "I own Guardian Royal Assurance" as if I was supposed to be terribly impressed. Actually, I had no idea what he was talking about. He also talked incessantly about the secret organization he belonged to telling me that it came into being "because ancient records were found in the Chalet next to the one where I grew up on in the South of France that tells how my family and others are the descendants of Solomon. (Jesus, by the way, was never mentioned.) Soon after that he and I parted ways on rather unfriendly terms.

Eventually, I found out a great deal more about Guardian Royal Assurance and the mysterious organization the Euro banker belonged to, thanks to the research of three remarkable author-researchers; Michael Baigent, Richard Leigh and Henry Lincoln. They wrote the books, "Holy Blood, Holy Grail" and "The Messianic Legacy," and more or less blew the whistle on the Priory de Sion. Most of the intrigue found in Dan Brown's famous novel, "The Da Vinci Code" is based on the research found in these books.

I didn't find those books and read them until 3-4 years after I had parted ways with the peculiar banker I'd met, never-the-less I found absolute proof that the group this banker was working with was indeed the Prieure de Sion. And, as "The Messianic Legacy" makes very clear, Guardian Royal Assurance, one of the oldest insurance-assurance firms in Europe, has a very distinct connection to this mysterious organization which is quite correctly rumored to be the real "shadow government" behind the European Union.

FedFixNix, if you think for a single moment that there is not a HUGE struggle going on behind the scenes between the bankers behind the Euro and the bankers behind the Fed, you are seriously mistaken, my friend. The war in Iraq going on now is being fought to keep the Middle Eastern oil companies from trading their oil in Euros!

And I can PROMISE you, the European banking cartel knew exactly what they were doing when they talked Saddam into trading in Euros. The bankers behind the Euro got exactly what they wanted. Open your eyes and just look at what has happened! Has America's standing as a world leader fallen to zip because of that war? Yep! Has our dollar been radically weakened because of that war? Yep! And are OPEC nations and the other oil trading nations now seriously on the move to trading oil only in Euros? Yep!

Do you think all of this has happened as a mere "coincidence"? Oh, don't be naïve! These things have happened because they are part and parcel of the plan the bankers behind the Euro have been putting into operation for decades and decades. I heard all about it back in 1985!

That same banker walked into my apartment laughing on Monday, July 8th, 1985, and said, (and I quote!) "We just set up Ollie North. Hahahahaha. We are going to make your government look like FOOLS! Hahahahaha." FedFixNix, that date was just three days after former CIA head, William Casey, shook hands with McFarlane on the Iran-Contra deal! The story didn't even break press until October of 1986!

The banker I knew was the guy that kindly offered to set up the arms for drugs trade for the CIA! That whole damn thing had been planned by the men who were working to arrange the European Union. Essentially, they suckered our government into the Iran-Contra affair, just like they suckered our government into going to war against Iraq.

Follow the money, FedFixNix, and look at the BIG PICTURE. Who has ultimately come out on top because of the War in Iraq? Was it the bankers behind the Fed or the bankers behind the Euro? Follow the money on who shorted all the stocks just days before the 9/11 attack. Does that money lead to the Fed, or to a major bank in Europe?

FedFixNix, I've got the greatest respect for you, but you really need to stand back and look at the whole game that's been going on. And if you don't think it isn't a game of monopoly to see which banking consortium will ultimately become the new reserve currency as the nations loose their sovereignty and become trading blocks, think again.

It's a game of power. And though all the world's central banks belong to organizations like the IMF, there is a very big internal struggle going on behind the scenes between various banking cartels, and it's all about which cartel gets to become the reserve currency in the New World Order scheme of things.

Those bankers may all smile broadly at every photo op, clasp hands firmly, kiss each other on the cheeks and pat each other's backs in a big show of solidarity for the press. But don't kid yourself. Behind that façade of smiles, there is a very big power struggle going on.

And I rather suspect that he who has the most gold will win.

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 12:16
Kelly,

You did a whole lot of talking down to me in your last post that I find inappropriate.

You say that I am naive, yet I already knew all that you said above that was accurate, an most of it is. But I know a whole lot more that I am not about to write here.

And you are beginning to make a whole lot of assumptions about what I know or don't know that are simply wrong.

I'm not going to get into a pissing contest here, or anywhere else. I have not yet said so, but it is I who think your assessments are rather mildly naive, although far less so than others.


I disagree. I think one of the major trading blocks is going to try to back their currency (at least partially) with gold and I suspect they've been setting the world up for that since the day the central banks demonetized gold and silver and went to totally fiat no reserve currencies.

I've already gone over this ground in other places, either here on on the Kitco forums. That is unlikely to happen. First, I don't know how you "partially" back a currency with gold. It's like being "partially" pregnant. Either it is or it isn't. Second, the first nation or union to back its currency with gold will have its currency hoarded, and used as reserves, or cashed in for gold. Eventually that nation's gold will be gone, drained away to other nations.

It simply can't work without ALL nations going to a gold standard. And that my dear Kelly, is the game plan. ONE WORLD CURRENCY... backed by gold... or so they will claim. Actually it will not be redeemable for gold, so the claim of gold backing is illusory, like so many other "claims". It's just more doublespeak.


There are too many economists, politicians, newscasters and voters talking about it today. It's become a very popular idea among people who are already looking with disdain at the Fed and are talking about how to solve the money problems. I personally think gold will not solve the currency problem for several reasons, but those reasons probably won't really matter in the long run. The trading block that can at least partially back it's currency with gold will become the trading block that becomes the world's reserve currency for commodities, and that includes food, oil, and much of the base supplies necessary for manufacturing.


What are these "trading blocks"? Why do you think those who look with disdain upon the Fed matter to the Fed? Or any other international central bankers?

Kelly, this has been an attempt on my part to help people arrive at some larger truths, particularly you, because you have the potential to see the "big picture". The picture you now see is big, far bigger than most see, but its still not the "big picture".

Now I am no longer finding this a productive use of my time. If you want to hook up with me via telephone and discuss these matters, or attend some of the monetary reform conferences coming up, I'll happily oblige.

But squabbling over who is naive, or who has the more accurate big picture is not something I want to further engage in here.

Kelly
10th April 2008, 13:42
Kelly, this has been an attempt on my part to help people arrive at some larger truths, particularly you, because you have the potential to see the "big picture". The picture you now see is big, far bigger than most see, but its still not the "big picture".

Now I am no longer finding this a productive use of my time. If you want to hook up with me via telephone and discuss these matters, or attend some of the monetary reform conferences coming up, I'll happily oblige.

And are the people involved with these monetary reforms the bankers behind the Fed or the Euro? Did the leaders of this monetary reform group spend 18 months arguing it out nose to nose with one of the king pins setting up the European Union? Well, did they? In my estimation, whether you or your reform group likes it or not, I am afraid the real power behind the Fed and the European Union will simply ignore your intent and reforms.

The banker I met would just laugh at your group, and then he'd squash you like you were little bugs. He had no guilt. He had not an ounce of forgiveness in him. He simply did not care about what you or I or anybody else thought or wanted. I would, in fact, judge him as being someone who is criminally insane, but he was one of the wealthiest men in the world and he was sick with a desire for more and more power. Maybe it is something in their blood and DNA that drives men like that, I don't really know, but like it or not that group set up the European Union and he is one of the primary money men behind the Euro today.

How does your reform group plan to deal with men like that? You can educate all of us all you want to, and nobody is going to say you are wrong or that your goals are misplaced. But it doesn’t matter how educated we are on currency reform. It doesn't matter if we know how horrid institutions like the Fed are.

Those men don't care what you think. Your group, no matter how well intentioned it is, has to get through groups of men like the man I met. He's been paying people off in the CIA for years. He hires the lobbyists that manipulate Washington DC. If he wants a piece of legislation passed, he doesn't need some grassroots effort group petitioning Washington to get a bill passed. He just attaches a rider to a bill he knows congress wants to pass, and since most congressmen never read the bills anyway, they don't even know they voted something into law that was ultimately part of the Euro game plan.


But squabbling over who is naive, or who has the more accurate big picture is not something I want to further engage in here.

I sincerely apologize if I ruffled your tail feathers, but never-the-less, I do believe it is naïve to think that your efforts for monetary reform are going to make any difference at all to these men. They are not going to listen to your reform because they have all the money, and in the real world, unfortunately, those that have the money make the rules.

I'd love to see that changed and I sincerely applaud your efforts to educate people about monetary reform.

But the bottom line is there are very wealthy crooks running the show, and no amount of reform is going to be effective at stopping them. Unless your monetary theory reform group has a plan and knows how to put the entire bunch of these guys in jail so we can throw away the keys, I don't see any possibility for success.

FedFixNix, you and your group are comprised of bright, kind and honorable men who who genuinely have the people's welfare at heart. I know that. But you are up against something that is evil beyond your wildest dreams. I did not mean to say anything to offend you, but you must understand the kind of men we are up against.

One day, as that banker and I sat in my living room arguing about theory, philosophy and the world, I turned to him and said, "You and I are not working the same side of the street. I don't think we are even working for the same god system. I think you are working for the anti-Christ."

And do you know what he did? He crossed his arms over his chest, looked me in the eye, smiled and then simply said with great glee and satisfaction, "I know."

At that moment, to be honest, I think my blood turned to cold-running cottage cheese. At that moment I finally understood what we are up against.

And it is ugly, it is evil and it's bigger than you and me or any monetary reform group.

True story.

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. This process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money and with the flick of a pen they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear. And they ought to disappear for this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the price for your own slavery, then let bankers continue to control credit and create money." – Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England, 1928-1941 (reported to be the second richest man in England at the time.)

Kelly
10th April 2008, 15:25
I've already gone over this ground in other places, either here on on the Kitco forums. That is unlikely to happen. First, I don't know how you "partially" back a currency with gold. It's like being "partially" pregnant. Either it is or it isn't. Second, the first nation or union to back its currency with gold will have its currency hoarded, and used as reserves, or cashed in for gold. Eventually that nation's gold will be gone, drained away to other nations.

"The 30th anniversary of Richard Nixon's closing of the gold window was hardly mentioned in the financial press.

In one article posted on August 12 at Miningweb.com, a mining trade publication, Nixon's dastardly act is described by writer Tim Wood: The Executive Order "unplugged the U.S. dollar from its gold life support," bringing about "the longest period a gold standard has been absent from the international system."

In effect, Nixon’s dictatorial Executive Order cancelled the dollar/gold exchange rate established 27 years earlier, when foreign central banks were allowed to claim an ounce of American gold for US$35. By his single stroke, Tricky Dick cut any relationship the US dollar had to gold."

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blumert/blumert35.html

Well, prior to Nixon's executive orders, it sure looks to me like America was "a little bit pregnant" then. While no American citizen could turn FRNs in for gold, the central banks of other nations certainly could.

This is just one way a currency can be partially backed by gold. Another way might be to allow Central Banks to trade in 30% of their held dollars (or Euros or Ameros as the case may be) for gold.

Like it or not, there are just too many economists today screaming that we return to a gold standard. It has been my observation that when the controlled media reports the opinions of these economists, that is only because the Council on Foreign Relations and the Fed has given them their approval to do so. Were the Fed not encouraging all this talk of returning to a gold standard, the press and the rest of the media would not say a word about it.

I honestly don't think that there would be all this talk about returning to a gold standard in the media today, unless the Fed was encouraging it in spades. I think the Fed is very obviously inflating the currency at the same time that they are contracting credit (as in the housing market) and this seems to be the standard blueprint they have used in the past to create economic collapse, and this time I think they are doing so in preparation for a new currency.

I don't know what they are planning, but I do think the proposed Amero will in some way be partially backed by gold. I don't like it either, never-the-less, I think the Fed sees that as the only way they can retain their position as the kingpins of a currency that becomes the world's reserve currency. That's where the real power is and that's what they want, and I think the Fed is going to do everything it can to accomplish that goal. I also think the bankers behind the Euro are very aware of what the Fed intends to do, and will ultimately decide to follow suit or come up with a game plan of their own.

These guys are playing deadly games, but it IS a game of monopoly, and either the bankers behind the Euro or the bankers behind the Fed are going to be in control of the world's next reserve currency. If they have to back their currencies with gold in order to win the game, I don't think they'll bat an eye at it.

Gold is the ultimate medium of exchange when you are intent upon buying power. And these guys love power. They feed off of it. They always have.

While I truly understand and applaud the concerns and well-thought out opinions of the various monetary groups which oppose a gold standard, I honestly don't know how you are going to change long-held public opionion about it.

“You have to choose [as a voter] between trusting to the natural stability of gold and the natural stability of the honesty and intelligence of the members of the Government. And, with due respect for these gentlemen, I advise you, as long as the Capitalist system lasts, to vote for gold." - George Bernard Shaw

I totally agree with FedFixNix that returning to a gold standard will only keep the power in the hands of the wealthy few. I totally understand why he is against it. But I don't know how you stop a runaway freight train. Sooner or later Nix is right, any economy based on gold will get drained of its gold reserves. But when that happens, until the people actually have some power to change things, they'll probably just return to a worldwide fiat currency again. Things seem to run in cycles.

FedFixNix
10th April 2008, 17:18
And are the people involved with these monetary reforms the bankers behind the Fed or the Euro?

I can't believe you could have read all of my posts here and still ask me that question.

Neither.


Did the leaders of this monetary reform group spend 18 months arguing it out nose to nose with one of the king pins setting up the European Union?

Maybe... Maybe not. I don't see how its relevant. When you understand what is going on.... you understand what is going on! Period.


Well, did they? In my estimation, whether you or your reform group likes it or not, I am afraid the real power behind the Fed and the European Union will simply ignore your intent and reforms.

Of course they will. Do you think me stupid? I said the same to you earlier. I know exactly who we are dealing with here. Exactly. And a lot more.


The banker I met would just laugh at your group, and then he'd squash you like you were little bugs. He had no guilt. He had not an ounce of forgiveness in him. He simply did not care about what you or I or anybody else thought or wanted.

And I keep trying to tell you... I know all of that, and more. We are not getting anywhere here.


I would, in fact, judge him as being someone who is criminally insane, but he was one of the wealthiest men in the world and he was sick with a desire for more and more power. Maybe it is something in their blood and DNA that drives men like that, I don't really know, but like it or not that group set up the European Union and he is one of the primary money men behind the Euro today.

We I know exactly what "drives" such men, and I have known many such men myself.


How does your reform group plan to deal with men like that? You can educate all of us all you want to, and nobody is going to say you are wrong or that your goals are misplaced. But it doesn’t matter how educated we are on currency reform. It doesn't matter if we know how horrid institutions like the Fed are.

Sorry, but you are just wrong about this. It always matters. The truth is always the truth, and it always matters. And I can't answer for any money reform groups, whether I am a part of them or not. I can only answer for myself. So again, your question is misdirected.


Those men don't care what you think. Your group, no matter how well intentioned it is, has to get through groups of men like the man I met. He's been paying people off in the CIA for years. He hires the lobbyists that manipulate Washington DC. If he wants a piece of legislation passed, he doesn't need some grassroots effort group petitioning Washington to get a bill passed. He just attaches a rider to a bill he knows congress wants to pass, and since most congressmen never read the bills anyway, they don't even know they voted something into law that was ultimately part of the Euro game plan.

Your preaching to the choir, Kelly. I keep telling you, I know all of that. I understand far more than you keep assuming I understand, and unless you have a deep knowledge and comprehension of some recently revealed esoteric knowledge, then I probably have a far greater comprehension of these matters than you.


I sincerely apologize if I ruffled your tail feathers, but never-the-less, I do believe it is naïve to think that your efforts for monetary reform are going to make any difference at all to these men.

I don't have tail-feathers, and I don't get ruffled. I just don't like wasting my time, or being talked down to, or having assumptions made about my thoughts that are just wrong.

I'm beginning to think you are having difficulty understanding my words. Let me make myself clear: I have no thought of influencing or making a difference to these power elites of which we both speak. That would indeed be stupid, and if you think that is what I think then I can see why you would be talking to me the way you are.

Can we finish with this point? I am in no way, shape or form hoping to change any of these evil men of whom we are speaking, nor is it necessary to do so.

Next point:


They are not going to listen to your reform because they have all the money, and in the real world, unfortunately, those that have the money make the rules.

Whoops... still on that last point. My mistake. Why do you keep parroting this stuff back to me that I have so often written in other places? Now hear this: I don't expect them to listen to my, or anyone else's reforms! Why do you keep making such ridiculous assumptions about my intentions? That's what is irritating, because it is a waste of my time. For a while we were having an informative dialogue. Now it has devolved into a series of straw men that I'm having to knock down, just to try to communicate on a real basis.


I'd love to see that changed and I sincerely applaud your efforts to educate people about monetary reform.

Thank you, but you keep missing the point. Education about money is the only way the needed social changes will ever happen... whether now or ten centuries from now. Is your vision so limited that you can only see the immediate future? This is a very long term game plan.


But the bottom line is there are very wealthy crooks running the show, and no amount of reform is going to be effective at stopping them. Unless your monetary theory reform group has a plan and knows how to put the entire bunch of these guys in jail so we can throw away the keys, I don't see any possibility for success.

That may be the bottom line that you
see. It is not the one I see. Nor is it even close. That is only a starting point, not the bottom line.


FedFixNix, you and your group are comprised of bright, kind and honorable men who who genuinely have the people's welfare at heart. I know that. But you are up against something that is evil beyond your wildest dreams. I did not mean to say anything to offend you, but you must understand the kind of men we are up against.

Once again, you make completely false assumptions. I know full well what the evil is that we are discussing. I probably know more than you about it, because it goes back a lot further than the "ancient bloodlines" that you mention, and Solomon is fairly modern history compared to the timeline of this evil's origins. The Merovingians are new kids on the block when compared to these bloodlines. They go back tens and hundreds of thousands of years.


One day, as that banker and I sat in my living room arguing about theory, philosophy and the world, I turned to him and said, "You and I are not working the same side of the street. I don't think we are even working for the same god system. I think you are working for the anti-Christ.

Well... there's a "bingo". So what else is new?


And do you know what he did? He crossed his arms over his chest, looked me in the eye, smiled and then simply said with great glee and satisfaction, "I know."

Yes, and I know too.


At that moment, to be honest, I think my blood turned to cold-running cottage cheese. At that moment I finally understood what we are up against.


I fully understand, Kelly. Fully. And that's what I have been trying to get across to you. I've had similar conversations myself, and have known of these things for decades.


And it is ugly, it is evil and it's bigger than you and me or any monetary reform group. True story.

