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chux03
1st April 2008, 15:56
If the following scenario comes fruition not only will your silver "go to the moon" so will gasoline and everything else. This is the doings of mad men and the biggest two currently reside in the Whitehouse. They should be warned of their imminent arrest should they proceed with this. I agree with this author completely. This is absolute lunacy...

Read on:


Another American War Crime in the Making

by Paul Craig Roberts

The US Congress, the US media, the American people, and the United Nations, are looking the other way as Cheney prepares his attack on Iran.

If only America had an independent media and an opposition party. If there were a shred of integrity left in American political life, perhaps a third act of naked aggression – a third war crime under the Nuremberg standard – by the Bush Regime could be prevented.

On March 30, the Russian News & Information Agency, Novosti, cited "a high-ranking security source: "The latest military intelligence data point to heightened US military preparations for both an air and ground operation against Iran."

According to Novosti, Russian Colonel General Leonid Ivashov said "that the Pentagon is planning to deliver a massive air strike on Iran’s military infrastructure in the near future."

The chief of Russia’s general staff, Yuri Baluyevsky, said last November that Russia was beefing up its military in response to US aggression, but that the Russian military is not "obliged to defend the world from the evil Americans."

On March 29, OpEdNews cited a report by the Saudi Arabian newspaper Okaz, which was picked up by the German news service, DPA. The Saudi newspaper reported on March 22, the day following Cheney’s visit with the kingdom’s rulers, that the Saudi Shura Council is preparing "national plans to deal with any sudden nuclear and radioactive hazards that may affect the kingdom following experts’ warnings of possible attacks on Iran’s Bushehr nuclear reactors."

And Admiral William "there will be no attack on Iran on my watch" Fallon has been removed as US chief of Central Command, thus clearing the way for Cheney’s planned attack on Iran.

The Iranians don’t seem to believe it, despite the dispatch of US nuclear submarines and another aircraft carrier attack group to the Persian Gulf. To counter any Iranian missiles launched in response to an attack, the US is deploying anti-missile defenses to protect US bases and Saudi oil fields.

Two massive failures by the American media, the Democratic Party, and the American people have paved the way for Cheney’s long-planned attack on Iran. One failure is the lack of skepticism about the US government’s explanation of 9/11. The other failure is the Democrats’ refusal to begin impeachment proceedings against President Bush for lying to the Congress, the American people, and the world and launching an invasion of Iraq based on deception and fabricated evidence.

If an American president can start a war exactly as Adolf Hitler did with pure lies and not be held accountable, he can get away with anything. And Bush and his evil regime have.

Hitler launched World War II with his invasion of Poland after staging a "Polish attack" on a German radio station. On the night of August 31, 1939, a group of Nazis disguised in Polish uniforms seized a radio station in Germany. Hitler announced that "last night Polish troops crossed the frontier and attacked Germany," a claim no more true than the Bush Regime’s claim that "Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction." Hitler’s lie failed, because his invasion of Poland, which began the next day allegedly in reprisal for the Polish attack, had obviously been planned for many months.

Iran is a beautiful and developed country. It is an ancient civilization. It has attacked no one. Iran is a signatory to the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty. Iran is permitted by the treaty to have a nuclear energy program. The Bush Regime’s case against Iran is based on the Bush Regime’s desire to deny Iran its rights under the treaty.

The International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors have repeatedly reported that they have found no evidence of an Iranian nuclear weapons program. Despite all the disinformation from US Gen. Petraeus and other Bush Regime military lackeys, Iran is not arming the Iraqis who are resisting the American occupation.

If Iran were arming insurgents, the insurgents would have two weapons that would neutralize the US advantage in the Iraqi conflict: missiles to knock down US helicopter gunships and rocket-propelled grenades that knock out American tanks. The insurgents do not have these weapons and must construct clumsy anti-tank weapons out of artillery shells. The insurgents are helpless against US air power and cannot mass forces to take on the American troops.

Indiscriminate American violence has reduced Iraq to rubble. The civilian infrastructure is essentially destroyed – electricity, water and sewer systems, medical care and schools. Depleted uranium is everywhere poisoning everyone, including US troops. There is no economy, and half or more of Iraqis are unemployed. Literally no Iraqi family has escaped an injury or a death as a consequence of the US invasion. Millions of Iraqis have become displaced persons. A developed country with a professional middle class has been destroyed because of lies told by the President and Vice President of the US. The Bush Regime’s lies are echoed by a neoconservative media, and have gone unchallenged by the opposition party and an indifferent American public.

