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pbmaxb
7th April 2008, 11:15
will the price ever go up independent of the oil prices? it would seem as though it came down stronger then oil and im wondering when it will catch back up.

chux03
8th April 2008, 16:52
Report on Bakken oil potential expected

By JAMES MacPHERSON


BISMARCK, N.D.

A long-awaited federal report on oil that could be recovered in parts of North Dakota, Montana and two Canadian provinces is to be released this week.

The Bakken shale formation encompasses some 25,000 square miles in North Dakota, Montana, Saskatchewan and Manitoba. About two-thirds of the acreage is in western North Dakota, where the oil is trapped in a thin layer of dense rock nearly two miles beneath the surface.

Ron Ness, president of the North Dakota Petroleum Council, said the number of wells in the Bakken increased from about 300 in 2006 to 457 at the end of last year. Bismarck-based MDU Resources Group Inc. announced its first venture into the Bakken this week.

The study being released Thursday by the U.S. Geological Survey was done at the request of Sen. Byron Dorgan, D-N.D., over the past 18 months.

"Technology continues to advance," Dorgan said Monday. "This is not going to be a red light or green light about oil development in the Bakken -- clearly there already is a big green light there. But I think the question is pretty clear: How much of that oil is recoverable using today's technology?"

In 1995, the Geological Survey estimated that using technology available at that time, 151 million barrels of oil could be recovered in the Bakken, said Brenda Pierce, a geologist and program coordinator for the agency's energy resources program.

Pierce said she would not disclose the study's findings until Thursday. Asked whether the estimate would be an increase from the 1995 figure, she said, "There is industry in there and having success. There's your answer."

Julie LeFever, a geologist with the state Geological Survey in Grand Forks, has been studying the Bakken for more than two decades. She calls it an "unconventional resource."

The oil is trapped in microscopic pores of rock, and to capture it, most companies "fracture stimulate" horizontal wells by forcing pressurized fluid and sand to break pores in the rock and prop them open to recover oil.

"It's not something you would see in most oil formations," LeFever said. With technology, she said, "the success rates are going up, but we're not all the way there yet."

She said estimates of the total amount of oil in the Bakken Formation have varied wildly over the years, from 10 billion barrels to 500 billion barrels. The higher estimate was done by Leigh Price, a USGS geologist who died in 2000 before his study was published.

Dorgan urged the agency to review Price's work part of a national inventory of the nation's oil resources.

Pierce, of the USGS, said her agency used raw data from Price's study, but also relied on agency experts and information from oil companies drilling in the Bakken.

The study does not estimate how much oil may be in the formation -- only what the agency believes can be recovered using current technology.

Kelly
8th April 2008, 20:22
Thanks Chux! So what's the big picture here? Does "peak oil" just mean that they know the rest of it is going to be harder to get at so they are driving the prices up and squeezing every drop of blood they can out of us? Then when prices double what they are now, they'll go in and drill for the rest?

Hey, I've been looking at the profits posted by the oil companies! Like I've been pointing out in other threads, this is not a free market economy. There is no such thing as a free market anymore. The laws of supply and demand are illusions because the supply is being openly manipulated.

I think I'm gonna go pour myself a drink...

chux03
8th April 2008, 20:58
You're welcome Kelly!!

I also heard today that Jim Rogers (the commodities guru) sees doom and gloom for the USA because they (us) need either a "major event or a major discovery" to pull us up and out of our present problem(s) and he stated he has seen NO MAJOR PROJECT that could do the job. I'm wondering...does he know about this??
Also, there's a major oil compasny that's going to build a pipeline to bring a bunch of natural gas up in Alaska down "to the market" wherever that seems to be. You may want to Google that...
But back to the oil field. Even if it's at the low end of the scale and has ONLY 10 BILLION BARRELS, that's a sizeable discovery right within our borders. With the NIMBY attitude prevailant from Vancouver Canada to San Diego California and their attitude about looking out and seeing either a WIND DRIVEN TURBINE, an oil derrick pumping crude or anything else that may "spoil their view" I have little faith that we'll wind up doing the right thing in regards to developing this sizeable asset. I predict $200 a barrel oil before the environmentalists simply fade away or at least go into hiding. Don't get me wrong....I drive a high mileage diesel truck, my home's power is generated by a hydro elctric dam right up the road, I burn clean, renewable wood pellets for heating my home, I have friends who are LOGGERS whom I consider to be and are MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY in their outlook from working in the woods than the Earth Firsters (or similar beings) could ever hope, I feed the birds and on and on. The point being even though I'm a free market Libertarian (from Lew Rockwell's website: anti-war, anti-state and pro market, THAT accurately describes me) I'm a LOT GREENER in everyday life than a lot of "real enviros" can ever hope to be. BUT....I would rather look out of my big picture window and see a wind farm or an oil well working away, which SURELY these people would consider a blight from Hell.
I wonder at what price for a barrel of oil that evil, simplistic, environmental view from these left wing whackos would change to something similar to mine?? Or is it going to be bankruptcy and the end of the country first?? But even more than that...why isn't this FRONT PAGE NEWS on every newspaper and TV news broadcast in the country? Well...maybe after the news release on how much is there on Thursday that may change. BILLIONS OF BARRELS OF OIL and it hardly merits a mention in what passes as the main stream media*. AMAAAAAZING.....