True story? Yes. True conclusion? No. It is evil, but evil is never bigger than the truth, or the source of truth. We are talking about the powers of light and life here, versus the powers of darkness.

Light always dispels darkness. By definition, darkness is an absence of light. When you turn on your light the darkness fades into nothing.

I am not advocating direct confrontation, only education, and non-violent action.

Peace,

Kelly
10th April 2008, 21:19
FedFixNix, I sure wish you would just lighten up a bit. This is a debate on a public forum and I have made no personal attacks against you. If you took what I write to the group at large as some personal attack against you, I am sorry. However I did not intend it to come across that way; I actually have a great deal of personal respect for you and you should know that by now. I feel you are taking it personally because you are involved with a monetary reform group that is adamantly against a gold standard. I don't disagree with those concepts, I am simply pointing out that the odds don't look very good that the powers that be are going to do anything that you might like. Nix, please understand that half the time when I am using the word "you", it is not being addressed to you personally, but to the 600 plus other people (so far) who are also reading this thread.


Light always dispels darkness. By definition, darkness is an absence of light. When you turn on your light the darkness fades into nothing.

I am not advocating direct confrontation, only education.

Education is well and good, but I firmly believe that in educating people, those at the forefront should make it perfectly clear that any hope, no matter how good, and just and right it is, that we can possibly change what Washington DC, the Fed and the Council on Foreign Relations have planned for us is, I fear, at this point, little more than a pipe dream. I simply don't see it happening. Hope is good, but when we teach people to hope for something that is not likely going to take place any time in the near future, that hope can turn to bitter disappointment very quickly. Hope turned to bitterness is something that can steal the light from all good souls. These are dark times, and false hope can quickly become a cruel joke if that hope fails. So, in discussing these issues on a public forum I have to be realistic about the odds we face.

To illustrate, I just read the speech that Obama made on 2-20-08. Anyone who is even vaguely familiar with the plans of the SPP and NAU can clearly see those same goals parroted in Obama's speech. I must say, I find this very, very disappointing, but it doesn't surprise me.

http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/dn/opinion/viewpoints/stories/DN-obama_20edi.ART.State.Edition1.464da8e.html

It looks like the plans to end our national sovereignty are probably going to happen, whether its Obama, Hilary, or McCain that wins the election.

My concern is for the people. We are not likely going to change the Fed any time soon. We are not likely going to be able to change the national ID act, nor are we likely going to be able to change the use of RFID tags and implants. I'm sorry to say those things are already being implemented. Everything that we buy and sell using the national currency system is going to be tracked down to the last dollar, and they will be able to track everyone's movements through our driver's licenses and ID cards. They will be able to track us every time we get in our cars and leave our homes. If you take out a loan for a car, the car will be fitted with a devise that will make it so the engine will not turn over if you are even late on a car payment. This machine won't care if the child support check didn't come in the mail, or the guy you did the carpentry work for gave you a check that bounced. These machines will not listen to any excuse, no matter how justified it may be.

http://www.ajc.com/ajccars/content/ajccars/content/stories/2008/03/28/carpay_0329.html

These things aren't happening in some far away future. They are happening in our now and in the very near future. I don't like it any better than anybody else does, but I don't suggest to anyone that they openly fight it, because if you do, I think that it's either going to get people killed or thrown into detention camps, and I'm sorry to say, it looks like those detention camps are ready and waiting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

I've seen footage of similar detention camps already set up in all parts of our country. FEMA and the military appears to have spent quite a bit of money refurbishing these places, and it's my guess that they have very explicit plans for people who dare protest or defy whatever it is they are planning on doing. If it's just a "conspiracy theory," then that damned barbed wire shouldn't even be there, should it?

I think everybody is going to need their well-hidden stash of silver in the days to come. And people shouldn't worry too much about whether people will accept silver for goods rather than the national currency. Whatever it is that the government is planning, they apparently already know that it is not likely going to be very popular among the people. I suspect there will be a whole lot of people in this nation that will be happy to trade goods and services for silver. Doing so will likely become a personal act of non-violent defiance against whatever it is the powers that be have planned for us. After all, the last time I checked, there were still some very stubborn people in this nation, and I don't think very many of us are planning to kowtow to anything that looks even remotely like a fascist regime.

If we are going to fight it, however, it should not be with guns and pipe bombs, because that's only going to make matters a whole lot worse for everybody.

FedFixNix? If you can see your way clear to stop being mad at me, I honestly think you have a very important role to play. What people REALLY need is a simple way to set up an alternative currency system in their own communities, and the "LETS system probably isn't going to cut it. My community in Oregon, for instance, can grow plenty of apples and peaches and pears, but we sure can't grow oranges and avocados. My community will need a way to trade a community in California or Arizona our boxes of apples for their boxes of oranges, and we would like to be able to affiliate this trade WITHOUT having to go through the official currency system.

So, how do you suggest we put together a plan so we can do this? How can somebody like DaveK's community in Nebraska, trade his wheat for the fresh fruits and veggies his climate may not be able to grow? A LETS type program works well if you only need to trade with people within your own community, but, if there is going to be an ORGANIZED non-violent refusal to back whatever nasty little plan the Fed has in store for our future, then I suspect that a whole lot of people would be VERY interested in NOT backing whatever currency system the Fed and the Government have planned.

And a guy like trvl45 who drives truck for a living could also play an important role, because he could help organize truckers so that they will help transport trade between communities across this nation who would prefer NOT to use the Fed currency and banking system. The truckers of this nation are already very aware of what the NAU and the Kansas City SmartPort means. Truckers already have seen the Trans Texas highway started. They don't like it, and truckers know how to organize very quickly.

I suspect it's going to be important, because every Christian in this country already knows they CANNOT buy and sell using any currency that remotely speaks of the "mark of the beast" or they break one of the primary laws of our faith. And we were all left very specific messages that doing so would have some serious long term repercussions for the rest of our eternal lives. (Rev 3:5, 13:8, 13:17, 22:19 etc.) People can laugh at me if they want to, but using the currency of "the beast" is just not a gamble I am willing to take, and I rather suspect there are a good many other people in this country who feel precisely the same way.

FedFixNix? I know that silver is one option, but there are going to be a whole lot of people out there that won't have a stash on hand; single moms with kids, for instance, or the people on fixed incomes today who have very little savings. The people who will not back the new national currency, whether it be for religious beliefs or because they simply don't like what it represents, and going to NEED an alternative currency they can count on to trade with. That currency may not be accepted at the local Wal-Mart or Home Depot where only the national currency will be used, but still, an alternative currency will probably be accepted by all people who refuse to trade in the national currency.

In order to set up an alternative currency, FedFixNix, what do you think we need to do?

FedFixNix, you are the most qualified person on this forum to help us figure that out. We really do need to start working on an alternative currency program; and it needs to be one that will be acceptable to people in all parts of our nation who will refuse to use the New Currency system the Fed seems to be planning. I suspect there will be people in Canada and Mexico as well who will refuse to use the NAU currency too.

And every single one of us needs to understand that food is going to also be used as currency in the days to come. So far, what we've been going through in this nation in terms of rising food prices is nothing to what is going on elsewhere. We've been very lucky to date. But it's getting really, really bad out there for the rest of the world…

http://abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4628103&page=1

FedFixNix
11th April 2008, 00:06
Some really good points and questions here Kelly.


FedFixNix, I sure wish you would just lighten up a bit.

I thought I was talking about "light" in my last post ;)


This is a debate on a public forum and I have made no personal attacks against you.

Nor I you. Sorry if you took anything that way.


If you took what I write to the group at large as some personal attack against you, I am sorry. However I did not intend it to come across that way; I actually have a great deal of personal respect for you and you should know that by now.

No, Kelly, I didn't take it as an attack. I thought I was clear that we were not communicating, and why. But I also have great respect for you and you should know that as well by now.


I feel you are taking it personally because you are involved with a monetary reform group that is adamantly against a gold standard.

But that is simply not the case. I already explained what was bothering me in your last few posts. And the fact that I am involved in supporting the American Monetary Institute (www.monetary.org ) really has nothing at all to do with my own thinking in this area, and I never let someone else do my thinking for me.

I am against the gold or silver standard for far more reasons than I could enumerate here in 6 months of postings. People simply will not be able to understand the reasons without unlearning much of what they have been taught, and then getting a new education about money and its history... the real history. I will only sum up by saying that a return to a gold standard would only vastly aid in the world's economic enslavement and the establishment of a totalitarian NWO. That will be the result of trying to return to the gold standard.

But I am also growing weary of the time investment on this forum, where we have scattered these discussions over four or five main threads and dozens of others. I just don't have enough time left on this planet to waste it any further.

This kind of brainstorming needs to be done within each readers community, on a one to one basis, in living rooms, and town hall type meeting rooms, or churches, mosques, and such.

Teleconferencing might be fine for a while, but that will become too dangerous after a time. Internet freedom to hold discussions like this are going to become a thing of the past, and those who do so are going to become targets and prospects for your concentration ... ah... "re-education" camps.

I fully understand that the eyeballs are rolling, but I could care less. (Not yours, Kelly, but others) 1984 will look a little different from Orwell's book, but the essentials are all there. Those who haven't read it, should.


Of the remaining points in your post, I just want to say one more time that we are on the same page about not wanting to misinform or give false hopes to the people about reforms. I know that, but I also know that things are changing rapidly, and that when conditions change, so to the prospects for great social, spiritual and economic changes. I don't think that preparing people for that eventuality is giving them false hopes, or pipe dreams.

You seem to think that is what I am about, but believe me, I am not. What I am about is the de-programming of our citizens from 225 years of disinformation regarding money, freedom, education, democracy, government, and social dynamics.

One more time, I don't think this is the appropriate forum to get into these depths on these issues. I'd like to have you, me, DaveK, and a few other creative thinkers find another venue or forum to take this further, so that we each might take home something of value here, and pass it on.

I should make it clear that I agree with what you are saying in the rest of your last post.

Stock up on an emergency stash of gold or silver, preferably in small denominations, and in physical possession. Take other appropriate survival measures, depending on individual situations and circumstances. It may be a good time to get to know your neighbors better, and engage in more community activities. Networks are good, and I'm not talking about just electronic ones.

Money is a complex topic for reasons you touched upon and more. Local community money is fairly easy, but community to community trade might be harder than foreign trade is now.

The problem is that we can't see or know the exact circumstances or scenario that will unfold, and so all we can do is make some general preparations, and try to allow for the most likely scenarios.

I'm open for suggestions about where to take this discussion, but it is taking up way too much of my time now, and it seems to me that you, Kelly, are also putting in even more than I.

Now it is good night and god speed,

Kelly
11th April 2008, 11:40
Well, time is the only thing I've got plenty of right now. True, I never know when my time is going to run out, none of us do, but I don't mind sharing my time with others, especially if it is aimed at doing something that will help us all improve our odds in the days to come. And frankly, I don't want to move to another forum because I happen to like a whole lot of the people in this one. People who are already into buying silver are people who are generally already looking at the economy, thinking to themselves, "Oh oh, it looks like it's getting close to SHTF time" and they've already taken a big step towards making sure they and their family have an alternative means of protecting their wealth against the economic collapse most folks these days are getting pretty worried about. We can all hope it doesn't happen, and we can also all hope that silver will go sky high and our wealth will grow, that's okay too, but anybody who has silver in their possession has already taken a big step towards "economic insurance" should the economy take a big nose dive.

I'm going to start a new thread called "The Peoples Alternative Life Support System" (PALS) where we can talk about creating an alternative currency system and other ideas that are especially aimed at what everyday people can start doing today so if the SHTF, we'll all have a better chance. In the meantime, this system can also be used to benefit people right now, today.

Please come to the new thread and share your ideas, and please bring popcorn and beer and your good humor as well…

Look for it. It'll take me a while to type it up.

DaveK
11th April 2008, 15:25
It looks like the plans to end our national sovereignty are probably going to happen, whether its Obama, Hilary, or McCain that wins the election.


I tend to agree with that, it's like playing carnival games, you have to realize going into it that the game is rigged.



My concern is for the people. We are not likely going to change the Fed any time soon. We are not likely going to be able to change the national ID act, nor are we likely going to be able to change the use of RFID tags and implants. I'm sorry to say those things are already being implemented.


I'm not so sure that it cannot be changed. There are a few states that are very resistant to some of these things. That resistance comes from the people, and from the leaders that are getting support from those people. If those leaders don't feel that they are strongly backed by the people they represent it will be much harder for them to stand up to the federal government. At the very least that fight needs to be fought in order to draw the attention of more people.



it looks like those detention camps are ready and waiting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4


Any idea what the source for that video was? I'm curious how old it is and who produced it.

It does appear to be set up to handle lots of people who don't know what is happening. That isn't necessarily sinister though, facilities like that after Katrina hit would have been really helpful for organizing and managing the human evacuation of herds of confused people.

Naturally it would also be useful for handling, for example, 'refugees' from other countries that perhaps don't speak english and have a culture that is more difficult for Americans to identify with. Just saying..



I think everybody is going to need their well-hidden stash of silver in the days to come.


Not only that, but I think I'll see about improving my, uh, 'storm' shelter as well. If nothing else it would make a good conversation piece someday :)



This kind of brainstorming needs to be done within each readers community, on a one to one basis, in living rooms, and town hall type meeting rooms, or churches, mosques, and such.


I recently attended a seminar at the local community college, 'Global Dynamics of Power'. I was fascinated to find that while the broadcast pieces where fairly politically correct, the discussion leaders we had in the local presentation hall as well as the dozen or so people who attended were quite open to this subject. I and a friend who is like-minded put forth the idea that powers both within and without the government deliberately created and continue this Iraq war for profit and other more political purposes, and that large-scale economic wrangling was common and done both for profit and to undermine the sovereignty of existing nations. To my very great suprise there were nods of agreement around the room and not one objection, not even from the stereotypical young Republican economics teacher who was quite vocal on other topics.

Lately it is rare that I find people who haven't at least heard in passing something about this.

Kelly
11th April 2008, 15:56
Quote:
it looks like those detention camps are ready and waiting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0P-hvPJPTi4

Any idea what the source for that video was? I'm curious how old it is and who produced it.

It does appear to be set up to handle lots of people who don't know what is happening. That isn't necessarily sinister though, facilities like that after Katrina hit would have been really helpful for organizing and managing the human evacuation of herds of confused people.

Naturally it would also be useful for handling, for example, 'refugees' from other countries that perhaps don't speak english and have a culture that is more difficult for Americans to identify with. Just saying..

Good point, Dave, but there really are several of this type of video out there, and they all seem to be made by different people; some are slick and professional, and some look like they were made by kids. You'll find them on YouTube or GoogleVidio if you do a search on "detainment camps." I could buy the "helpful for organizing and managing the human evacuation of herds of confused people" theory if it were not for all the barbed wire and bars. In the event of an emergency, I don't like the idea of citizens being treated like animals. We all watched what FEMA and homeland security did with Katrina, and if that is the way the government sees "helping" people in an emergency, well screw 'em. In my book they failed and failed miserably.

If the government didn't want us to see those camps, there'd be armed guards around them preventing people from filming. To me it's like the government is saying "resistance is futile" to the people. I don't like it.


That resistance comes from the people, and from the leaders that are getting support from those people.

Oh I think non-violent resistance is absolutely necessary, big time, but at this point, I don't know if resistance will stop the government from carrying out their agenda. However, resistance movements will be very effective, no matter what happens, at keeping us alive and well. To date, resistance has primarily been centered around informing people and educating them about what that agenda is. Now a whole lot of us know, so it's time for the next leg of the resistance movement to take place. When we stop resisting, we've lost, and I don't want to think of myself or you as a loser.


Lately it is rare that I find people who haven't at least heard in passing something about this.

Good! Me too, and a year ago, practically nobody knew, but the last time I went down to the local watering hole, there were about six people sitting around sipping beer and talking about it. Truckers! God bless them! They're getting the word around...

Trvlr45
17th April 2008, 21:45
And are the people involved with these monetary reforms the bankers behind the Fed or the Euro? Did the leaders of this monetary reform group spend 18 months arguing it out nose to nose with one of the king pins setting up the European Union? Well, did they? In my estimation, whether you or your reform group likes it or not, I am afraid the real power behind the Fed and the European Union will simply ignore your intent and reforms.

The banker I met would just laugh at your group, and then he'd squash you like you were little bugs. He had no guilt. He had not an ounce of forgiveness in him. He simply did not care about what you or I or anybody else thought or wanted. I would, in fact, judge him as being someone who is criminally insane, but he was one of the wealthiest men in the world and he was sick with a desire for more and more power. Maybe it is something in their blood and DNA that drives men like that, I don't really know, but like it or not that group set up the European Union and he is one of the primary money men behind the Euro today.

How does your reform group plan to deal with men like that? You can educate all of us all you want to, and nobody is going to say you are wrong or that your goals are misplaced. But it doesn’t matter how educated we are on currency reform. It doesn't matter if we know how horrid institutions like the Fed are.

Those men don't care what you think. Your group, no matter how well intentioned it is, has to get through groups of men like the man I met. He's been paying people off in the CIA for years. He hires the lobbyists that manipulate Washington DC. If he wants a piece of legislation passed, he doesn't need some grassroots effort group petitioning Washington to get a bill passed. He just attaches a rider to a bill he knows congress wants to pass, and since most congressmen never read the bills anyway, they don't even know they voted something into law that was ultimately part of the Euro game plan.



I sincerely apologize if I ruffled your tail feathers, but never-the-less, I do believe it is naïve to think that your efforts for monetary reform are going to make any difference at all to these men. They are not going to listen to your reform because they have all the money, and in the real world, unfortunately, those that have the money make the rules.

I'd love to see that changed and I sincerely applaud your efforts to educate people about monetary reform.

But the bottom line is there are very wealthy crooks running the show, and no amount of reform is going to be effective at stopping them. Unless your monetary theory reform group has a plan and knows how to put the entire bunch of these guys in jail so we can throw away the keys, I don't see any possibility for success.

FedFixNix, you and your group are comprised of bright, kind and honorable men who who genuinely have the people's welfare at heart. I know that. But you are up against something that is evil beyond your wildest dreams. I did not mean to say anything to offend you, but you must understand the kind of men we are up against.

One day, as that banker and I sat in my living room arguing about theory, philosophy and the world, I turned to him and said, "You and I are not working the same side of the street. I don't think we are even working for the same god system. I think you are working for the anti-Christ."

And do you know what he did? He crossed his arms over his chest, looked me in the eye, smiled and then simply said with great glee and satisfaction, "I know."

At that moment, to be honest, I think my blood turned to cold-running cottage cheese. At that moment I finally understood what we are up against.