Continues here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/roberts/roberts241.html

polcat
1st April 2008, 18:33
If Iran wants to get nuke and use it. Then we should take it out. Or should we just wait until they use it on us

SilverTrees
1st April 2008, 19:13
Polcat, I feel so sorry for you....

JesterJay
1st April 2008, 19:43
Why the hell don't you wait for a NUCLEAR 911. Then go blast 'em. It is always best to ignore your enemy until they get the upper hand and strike you first.
Note the sarcasm,
JesterJay
Such a load of crap: Always, Blame America first.
And another great reason to stop visiting this forum. When I first joined there was next to zero activity. I posted about 5 items with zero responses. After a few weeks people started discussing things. Recently a lot of what is posted is the DOOM and GLOOM anti-American crap that keeps me from watching the network news and tuning in solely to Fox.



Polcat, I feel so sorry for you....

elixer
1st April 2008, 19:44
Polcat must be the son of Cheney with his psycho babble. 'If there is a 0.1% chance that my neighbour might one day hit on my wife then it means I have to go next door now and blow his f%#@! head off.. aint I the smartest dude in the asylum..'

JesterJay
1st April 2008, 19:51
What if your neighbor has told you his is going to KILL your wife and kids???
What then?
That has already been PROMISED by those you defend,
JesterJay



Polcat must be the son of Cheney with his psycho babble. 'If there is a 0.1% chance that my neighbour might one day hit on my wife then it means I have to go next door now and blow his f%#@! head off.. aint I the smartest dude in the asylum..'

polcat
1st April 2008, 20:44
Don't feel sorry for me. If anything I feel sorry for you. For not being able to see that the leaders of Iran would love to cut your head off. You are nothing but an infidel to them.

elixer
1st April 2008, 21:47
You 'hang em high' Americans are just plain scary to the rest of the world. Just who is cruising up and down the Iranian coast with the carrier decks stacked with nucleur warheads while, now let me see, just how many Iranian warships are cruising the US coasts.. duh! Texan self defense?

JesterJay
1st April 2008, 21:57
And just where are you from that makes YOUR way of doing things better?
"Scary" is MOST of the Islamic world saying that they are pledged to KILL all Americans, women and children too.
I just want to be left alone and my government to stop giving away all my wealth to ungrateful whiners. Conspiracy theories notwithstanding.
If I don't protect ME no one will.
Or will you? Or perhaps France?
Yeah, I thought so.
Give the world 80% of their defense and foreign aid and get **** on in return.
Thanks- I feel good now- that should make me safe,
Jay
NOT jesting



You 'hang em high' Americans are just plain scary to the rest of the world. Just who is cruising up and down the Iranian coast with the carrier decks stacked with nucleur warheads while, now let me see, just how many Iranian warships are cruising the US coasts.. duh! Texan self defense?

Robin
1st April 2008, 22:03
I am not for war but it seems there's a problem with the Iran leader and if we don't do something soon there, we will probably have problems comming here before to long. I am taking Abmadinajads word for it. I've heard so may things about that man and its crazy.

http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=Zjg2MjgxZmVkNDkxOGZiN2RiMWNiZjUwYjhjOTMxZWU=

polcat
1st April 2008, 22:28
I agree Robin, If the leaders of Iran say they want to kill all of us infidel's. I think I should believe them. Or maybe I should just say there Joking. And forget about it.

chux03
1st April 2008, 22:42
I'm thinking that this one mistake could topple us off the edge and into the abyss. But the first thing you'd see would be the price of gasoline absolutely explode upwards in price. I would think you'd see it go up by over $1 before the bombs even finished dropping and then settle somewhere around $6 a gallon till Iran comes back online with their oil exports. You'll look back on these days of $3.50 gasoline as being "the good ol days" should the criminal in chief and his second in command get their way and attack Iran.
Don't get me wrong, I don't say that as an opposite of a conservative Republican because I'm NOT one of those either. I like Lew Rockwell's ( www.lewrockwell.com ) anti-state, anti-war, pro-market description of myself. I HAVE to laugh at some of the paradox's represented here...some here rail at the slightest hint of market manipulation but the same person seems to condone continued violence commited in our collective name in the Middle East. Not only that, but this one war/event has almost brought the U.S. dollar to being worth absolutely nothing, having lost 90% of it's value since the early 70's. YOU LIKE THAT?? We shouldn't be there, we shouldn't have ever gone there and we should pull out as soon as they can load the boats, imho. We can't afford this financially or ethically and NOTHING will get better in our own country till we leave Iraq, leave Iran untouched and start minding our own business and get back to what we are good at, which was/could be again, doing business with the world.
On the other hand, maybe we need to experience a total crash of our economy and currency, which would put an end to such foolishness as world dominion through military adventure-ism. If that happens, I predict the pullout from the Middle East to happen even faster than if Ron Paul should win the upcoming election in a few short months from now. Good riddence too...this should show anyone how despotic our government has become.