*While I dislike Rush Limbaugh I do like his description of our media when he calls it (and rightly so) THE DRIVE-BY MEDIA.

prahudka
8th April 2008, 21:44
I predict $200 a barrel oil before the environmentalists simply fade away or at least go into hiding. Don't get me wrong....I drive a high mileage diesel truck, my home's power is generated by a hydro elctric dam right up the road, I burn clean, renewable wood pellets for heating my home, I have friends who are LOGGERS whom I consider to be and are MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY in their outlook from working in the woods than the Earth Firsters (or similar beings) could ever hope, I feed the birds and on and on. The point being even though I'm a free market Libertarian (from Lew Rockwell's website: anti-war, anti-state and pro market, THAT accurately describes me) I'm a LOT GREENER in everyday life than a lot of "real enviros" can ever hope to be. .

Hmmm. People dying in the streets by the dozens due to exposure. Could that be a pollution problem?

Watch the enviros dump there garbage in your woods when they can't afford to go the dump anymore.

You need energy to dispose of garbage and create an economy capable of doing that work.

Kelly
9th April 2008, 00:07
I have friends who are LOGGERS whom I consider to be and are MORE ENVIRONMENTALLY FRIENDLY in their outlook from working in the woods than the Earth Firsters (or similar beings) could ever hope,

Right on, Chux! You live one state up from me, we are practically neighbors and I sure know what you mean. Loggers care. We are required by law to plant 10 trees for every tree that is cut. But when people drive by in a car and look at a clear cut, no one can see all those baby trees growing, and in a few years time they'll all be reaching for the sky, sucking up CO2 and making oxygen like crazy. Those little trees will be helping the earth, but they won't get the sunshine they need to grow unless they are planted in a clear cut. You simply can't selectively harvest and expect to reforest. There is too much shade, but you can't tell that to the environmentalists. They'd rather the whole woods was nothing but old trees, and old trees don't put out much oxygen or eat much CO2 once they are done growing.

I consider myself an environmentalist too, but when I look at all those well-funded environmental movements, I don't trust them anymore, and I sure don't trust the money behind them. Not one whit. If the environmentalist groups are trying to prevent us from finding the oil (and I do believe the oil is there) perhaps they'd all like to volunteer pulling us all around in rickshaws, because it's going to come to that if we are not allowed to manage the resources that we have. I'd rather see the wind turbines too, but the "Friends of the Gorge" group (that's the Columbia River Gorge, folks, and it is seriously WINDY there) sitting up there in their nice, big, fancy homes don't want their view spoiled. So maybe they'd like to pay my electricity bill increase? It was a whopper this time.


Watch the enviros dump there garbage in your woods when they can't afford to go the dump anymore.

Prahudka, did you see all the tons of garbage all the people left behind when they attended the big "Earth First" concerts a while back? The irony of it all would have been funny if it wasn't so terribly sad and misguided. Those people flew in their jets or drove their cars hundreds of miles to attend a concert that blamed global warming on CO2 emmisions from fossil fuels. Apparently they just don't "get it." It doesn't seem to register with them. It's all just so spectacularly crazy and insane.

The big oil companies know the oil is there, and they know where it is. They are just going through the oil in the Middle East first so that by the time they get to what is here, the prices will be much, much higher.

I look forward to the day when we discover cold fusion or zero point energy. I think we should be spending much more money on research in that direction, but it would essentially be a dirt cheap form of energy and hard to make a lot of money on so they are not putting the money into the research.

DaveK
9th April 2008, 12:10
I look forward to the day when we discover cold fusion or zero point energy. I think we should be spending much more money on research in that direction, but it would essentially be a dirt cheap form of energy and hard to make a lot of money on so they are not putting the money into the research.