And it is ugly, it is evil and it's bigger than you and me or any monetary reform group.

True story.

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. This process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money and with the flick of a pen they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear. And they ought to disappear for this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the price for your own slavery, then let bankers continue to control credit and create money." – Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England, 1928-1941 (reported to be the second richest man in England at the time.)

Bingo, Kelly. The only way to put a stop to the people you are referring to is if the vast majority of the population in this country KNOW who is screwing us but they don't. What is worse is they don't care as long as it isn't affecting them. In my experience when you try to point this out to people they accuse you of being nuts. They would rather watch football, Oprah and American Idol than pay any attention to what is really going on around them.

I was always a big fan of Ronald Reagan because I thought he really did try to do what is best for the country. I never stopped to think where all the money came from to out-spend the Soviets which eventually bankrupted them and ended thier expansion. Now I know. We're paying for all that worthless paper now.

When you have a group of people with enough power and money to manipulate our Congress, Senate and President it's quite scary. Especially when they can assasinate them or get them impeached and get away with it. The big problem we have these days is that we have people who don't need to be manipulated. Just look at the damage the Bush/Clinton Crime Syndicate has done. I think Reagan was manipulated and lied to by his advisors and he had an evil Vice President he had to hold his nose to take. What we have now really enjoy selling us out. They don't need to be manipulated.

Unfortunately, I think this country is doomed because it will take us being rreduced to third world status and living in Shanty towns before the average American will finally figure out that something is wrong. It will be far too late by then. What is worse is everyone will blame all the wrong people. The democrats will blame the republicans and visa versa. Just what the bankers want. Division. In addition to that with the considerable dumbing down through the education system they'll want the government (The Bankers) to fix everything or them.

Trvlr45
17th April 2008, 22:05
Good! Me too, and a year ago, practically nobody knew, but the last time I went down to the local watering hole, there were about six people sitting around sipping beer and talking about it. Truckers! God bless them! They're getting the word around...

Hi Kelly,

Truckers have nothing to do but listen to the news while we are sitting behind the wheel. We listen to talk shows most people don't even know exist and hosts no one has ever heard of.

We see first hand how many illegal aliens are really in this country because we go where no one else needs to go. When we get stuck somewhere a lot of us go online and look things up that we heard about on the radio and then end up following links from one website to another.

We see the country and what is happening to it from a completely different perspective than the average person who never leaves the city they live in except to go on vacation and we talk to people from all over the world and all over the country. It is kind of like being in the military which a lot of us were. The cross section of people we meet is unbelievable.

The Truckin' Bozo read a geocities article on who runs the Federal Reserve on the air about a year ago. Rollye James (the empress of the interstate) is on everynight on XM and she loathes the Fed and doesn't mind pointing out what they are doing or having guests on that have pertinent information the government doesn't want you to know such as Tom Cryer who just beat the Gestapo on income tax evasion charges because as many people know. We don't owe income tax. It is as big a lie as the Fed itself. He hasn't filed or paid income tax since 1993.

There is a lot of info out there if you have the time to sit around and listen. Since we don't have any choice but to sit around and listen that is what we do.

Trvlr45
17th April 2008, 22:17
Teleconferencing might be fine for a while, but that will become too dangerous after a time. Internet freedom to hold discussions like this are going to become a thing of the past, and those who do so are going to become targets and prospects for your concentration ... ah... "re-education" camps.



You're right FedFixNix. I tried telling 3 of the guys I work with about the Rex 84 project and the fact that Bush just passed legislation to continue it on top of the 365 million he gave to Halliburton a few years ago and I was told I spend too much time alone.

You can't even get the people in this country to accept the obvious. The things they can look up in about 5 minutes let alone the corrupt banking system. Cognitive dissidence is what will bring us down. Between that and "Bubble Vision" we have BIG problems.

FedFixNix
17th April 2008, 22:17
Bingo, Kelly. The only way to put a stop to the people you are referring to is if the vast majority of the population in this country KNOW who is screwing us but they don't. What is worse is they don't care as long as it isn't affecting them. In my experience when you try to point this out to people they accuse you of being nuts. They would rather watch football, Oprah and American Idol than pay any attention to what is really going on around them.

I was always a big fan of Ronald Reagan because I thought he really did try to do what is best for the country. I never stopped to think where all the money came from to out-spend the Soviets which eventually bankrupted them and ended thier expansion. Now I know. We're paying for all that worthless paper now.

When you have a group of people with enough power and money to manipulate our Congress, Senate and President it's quite scary. Especially when they can assasinate them or get them impeached and get away with it. The big problem we have these days is that we have people who don't need to be manipulated. Just look at the damage the Bush/Clinton Crime Syndicate has done. I think Reagan was manipulated and lied to by his advisors and he had an evil Vice President he had to hold his nose to take. What we have now really enjoy selling us out. They don't need to be manipulated.

Unfortunately, I think this country is doomed because it will take us being rreduced to third world status and living in Shanty towns before the average American will finally figure out that something is wrong. It will be far too late by then. What is worse is everyone will blame all the wrong people. The democrats will blame the republicans and visa versa. Just what the bankers want. Division. In addition to that with the considerable dumbing down through the education system they'll want the government (The Bankers) to fix everything or them.

You have realized a lot more than most. But what I am trying to get people here to understand it that leaving the international central banking cabal in control and returning to a gold and silver standard would only result in the final act of their power coup that began over 95 years ago.

The central bankers have the vast majority of the world's stores of above ground gold and silver, plus a huge portion of what is still underground. If you return to a gold and silver standard under those conditions it may enrich a few small holder of PMs like me and some others here, but what we will gain will be nothing compared to what the money-monopolists will gain.

Any gold and silver standard they even say they will agree to will just be another in a long line of lies and deceits. Nobody will actually be able to redeem any paper currency for PMs. Or if they allow it it will only be for a short while, for show.

Fedfixnix


MoneyMasters: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936


Money as Debt: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-9050474362583451279


Web of Debt: http://www.amazon.com/review/product/0979560810/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


The Lost Science of Money - Mythology & Power:

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1930748035/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


Video: America: Freedom to Fascism :

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/1930748035/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1


Carrol Quigley - Tragedy and Hope:

http://www.amazon.com/review/product/094500110X/ref=dp_top_cm_cr_acr_txt?%5Fencoding=UTF8&showViewpoints=1

Trvlr45
17th April 2008, 22:20
And are the people involved with these monetary reforms the bankers behind the Fed or the Euro? Did the leaders of this monetary reform group spend 18 months arguing it out nose to nose with one of the king pins setting up the European Union? Well, did they? In my estimation, whether you or your reform group likes it or not, I am afraid the real power behind the Fed and the European Union will simply ignore your intent and reforms.

The banker I met would just laugh at your group, and then he'd squash you like you were little bugs. He had no guilt. He had not an ounce of forgiveness in him. He simply did not care about what you or I or anybody else thought or wanted. I would, in fact, judge him as being someone who is criminally insane, but he was one of the wealthiest men in the world and he was sick with a desire for more and more power. Maybe it is something in their blood and DNA that drives men like that, I don't really know, but like it or not that group set up the European Union and he is one of the primary money men behind the Euro today.

How does your reform group plan to deal with men like that? You can educate all of us all you want to, and nobody is going to say you are wrong or that your goals are misplaced. But it doesn’t matter how educated we are on currency reform. It doesn't matter if we know how horrid institutions like the Fed are.

Those men don't care what you think. Your group, no matter how well intentioned it is, has to get through groups of men like the man I met. He's been paying people off in the CIA for years. He hires the lobbyists that manipulate Washington DC. If he wants a piece of legislation passed, he doesn't need some grassroots effort group petitioning Washington to get a bill passed. He just attaches a rider to a bill he knows congress wants to pass, and since most congressmen never read the bills anyway, they don't even know they voted something into law that was ultimately part of the Euro game plan.



I sincerely apologize if I ruffled your tail feathers, but never-the-less, I do believe it is naïve to think that your efforts for monetary reform are going to make any difference at all to these men. They are not going to listen to your reform because they have all the money, and in the real world, unfortunately, those that have the money make the rules.

I'd love to see that changed and I sincerely applaud your efforts to educate people about monetary reform.

But the bottom line is there are very wealthy crooks running the show, and no amount of reform is going to be effective at stopping them. Unless your monetary theory reform group has a plan and knows how to put the entire bunch of these guys in jail so we can throw away the keys, I don't see any possibility for success.

FedFixNix, you and your group are comprised of bright, kind and honorable men who who genuinely have the people's welfare at heart. I know that. But you are up against something that is evil beyond your wildest dreams. I did not mean to say anything to offend you, but you must understand the kind of men we are up against.

One day, as that banker and I sat in my living room arguing about theory, philosophy and the world, I turned to him and said, "You and I are not working the same side of the street. I don't think we are even working for the same god system. I think you are working for the anti-Christ."

And do you know what he did? He crossed his arms over his chest, looked me in the eye, smiled and then simply said with great glee and satisfaction, "I know."

At that moment, to be honest, I think my blood turned to cold-running cottage cheese. At that moment I finally understood what we are up against.

And it is ugly, it is evil and it's bigger than you and me or any monetary reform group.

True story.

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. This process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was ever invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money and with the flick of a pen they will create enough money to buy it back again. Take this power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear. And they ought to disappear for this would be a better and happier world to live in. But if you want to continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the price for your own slavery, then let bankers continue to control credit and create money." – Sir Josiah Stamp, Director of the Bank of England, 1928-1941 (reported to be the second richest man in England at the time.)

Bingo, Kelly. The only way to put a stop to the people you are referring to is if the vast majority of the population in this country KNOW who is screwing us but they don't. What is worse is they don't care as long as it isn't affecting them. In my experience when you try to point this out to people they accuse you of being nuts. They would rather watch football, Oprah and American Idol than pay any attention to what is really going on around them.

I was always a big fan of Ronald Reagan because I thought he really did try to do what is best for the country. I never stopped to think where all the money came from to out-spend the Soviets which eventually bankrupted them and ended thier expansion. Now I know. We're paying for all that worthless paper now.

When you have a group of people with enough power and money to manipulate our Congress, Senate and President it's quite scary. Especially when they can assasinate them or get them impeached and get away with it. The big problem we have these days is that we have people who don't need to be manipulated. Just look at the damage the Bush/Clinton Crime Syndicate has done. I think Reagan was manipulated and lied to by his advisors and he had an evil Vice President he had to hold his nose to take. What we have now really enjoy selling us out. They don't need to be manipulated.

Unfortunately, I think this country is doomed because it will take us being rreduced to third world status and living in Shanty towns before the average American will finally figure out that something is wrong. It will be far too late by then. What is worse is everyone will blame all the wrong people. The democrats will blame the republicans and visa versa. Just what the bankers want. Division. In addition to that with the considerable dumbing down through the education system they'll want the government (The Bankers) to fix everything or them.

Malus
17th April 2008, 23:04
Its unfortunate that it seems to be the same in Canada as well. Until the gestapo starts knocking down(not on) the doors(to late!!), I don't think the Canadian people will start caring. We're just to apathetic(It makes me want to puke!). Just tonight, for example, on the indoctrination channel news was the announcement that we have to put ourselves at the same level as the American's and Russian's when it comes to protecting our great north. Like should we be worried about American's or Russian's? No, I think not. Anyways, Harper(thats our Prime Minister), is sending up actual regular army troops for special training and patrol maneuvers. Full combat exercises in the worst possible conditions. Now, as a footnote, they did make sure to say this wasn't militarization, but, showing the other powers in the region that we can fend for our own. Yeah, right. The Americans have more warplanes in Alaska alone than Canada has in it's whole air force. Nice try though. We all know the North is loaded with oil, PM's and other goodies. The combative attitudes I continually endure, when I try to open peoples eyes to the truths that surround them, amazes me to no end. The thorough planning to stupidize the western masses was brilliant. By the time most clue in, it'll be to late. Sorry, this sounds depressing. High positive ion count.

prahudka
18th April 2008, 08:54
I've already gone over this ground in other places, either here on on the Kitco forums. That is unlikely to happen. First, I don't know how you "partially" back a currency with gold. It's like being "partially" pregnant. Either it is or it isn't. Second, the first nation or union to back its currency with gold will have its currency hoarded, and used as reserves, or cashed in for gold. Eventually that nation's gold will be gone, drained away to other nations.

It simply can't work without ALL nations going to a gold standard. And that my dear Kelly, is the game plan. ONE WORLD CURRENCY... backed by gold... or so they will claim. Actually it will not be redeemable for gold, so the claim of gold backing is illusory, like so many other "claims". It's just more doublespeak.

Getting my attention.

Where does this info come from?

The way you stated it, it sounds like someone wants to establish a sound financial system by backing it with gold. Another way to say it is, someone wants to have all the gold in the world and profit massively by lending out to us with reserve notes. Which do you prefer?

prahudka
18th April 2008, 08:59
In my experience when you try to point this out to people they accuse you of being nuts. They would rather watch football, Oprah and American Idol than pay any attention to what is really going on around them.

No.

Actually, I would rather watch Oprah play football, as long as she gets 40 touches going off tackle with Justin Tuck, Osi U. and Michael Strahan in the game.

prahudka
18th April 2008, 09:20
The banker I met would just laugh at your group, and then he'd squash you like you were little bugs. He had no guilt. He had not an ounce of forgiveness in him. He simply did not care about what you or I or anybody else thought or wanted. I would, in fact, judge him as being someone who is criminally insane, but he was one of the wealthiest men in the world and he was sick with a desire for more and more power. Maybe it is something in their blood and DNA that drives men like that, I don't really know, but like it or not that group set up the European Union and he is one of the primary money men behind the Euro today.

How does your reform group plan to deal with men like that? You can educate all of us all you want to, and nobody is going to say you are wrong or that your goals are misplaced. But it doesn’t matter how educated we are on currency reform. It doesn't matter if we know how horrid institutions like the Fed are.


This is completely out of left field, I am sure. But, when you said "DNA", something went "ding."

Everyone should see "The Davinci Code." Opie from Mayberry (director) apparently is less flannel and fishin' pole than whips/chains and "Eyes Wide Shut." (the latter by Kubrick). Evidence: In Davinci, there is a VERY brief scene of ritual sex on an altar witnessed by masked attendants. Now put aside this as a cinemagraph equivalent in a PG-13 movie of a human turd on the food cart in first class (remember the man named Finneran busted on the 747 and his eternal metaphor for most things Hollywood?).

What exactly was being communicated by Opie at this point? 1. European nobilty in fact think they really have the lineage of God, or the DNA of Jesus; 2. they are satanic, which is the only religion of public humping (remember the Black Sabbath album cover?).

Now, the stupid movie had that cinetomagraphic glow of sainthood around its psychopaths, like the movie Kinsey (a man so "liberated" and "free", his pleasure was catheters, toothbrushes in his you-know-what and being kicked in the nads). But, actually it spoke a historic truth about people like the Hapsburgs and much of old European money. They really think they have a hereditary right to this world and they are in fact more bent than youc an imagine. They quite literally assume that they have an equal or superior right to God's right to owning the nations.

If you study the history behind this idea of a bloodline of the mythical offspring between Jesus and Magdalene, you will find it is a very long history and a very important idea in notions of things like hereditary rights to Jerusalem and the lands of Israel, and ultimately, ownership of the world.

Kelly
18th April 2008, 13:17
If you study the history behind this idea of a bloodline of the mythical offspring between Jesus and Magdalene, you will find it is a very long history and a very important idea in notions of things like hereditary rights to Jerusalem and the lands of Israel, and ultimately, ownership of the world.

Prahudka, this banker said absolutely nothing about the so called "Jesus and Magdalene bloodline"; only that the Priory members had to be able to trace their DNA back to Solomon and King David.

I don't buy that whole bit about Magdalene going to France. Though I do indeed suspect she may have well been pregnant with Jesus' child at the time of the crucifixion, Jesus would have logically asked Joseph of Arimathea, who was Jesus' uncle on his mother's side, to be her protector. In those days, Arimathea would have married her, as it was the custom that an older family member marry the widow of a deceased male in the family and take care of her. Arimathea did not settle in France after the crucifixion, he led a group of early Christians and they settled in Glastonbury. It's recorded in English history that Arimathea and his group were granted the "12 hides of Glaston" (1,440 acres) by the local King Aviragus, whose territory had not yet fallen to Roman rule. That land grant was still being honored as late as 1084 AD where it was recorded in England's Domesday Survey.

I am personally convinced that directly after the Crucifixion the Sadducees and Pharisees put their own man in place and billed him as "the resurrected Christ," and that man would have logically been someone from the royal family of Judah; i.e. the wealthy class that ruled in Judea. "Mary" was an incredibly common name and that same individual could have married any number of women named "Mary" from the town of Magdala, but I doubt seriously if she was the real biblical Mary Magdalene. You must remember that early Christians were killed by the thousands throughout Judea directly after the crucifixion and the ruling priesthoods were obviously pretty intent upon getting rid of people who could recognize Jesus on sight. The one thing the New Testament makes very clear is that whoever was claiming to be the resurrected Jesus was NOT a man that anybody who knew him actually recognized as Jesus. They had to be talked into believing it was him.

It's my belief that the Sadducees and Pharisees acted quickly to put their own man in place, and it was in all likelihood that man and his wife that ultimately ended up in the South of France and gave birth to all the rumors that abound there. Jesus warned people time and time again that after his death there would be others who claimed to be him, and I suspect that is precisely what happened.

There are several very curious verses in the Book of Revelations that do indeed suggest Magdalene was actually pregnant with Jesus' child and that she gave birth to a son, rather than a daughter. (Rev. 12: 1-6) If so, her identity and the identity of that child would have been protected at all cost. Her son would have never been declared a king; much less a member of royalty, and I think they would have taken care that he was thought of only as a commoner and family man.

However, that being said, that child may indeed have passed on the DNA peculiar to Jesus. I doubt seriously if those who inherited that bloodline ever knew, for that DNA would not have been passed on so that one could profit from it financially or by fame; that DNA would have been passed on to give the human race some protection against what I do indeed suspect is a genetically transmitted disease that ultimately leads to the kind of psychopathy I observed in that European banker who was deffinately a full-fledged member of the Priory de Sion.

The man that I met, by all standards, would have truly qualified as criminally insane. When one begins to study the bloodlines of the banking families and monarchy, (including the famous Merovingian bloodlines) we see this same sick desire to control the entire world, regardless of how much enslavement, death and destruction it leads to among the tribes of the common people.