Daveman
1st April 2008, 22:48
Honestly, JesterJay, although I have always found your posts insightful and true regarding the silver market, I have to say that the U.S. is in the fault here as far as "reason" is concerned.

Iran has DONE (not said, because talk is cheap) nothing, not a thing, nada, zilch, zero, zip, that has transgressed international law or courtesy.

The U.S., on the other hand, has several aircraft carrier and nuclear attack submarines RIGHT OFF OF THE COAST of Iran.

And Iran is the "big bad wolf" that's bullying the innocent ******s (whoever) around?

If Iran were to send aircraft carriers (they don't have any) and nuclear attack submarines (they don't have any) cruising on the coasts of U.S., would they be so deserving of sympathey and support as the U.S. is at the moment?



What the hell kind of logic are people subscribing to these days? Poor little Americans with their aircraft carriers, bombers, fighter jets, and nuclear submarines parked on the coast of Iran is being bullied by big bad Iran?

WTF?

I guess people see what they want to see.

Robin
1st April 2008, 22:55
I agree Robin, If the leaders of Iran say they want to kill all of us infidel's. I think I should believe them. Or maybe I should just say there Joking. And forget about it.

If we were to have another 911 much bigger then the last one. I wonder how long it would take for our economy to go down hill all to gether?

Daveman
1st April 2008, 23:21
If we were to have another 911 much bigger then the last one. I wonder how long it would take for our economy to go down hill all to gether?

Hahahaha

If the Martians were to attack the U.S., I wonder how long it would take for our economy to go down hill all together AFTER THE GOVERNMENT SPEND ANOTHER 2 TRILLON USD ON THE WAR OF MARS.

Holidaysilver
1st April 2008, 23:23
Armchair Warriors should stick to video games.

Real people die in real wars. Sitting in your armchair huffing and puffing about what "We" ought to do is silly. If you are in no danger of being in harms way, it is easy to want a war.

We thought a lot about all the rich college Kids who supported the Vietnam War but were not there with us. If my buddies who died there, knew we would be buying clothes, made in Vietnam, at Walmart (which didn't even exist yet) they would laugh out loud.

Like war? Play video games.

Trvlr45
2nd April 2008, 01:29
You're all going to love this. I personally believe that the reason we are in Iraq is because of the central banking system. Interest is illegal in the middle east. Soddam was going to start trading his oil in Euros. Big loss for "The Banksters". Incidently Chavez and the Iranians want to do the same thing becuase our dollar is worthless. There are billions to be made on everyone there being in debt to the bank there just like we are here, including the countries themselves, just like here. Second of all, controlling the oil in the middle east by the richest people on the planet is good buisiness because then they can charge whatever they want. It's the simple law of supply and demand. All you have to control is one.
Our president's are all manipulated and people like Cheney and Rumsfeld just have a job to do. They are econimic hit-men. They are employees, that's all. Very well paid employees. The bank is the problem.
I was one of the first people to yell charge after 911 but now consider the whole thing a farce because it is obvious our military was never meant to get the job done quickly. The surge is about 6 years late. Our military is too good and our leaders aren't that stupid.
I don't believe one word of the 911 commision just like I know the Warren Commission was a pack of lies. We'll never know what happened on 911 or how it did happen but I don't believe anyone could be stupid enough to know it was coming (Operation Able Danger) and not take it seriously enough to stop it.
All you have to do is look at all the scams our government has laid on us over the past hundred years from the Federal Reserve Act, Feminism (they could only tax half the population before feminism and they achieved the break-up of the family with record numbers of divorces), the income tax, (making interest only payments on an unlimited national debt due to a fiat currency) and now man-made climate change (a global income tax on normal weather changes) and you'll get my drift. Every scam has taken away more of our ability to support ourselves and more of our rights along with the moral decay of our culture. 911 erased the constitution with the Patriot Act (used now by the IRS and law enforcement agencies everywhere) and it wasn't written on 9/12.
Our Congress, the Senate and every president are fed garbage from their advisors (most of which worked for the Fed) so they will react to everything just the way the global elites want them to and the rest all have secrets to hide (drug habits, wearing womens underwear, pedephilia etc.) so are controlled. Kennedy was a fine example of what happens to you if you go against the grain. He signed executive order 11110 and that, along with everything else he tried to do for us got him killed in my opinion.
Look at the manipulation of the markets and then try and tell yourself the markets are the only thing being manipulated. Buy your silver because with the Federal Reserve causing the mortage problem and many others they now will use the Hegelian Dialect to take even more control of our economy. I wouldn't be surprised if they make owning silver and gold a crime.
With CAIR, LaRazza, open borders and Saudi Arabia (one of the biggest exporters of terrorism) building Mosques all over our country I find it hard to believe ther is a real war on terror just like there was never a war on drugs just an assault on our constitutional protections under the guise of a war on drugs. Ever hear of civil forfieture? It is un-constitutional but because of the "war on drugs" they do it all the time.
Ron Paul was our last chance.