If you have not seen them yet you might enjoy the videos on IEC and focus fusion that were presented at Google by Bussard and Lerner, respectively.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1518007279479871760

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1996321846673788606

Kelly
9th April 2008, 18:02
Thanks Dave. I'll watch both of those videos as they both look good and detailed. I am so in hopes that some of these new energy programs can get off the ground. There is a guy in Europe who has also developed thin solar sheeting; stuff you could roof a house with or use on an outside south wall. And it's inexpensive compared to solar panels. It would be nice to see something that could bring the price of active solar down so that it was more affordable. The last I read he was looking for funding so he could start manufacturing his product, but that's where a lot of these good ideas get shot down. Unfortunately, the funding usually gets withheld from any new energy project that seems to threaten the status quo. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him. It looked like he had a very good product.

chux03
10th April 2008, 03:21
Thanks Dave. I'll watch both of those videos as they both look good and detailed. I am so in hopes that some of these new energy programs can get off the ground. There is a guy in Europe who has also developed thin solar sheeting; stuff you could roof a house with or use on an outside south wall. And it's inexpensive compared to solar panels. It would be nice to see something that could bring the price of active solar down so that it was more affordable. The last I read he was looking for funding so he could start manufacturing his product, but that's where a lot of these good ideas get shot down. Unfortunately, the funding usually gets withheld from any new energy project that seems to threaten the status quo. But I'm keeping my fingers crossed for him. It looked like he had a very good product.

What's the name of this stuff??

Kelly
10th April 2008, 11:18
Here ya go, Chux…

http://earth2tech.com/2007/12/19/faq-thin-film-solar/

http://www.siliconsolar.com/solar-panels.php

http://www.powerfilmsolar.com/

http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/12/flexible_ultra-.php

Somebody else is also working on a solar paint. Too cool, huh?

DaveK
10th April 2008, 17:55
It would be nice to see something that could bring the price of active solar down so that it was more affordable.

Nanosolar is already shipping thin-film panels that calculate out to cost less than coal-based power:

http://gristmill.grist.org/story/2007/12/23/2919/8613

Market price for these will probably be quite a bit higher for a long time though, simply because manufacturing capacity is far below demand.

chux03
13th April 2008, 20:48
Janell Cole, The Jamestown Sun

Published Thursday, April 10, 2008

BISMARCK—The Bakken Formation in North Dakota and Montana have 3 billion to 4.3 billion barrels of recoverable oil, a federal report released today says.

“This is the largest oil accumulation in the lower 48,” said U.S. Geological Survey scientist Brenda Pierce.

The number is 25 times more than the amount of recoverable oil that the U.S. Geological Survey’s 1995 estimate reported, but far less than the 400 to 500 billion barrels of oil estimated by a now-deceased USGS scientist.

chux03
13th April 2008, 20:53
And then multiply that number by 1/3 and that number represents something closer to the truth. Government estimates??? Please!! Let's let the free market decide if there's enough oil there to make the venture profitable...

Daveman
15th April 2008, 21:49
What about the oil in the sands up in Canada? Isn't there suppose to be more oil up there than all of saudi arabia, or mideast combined?

At least that's what I've been hearing the cheerleaders say the past 10 years now... are we any closer to being able to extract the oil out of the sands yet?

beach miner
16th April 2008, 00:37
Howdy All: The oil up here on the North Slope is about 1/2 to 2/3's gone. We've been pumping it out of the ground since late 70's. The life of the field has been extended by pumping Natural Gas down into the resovoir; it's called Reinjection. They admit to about 34 trillion cubic feet of Natural Gas, some say more like 100's of Trillion cubic feet. There has been a lot of wrangling going on for about 30 years about a gas line. The Alberta Tar Sands need heat to extract the oil. It looks like the price of a barrel of oil is high enough to warrent the building of the Gasline from the North Slope to Alberta to work the Tar Sands, the excess would then be sent via another gasline to Chicago and the other points in the Midwest.

If the Enviornmentalist were really true to their cause, the would be marching in Iowa, chanting NO CORN FOR OIL.

There is a lot more Natural Gas than oil, NO ONE SHOULD BE HEATING THEIR HOME WITH OIL, it is too valuable a resource to just be burned up for heating purposes.

See Ya At The Top

HAG2:8
16th April 2008, 03:07
You may be interested to read the Global Resource Corporation's web site.
www.globalresourcecorp.com
Interesting company that may be about to start sucking a lot of previously innaccessible oil out of the ground in the US, and also recover oil from tyres etc..but I have no idea from here in Australia which exchange it's listed on, and how to invest.

Gino
16th April 2008, 04:39
Here's something I hadn't thought too much about until reading some resource analysis this evening, but demand in resources ain't going to drop because of a slowing US economy. The failing US economy will only spur on the developing economies of China, India, Russia and the mid-east while their currencies bath in the relative strength of a weaker US$. They will have a greater purchasing power than the competition and will use it.