I indeed do wonder if there isn't a genetic component to it; a mental illness that is passed down from one generation to the next that leads to the same kind of psychopathy we can all readily identify with the banking families. If you look at their bloodlines, the banking families and royal bloodlines intermarry with each other. It's in fact quite common to marry a cousin. And this is nothing new. Throughout all of ancient history, from the Sumerians to the Egyptians or for that matter throughout all the countries of the Near and Middle East, it was common to for men of royalty to marry one's half sister; in fact it was expected. Men of royalty married a woman sired by the same father but a different mother. I have mountains of books dealing with the ancient archaeological records, and the one thing all the royal families subscribed to was the idea of keeping a specific bloodline "pure" by marrying their half sister.

This is a practice that must ultimately lead to insanity, and I think that is precisely what we are actually up against today; men from specific aristocratic bloodlines who can be characterized by their overpowering lust for power and control and care not what they have to do to get it. That is, by all psychiatric definitions, "psychopathy," and my guess is this is not so much the result of upbringing but is due, in fact, to some bizaar piece of DNA that passes the disease of psychopathy on through certain wealthy bloodlines related to the monarchies.

Kelly
18th April 2008, 13:18
I am personally convinced that if you took a DNA test of all the major banking families and bloodlines related to royalty, this gene would show up over and over again. I've come to think of it as SGD syndrome; "Satan's genetic disease."

Most folks don't understand were the word "Satan" came from but from my studies of the archaeological records, I suspect the word is the Jewish translation of the Egyptian term; "Sa Aten." "Sa" was an Egyptian word meaning "son of" similar to the way that "ben" is used in most Middle Eastern languages including Hebrew. The royal bloodlines of Egypt, the pharaohs, all considered themselves Horace kings, and all were considered the "Sa Aten" or "the sons of Aten." The ancient religion of the Aten cult was all about creating a one world order under the command of Aten, who was presumed to be the head "god" of the Anunnaki system which was well known throughout the entire near and Middle East, as well as Egypt. Essentially the pharaohs of Egypt considered themselves the direct descendants of Ra, Egypt's sun god, who was called "Marduk" by the Babylonians. Ra-Marduk was considered to be an "apect" or the reincarnation of Aten. The term, "Anunnaki" refers to the bloodline descendant from the ancient family of Anu. The very popular modern-day author, Zecharia Sitchin, has convinced hundreds of thousands of his readers that the Anunnaki were some sort of Extraterrestrial race, but that doesn't actually seem to be the case. I was quite surprised to find out when I began studying the ancient history of India, that the family of Anu can be traced directly back to India. That family ultimately colonized ancient Sumer, (Iraq) and from there, they colonized Egypt as well. The Egyptian Ra was probably one and the same with the Indian deity, Rama. It is indeed peculiar that Rama's reign in India ended just as the Indian colony of Sumer rose to fame.

The Pharisees that Jesus was constantly at odds with seemed to be a religious sect that primarily must have known their beginnings as part of the priesthood of Heliopolis; this city was the known biblically as "the city of On." the priesthood that was called the Pharisees had to have known their roots as the priesthood of the Pharaohs. The similarity in words can be no mere coincidence. The word Apollo or Apollos was in fact the Greek word for a "Horus King." And Apollos was mentioned nine times by Paul in the Books of the Acts and Corinthians. Paul was indeed a part of the Pharisees prior to his claimed conversion to Christianity. He was, in fact, the only New Testament author that demanded that the Christian priesthood take the "oath of Melchizedik." (The Book of Hebrews, chapter 5-7) In many of the older Hebrew books that didn't make it into the Bible, we find that the high priest, "Melchizedik" was also called "Adonizedek." It was Sigmund Freud who first pointed out that when one translated the Hebrew word "Adoni" into Egyptian, it became "Aten." So Melchizedek, i.e. Adonizedek, is a direct reference to the ancient sun god religion of Heliopolis in Egypt. It would appear the Bible compilers left this curious little piece of history out. It's all very odd, wouldn't you say?

There are now hundreds of reasonably well-qualified researchers that are providing some serious historical evidence that the royal line of Israel was in fact, directly related to the royal lines of Pharaohs through the bloodlines descended from the Old Testament Joseph, who was apparently married to an Egyptian princess. As the nation of Israel moved into Europe, it was this particular bloodline that ultimately became the lines of the European monarchies and the banking families that originated as the gold smiths.

If this proves to ultimately be the truth, then the whole Merovingian bloodline of the Priory de Sion is to not only be considered the descendants of King David and Solomon, that particular bloodline is also a part of the Horace king bloodline of the Pharaohs, and they can realistically be called the descendants of the Egyptian sun god, Ra. This is perhaps quite pertinent, since the Hebrew numeral, 666, literally means "the sun god." Its meaning is clearly stated in the Kabala.

So way back in 1985, when I accused that banker of working for the antichrist system and he said, "I know;" the chances are that man absolutely knew that he was indeed descendant from Egypt's ancient line of Horace kings. I know for a fact that he'd had his face completely made over by plastic surgery at least twice prior to the time when I met him. You can't imagine my shock and horror when one of the many books I have on ancient history arrived in the mail. There in the center section of photographs was a picture of the side view of a very famous statue of Khafre, one of the well-known Egyptian Pharaohs. If you removed the Egyptian head dress and that oddly shaped Egyptian beard on the statue, I know you aren't probably going to believe this, but the banker I knew had had his face done so that his profile was the profile of Khafre!

I have looked at that picture a thousand times now in disbelief. That SOB banker actually had his face done over in the image of Khafre! I doubt seriously if this can be considered a "coincidence." He was an egomaniac to the extreme, and doing something like that would be quite in keeping with his personality.

Talk about spooky! And I am telling you, this guy was a flat out psychopath. By anyone's standards, he was criminally insane. Straight out of the Merovingian bloodlines of the European monarchies, and a tried and true member of the Priory de Sion.

I doubt seriously if his peculiar bloodline had anything at all to do with the historical Jesus. It was the intent of the Pharisees to destroy Christianity, and I rather suspect it was indeed the descendants of the Pharisees that concocted that cock and bull story about the Merovingians being the descendants of Christ. They could only have been the descendants of the man who pretended to be the resurrected Jesus, and Jesus warned his followers to "believe it not!" (Mat 24:23-24)

I would be very, very cautious about believing anything about the Priory's claim to be the descendants of Jesus. Furthermore, based on what I found out back in 85-86, if there is ANY secret organization on earth pulling the strings behind the New World Order, I would suspect that the Priory de Sion is that organization.

FedFixNix
18th April 2008, 13:50
What exactly was being communicated by Opie at this point? 1. European nobilty in fact think they really have the lineage of God, or the DNA of Jesus; 2. they are satanic, which is the only religion of public humping (remember the Black Sabbath album cover?).

Now, the stupid movie had that cinetomagraphic glow of sainthood around its psychopaths, like the movie Kinsey (a man so "liberated" and "free", his pleasure was catheters, toothbrushes in his you-know-what and being kicked in the nads). But, actually it spoke a historic truth about people like the Hapsburgs and much of old European money. They really think they have a hereditary right to this world and they are in fact more bent than youc an imagine. They quite literally assume that they have an equal or superior right to God's right to owning the nations.

If you study the history behind this idea of a bloodline of the mythical offspring between Jesus and Magdalene, you will find it is a very long history and a very important idea in notions of things like hereditary rights to Jerusalem and the lands of Israel, and ultimately, ownership of the world.

Yes, all true, and more. This bloodline actually does run back far into prehistory. The bloodline is mentioned in certain mysterious passages in Genesis, about the "sons of God entering into the daughters of men" and producing the "mighty men" (kings) of old. More than that I will not go into here.

But the bloodlines gave rise to the ancient ideas that Priest-Kings were of divine origin, and ruled over men by "divine right". This was true of most major civilizations, from the Sumerian, Babylonian, Egyptian, Through the Roman, and European (Divine Right of European Monarchs). Even the more democratic Greeks and Romans had their Olympic gods, and limited their republican rights to the upper echelon 10% or so who were deemed "citizens". Representative government is a very recent development on the world stage, and Ben Franklin was correct to wonder "if we could keep it".

I want to make it clear that Jesus had no offspring, although the bloodline and dna of his family still exists today. He had 6 brothers and sisters who were all offspring of Joseph and Mary.


Money is a new form of slavery, and distinguishable from the old simply by the fact that it is impersonal -- that there is no human relation between master and slave." - Leo Tolstoy



"All of the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue, so much as from downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation." -- John Adams, Founding Father


"History records that the money changers have used every form of abuse, intrigue, deceit, and violent means possible to maintain their control over governments by controlling money and its issuance." - President James Madison


"You are a den of vipers and thieves and I intend to rout you out, and by the eternal God, I will rout you out. If Congress has the right to issue paper money, it was given them to be used by themselves, and not to be delegated to individuals or corporations.." -- Andrew Jackson's address to Congress 1829


"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies." - Thomas Jefferson.

FedFixNix
18th April 2008, 14:09
Hmmm. Kelly, I hadn't seen your post when I posted my last. Very interesting analysis, Kelly. Mostly right on target in all important respects. You and I could have some interesting conversations, I think.

FedFixNix



"If this mischievous financial policy, which has its origin in North America, shall become endurated down to a fixture, then that Government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off debts and be without debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous without precedent in the history of the world. The brains, and wealth of all countries will go to North America. That country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." - Hazard Circular - London Times 1865

Trvlr45
18th April 2008, 15:30
The central bankers have the vast majority of the world's stores of above ground gold and silver, plus a huge portion of what is still underground. If you return to a gold and silver standard under those conditions it may enrich a few small holder of PMs like me and some others here, but what we will gain will be nothing compared to what the money-monopolists will gain.

Any gold and silver standard they even say they will agree to will just be another in a long line of lies and deceits. Nobody will actually be able to redeem any paper currency for PMs. Or if they allow it it will only be for a short while, for show.

You're absolutely right FedFixNix. That is why we need the vast majority of people in this country to realize who it is that is actually screwing them. After that it's easier to have a congressional investigation into the inner workings of the Fed. not that this congress or any other would want to but if forced they would have to just like they have been forced, temporarily, to give up on the amnesty for illegals plan. With the guilty parties in jail or run out of the country and our Constitution re-instated a silver and gold standard would work. Yes, I know, I'm dreaming but that is the only way. Take back our soveriegnty and force our government to obey the law.

Every huge mining company mining and drilling for OUR natural resources in this country is owned by England, Canada and Australia. Our ports are all controlled by foriegn countries and our banking system and monetary system is controlled by foriegn countries with a couple of families here running the United States branch of the cabal.

This is all un-constitutional as Ron Paul has been trying to tell everyone. This country doesn't even own a shipping company anymore as far as I know. The people in this country don't realize what this means. They just won't care until a Chinese tank followed by a bunch of "Peace Keepers" in blue helmets come barreling down main street.

This is not to say I don't continue to tell people what is going on. I ordered 100 copies of Freedom to Fascism and have given out all but five when I run into someone who has some semblance of a clue.. Out of all the people I have discussed this problem with only about 10% are somewhat interested. All anyone can do is keep trying. Not to worry though, this country is headed for very, very bad times so maybe they'll wake up then.

I applaud your efforts and understand exactly where you are coming from. I went to the American Monetary institute's website but am having a hard time joining. I think it may be the way my firewall is set up. I'll solve the problem soon. I already get e-mail alerts from the NTU, GOA, Numbers USA and GATA and I donate whenever I can afford it.

Kelly
18th April 2008, 15:43
I want to make it clear that Jesus had no offspring, although the bloodline and dna of his family still exists today. He had 6 brothers and sisters who were all offspring of Joseph and Mary.

I used to think that myself, Nix, but today I truly wonder. Think of the things that happened during the last supper. He said "Verily, verily I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood; ye have no life in you." (Jn 6:53) While this statement became ritualized as the Eucharist, I have to truly wonder if that was Jesus' meaning, or if we have just been taught to believe that's what he meant. That statement would be extraordinarily significant if Jesus in fact knew he was the father of Magdalene's child. And if that was the case, then his words may have an incredibly significant meaning in terms of DNA. If Magdalene had indeed been pregnant with his child, he would have surely known by then.

There are things about Jesus' birth and the nativity that are indeed very strange. Though the linage of Jesus quoted in the books of Mathew and Luke seem to imply that Jesus was the son of Joseph, Mary's husband, both apostles make it incredibly clear in the main body of their work that they didn't believe that Joseph had anything to do at all with Jesus' birth. They both clearly state that Mary had "known no man" when she became pregnant with Jesus, and Joseph clearly believed that he was not the father of her child. So the fact that there is any linage at all in the books of Mathew and Luke suggesting Joseph was Jesus' father, is incredibly odd indeed. We may ultimately have to suspect that those lineages were inserted later by the priesthoods and scribes. The Pharisees and Sadducees were not necessarily known for their honesty and Jesus point blank accused them of lying and messing around with the scriptures.

I've been wondering about this and studying it for decades. If I am correct that Jesus carried in his own DNA some sort of gene structure that could give people some immunity to the "bankers gene" that obviously leads to psychopathy, then it would have been incredibly important for Jesus to have fathered a child so he could pass that "protection from evil" on to others.

I do believe that Magdalene was indeed pregnant, but I think it sheer lunacy that anyone could believe that her child gave birth to a "royal bloodline." If there was anything important about Jesus fathering a child, it would have only been in the fact that he carried in his genetic makeup something that would give the human race some resistance to the mental disease we see so obvious in the bloodlines of the European monarchies and the bankers.

I do not believe that if Jesus actually fathered a child that in any way makes him less than he was.

He was special, FedFixNix. The whole biblical tale of how Jesus was tempted by Satan for 40 days in the wilderness is a story that tells us he was capable of resisting the temptations of power and greed, and it's pretty danged obvious to me that the lines of the banking families have virtually no resistance at all to that disease; it's a disease that ultimately creates psychopaths. If indeed that disease is genetic, as I suggest, then Jesus was given the genetic cure. There was something in his blood and DNA that gave him resistance to a disease that was apparently running rampart throughout the entire Middle East.

I believe emphatically that Jesus fathered a son and that Magdalene named that child David, just as Jesus had asked her to do. If I am correct, then Jesus was indeed "the root and the seed of David" but it was not a reference to a royal line of Kings, but to a little child that hopefully passed resistance to SGD (psychopaths bent on greed and control at all costs) on to a good many people in the human race.

If I am correct then it makes his words, "Verily, verily I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood; ye have no life in you" entirely more significant, for those words are pregnant with meaning if Jesus knew he was passing his genetics on to mankind.

I hope I am right, FedFixNix, because I met that banker, and believe me, I am utterly convinced that not only was he a psychopath, I am equally convinced he had inherited that tendency through his DNA and had virtually no resistance at all to it. I sure couldn't see it anyway.

I think a God of Love would have created Jesus with a protection and cure in his genetic makeup, and I think Jesus would have been very aware of how important that little piece of DNA was. He would have passed that DNA on, not because he intended to create a royal bloodline, but because he wanted to give the human race some protection against a genetic disease that ultimately leads to the kind of psychopathy so incredibly evident in the banking families and the monarchies.

If I am correct, then John the Divine knew Magdalene was pregnant, and he also knew where she was being hidden, and that's what Rev. 12: 1-6, is really all about. If she indeed did have his son, then that child never sat on a royal throne, but we might all hope and pray that Magdalene was the happy grandmother and great-grandmother to many before she passed over to the other side.

If I am right about this, then Jesus left the human race his most precious gift of all; the gift of DNA that was capable of withstanding the genetic disease of psychopaths. Would the gift of his DNA necessarily mean that people who inherited it all became good Christians? No. But on the other hand, it might mean that even if those people made no effort to become Christians by their belief or faith, it might mean that at least they were not subject to the same DNA that turns men into despots and tyrants.

Throughout the Bible's history, people were told that "The spirit is strong but the flesh is weak." So maybe Jesus was the cure to that problem in more ways than one.

Even if this is not your belief, FedFixNix, it's a belief I hang on to and cherish. I'd like to think that there is a little bit of Jesus in all good people who strive to live their lives in an honest and decent way. This would in no way do anything at all to the subject of faith and spirituality. It would only mean that people who had inherited that DNA got the gift of protection against a genetic disease that can quite literally turn men into insane monsters.

And if that banker I met was any indication, I don't think the Priory people were "saved" from that disease. I think it is a disease that is still running rampart through the bloodlines of the monarchies and banking families.

Today men with those royal bloodlines sick with that disease do not have monarchies to lead as they once did. They are driven to control through globalist corporations and the banking system instead. They are very, very sick and one could hope that somehow, some way, if Jesus did indeed father a child, someone who carries the cure for their disease will mate into that "royal" bloodline, and hopefully doing so will save this poor tattered world from still another sick, evil tyrant from being born.

I know you think I am wrong here, FedFixNix, and that's okay. But having a child would not have made Jesus any less of person. In fact, I think that my belief that he was capable of falling in love and siring a child makes him just that much more remarkable. A man who could not find it in his heart to love a woman seems far more frightening and certainly less human and humane to me.

Trvlr45
18th April 2008, 15:50
Its unfortunate that it seems to be the same in Canada as well. Until the gestapo starts knocking down(not on) the doors(to late!!), I don't think the Canadian people will start caring. We're just to apathetic(It makes me want to puke!). Just tonight, for example, on the indoctrination channel news was the announcement that we have to put ourselves at the same level as the American's and Russian's when it comes to protecting our great north. Like should we be worried about American's or Russian's? No, I think not. Anyways, Harper(thats our Prime Minister), is sending up actual regular army troops for special training and patrol maneuvers. Full combat exercises in the worst possible conditions. Now, as a footnote, they did make sure to say this wasn't militarization, but, showing the other powers in the region that we can fend for our own. Yeah, right. The Americans have more warplanes in Alaska alone than Canada has in it's whole air force. Nice try though. We all know the North is loaded with oil, PM's and other goodies. The combative attitudes I continually endure, when I try to open peoples eyes to the truths that surround them, amazes me to no end. The thorough planning to stupidize the western masses was brilliant. By the time most clue in, it'll be to late. Sorry, this sounds depressing. High positive ion count.

Hang in there, Malus. The one thing the rulers don't want is to be obvious. They still have to find some way to take away the guns from the 80 million gun owners down here and many of them are heavily armed. If they start killing too many people it will wake even the dumbest of dumb up so they can't do it that way and I can assure you that if they ever tried going door to door in many of the states down here people would open fire on them. They don't want that. Neither do any of us. That's for sure.

I'm thinking they will somehow use the Real ID Act to incrementally take them away little by little. I don't know but they have to do that before they can really steal our country from us completely. We'll have to wait and see what they try to pull next. There are anumber of things they can try including staging another terrorist attack and invoking martial law but I doubt they will try that either eventhough they have put all the executive orders in place to make it "legal".