TRVLR45:

JesterJay
2nd April 2008, 02:50
I'd prefer to talk about silver.
Politics are so undefined. You see one thing. I see another. My country is attacked (I suppose that was my fault too), you see nothing wrong with.
Have fun in your new country.
Since it is so great there. You will enjoy it after the US is gone. Then you will have no one to blame the world's troubles on.
Hmmm. Could it be the Human Rights activists in the Middle East?
You have NO IDEA what is going on in Iran.
Being there does nothing but keep them in line.
Poor little American,
J



Honestly, JesterJay, although I have always found your posts insightful and true regarding the silver market, I have to say that the U.S. is in the fault here as far as "reason" is concerned.

Iran has DONE (not said, because talk is cheap) nothing, not a thing, nada, zilch, zero, zip, that has transgressed international law or courtesy.

The U.S., on the other hand, has several aircraft carrier and nuclear attack submarines RIGHT OFF OF THE COAST of Iran.

And Iran is the "big bad wolf" that's bullying the innocent ******s (whoever) around?

If Iran were to send aircraft carriers (they don't have any) and nuclear attack submarines (they don't have any) cruising on the coasts of U.S., would they be so deserving of sympathey and support as the U.S. is at the moment?



What the hell kind of logic are people subscribing to these days? Poor little Americans with their aircraft carriers, bombers, fighter jets, and nuclear submarines parked on the coast of Iran is being bullied by big bad Iran?

WTF?

I guess people see what they want to see.

Daveman
2nd April 2008, 06:09
I'm saying it's a BAD idea to attack Iran.

You're saying it's a good idea to attack Iran.

I'll leave it at this and let history decide between us.


Just out of curiosity, Jester, looking back from hindsight, do you think it was a good idea, from the well being of America, to have gone into Iraq?

Robin
2nd April 2008, 08:11
You're all going to love this. I personally believe that the reason we are in Iraq is because of the central banking system. Interest is illegal in the middle east. Soddam was going to start trading his oil in Euros. Big loss for "The Banksters". Incidently Chavez and the Iranians want to do the same thing becuase our dollar is worthless. There are billions to be made on everyone there being in debt to the bank there just like we are here, including the countries themselves, just like here. Second of all, controlling the oil in the middle east by the richest people on the planet is good buisiness because then they can charge whatever they want. It's the simple law of supply and demand. All you have to control is one.
Our president's are all manipulated and people like Cheney and Rumsfeld just have a job to do. They are econimic hit-men. They are employees, that's all. Very well paid employees. The bank is the problem.
I was one of the first people to yell charge after 911 but now consider the whole thing a farce because it is obvious our military was never meant to get the job done quickly. The surge is about 6 years late. Our military is too good and our leaders aren't that stupid.
I don't believe one word of the 911 commision just like I know the Warren Commission was a pack of lies. We'll never know what happened on 911 or how it did happen but I don't believe anyone could be stupid enough to know it was coming (Operation Able Danger) and not take it seriously enough to stop it.
All you have to do is look at all the scams our government has laid on us over the past hundred years from the Federal Reserve Act, Feminism (they could only tax half the population before feminism and they achieved the break-up of the family with record numbers of divorces), the income tax, (making interest only payments on an unlimited national debt due to a fiat currency) and now man-made climate change (a global income tax on normal weather changes) and you'll get my drift. Every scam has taken away more of our ability to support ourselves and more of our rights along with the moral decay of our culture. 911 erased the constitution with the Patriot Act (used now by the IRS and law enforcement agencies everywhere) and it wasn't written on 9/12.
Our Congress, the Senate and every president are fed garbage from their advisors (most of which worked for the Fed) so they will react to everything just the way the global elites want them to and the rest all have secrets to hide (drug habits, wearing womens underwear, pedephilia etc.) so are controlled. Kennedy was a fine example of what happens to you if you go against the grain. He signed executive order 11110 and that, along with everything else he tried to do for us got him killed in my opinion.
Look at the manipulation of the markets and then try and tell yourself the markets are the only thing being manipulated. Buy your silver because with the Federal Reserve causing the mortage problem and many others they now will use the Hegelian Dialect to take even more control of our economy. I wouldn't be surprised if they make owning silver and gold a crime.
With CAIR, LaRazza, open borders and Saudi Arabia (one of the biggest exporters of terrorism) building Mosques all over our country I find it hard to believe ther is a real war on terror just like there was never a war on drugs just an assault on our constitutional protections under the guise of a war on drugs. Ever hear of civil forfieture? It is un-constitutional but because of the "war on drugs" they do it all the time.
Ron Paul was our last chance.