The price of oil is not coming down any time soon my friends, and is going to drive grass-roots inflation through the roof. I don't mean the hyperbole of over-night inter-bank lending rates, or the nonsense that is the Consumer Price Index (in Australia), I mean real hip pocket stuff for the work-a-day people on the street.

I am personally shocked at the price I had to pay for diesel today. I only have to fill up once a month and in February I was paying A$1.45/litre and today I had to pay A$1.65/litre. That's nearly a 14% increase in 2 months, or 83% annualised! And that's little ol' me on the street this afternoon, no mathematical gymnastics involved.

So immediately I realise I need more cash flow to operate profitably while cutting my consumption. My price has to go up, hell everyone's price has to go up. On top of impacts of the US$1 trillion loss in the collateralised debt scam, the drying up of credit, the losses in the stock market, the penny is soon to drop with the average person.

Inflation is going to hit this year with a vengeance and discretionary spending is going to dry up in established, open market economies. . . . there you go, the wife just told me organic Lamb Chops (used to be a favorite) were A$40 / kg today!

Well, bon appetite, its time to eat.

DaveK
16th April 2008, 15:06
What about the oil in the sands up in Canada? Isn't there suppose to be more oil up there than all of saudi arabia, or mideast combined?

At least that's what I've been hearing the cheerleaders say the past 10 years now... are we any closer to being able to extract the oil out of the sands yet?

It doesn't matter how much is in the ground if you can't get it out cheaply and quickly. It's like having a billion ounces of silver in a vault from which you can extract one ounce per day at a cost of $7 each. You're rich.. sort of.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071012.IBREGULY12/TPStory/Business

Put EnergyBulletin.net and TheOilDrum.com into your RSS reader to keep up on oil and energy developments. And of course poke around both sites to catch up on past stories.

Kelly
16th April 2008, 17:03
The Alberta Tar Sands need heat to extract the oil.

There may be another answer besides heat. The Russians have the same problem with viscosity in their oil fields, and when they carried out their Phi-based pyramid experiments, they discovered the following...

Qualitative structure of oil changes
"A complex of pyramids was installed on an oil field. Within the next few days the viscosity of oil decreased by 30%, which correspondingly led to the increased oil production. Gradually, the structure of oil began to change, i.e. amounts of tars, paraffin, etc in oil decreased. Fractional structure of oil has shifted towards the light fractions (Moscow Academy of Oil and Gas)."
http://www.pyramidoflife.com/eng/tests_experiments.html#6

No one really understands why it happens, (or at least I don't) but the phi pyramids have been observed to have a radical effect on liquids.

Even at –40° C regular water does not freeze inside the Pyramid
"Several plastic bottles with regular water were placed inside the Pyramid and their state was observed within a period of three winter months. The water was not freezing and had all the properties of a liquid during this whole period. The lowest air temperature inside the Pyramid was –40°C. Measuring water temperature inside the bottles showed that it was the same as the temperature of the air (i.e. the water was not freezing even when its temperature was –40°C).

However, it was noted during this research, that if a bottle of this water was shaken or hit, a crystallization process was beginning inside and the water was turning into ice within 3-20 seconds (depending on the degree of water super cooling)."

If viscosity is a problem in Alberta's oil fields, then the answer might be to experiment by building a phi pyramid over those fields. If the phi pyramids improved viscosity in the oil fields in Russia, they should work the same way in Canada too. If it works, it'd be a hell of a lot cheaper to plunk a pyramid over the fields to reduce tars, than trying to figure out another way to get the oil to pump.

You can read more about the Russian experiments here…

http://www.abo.ru/english.html
http://www.gizapyramid.com/russian/picture-tour1.htm
http://www.pyramids.ru/english.html
http://www.pyramidoflife.com/
http://www.pyramidoflife.com/eng/tests_experiments.html

I have been in communication over the years with a couple of the Russian physicists involved in these experiments. They are definitely for real, and those experiments were carried out under very well documented and rigorous scientific testing. I've got a lot of additional information in a PDF book, but I can't link you to it or copy it off for you either.

Anyway, one could conceivably test their claims by building a small Phi-pyramid model, and placing super viscous oil in a container within it to observe the effects. If the oil becomes more liquid, I'd say that'd be a pretty good sign that these things work, wouldn't you? It might help us be able to pump a whole lot of oil that is presently unavailable.

Here is another link that may interest those of you who are curious about the physics involved.

http://gizapyramid.com/DrV-article.htm