Kelly
18th April 2008, 17:31
I'm thinking they will somehow use the Real ID Act to incrementally take them away little by little. I don't know but they have to do that before they can really steal our country from us completely. We'll have to wait and see what they try to pull next. There are anumber of things they can try including staging another terrorist attack and invoking martial law but I doubt they will try that either eventhough they have put all the executive orders in place to make it "legal".

All identification associated with the real ID act will have an RFID swipe on the back which means they'll be able to track our every move, and our every purchase. If that isn't bad enough, I honestly think the banking institutions will offer to "implant" people with an RFID chip, telling people that this is the only way they can be protected against identity theft. Or at least I suspect that is how they will initially try to sell the idea to people.

I worked in the chip and board manufacturing field for many years. If an RFID chip can track a person and send that data through radio frequency to a main data bank, that same chip is just as likely capable of receiving data too, particularly from satellites. We are bio-electric creatures. Our entire system is responsive to electrically transmitted data from our nerve endings to our brains; that's the way our minds and bodies work.

RFID stands for "radio frequency ID;" the point being that anything capable of transmitting radio frequency signals can just as easily receive them as well. It's one thing for an adult to say that they will not allow an RFID chip to be implanted into their bodies, even if it means we will not be able to legally buy or sell.

What worries me the most though is what are people with children going to do? It's one thing for an adult to refuse to be implanted, but very few parents could make that decision, because it just might mean starvation for their children.

It amounts to emotional blackmail of the worst kind for people.

During the late 70s and throughout most of the 80's I was a very active member of the UFO research community, where the subject of chipping people first came to light. Those chips rumored to have been implanted in people who believe they've been through an UFO abduction experience are indeed very real; they've been showing up on x-rays and CAT scans for decades now.

I never quite bought the whole UFO abduction scene because in my opinion, anybody who had been micro-chipped would have been subject to receiving radio wave signals and I was among the handful of researchers who wondered if any UFO abduction had really taken place, or were those people the "test case" subjects for RFID implants? Were those people receiving a signal that led them all to suspect "UFOs did it" when in fact, they may have well been "chosen" for some insidiously evil program that was testing how RFID chips would work on the population?

If so, this of course did not make their experience any less shattering for the people who went through it, but I met enough abductees and interviewed enough of them to know these people were all seemingly receiving precisely the same kind of program. If I am correct here, the human mind would not be able to differentiate between a real event and one that was being programmed into their heads by a chip devise. There were clear signs that whatever type of chip was being used, that chip was very capable of manipulating the touch-feel centers of the brain which would have convinced all abductees that they'd been through a very real event.

I am not going to say that UFOs don't exist, (I didn't actually reach any conclusion on that one) but there is a great deal to suspect that there are not nearly as many UFOs as many might believe, and that people have been unwittingly subjected against their will to a black budget program.

I long ago began suspecting that those people were the victims of a mind control program, and I fear the RFID chips now in the news are the ultimate outcome of that program.

This is probably one of the most well documented articles on the net about the subject of remote mind control technologies...

http://www.deepblacklies.co.uk/remote_behavioral_techology.htm

Kelly
18th April 2008, 18:47
Every huge mining company mining and drilling for OUR natural resources in this country is owned by England, Canada and Australia. Our ports are all controlled by foriegn countries and our banking system and monetary system is controlled by foriegn countries with a couple of families here running the United States branch of the cabal.

You've got it right, trvlr45. America isn't owned by American's any more. A huge number of the major corporations that people still assume are owned by Americans had their controlling interests bought out by foreign corporations and interests years ago. They keep the American name for those companies because people identify with that and it lulls them into the belief that it's still an American corporation.

DaveK
18th April 2008, 20:58
If an RFID chip can track a person and send that data through radio frequency to a main data bank, that same chip is just as likely capable of receiving data too, particularly from satellites.


The current generation of commercial RFID technology is pretty unreliable. For example, if you have a pallet of products all individually tagged and wrapped together, when you try to scan it you generally only get the tags on the outside. This makes some of the elements of supply chain management (the industry I work in) difficult.

With the right equipment though you can read RFID tags from quite a distance. In some experiments reliable reads were done from over 30 feet. Presumably writable tags could also be made to work from a long distance.

It is extremely unlikely that they could be made to work from orbit, but with enough money you might be able to get a few hundred feet of range.

Naturally they can be shielded to a large degree with a conductive foil or mesh with sufficiently small holes. A card in one's wallet or purse would easily be hidden with a metal lining, and an implanted tag would be blocked by suitably made clothing. A powerful reader at close range would still have a good probability of reading even well shielded tags.

Kelly
19th April 2008, 10:07
DaveK, you are looking at the current generation of commercially available RFID tags. If you think Radio Frequency chip technology ends with the stupid little chip that Wal-Mart is having sewn into the tags of our clothing or that is already occupying our groceries, think again. What you are talking about is cheap, level one technology. Never-the-less, even with level one technology in the swipe portion of your lovely new National ID Card, that swipe will supposedly be tied to your bank account in the days to come, so how are you going to shield your card if doing so means you can't buy anything at the store?

You are looking at the simple RFID tags that will go in labels, packaging and swipe cards. Those tags are passive in that they have no available energy source, which is why they cannot be read at too great a distance. But it's a whole different ballgame when you look at the implantable nano-chip technologies that are now known but not yet commercially available. The military and the CIA have apparently been experimenting with the technology since they inherited it from the Nazis after WWII.

I hate to tell you this, but those chips are not passive; their energy source is the body's own bio-electric system. Theoretically, those chips can run until you flat line.

People in the UFO research community were forced to look at implant devices whether we wanted to or not. And most of us didn't want to look at it but it wouldn't go away. The implants showed up in too many people. In some cases when those implants were located in somebody's toe or thigh or hand, they could be removed. But there were other implants that showed up attached to the frontal lobes near the pineal gland, and those could not be removed without threatening the life of the person. To listen to the stories the abductees told, those devices were implanted by using a long tube that went up through the sinus cavities, but who knows for certain how they got there? We discovered that there were layer upon layer of false memories in these people, and the truth just wasn't all that easy to get at.

Most of the implanted abductees were thoroughly convinced they had been abducted by very creepy beings from planet X, Venus or Mars (whatever) but I also interviewed a significant number of people who believed their abduction experience was a false memory and they were the unwitting victims of some sort of military-CIA black project.

It would have been easy for me to write these people off as the lunatic fringe except that if they were really lunatics, those implants shouldn't show up on x-rays, MRIs and CAT scans. But the implants were there whether we liked it or not, and the UFO research community simply couldn't wish that one away.

In the implant devices that were successfully removed, it was found that they had been totally grown over by clusters of nerve endings, which explained why so many people who had them reported being subjected to intense pain if they didn't obey the commands of "the voice" they heard in their head. As the above article I provided a link to clearly explains, certain radio frequencies in the microwave range as well as the ultra sound range can produce voices that can be heard intracranially, and if that wasn't the case, the patents for that technology would have never been filed in the first place. Those patents, by the way, were not filed by ugly little bug eyed creatures from outer space. They were filed by corporations who do the top secret work for the military and the CIA.

I saw enough during the years that I was actively involved in the UFO research community to come away believing that the evidence indicated that a significant number of people had been forced to participate against their will in a project so draconian in nature it made me want to puke my guts out. I finally had to stop being involved in the research because I simply couldn't handle looking at it any more. I guess I'm a lightweight.

Somebody already has the technology and they've been using it on people for years. The RFID technology you are describing is fairly simple but implantable radio frequency chips go way, way beyond that. Ask anybody who's been involved in the UFO research community.

As the following article indicates, apparently some other people in the research community are finally waking up to the fact that there is a heck of a lot more hard-core proof indicating these implants are the result of a military black project. How many aliens are involved, if any, still remains to be proven in my opinion.

http://www.thelosthaven.co.uk/Milabs.html

FedFixNix
19th April 2008, 19:36
I used to think that myself, Nix, but today I truly wonder. Think of the things that happened during the last supper. ....

There are things about Jesus' birth and the nativity that are indeed very strange. Though the linage of Jesus quoted in the books of Mathew and Luke seem to imply that Jesus was the son of Joseph, Mary's husband, both apostles make it incredibly clear in the main body of their work that they didn't believe that Joseph had anything to do at all with Jesus' birth. They both clearly state that Mary had "known no man" when she became pregnant with Jesus, and Joseph clearly believed that he was not the father of her child. So the fact that there is any linage at all in the books of Mathew and Luke suggesting Joseph was Jesus' father, is incredibly odd indeed. We may ultimately have to suspect that those lineages were inserted later by the priesthoods and scribes. The Pharisees and Sadducees were not necessarily known for their honesty and Jesus point blank accused them of lying and messing around with the scriptures......

I've been wondering about this and studying it for decades.....

I do not believe that if Jesus actually fathered a child that in any way makes him less than he was.

He was special, FedFixNix. I believe emphatically that Jesus fathered a son and that Magdalene named that child David, just as Jesus had asked her to do. If I am correct, then Jesus was indeed "the root and the seed of David" but it was not a reference to a royal line of Kings, but to a little child that hopefully passed resistance to SGD (psychopaths bent on greed and control at all costs) on to a good many people in the human race.

If I am correct then it makes his words, "Verily, verily I say unto you, except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood; ye have no life in you" entirely more significant, for those words are pregnant with meaning if Jesus knew he was passing his genetics on to mankind.

...

I think a God of Love would have created Jesus with a protection and cure in his genetic makeup, and I think Jesus would have been very aware of how important that little piece of DNA was. He would have passed that DNA on, not because he intended to create a royal bloodline, but because he wanted to give the human race some protection against a genetic disease that ultimately leads to the kind of psychopathy so incredibly evident in the banking families and the monarchies.



If I am right about this, then Jesus left the human race his most precious gift of all; the gift of DNA that was capable of withstanding the genetic disease of psychopaths.

Throughout the Bible's history, people were told that "The spirit is strong but the flesh is weak." So maybe Jesus was the cure to that problem in more ways than one.

Even if this is not your belief, FedFixNix, it's a belief I hang on to and cherish. I'd like to think that there is a little bit of Jesus in all good people who strive to live their lives in an honest and decent way. This would in no way do anything at all to the subject of faith and spirituality. It would only mean that people who had inherited that DNA got the gift of protection against a genetic disease that can quite literally turn men into insane monsters.



Today men with those royal bloodlines sick with that disease do not have monarchies to lead as they once did. They are driven to control through globalist corporations and the banking system instead. They are very, very sick and one could hope that somehow, some way, if Jesus did indeed father a child, someone who carries the cure for their disease will mate into that "royal" bloodline, and hopefully doing so will save this poor tattered world from still another sick, evil tyrant from being born.

I know you think I am wrong here, FedFixNix, and that's okay. But having a child would not have made Jesus any less of person. In fact, I think that my belief that he was capable of falling in love and siring a child makes him just that much more remarkable. A man who could not find it in his heart to love a woman seems far more frightening and certainly less human and humane to me. Kelly, I am going to respond to this privately, as I think a public discussion of such matters might offend many who might be reading along, and this is, after all, a silver forum. :-) You have done an incredible job of working through some of this on your own. Perhaps I may be able to shed some light on some of the areas here you find problematic. I struggled with these same questions for many decades. There is a new epochal revelation in the world that clarifies much of the misunderstanding about the life and teachings of Jesus. More than this I will not go into here. FedNix

Kelly
21st April 2008, 10:30
"After WWI, Germany fell into the hands of the German International Bankers. Those bankers bought her and they now own her, lock, stock and barrel. They purchased her industries, they have mortgages on her soil, they control her production; they control all her public utilities. The International German Bankers have subsidized the present government of Germany and they have also supplied every dollar of the money Adolf Hitler has used in his lavish campaign to build up a threat to the government of Bruening. When Bruening fails to obey the orders of the German International Bankers, Hitler is brought forth to scare the Germans into submission. Through the Federal Reserve Board over thirty billions of dollars was pumped into Germany…You have all heard of the spending that has taken place in Germany…modernistic dwellings, her great planetariums, her gymnasiums, her swimming pools, her fine public highways, her perfect factories….All this was done with our money. All this was given to Germany through the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board has pumped so many billions of dollars into Germany that they dare not name the total." - Rep. Lewis T. McFadden (D PA), Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, 1931, (spoken before Congress eight years before Hitler invaded Poland and duly entered into the Congressional Record.)

McFadden's statement has always intrigued me. I figured if anybody knew what the Fed had been doing it would have been the Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee. So, I began to seriously research the Federal Reserve Bank and here is some of what I found out.

Although the privately owned Federal Reserve Act of 1913 provided the names of the owner banks be kept a secret, R.E. McMaster, publisher of the newsletter, ” The Reaper,” discovered, through confidential Swiss banking connections, that today the following banks have controlling interest in the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank.

1. Rothchild Banks of London and Berlin
2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By Rockefellers)

In his impeccably researched book “Secrets of the Privately Owned Federal Reserve”, another researcher, Eustace Mullins, states: “Because the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank of New York sets interest rates and controls the daily supply of price of currency throughout America, the owners of that bank are the real directors of that whole system. These shareholders have controlled our political and economic destinies since 1913.” Those shareholders making up Mullins’ list are, for all intents and purposes, identical to the one compiled by McMaster's Swiss banking source.

1. The Rothchilds
2. Lazard Freres (Eugene Mayer)
3. Israel Sieff
4. Kuhn Loeb Company (Jacob H. Schiff) (Warburgs)
5. Warburg Company
6. Lehman Brothers
7. Goldman Sachs
8. The Rockefeller family and J.P. Morgan interests

I decided to dig a little deeper and find out what the German connections were to the banking families that own the Federal Reserve. It wasn't all that difficult; all I had to do was Google each of the banking families and include the words "German history" behind their names. (You can do the same.) Voila! This is what I found out…

1. Rothchild Banks of London and Berlin (Germany and France)
2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris (Eugene Mayer, Germany)
3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy (Italy)
4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam (Germany)
5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York (Germany)
6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York (Germany)
7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York (Germany)
8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York - Controlled By Rockefellers
(Germany and France)

McFadden had said, "After WWI, Germany fell into the hands of the German International Bankers. Those bankers bought her and they now own her, lock, stock and barrel." But it's very doubtful if McFadden would have realized that the Fed owners were, for all intents and purposes, one and the same with the German International banking families because who actually owned the Fed is really fairly recent research and way before McFadden's time. Ultimately seven out of eight of the Fed banking families have German banking family backgrounds, and seven out of eight of the Fed banking families are Jewish. So we didn't just have "German banking families" backing Hitler, we had the Jewish-German banking families that secretly owned the Federal Reserve Bank backing the entire Nazi movement. Furthermore, those maniacal despots were using the profits made from the interest they charged Americans for printing money out of thin air to do so!

It's really Macheveillian beyond belief. The Federal Reserve Act (Glass-Owen Act) was passed by stealth on Dec. 23, 1913 when many congressmen had already left DC for the Xmas holidays. One year later, WWI began. After three years of fighting, Germany had nearly destroyed England. The Federal Reserve and the banks that privately owned it had lent billions to the English and would stand to lose all of it if she were crushed. The only solution appeared to be pulling the U.S. into the war. The U.S. however, would not fight unless first attacked.

In 1915, J.P. Morgan and his banking associates established their plan to have the British liner, "Lusitania" with 128 American passengers onboard, laden with munitions, cruise right through the middle of the wartime shipping lanes in order to be sunk by a German submarine, thus bringing the U.S. directly into the conflagration.

It worked, and with the United States' official declaration of war on Germany in 1917, financing our own war efforts would produce astronomical profits for the private bankers who owned the Fed. Thanks to the new (and still questioned) income tax and IRS, taxpayer money would now flow like never before into the hands of private bankers as the government taxed the citizens and paid the interest to the Fed to finance the war. Then the Fed took those ill-begotten profits of their World War I manipulations and financed Hitler's rise to power. Amazing...

Then America, once again, had to borrow copious amounts of money from the Federal Reserve Bank to fight Hitler! Does anyone see a pattern here?

But the real mind boggler is what happened directly after the war. After WWII ended in 1945, victorious Russian and American intelligence teams began a treasure hunt throughout occupied Germany for military and scientific booty. They were looking for things like new rocket and aircraft designs, medicines, and electronics. But they were also hunting down the most precious "spoils" of all: the scientists whose work had nearly won the war for Germany; the engineers and intelligence officers of the Nazi War Machine.

The U.S. Military rounded up Nazi scientists and brought them to America. It had originally intended merely to debrief them and send them back to Germany. But when the military realized the extent of the scientist's knowledge and expertise, the War Department decided it would be a waste to send the scientists home. Following the discovery of flying discs (the "foo fighters" now called UFOs), particle/laser beam weaponry in German military bases, the War Department decided that NASA and the CIA must control this technology and the Nazi engineers that had worked on this technology.

There was only one problem: it was illegal. U.S. law explicitly prohibited Nazi officials from immigrating to America--and as many as three-quarters of the scientists in question had been committed Nazis.

Convinced that German scientists could help America's postwar efforts, President Harry Truman agreed in September 1946 to authorize "Project Paperclip," a program to bring selected German scientists to work on America's behalf during the "Cold War." When you stop and think about what really happened here, we may well have won the war against Germany, but did we win the war against the Nazis? Nearly as many of them were recruited by Russia. So throughout the entire cold war, the American technologies that were basically the brainchild of the Nazis were in a battle against the Russian technologies that were also the brainchild of the Nazis. In retrospect, all this did was produce technological compitetion between America and Russia, when both countries were thoroughly infiltrated by Nazi scientists leading the cold war rise of very questionable sciences.

Ultimately, records indicate that approximately 700 scientists from Nazi Germany were brought to America directly after the war. These men became the ground floor scientific research teams for the newly organized NASA and the CIA. Incredibly, the evidence indicates that the banking families that own the Fed not only financed Hitler's rise to power and the Nazi regime, it was Fed money that actually brought those same Nazis to America to infiltrate and even lead America's space program and CIA.

Many people on this forum have pointed out that our government is becoming increasingly fascist of late.

Is it really any wonder?

FedFixNix
21st April 2008, 11:59
Ohhh Nix! LOL! I've got about six of those books started myself! And one of the reasons I do all this research is because when I find these interesting articles, I save them to a file on my hard drive that serves as part of my research documentation.

Yep, that exactly what I do. Got computer material classified into about a dozen categories, History, Government, Economics, Monetary Reform, Land Reforms, Tax Reforms, Spiritual, Moral & Ethical Reforms. I've started several books and have 6 websites in progress. I just lack the willpower to isolate myself from immediate contact long enough to get something finished. So I wind up posting to forums like this one instead.


