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Irons
5th April 2008, 07:43
Be careful out there people, with good prices and high demand for PM's there will be more and more of this.

http://goldismoney.info/forums/showthread.php?t=253860

Kelly
7th April 2008, 13:44
Thanks for posting this. I've been warning people to look out for fakes on ebay, and also warning they were likely to show up first coming from Asia. This is the very first proof I've seen that fakes are being minted. Be careful people, if the fakes are being made, I can promise you, they WILL be sold on ebay!

Kelly
7th April 2008, 14:10
Check this out too!

http://coins.about.com/od/worldcoins/ig/Chinese-Counterfeiting-Ring/?nl=1

silverbuggy
7th April 2008, 15:41
bastards! No wonder the world hates China (not only because of the terrible Tibet issue).

Gene Daniels
7th April 2008, 16:00
There is some historical evidence that Chinese "craftsmen" were copying European art 500 years ago! This is a deep issue with China, a part of their national ethos. It is only going to get worse.

Kelly
7th April 2008, 17:05
It's probably not that big an issue if you are buying coins from a reputable local dealer. But If you regularly case out e-bay for good deals on coins, you simply have to check out where the seller is located. Old Morgans, for instance, coming from anywhere in Asia is not really a very likely scenario. Why they would even have them in the first place sort of escapes the logic circuits. You've also got to watch out for the American dealers who would buy the fakes by the case from China and try to pass them off as real.

E-bay does have some really good deals on the real thing too, but if a fake anything is being made anywhere in the world, you can definately find it on e-bay.

I was really surprised at how good those fake Morgans looked in the second link. They've obviously got counterfeit coins down.

What a drag.

Daveman
7th April 2008, 18:01
I assume these "fake" silver coins are not made of silver? Why didn't the buyers just do the ring test on the coins before purchase? If they didn't even bother doing that when buying silver, then they almost asked to be cheated.

Kelly
7th April 2008, 18:26
It did look to me like the coins were actually being poured from silver. They seem to be faking coins with a high numismatic value over spot. There is no way I could tell from the information. I do know one thing though. About 75% of all our left over old circuit boards are shipped off to China where they are recycled, and many small rural villages make their livings doing this. So they may be recycling the silver from printed circuit boards and pouring it into fake coins with a high value.

I'm just guessing though. But from the looks of the way they were being manufactured, it looked more like something being done in the villages rather than in an urban manufacturing plant.

Daveman
7th April 2008, 20:48
That's not good, and I'm not refering to the fake coins.

I had thought part of the "shortage" in silver today is because many of the electrical appliances had consumed silver within them that basically cannot be recycled back into the supply pool.

If people are actually recycling the silver out of their old and throw away things, then the alleged silver shortage by virtually every bullish silver expert (Butler, Hommel) will not happen; silver consumed for commercial purposes before will simply be recycled back into the supply pool to meet demand again. Or go into fake coins.

Kelly
7th April 2008, 21:27
I had thought part of the "shortage" in silver today is because many of the electrical appliances had consumed silver within them that basically cannot be recycled back into the supply pool.


That's what I thought too until a couple of days ago when I ran across it in an article. I can't remember where, or I'd post it. They were talking about all the PCBs and heavy metals that were polluting the ground and water in the Chinese villages from all the circuit boards. The recycling is mostly in the small villages though, and they are not apparently using recycled silver in new electronics. These rural villagers depend upon silver and trade in it as currancy because they don't really have access to banks. I think the rural villagers (who are generally very poor) can't afford the spot price of silver now that the prices have risen, and that's why they are recycling it.

I don't think the recycling issue is a big thing in terms of the silver market. And unless those villagers had ways to refine that silver further, the silver they would be using would be an alloy, because that's what is used in board manufacturing. I don't know what the percentage is, but I don't think it's even 90% pure.

I wouldn't worry about village recycling affecting the spot price, at least not yet. The spot price would probably have to be a whole lot higher before recycled silver would enter mainstream manufacturing.

Kelly
7th April 2008, 22:56
Daveman, just so you don't worry unnecessarily about the recycling thing, the article I read said it was being done by little kids and older women. There was nothing industrial about it and it would be very labor intensive. I would guess there is no more than 3 grams of silver on any single circuit board. It'd be a whole lot of work for very little silver.

Daveman
8th April 2008, 00:27
Thanks Kel.