I've got enough research under my belt to be able to judge very quickly whether the information is just somebody's wild hype or if it has merit. So ultimately, posting these articles also benefits me 'cuz I save the files for that book I will hopefully one day actually finish.Me too. I posted for about a year to forum threads on World Poverty, Abolishing the Fed, our insane race toward apocalypse and then they closed down the site. The site was Omidyar.net, run by a trust set up by Pam and Pierre Omidyar, the founders of eBay. Funny how it just shut down like that. ;-)


You are so right on about the banking organizations; they are all different parts of one single system that ultimately controls and manipulates the currencies and economies of the entire world. They are lethal and responsible for the deaths of millions and millions of people starving in third world countries all over the world. It's just horrible.I figure about 2 to 6 billion people will perish from the waves of disasters being brought on by the Money-Masters. They want that to happen so the remaining populations can be more easily "managed". They want a base of economic serfs and servants, but they don't want it to be too large or uncontrollable.


FedFixNix? I've been meaning to ask you a question. Somewhere in Bill Still's video, The Money Masters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=Money+Masters&total=3309&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) he tells us that another bank (I thought it was the IMF) is printing US currency dollars today. It's such a long film, and I've been trying to find it but I don't want to have to go through the whole thing again. Do you recall what it was that he said about that? And especially, do you remember if the bank was the IMF, or was it another world bank? I've been trying to locate internet articles on the subject, and so far am having no luck. Thanks ahead of time.I haven't had the time to go back over it, but I really don't recall that being mentioned.

It mentions that all us money comes from two sources: coins comes from the US Mint, and bills are printed by the treasury department at the direction of the Fed.

Of course coins and bills make up only a small fraction of the total money supply, perhaps 3 percent or so. Most of our money is created out of nothing by banks when they make loans, or finance credit purchases. Most money is electronically created now with a bookkeeping entry, and it all carries exorbitant interest far beyond our ability as a civilization to ever repay it.

FFN

Michael Rivero:



"Most people prefer to believe their leaders are just and fair even in the face of evidence to the contrary, because once a citizen acknowledges that the government under which they live is lying and corrupt, the citizen has to choose what he or she will do about it.

To take action in the face of a corrupt government entails risks of harm to life and loved ones. To choose to do nothing is to surrender one's self-image of standing for principles. Most people do not have the courage to face that choice. Hence, most propaganda is not designed to fool the critical thinker, but only to give moral cowards an excuse not to think at all."

DaveK
21st April 2008, 13:09
You are looking at the simple RFID tags that will go in labels, packaging and swipe cards. Those tags are passive in that they have no available energy source, which is why they cannot be read at too great a distance. But it's a whole different ballgame when you look at the implantable nano-chip technologies that are now known but not yet commercially available. The military and the CIA have apparently been experimenting with the technology since they inherited it from the Nazis after WWII.

I hate to tell you this, but those chips are not passive; their energy source is the body's own bio-electric system. Theoretically, those chips can run until you flat line.


I'm aware of powered chips. Call me a skeptic. The quality of the information available about such things is exceedingly low. It is easy to scaremonger and speculate, much harder to develop anything that I'd classify as credible information. It is of course important to seek and brainstorm and try to ferret out what details are available, but you have to remember to keep a good handle on what is weakly supported speculation and what is supported by good evidence.

Why? Quite simply, because your rich and shadowy opponents are much, much better at information warfare than you are. Consider the highly credible, some might even say gullible, nature of many of the people who participate in such speculation. If you were on the other side of the game, how would you see these people? Right, as a valuable asset in spreading misinformation and confusion. Leak a little info here, plant a couple of shills there, establish a few Wikipedia information fiefdoms, and your real enemy, the people who know some of the truth, are deluged in fresh steaming piles of information.

I know a guy who was involved in military psy-ops for many years. Of course he can't tell us anything interesting, but has discussed on occasion the principles behind some of the more mundane tasks they do (routine stuff, more like marketing than what most people think of when they hear 'psy-ops'), and he's dropped a few hints that there are some very scary and highly talented people that he's come into contact with. Kind of like the Green Berets of information warfare, they take what's available and twist it to mislead and confuse. Professional information illusionists, if you will.

In deliberate conflict you know you will always have incomplete information, and you can be fairly confident that your opponent or opponents will be making efforts to poison the information you do have. Too many people are more interested in trying to learn the truth than in winning the fight. By continuing to produce misinformation and other tantalizing tidbits, a talented opponent can tie up your resources in exploring the fantasy world they create for you while they proceed, largely unopposed.

Every hour you spend ferreting out ever more detailed bits of the story and filling in connections is an hour you spent inside their fantasy world instead of informing other people of the really solid, credible facts about the very existence of the conflict.

Make sure you're playing the right game.

Incidentally, for entertainment purposes, the movies "The Game", "EXistenZ" and "Brainscan" might be of interest as they all explore themes of losing track of reality. EXistenZ was the best of the lot, IMO.

DaveK
21st April 2008, 14:31
Somewhere in Bill Still's video, The Money Masters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-515319560256183936&q=Money+Masters&total=3309&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0) he tells us that another bank (I thought it was the IMF) is printing US currency dollars today.

Printing them under US authority? I must have missed that part, I don't remember anything about it. Perhaps time to review it again.

Some readers might be interested to read about the North Korean supernotes:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/07/23/magazine/23counterfeit.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

By the way, thanks again to both Kelly and FedFixNix for the wealth of interesting information they've both posted here in various threads. I love the historical context it builds, you just can't get this stuff in any school. Also thanks for the book references, I've added a couple of things to my summer reading list already.

FedFixNix
21st April 2008, 17:10
I don't know here you get itme to type all this stuff up Kelly, or cut and paste, even. :-) I means to respond to this many days ago. Most of this can be read right out of any one of the better books out there by Sutton, McMaster, Engdahl, Mullins, AB Jones, Skousen, Griffin, and many others.

But the best of the best is the modern history written by CFR insider Prof. Carroll Quigley, who generally approved of all of these elitist plans except their secrecy. He thought those behind this master plan for humanity should be given credit by historians for their brilliant accomplishments! So in his monumental work, Tragedy and Hope: A History of the World in our Time, he spilled the beans, and I do mean ALL the beans. All that you have written below is there and much more. It is the one book that everyone should read who hopes to understand our modern world. And yet is is not, of course the entire story, as no one book can include everything.


"After WWI, Germany fell into the hands of the German International Bankers. Those bankers bought her and they now own her, lock, stock and barrel. ….All this was done with our money. All this was given to Germany through the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board has pumped so many billions of dollars into Germany that they dare not name the total." - Rep. Lewis T. McFadden (D PA), Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, 1931, (spoken before Congress eight years before Hitler invaded Poland and duly entered into the Congressional Record.)....

Although the privately owned Federal Reserve Act of 1913 provided the names of the owner banks be kept a secret, R.E. McMaster, publisher of the newsletter, ” The Reaper,” discovered, through confidential Swiss banking connections, that today the following banks have controlling interest in the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank.

1. Rothchild Banks of London and Berlin
2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris
3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy
4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam
5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York
6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York
7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York
8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York (Controlled By Rockefellers)

In his impeccably researched book “Secrets of the Privately Owned Federal Reserve”, another researcher, Eustace Mullins, states: “Because the privately owned Federal Reserve Bank of New York sets interest rates and controls the daily supply of price of currency throughout America, the owners of that bank are the real directors of that whole system. These shareholders have controlled our political and economic destinies since 1913.” Those shareholders making up Mullins’ list are, for all intents and purposes, identical to the one compiled by McMaster's Swiss banking source.

1. The Rothchilds
2. Lazard Freres (Eugene Mayer)
3. Israel Sieff
4. Kuhn Loeb Company (Jacob H. Schiff) (Warburgs)
5. Warburg Company
6. Lehman Brothers
7. Goldman Sachs
8. The Rockefeller family and J.P. Morgan interests

I decided to dig a little deeper and find out what the German connections were to the banking families that own the Federal Reserve. It wasn't all that difficult; all I had to do was Google each of the banking families and include the words "German history" behind their names. (You can do the same.) Voila! This is what I found out…

1. Rothschild Banks of London and Berlin (Germany and France)
2. Lazard Brothers Bank of Paris (Eugene Mayer, Germany)
3. Israel Moses Sieff Banks of Italy (Italy)
4. Warburg Bank of Hamburg, Germany and Amsterdam (Germany)
5. Kuhn Loeb Bank of New York (Germany)
6. Lehman Brothers Bank of New York (Germany)
7. Goldman Sachs Bank of New York (Germany)
8. Chase Manhattan Bank of New York - Controlled By Rockefellers
(Germany and France)

....Ultimately seven out of eight of the Fed banking families have German banking family backgrounds, and seven out of eight of the Fed banking families are Jewish. So we didn't just have "German banking families" backing Hitler, we had the Jewish-German banking families that secretly owned the Federal Reserve Bank backing the entire Nazi movement. Furthermore, those maniacal despots were using the profits made from the interest they charged Americans for printing money out of thin air to do so!

It's really Macheveillian beyond belief. The Federal Reserve Act (Glass-Owen Act) was passed by stealth on Dec. 23, 1913 when many congressmen had already left DC for the Xmas holidays. One year later, WWI began. After three years of fighting, Germany had nearly destroyed England. The Federal Reserve and the banks that privately owned it had lent billions to the English and would stand to lose all of it if she were crushed. The only solution appeared to be pulling the U.S. into the war. The U.S. however, would not fight unless first attacked.

In 1915, J.P. Morgan and his banking associates established their plan to have the British liner, "Lusitania" with 128 American passengers onboard, laden with munitions, cruise right through the middle of the wartime shipping lanes in order to be sunk by a German submarine, thus bringing the U.S. directly into the conflagration.

It worked, and with the United States' official declaration of war on Germany in 1917, financing our own war efforts would produce astronomical profits for the private bankers who owned the Fed. Thanks to the new (and still questioned) income tax and IRS, taxpayer money would now flow like never before into the hands of private bankers as the government taxed the citizens and paid the interest to the Fed to finance the war. Then the Fed took those ill-begotten profits of their World War I manipulations and financed Hitler's rise to power. Amazing...

Then America, once again, had to borrow copious amounts of money from the Federal Reserve Bank to fight Hitler! Does anyone see a pattern here?

But the real mind boggler is what happened directly after the war. After WWII ended in 1945, victorious Russian and American intelligence teams began a treasure hunt throughout occupied Germany for military and scientific booty. They were looking for things like new rocket and aircraft designs, medicines, and electronics. But they were also hunting down the most precious "spoils" of all: the scientists whose work had nearly won the war for Germany; the engineers and intelligence officers of the Nazi War Machine.

The U.S. Military rounded up Nazi scientists and brought them to America. It had originally intended merely to debrief them and send them back to Germany. But when the military realized the extent of the scientist's knowledge and expertise, the War Department decided it would be a waste to send the scientists home. Following the discovery of flying discs (the "foo fighters" now called UFOs), particle/laser beam weaponry in German military bases, the War Department decided that NASA and the CIA must control this technology and the Nazi engineers that had worked on this technology.

There was only one problem: it was illegal. U.S. law explicitly prohibited Nazi officials from immigrating to America--and as many as three-quarters of the scientists in question had been committed Nazis.

Convinced that German scientists could help America's postwar efforts, President Harry Truman agreed in September 1946 to authorize "Project Paperclip," a program to bring selected German scientists to work on America's behalf during the "Cold War." When you stop and think about what really happened here, we may well have won the war against Germany, but did we win the war against the Nazis? Nearly as many of them were recruited by Russia. So throughout the entire cold war, the American technologies that were basically the brainchild of the Nazis were in a battle against the Russian technologies that were also the brainchild of the Nazis. In retrospect, all this did was produce technological compitetion between America and Russia, when both countries were thoroughly infiltrated by Nazi scientists leading the cold war rise of very questionable sciences.

Ultimately, records indicate that approximately 700 scientists from Nazi Germany were brought to America directly after the war. These men became the ground floor scientific research teams for the newly organized NASA and the CIA. Incredibly, the evidence indicates that the banking families that own the Fed not only financed Hitler's rise to power and the Nazi regime, it was Fed money that actually brought those same Nazis to America to infiltrate and even lead America's space program and CIA.

Many people on this forum have pointed out that our government is becoming increasingly fascist of late.

Is it really any wonder?

This may be a revelation to some; it is old news to me. I have been warning people in the internet about the coming fascist hegemony for a decade or more. Hitler's Germany was just a practice game, or tune-up, or warmup, for what is now all but a done deal.

It's chilling to think that many of the architects of the Nazi Holocaust were themselves Jewish bankers and Zionists. Of course not all were, and the issue is not one of race or culture, as much as it is of power and control. The Lords of Darkness use those who lust for power, and they are of all races, creeds and cultures. It just happens that the origins of modern banking go back to Solomon's Temple and beyond through those who worked in gold or silver... the Goldsmiths.

Kelly
21st April 2008, 20:29
In deliberate conflict you know you will always have incomplete information, and you can be fairly confident that your opponent or opponents will be making efforts to poison the information you do have. Too many people are more interested in trying to learn the truth than in winning the fight. By continuing to produce misinformation and other tantalizing tidbits, a talented opponent can tie up your resources in exploring the fantasy world they create for you while they proceed, largely unopposed.


DaveK, while I will always defend your right to your freedom of opinion, "tantilizing tidbits" did not explain the many people I interviewed who, on all other counts seemed perfectly sane, showed no psychosis that I could see, and were working responsibly in jobs. What happened to them was beyond my ability to easily dismiss, or much less explain away. There were way, way too many people going through precisely the same program. "Mass hallucination" does not fill the bill; most of those people lived in completely different parts of the country, had never met each other, and were, for the most part, extremely hesitant about even talking about their experiences. I was in on these interviews early enough in the UFO research years to know that these folks had not picked up on these things from the many books or TV shows that made it to the public in later years.

I am very aware of the misinformation that's out there. But these folks were not part of that agenda. They were common, every day, reasonably bright people who were so horribly traumatized by what had happended to them, (or still was in many cases) that it literally pulled the rug out from underneath their lives. In many cases, I met and interviewed their spouses and their children as well. I didn't find a whole lot of physical evidence to support all the physical abduction theories that abound. What I did find though was a good deal of evidence that some sort of mental or psychic abduction had indeed taken place.

Misinformation is often spread by people inclined to prance across the stage at conferences and such. Those folks get pretty easy to spot after a while.

Kelly
21st April 2008, 20:38
This may be a revelation to some; it is old news to me. I have been warning people in the internet about the coming fascist hegemony for a decade or more. Hitler's Germany was just a practice game, or tune-up, or warmup, for what is now all but a done deal.

It's chilling to think that many of the architects of the Nazi Holocaust were themselves Jewish bankers and Zionists. Of course not all were, and the issue is not one of race or culture, as much as it is of power and control. The Lords of Darkness use those who lust for power, and they are of all races, creeds and cultures. It just happens that the origins of modern banking go back to Solomon's Temple and beyond through those who worked in gold or silver... the Goldsmiths.


Oh Nix, I was certain you'd already know these things, but some people reading this thread may not have heard of Paperclip yet, or realized what happened.

And by the way, it is important that people realize that our words are not said to express anti-semitism in any way. No race or religion has ever been without it's own despots and the Jewish people are no different from any other race or religion in that respect.

I have, by the way, three children who are half Jewish, and many, many Jewish friends. The elitist Jewish faction in the international banking community is the exception, not the rule.

Kelly
21st April 2008, 20:51
Originally Posted by Kelly
Somewhere in Bill Still's video, The Money Masters (http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...arch&plindex=0) he tells us that another bank (I thought it was the IMF) is printing US currency dollars today.

Printing them under US authority? I must have missed that part, I don't remember anything about it. Perhaps time to review it again.


Dave, I think you're right, I went back and reviewed the video and couldn't find it either. I have also googled it several times now, and can't find anything indicating it's true.

I may have seen something about IMF bank notes being printed in Europe or somewhere else. Who knows? I'll probably run across it again someday.

DaveK
22nd April 2008, 14:14
"tantilizing tidbits" did not explain the many people I interviewed who, on all other counts seemed perfectly sane, showed no psychosis that I could see, and were working responsibly in jobs.

Have you ever seen an illusionist hypnotize people on stage? Lots of otherwise normal people will sometimes do unusual things just for the entertainment of the attention (those who do not are filtered out). Some people are highly suggestible, for example, attributing sounds to ghosts while sitting in the dark woods after having been told fabricated tales of troubled spirits (there are fascinating and entertaining video programs wherein this propensity is studied). In relating their experiences to others who are seeking information people will sometimes exaggerate or speculate or outright lie.

It is well known and well documented that eyewitness accounts often correlate poorly to actual events. They can make a good starting point for an investigation, but they make bad data points.

Does this mean that all of the people you spoke to provided fictional information? Of course not. But it is unlikely that all of the information is accurate, and I can't accept your intuitive filter of what is and is not (no slight to your opinion intended, but the rules of the telephone game apply).

I don't say this in an effort to convince you of anything, you already have your methods and my opinion will not change them, nor do I think that it should. I explain because I think that it is helpful in a discussion for the participants to understand to some degree how the others think, to better take advantage of the 'cross-pollination' of ideas.

I choose to be highly skeptical of the stories people tell me. 'Pictures, or it didn't happen', as they say. This is a result of a philosophical choice I made long ago, that, incidentally, I had to explain to a Jehovah's Witness just this past weekend (I encouraged him to return, is that like feeding a stray cat?). I would rather be skeptical of many things and thereby miss a few that are true than credulous of many things and thereby accept a few that are false. Naturally, 'skeptical of' does not mean I reject those things, as that would be an unjustified positive claim to knowledge about the truth.



Misinformation is often spread by people inclined to prance across the stage at conferences and such. Those folks get pretty easy to spot after a while.

Such as David Wilcock in this video from the Conscious Life Expo?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5b-kLvppdg

Very entertaining stuff. If I'm ever in the area when another such expo takes place I should like to attend. I'm sure I'd meet many fascinating people with a wealth of non-mainstream information.

However, IMO, Wilcock is an example of a guy who's mind is so open that his brain fell out. Clearly a very smart man and knowledgeable about an incredible range of subjects, but also highly credulous.

He reminds me of the character Xenophilius Lovegood from the Harry Potter book series. He explores arcane realms of knowledge unknown to the majority, accepts as evidence unverifiable facts, and most likely knows truths that others could not reach. The problem is figuring out what's really true!

There are no discrete steps along the continuum from 'skeptical' to 'credulous' and I find that it's easier for people to slide one way than the other, particularly in socially isolated groups. Stated another way, it's easier to agree than to dissent and easier to reason intuitively than to seek evidence. The result is predictable.

Anyway, please accept my apologies for dragging this part of the discussion so far afield, it's hard to avoid getting off on tangents when the company is so good :)

Kelly
22nd April 2008, 17:52
However, IMO, Wilcock is an example of a guy who's mind is so open that his brain fell out. Clearly a very smart man and knowledgeable about an incredible range of subjects, but also highly credulous.

LOL! You have no idea how much I appreciate your sentiment. Mr. Wilcock and I have had some rather severe disagreements in the past, and I am in total agreement with you. Forgive me if I don't watch the video. I don't think I could stomach it.

Dave, I am probably a good deal more skeptical about things than you give me credit for. If I were not, I would have become quite convinced that the abduction experiences reported by the people I interviewed represented a real physical event.

What I am convinced of is that there is far more evidence for an ongoing black ops project dealing in mind control experiments that has been going on in this country since the days of MK Ultra. I did not "imagine" MK Ultra and nobody else did either. And yes, I am very aware that the Senate outlawed the continuation of that program and it's offshoots, but when that happens, it's been my conclusion that said programs simply get buried in the black budget which unfortunately only gives the government "deniability" thereafter.

I look at the science, the patents, and read a good deal from the physicists who have been blowing the whistle on the "non-lethal weapons" programs and I am afraid that the evidence I've seen certainly does suggest an ongoing program in mind control, which is generally passed off as "how to control enemy troops" or "crowd control" techniques in the various documents gleened through the Freedom of Information Act. I am personally convinced that a good many people have become the unwitting test cases for those programs.

For instance, you might look at the illustrious career of Andrija Puharich; just Google him. I consider him one of the more unsavory characters on the planet, never-the-less he has long been involved with Stanford Research Institute, which is primarily funded by the military. This guy has got to make even you wonder… This Mr. New Age UFO advocate of a rather curious "channeling" empire, and his sidekick, James Hurtak, have managed to suck in a whole lot of very influentual Washington DC people; including Al Gore. David Wilcock is another one who is regularly plugged into the whole Puharich-Hurtak circle, which has now grown very big. In fact, it is now world-wide.

http://www.timboucher.com/journal/2005/07/12/puharich-elf-tooth-implants/

http://redpill.dailygrail.com/wiki/Andrija_Puharich

Besided the "abduction Phenomenon," the following article is the kind of thing I was running into. I found it disturbing, extremely suspicious and very suggestive that some sort of group mind control program was operating. And you have no idea how many groups like this exist out there.

http://www.uri-geller.com/nine.htm



"I choose to be highly skeptical of the stories people tell me. 'Pictures, or it didn't happen', as they say. This is a result of a philosophical choice I made long ago, that, incidentally, I had to explain to a Jehovah's Witness just this past weekend (I encouraged him to return, is that like feeding a stray cat?)."

Do you want an answer to this question? Because if you do, the answer is "Yes." You'd better go buy a bag of catfood… :p

FedFixNix
22nd April 2008, 23:22
This thread just keeps getting better and better!

I wish I had time to chime in.

FFN

Kelly
23rd April 2008, 04:01
Here is an excerpt from an article written by one dear, little flibberty gibit who calls herself "Misty." This article precisely illustrates why I find men like Andrija Puharich (now deceased), J. J. Hurtak, Dave Wilcock, Lambert Dolphin, Drunvalo Melchizedek, Benjamin Creme and a host of others so incredibly worrisome. What is even more incredulous is that there are apparently a great number of high ranking government officials who buy into this stuff, including people who work for the military, NASA and the CIA, not to mention a great many people who belong to the ever so illustrious clubs like the United Nations, the Council on Foreign Relations and the Bilderberger group. Furthermore, high ranking people in Europe, Asia, Mexico and South America are equally drawn into what has ultimately become the "New Age Religion" for the "New World Order." I have witnessed this evolve in my lifetime.

Never-the-less, as utterly skeptical and incredulous as I am over such curious beliefs, when you get to the part about physicists rushing to Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory near Chicago because they were concerned over the enormous bursts of particles they were detecting in Earth's atmosphere, that part is, unfortunately, indeed quite true…

"Kuthumi claims that Atlantis’ gridlines were electromagnetic frequencies which were uniformly spaced lines which were used for telepathy and healing and built by Hermes Trismegistus who came from another star system. It was completed by the Elohim and the Devic kingdoms. Electromagnetic currents of energy traveling down the gridlines were used for positioning of sacred structures, such as pyramids and Stonehenge, organizing Earth’s energies, facilitating UFOs, guiding migration patterns for birds, dictating volcanic activity, directing gravity and antigravity activities, and directing the currents of the oceans. But the primary purpose of it was to connect the spiritual light bodies of individuals and supply a free and never ending source of energy to those who were connected to it. Kuthumi claims that all will be ready by 2011, enough people will be cleansed of their dark energies from the past by the increase of high frequency sunlight and solar flares etc. and that it will purge the memories of negativity. However not everyone will make it to become a member of the Adam Kadmon species. Kuthumi says our physicists are making connections to the occurrences and soon begin to grasp what’s going on with this plan. It all boils down to energy and this is a "scientific" assignment which will "assist" humans to take that quantum leap from being earthbound, to being godlike. Consciousness adjust to new vibrational frequencies. The nature of the intellect is nothing more than our perception of reality. These are the words of Kuthumi, formerly one of the Three Wise man, who also inexplicitly managed to be John the Beloved, even though John was born before Jesus and who works for Maitreya with Office of the Christ/World Teacher. He belongs to the Great White Brotherhood who was behind Madame Blavatsky (who was a supporter of Lucifer) and he says there are two groups running all the planet - the GWB and the Order of Melchizadek. However Ascended Masters may supposedly hold positions in each.

Looking at what James Hurtak claims in his Introduction to the Keys of Enoch book, he says magnetic fields are aligned through "aerials" of magnetic energy which mark the points where energies from outer space pour into the earth’s surface. They are balanced on the earth by the magnetic north and south pole. He says that when tremendous solar flare movements bombard these magnetic points of the earth, the magnetic fields of the earth will be set in cataclysmic imbalance, spinning the shell of the earth to new magnetic meridians, which find their balances equatorially. He too, in other words, claims the solar flares activate gridlines through positioned aerials. He claims one of the places the Higher Intelligences will return is the Takla Makan Basin in Tibet. Also that the aliens are sending solar radiation fields from one vortex to another to activate them. On a diagram he has a series of twelve major artificial time warp areas being created by the aliens. One is in Tibet and he has natural time warp areas on another map with lines drawn between them. A grid line is drawn between what he claims are natural time warp areas positioned in the sea off north western Australia and Afghanistan. There is a line which passes between them through Sumatra, Indonesia. One might wonder if they’d just sent a blast of solar energy from aerials between vortexes during the earthquake and tsunami? Though Sheldan Nidle, who channels Sirians, admitted that the Asian tsunami, was a byproduct of them adjusting the plates. This is necessary to induce the new timeline.

Especially as on Dec. 13 2001 www.earthchangestv.com website put up an article about puzzling cosmic rays. It claimed that a mysterious force hurling particles at the earth with an energy so intense as to defy known physics, brought scientists from around the world to Fermi National Accelerator Laboratory near Chicago to plot a counter attack. Led by James Cronin, the University of Chicagos Nobel laureate physicist, cosmic ray researchers hope to assimilate a grid of ray detectors that would cover an area the size of Delaware. Only information about two of the known rays was gained, when measured by scientists in Japan and Utah and they found that they were charged with energies 100 million times greater than those produced at the Fermi Accelerator, which is the world’s most powerful. Scientists said that even an explosion of the largest stars couldn’t produce particles of such energy according to the laws of physics as they are now understood." Could it be those aliens in their motherships again above Tibet?

According to http://www.indiadaily.com there has recently been an everyday phenomenon of thousands of UFO sighting in Northern India near the Himalayan border, notably strange lighted triangular silent craft showing up from underground and moving almost vertically up from deep into the tectonic plates. It claimed the five members of the UN Security Council all know the order of the Universe. The extra terrestrial bodies set the rules and dictate what these countries can and cannot do. India now has the ability to be amongst the world’s most powerful nations and is seeking a seat on the Security Council of UN, which has been recommended by the other five members. India has been seen to having their security forces protecting this UFO base in Kongka La, the low ridge pass in the Himalayas on the disputed shared India-China border area in Ladakh. The area is one of the least accessed areas in the world and by agreement the two countries do not patrol that part of the border. However, there is something much more serious happening in this area which neither the Indian or Chinese Governments want to expose this and other secret UFO bases in the Himalayas and under the Indian Ocean. Strange phenomenon is also occurring.

Apparently, according to the India Daily, it is well accepted between the UFO experts that all the five nuclear powers are in contact with the beings from other stars for quite some time. Indian military officials and politicians have confessed the fact that India has been contacted and now India has also been told "the rules of the Universe". Alien contact with South Asian governments have also occured with. UFO sightings have been rampant over the region affected by the tsunami. The India Daily claim that some in Nicobar Island say that it was an experiment conducted by the aliens entities to correct the wobbly rotation of the earth. And some of the Indian scientists are actually seeing that wobbly rotation of the earth has been corrected since the massive underwater earthquake and Tsunami. There has recently been a rush of world leaders to India. Major American Senators have visited or plan to, and the EU is in deep discussion with India on cooperation. All sanctions against India's nuclear programs and space research are in the process of being lifted and she is cooperating with the EU and the US in space explorations and technology research program. India Daily writes that given analysis, it seems like India is being told by the world to abide by the hidden protocols and in exchange become a superpower. However there is internal debate about whether to abide by the laws of the world and the Universe to be recognized as a superpower or be truthful to its citizens and the world and not all Indian politicians support the "rules".

To further understand my concern, here is the full article…

http://www.angelfire.com/nm2/aona/gridlines2.html

Smokescreens….

Kelly
23rd April 2008, 12:56
So where does all this come from? This phenomenon called "channeling," which is declared to come from either "gods, UFOnauts, or discarnate spirits" is worldwide now.

What began with Mdme Blavatsky and the Theosophical Society back in the late 1800s has become a plethora of high strangeness that is not easily explained away. Perhaps this phenomenon has always been a part of the groups that are generally referred to as "Illuminati," but having never belonged to one of those groups, I don't really know.

Wikipedia informs us that the Illuminati movement was founded on May 1, 1776, in Ingolstadt (Upper Bavaria in SE Germany), by Jesuit-taught Adam Weishaupt (d. 1830), who was the first lay professor of canon law at the University of Ingolstadt. The movement was made up of freethinkers, as an offshoot of "the Enlightenment," which some believe was a conspiracy to infiltrate and overthrow the governments of many European states. In modern times it refers to a purported conspiratorial organization which acts as a shadowy power behind the throne, allegedly controlling world affairs through present day governments and corporations, usually as a modern incarnation or continuation of the Bavarian Illuminati. In this context, Illuminati is often used in reference to a New World Order (NWO). The group's adherents were given the name Illuminati, although they called themselves "Perfectibilists". The group has also been called the Illuminati Order, and the Bavarian Illuminati, and the movement itself has been referred to as Illuminism. In 1777, Karl Theodor, Elector Palatine, succeeded as ruler of Bavaria. He was a proponent of "Enlightened Despotism" and in 1784, his government banned all secret societies, including the Illuminati. In my opinion, banning secret societies only drives them deeper underground into even darker shadows of secrecy which may indeed have been the intended purpose behind officially banning the Illuminist groups in the first place.

Wiki also informs the reader that "benevolent despotism or enlightened despotism" is a form of despotism in which rulers were influenced by "the Enlightenment," (whatever that means). "Enlightened absolutists' beliefs about royal power were often similar to those of absolute monarchs, in that many believed that they had the right to govern by birth and generally refused to grant constitutions, seeing even the most pro-monarchy ones as being an inherent check on their power."

We see that curious belief in "enlightened despotism" reflected in the Bank of England's concern about America embracing our constitutional rights for printing our own money. "If this mischievous financial policy, which has its' origins in North America, shall be endured down to a fixture, then that government will furnish its own money without cost. It will pay off its debt and be without debt. It will have all the money necessary to carry on its commerce. It will become prosperous without precedence in the history of the world. The brains and the wealth of all countries will go to North America. That country must be destroyed or it will destroy every monarchy on the globe." - Editorial in The Times of London, 1862

It's not "theory" that in the same year that America declared her independence from England, the illuminati movement began in Germany, where seven out of eight of the international banking families that own the Federal Reserve Bank ultimately have their roots. Is that merely a coincidence, I wonder, or were those same banking families involved in that occultist movement and "enlightened despotism" as well? Many say they were.

In any case, we can be reasonably accurate in saying that the Illuminati movement spread throughout the aristocracy of Europe and eventually became the foundation of the very odd occult beliefs embraced by Nazi Germany who formed the Thule society. From there, through project Paperclip, that same occultism has apparently influenced the belief systems of various high ranking people within our own government.

The banking families who own the Federal Reserve Bank as well as Prescott Bush (G. Dubya's grandaddy) supported the rise of Hitler and the Nazi movement, and there is no "conspiracy theory" behind that; it's a fact. Prescott Bush was sited three times by congress for "Un-American activities" during WWII for selling oil to the Nazis while our own troops were in dire need of it. We've already discussed the fact that the Fed funneled billions into Germany from WWI on. This agenda was exposed to the senate in the speech given in 1931 by Congressmen Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee and duly entered into the congressional records as well. That too is not "theory", it's also a fact.

Is there an obvious link between the Fed, the phenomenon known as "channeling" as discussed in the above posts, Nazi Germany, UFOs, the New World Order and the New Age religion that has so mysteriously come on the scene and is influencing millions in every country of the world today?

Yes, there is indeed a link, and that link is truly curious beyond belief…

Kelly
23rd April 2008, 20:37
But first, before we discuss that very curious link, let us make the attempt to discern whether talk of the "New World Order" merely constitutes "the lunacy of conspiracy theory", or does the conspiracy to end our national sovereignty in fact truly exist? Webster's defines a theory in part as "abstract reasoning, an assumption, or a guess." Based upon the following quotes which are indeed quite factual, I would say that qualifying said discussion as "conspiracy theory" is in fact, a misnomer.

In other words, it's a label that does not fit the known facts…

We can't be so fixated on our desire to preserve the rights of ordinary Americans."- Bill Clinton, USA Today on 3/11/93, page 2a

"Today, America would be outraged if U.N. troops entered Los Angeles to restore order. Tomorrow they will be grateful! This is especially true if they were told that there were an outside threat from beyond, whether real or promulgated, that threatened our very existence. It is then that all peoples of the world will plead to deliver them from this evil. The one thing every man fears is the unknown. When presented with this scenario, individual rights will be willingly relinquished for the guarantee of their well-being granted to them by the World Government." - Henry Kissinger, Bilderberger Conference in Evians, France, 1991

“Some even believe we (the Rockefeller family) are part of a secret cabal working against the best interests of the United States, characterizing my family and me as ‘internationalists’ and of conspiring with others around the world to build a more integrated global political and economic structure – one world, if you will. If that's the charge, I stand guilty, and I am proud of it.” - David Rockefeller, Memoirs, page 405

"We are on the verge of a global transformation. All we need is the right major crisis and the nations will accept the New World Order." - David Rockefeller

"We are grateful to the Washington Post, The New York Times, Time Magazine and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subjected to the lights of publicity during those years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supranational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries." - David Rockefeller, Bilderberg Meeting, June 1991 Baden, Germany

"In the next century, nations as we know it will be obsolete; all states will recognize a single, global authority. National sovereignty wasn't such a great idea after all."- Strobe Talbot, President Clinton's Deputy Secretary of State, Time Magazine, July 20th, l992

"I believe that if the people of this nation fully understood what Congress has done to them over the last 49 years, they would move on Washington; they would not wait for an election....It adds up to a preconceived plan to destroy the economic and social independence of the United States!"- George W. Malone, U.S. Senator (Nevada), speaking before Congress, 1957

"The Trilateral Commission is intended to be the vehicle for multinational consolidation of the commercial and banking interests by seizing control of the political government of the United States. The Trilateral Commission represents a skillful, coordinated effort to seize control and consolidate the four centers of power--Political, Monetary, Intellectual, and Ecclesiastical." - U.S. Senator Barry Goldwater, his book "No Apologies", 1964

"We are not going to achieve a new world order without paying for it in blood as well as in words and money." - Arthur Schlesinger, Jr., in Foreign Affairs (July/August 1995)

"No one will enter the New World Order unless he or she will make a pledge to worship Lucifer. No one will enter the New Age unless he will take a Luciferian Initiation." - David Spangler, Director of Planetary Initiative, United Nations

"The world can therefore seize the opportunity [Persian Gulf crisis] to fulfill the long-held promise of a New World Order where diverse nations are drawn together in common cause to achieve the universal aspirations of mankind." - George Herbert Walker Bush

. "We shall have world government whether or not you like it, by conquest or consent." James Warburg, Architect of the Federal Reserve, Council on Foreign Relations (CFR) member to The Senate Foreign Relations Committee on February 17th, l950

"The UN is but a long-range, international banking apparatus clearly set up for financial and economic profit by a small group of powerful One-World revolutionaries, hungry for profit and power. - Curtis Dall, FDR's son-in-law as quoted in his book, My Exploited Father-in-Law

"The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes." - Felix Frankfurter, Supreme Court Justice, 1952

"The Council on Foreign Relations is "the establishment." Not only does it have influence and power in key decision-making positions at the highest levels of government to apply pressure from above, but it also announces and uses individuals and groups to bring pressure from below, to justify the high level decisions for converting the U.S. from a sovereign Constitutional Republic into a servile member state of a one-world dictatorship." - Former Congressman John Rarick 1971

"The New World Order will have to be built from the bottom up rather than from the top down...but in the end run around national sovereignty, eroding it piece by piece will accomplish much more than the old fashioned frontal assault." - Richard Gardner, CFR member, writing in the April l974 issue of the CFR's journal, Foreign Affairs.

"The most powerful clique in these (CFR) groups have one objective in common: they want to bring about the surrender of the sovereignty and the national independence of the U.S. They want to end national boundaries and racial and ethnic loyalties supposedly to increase business and ensure world peace. What they strive for would inevitably lead to dictatorship and loss of freedoms by the people. The CFR was founded for "the purpose of promoting disarmament and submergence of U.S. sovereignty and national independence into an all-powerful one-world government." - Harpers, l958

"The term Internationalism has been popularized in recent years to cover an interlocking financial, political, and economic world force for the purpose of establishing a World Government. Today Internationalism is heralded from pulpit and platform as a 'League of Nations' or a 'Federated Union' to which the United States must surrender a definite part of its National Sovereignty. The World Government plan is being advocated under such alluring names as the 'New International Order,' 'The New World Order,' 'World Union Now,' 'World Commonwealth of Nations,' 'World Community,' etc. All the terms have the same objective; however, the line of approach may be religious or political according to the taste or training of the individual." - Excerpt from A Memorial to be Addressed to the House of Bishops and the House of Clerical and Lay Deputies of the Protestant Episcopal Church in General Convention (October 1940)

. "The existing order is breaking down at a very rapid rate, and the main uncertainty is whether mankind can exert a positive role in shaping a new world order or is doomed to await collapse in a passive posture. We believe a new order will be born no later than early in the next century and that the death throes of the old and the birth pangs of the
new will be a testing time for the human species." - Richard A. Falk, in an article entitled "Toward a New World Order: Modest Methods and Drastic Visions," in the book, On the Creation of a Just World Order (1975)

"Further global progress is now possible only through a quest for universal consensus in the movement towards a new world order." - Mikhail Gorbachev, in an address at the United Nations (December 1988)

I could go on and on with the quotes, all statements made by people in positions of power, but I don't want to bore you to tears. The move to end our national sovereignty to establish a globalist one-world government is undeniably backed by an overwhelming mass of qualified, factual evidence.

It'll take me a while to type up that curious link I was talking about. I've got to go back and check all my notes.

Hang in there…

FedFixNix
23rd April 2008, 22:32
Is there an obvious link between the Fed, the phenomenon known as "channeling" as discussed in the above posts, Nazi Germany, UFOs, the New World Order and the New Age religion that has so mysteriously come on the scene and is influencing millions in every country of the world today?

Yes, there is indeed a link, and that link is truly curious beyond belief…

... It'll take me a while to type up that curious link I was talking about. I've got to go back and check all my notes.

Hang in there…

Hi Kelly, I'd be curious to see how many people are actually still following all of this. You are a prolific writer and researcher.

But your connection of the dots is remarkably accurate. All that you wrote about and the links all tie together this thread about "market manipulation" that started this "great gold sell-ff caper" thread.

The gold and money monopolists are all part and parcel of this great drama that is unfolding to a surprise ending that is in store for us all. It was written in prophesies long ago, although we only have some sketchy remnants of prophetic visions they had no words or symbols to adequately describe.

The were/are being guided and helped along by a group of spiritual rebels who thought to assert their own pride, vanity and self-love above the love of god and humanity. The drama that has gone on for hundreds of centuries is in its final act.

The story is not too unlike the Star Wars drama, whereby those who start out good can be lost to the "dark side" and become lost and immersed in their own evil and error. The "dark lords" of the Sith were obsessed with accumulating power, and used any means to obtain and extend it.

So it is today, nearly 2000 years after the resurrection of Jesus.

I hope you understand that along with all the disinformation and smoke and mirrors of those who babble the "new age doublespeak" there are those who carry enlarged revelation about the unfolding brotherhood of mankind, and the realization of the fatherhood of God, the universal creator.

Darth D'Evil can only influence those who are not aware of their faith-kinship to our creator. The agents of Lucifer and Satan are powerless before the shield of the spirit of truth.

What we are seeing unfold is the end result of the rebellion against the rule of god in the hearts and minds of men, and the drama is being witnessed by more universe citizens among the far-flung stars that the human mind can ever imagine. The things that are happening here on this small planet will be recounted throughout the ages, and will stand as an eternal lesson against willful rebellion against the universal laws of creation.

These are times that will try men's souls. Many will be found wanting, but many will shine as beacons in the darkness.

Now that you and some others among us have connected the dots and confirmed our nagging suspicions... now what?

We still have to each do our thing, whatever that is. We have to survive, and even thrive. We must live each day as it comes, and give thanks for our time we have here.

This is, after all, only the beginning. :)

Kelly
24th April 2008, 10:01
In the book, "Secret Societies" by the German author, Jan van Hilsing, (pen name) he writes extensively about the German secret societies that influenced the Nazi rise to power and states…

"In 1917 the occultist Baron Rudolf Von Sebottendorf; the Gurdjeff disciple, Karl Haushofer; the ace pilot, Lothar Waiz; Prelate Gernot of the secret "Societas Templi Marcioni" (The Inheritors of the Knights Templar) and Maria Orsic, a transcendental medium from Zagreb met in Vienna. They all had extensively studied the "Golden Dawn", its teachings, rituals and especially its knowledge about Asian secret lodges. Sebottendorf and Haushofer were experienced travelers of India and Tibet and much influenced by the teachings and myths of those places. During the First World War Karl Haushofer had made contacts with one of the most influential secret societies of Asia, the Tibetan Yellow Hats" (dGe-lugs-pa). This sect was formed in 1409 by the Buddhist reformer Tsong-kha-pa. Haushofer was initiated and swore to commit suicide should his mission fail. The contacts between Haushofer and the yellow Hats" led in the Twenties to the formation of Tibetan colonies in Germany."(ibid. page 167)

This is the first instance that I know of which records a connection between the Tibetan Buddhist Yellow Hat Sect to which the Dali Lama belongs, and the German occult groups that ultimately gave rise to Nazi, Germany. It is well known that in 1938, the occultist Nazi leader Himmler also sent a team of SS scientists led by the young naturalist, Ernst Schäfer on a mystical expedition to Tibet. Their mission was to seek the origins of the Aryan race. But it is that first and rarely mentioned German mission to Tibet in 1917 that ultimately resulted in a Tibetan colony being set up in Germany though little is known about the agreements that were made in that cultural exchange. Never-the-less, on April 25, 1945, the Russian troops deployed to Germany were puzzled to find in a Berlin cellar the bodies of six Tibetans lying in a circle, the one lying in the center wore green gloves. It seemed they had committed group suicide. On May 2, 1945, after the Russians had entered Berlin more than 1,000 bodies were found who definitely came from the Himalayan region and had fought along with the Germans.

What in the world were the Tibetans doing there, thousands of miles from their country and in German uniforms no less?

The internet is just full of articles about the Nazi beliefs in the Aryan race, the hollow earth theory, and the mystical cities of Shambala and Agartha. There are thousands of sites you can search for that information, so I see no reason to write about those things. Besides, as the evidence unfolds I suspect that one of the primary reasons the Germans invited a group of Tibetans from the Yellow Hat Sect to come live with them was based far more in their interest in science and technology than it was a belief in Asian mysticism and occultism. After all, in 1917 when that first German expedition to Tibet occurred, Germany was still involved in WWI; a war that was being fought on many fronts throughout Europe. The mysticism of the Bavarian Illuminati groups and Blavatsky's followers was based primarily in Asian Hinduism and Buddhism. The Germans undoubtedly would have been interested in possessing some of the ancient technologies so prevalent in the ancient Vedic records.

Tibetan Buddhism is an offshoot of Indian Hinduism. Both religions share many of the same gods and they inevitably share precisely the same ancient history. In antiquity, India was not only a much larger country that included Tibet, much of Mongolia, Afghanistan and Pakistan; it was one of the most powerful and advanced nations on earth. Just about everyone has heard of the supposed advanced technologies of Atlantis, but Atlantis remains mythological primarily because aside from Plato's description of that nation, to date no archaeological records from Atlantis have been found.

This is not the case with ancient India. In fact India and present day Tibet have preserved what appear to be the oldest historical records found yet on the face of the earth. And those records are positively brimming with fantastic tales of extraordinary weapons, the ability to confuse and confound the mind of the enemy and most of all, those histories describe the flying machines called "Vimanas" that are, for all intents and purposes, one and the same as the UFOs discussed in today's world-wide phenomenon. There is no indication in the texts that those Vimanas were built by little gray aliens from Zeti Reticuli or planet X. Vimanas were evidently built by men.

In the ancient Indian text titled the Yantra Sarvasa, said to have been written by the sage, Maharshi Bhardwaj, the section titled Vainmankika Prakarana had eight full chapters dealing entirely with aeronautics. David Hatcher Childress, author of "Technology of the Gods", writes…

"In it Bhardwaj describes Vimana, or aerial craft, as being of three classes; (1)those that can travel from place to place; (2) those that travel from one country to another; and (3) those that travel between planets. Of special concern among these were the military planes whose functions were delineated in some very considerable detail and which read today like something clean out of science fiction. For instance they had to be impregnable, unbreakable, non-combustible and indestructible capable of coming to a dead stop in the twinkling of an eye; invisible to enemies; capable of listening to the conversations and sounds in hostile planes; technically proficient to see and record things, persons, incidents and situations going on inside enemy planes; know at every stage the direction of movement of other aircraft in the vicinity; capable of rendering the enemy crew into a state of suspended animation, intellectual torpor or complete loss of consciousness, capable of destruction; manned by pilots and co-travelers who could adapt in accordance with the climate in which they moved; temperature regulated inside; constructed of very light and heat absorbing metals; provided with mechanisms that could enlarge or reduce images and enhance or diminish sounds."

Here is a great online article describing the Vimana texts written by the famous author, David Hatcher Childress…

http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc173.htm

I have a copy of the various Vimana texts and they are indeed quite amazing, never-the-less though those texts describe Vimanas perfectly and to some extent even give details on how to build one, there are only hints in those texts about what made them run. You couldn't build a working Vimana based on those texts because the information on their propulsion system is anything but complete.

That being said, I am personally convinced that India has only published a fraction of their texts for public consumption. And, I am equally convinced based on many long years of study that the Yellow Hat Sect of Tibetan Buddhism had access to many, many ancient texts that have never been published, and I suspect those texts are precisely what the Germans were after when they sent a team to Tibet in 1917. I have no idea what took place between Germany and the Tibetans to induce members of the Yellow Hats to accompany the explorers back to Germany, but obviously, a significant number of Tibetans ended up in Germany because their dead bodies were found by the Russians towards the end of WWII.

And we absolutely know that those Tibetans had to have had far more detailed information about building Vimanas.

How do we know that? My skeptical friend DaveK has said, "Show me a picture," so I will show you several….

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHl4iQBdcrU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZoWSdHIdoo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdohZz4xFK8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t85lY3IZDT4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=by3Q2jzeJKY


Now do you folks understand why the German banking families that own the Fed poured billions of dollars into Germany after WWI? And now do you understand why at the end of WWII America brought 700 top level Nazi scientists to America under Project Paperclip? Vimana technology and UFOs are truly one and the same.

'Tis a very interesting tale indeed, is it not?

And doesn't it truly make you wonder about all those New Age people who are channeling for "The Nine" that sound suspiciously like the "Secret Society of the Nine Unknown Men" commissioned by the ancient Indian Emperor Ashoka? (See the article link posted above by Childress)You must understand the Vedic Aryan mindset. "The Society of the Nine" would still be in existence today because like the Dali Lama of Tibet, Tibetans believe that those nine men would continue to reincarnate. You must also understand that the ancient Vedic Aryan clan of Anu colonized Sumer where they became known as "the Anunnaki" and in turn, Sumer colonized ancient Egypt where "the Nine" quite likely became known as the Egyptian Ennead.

We live in truly are strange times, my friends…

Kelly
24th April 2008, 17:34
Timeline Review:

1913- Federal Reserve Act (Glass-Owen) passed in stealth

1914- WWI begins in Europe

1917- Germany sends a group of four explorers to Tibet, and based on the knowledge possessed by various occult groups in Germany about ancient Aryan Vedic texts, brings back Tibetans and presumably still unpublished texts to assist them in their pursuit of advanced technologies. A Tibetan Yellow Hat community is established in Germany.

1919- WWI ends

1920- Germany falls into the hands of the German International Banking families, one and the same with the same families that owned the newly formed Federal Reserve.

1920-1937- The International Banking Cartel, The Federal Reserve and American industrialists secretly pumped billions of dollars into Germany so they can begin developing the advanced technologies of flying disks and nuclear technologies apparently based on their study of ancient Vedic texts presumably being translated by the people from the Yellow Hat Sect.

1929 - The beginning of the Great Depression in the United States is associated with the Fed manipulated stock market crash on October 29, 1929, known as Black Tuesday. The depression had devastating effects in both the industrialized countries and those which exported raw materials. International trade declined sharply, as did personal incomes, tax revenues, prices, and profits. Cities all around the world were hit hard. The majority of countries set up relief programs, and most underwent some sort of political upheaval, pushing them to the left or right. In many states, the desperate citizens turned toward nationalist demagogues like Adolf Hitler and António de Oliveira Salazar, setting the stage for World War II in 1939. It is perhaps relevant to point out that the German Banking families who now "owned Germany lock stock and barrel," according to McFadden, were the same banking families that owned the Fed. So while the German people were hauling wheelbarrows full of money to the market just to pay for a loaf of bread, the very same bankers who were responsible for creating the Great Depression in America were also responsible for the horrible depression that hit Germany. Hitler would have never risen to power had the depression created by the international bankers not destroyed Germany's economy.

1931- Louis McFadden, Chairman of the House Banking and Currency Committee, testifies to the Senate stating that the Federal Reserve had pumped 30 billion dollars into Germany since WWI. McFadden's understandably angry statement is made in 1931, during the height of the Great Depression and just eight years before Germany invaded Poland.

"After WWI, Germany fell into the hands of the German International Bankers. Those bankers bought her and they now own her, lock, stock and barrel. They purchased her industries, they have mortgages on her soil, they control her production; they control all her public utilities. The International German Bankers have subsidized the present government of Germany and they have also supplied every dollar of the money Adolf Hitler has used in his lavish campaign to build up a threat to the government of Bruening. When Bruening fails to obey the orders of the German International Bankers, Hitler is brought forth to scare the Germans into submission. Through the Federal Reserve Board over thirty billions of dollars was pumped into Germany…You have all heard of the spending that has taken place in Germany…modernistic dwellings, her great planetariums, her gymnasiums, her swimming pools, her fine public highways, her perfect factories….All this was done with our money. All this was given to Germany through the Federal Reserve Board. The Federal Reserve Board has pumped so many billions of dollars into Germany that they dare not name the total."

1937 – WWII first breaks out when Japan invades China.

1938 – The famous Nazi occult leader, Himmler, sends another German expedition to Tibet, led by Schafer. Though the current view of popular history is that they were "only looking for their Aryan roots," based on recent evidence, a more logical reason for that expedition is that they went in search of other ancient texts which may have allowed the Germans to finish producing both flying disks and nuclear bombs. (Germany was but weeks away from producing a deployable nuclear bomb at the end of WWII. The Allies literally won the war by the skin of their teeth.)

1939 - WWII breaks out in Europe. The private banks that owned the Fed and high ranking American industrialists appear to have been pumping money into both sides of the conflict throughout the war, it was Machiavellian beyond belief.

1945 – Towards the end of the war, Russian troops deployed to Germany discover 1000 dead Yellow Hat Tibetans and possibly people from other Indian-Tibetan Aryan Asian sects in Berlin.

1945 – WWII ends.

1946 – Germany is looted by both Russians and Americans looking for information on Nazi technologies. Project Paper Clip begins. Seven hundred top-level Nazi scientists (some say the number was closer to 1600) are brought to America and the remainder of the scientists go to Russia. Other Nazi scientists supposedly escaped to South America. To date, no one really knows what happened to their UFOs.

1946 – The Cold War with Russia begins.

1947 – July 20th, 1947, the Roswell UFO crash happens, heralding in the modern UFO era in America. Just twenty days later, President Truman initiates the CIA act, giving that organization a complete carte blanche, accountable to no one, and apparently most of the German scientists brought in from Project Paperclip were initially funneled into that organization, and from there into various top secret projects undertaken by the CIA and military.

1958 – July 29th, NASA is formed. More Nazi scientists get funneled into NASA

Conclusion:

As FedFixNix has stated in another thread, "Private Monopoly Money and Resource Control by an elitist cabal of international bankers is the root, bottom-line cause of the money and economics problems of our entire world."

However in my view, money and economic problems are but a part of the problems which that elitist cabal of international bankers are responsible for. I think these people belong in prison.

We need to get rid of the Federal Reserve. We need to get rid of the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank. There is no fixing it. It's too corrupt.

Then we need to face what has happened and clean house in the Government beginning with the CIA and all Black Budget programs related to the CIA and Military.

We should also get rid of a significant number of the Presidential Executive Orders that have been written by the last few administrations.

And we need to disband the CFR and all related groups, and COMPLETELY discredit them in the public's eye, because until that happens anybody who gets elected and goes to Washington DC, regardless of whether they are elected to the House of Representatives, the Senate, or the Presidency is going to find themselves surrounded by the same cabal of Elitists who will go right on manipulating congress and all legislation until the people of this country have the balls to stand up united as one and say, "ENOUGH!"

The Fed and their buddies appear to have financed the Nazi UFO cult, and over the years they have poured billions if not trillions into that curious little project while they spread nothing but disinformation from one end of this world to the other about "alien visitors."

Tens of thousands of people from my generation spent their entire lives trying to track down the truth about UFOs.

And if you think I am pissed off about what the Fed has done to our economy and our hard earned money, you don't even want to know how pissed off I am about the years of my life those pricks wasted because of all the time I spent researching this while running into nothing but a virtual mountain of more false leads and planted disinformation.

I am REALLY pissed off about that.

And I want you folks to THINK about what the Fed did! They not only supported Nazi Germany's UFO technology with the money they swindled out of us Americans, those pricks lied their asses off about what they did to the public and ultimately perpetuated one of the biggest and nastiest hoaxes to cover up their worthless butts this world has ever seen.

Come on! Lets all say it together! One…Two…Three….

"ENOUGH!!!!"

http://www.eyepod.org/Nazi-Disc-Photos.html

Kelly
25th April 2008, 10:18
"What will the social order of the future be like? Comrade, I will tell you. There will be a class of overlords, after them the rank and file of the party members in hierarchical order, and then the great mass of anonymous followers, servants and workers in perpetuity, and beneath them again all the conquered foreign races, the modern slaves. And over and above all these will reign a new and exalted nobility of whom I cannot speak. But of all these plans the militant members will know nothing. The new man is living amongst us now! He is here. Isn't that enough for you? I will tell you a secret. I have seen the new man. He is intrepid and cruel. I was afraid of him." ~ Adolf Hitler quoted from "Hitler Speaks" by Hermann Rauschning.

I wonder if Hitler was talking about the International Bankers that financed his rise?