TRVLR45:

This all makes since. Couldn't agree with you more. But what the he!! happens now? Because all I ever wanted was our borders secure after 911

Robin
2nd April 2008, 08:28
Hahahaha

If the Martians were to attack the U.S., I wonder how long it would take for our economy to go down hill all together AFTER THE GOVERNMENT SPEND ANOTHER 2 TRILLON USD ON THE WAR OF MARS.

Well, I guess we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. We all should just sit around and wait with our fingers up our butts and see what happens next.

Pax Awalup
2nd April 2008, 08:45
Wow... I am amazed how some people can know about the Federal Reserve and the Banking Cartel, yet see so little of the big picture. I was one one of those Mickey Mouse finger flipping "nuke iran" types... years ago.

911 was a wake up call and I awoke when I began to research that event. I've neither the time or inclination to educate others anymore. Do your own research and know this:

911 was an inside job!

prahudka
2nd April 2008, 08:53
Why the hell don't you wait for a NUCLEAR 911. Then go blast 'em. It is always best to ignore your enemy until they get the upper hand and strike you first.
Note the sarcasm,


Whether or not there is a constitutional issue in attacking Iran, it is pretty clear that Iran has announced its intentions, which would be to destroy Israel and America. They have told us all we need to know.

Attacking them MAY not be the best tactic. However, the notion that a US attack would be "naked aggression" is as stupid as saying that a Muslim proclamation to subvert the constitution of the US or the representative government of the UK is merely free speech and participation in the market place of ideas like every other type of political speech.

You are right that many people are incapable of understanding real threats and illegal aggression against the United States -- until there are actually bodies in the street.

Pax Awalup
2nd April 2008, 10:28
Whether or not there is a constitutional issue in attacking Iran, it is pretty clear that Iran has announced its intentions, which would be to destroy Israel and America. They have told us all we need to know.

Ok, give us the exact quote. Otherwise statements like this merely parrot talking heads on channels lke Faux News. Iran's President Did Not Say "Israel must be wiped off the map"
(http://http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article16218.htm)

And what is so special about Israel? Land stolen from indigenous peoples to give to people of European ancestry. They are not the children of Abraham. Israel was a deal set forth and accomplished by the Rothchild's to further their agenda...

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 10:46
So G. Dubbya and Cheney see the fact that Iran has nuclear power plants a threat to our national security? Well, how many nuclear power plants do WE have? We've got a bunch.

And if Iran is NOT to use nuclear power to supply their populace with electricity, what would G. Dubbya and Cheney suggest they do instead? Because the Iranians could always STOP selling their oil on the market and decide to burn it instead to drive the turbines to create electricity.

It's not like the Middle East can burn coal to produce electricity or even run very many hydroelectric power plants. They are not long on those natural resources as far as I can see.

Gads. This is the year 2008 and every country in the world has a right to develop some way to produce electricity. Iran's only choice was to either build nuclear power plants or burn oil.

JaySpizzy
2nd April 2008, 11:05
If you claim to know anything about precious metals and why we are investing in them, you should know this:

The reason why we are poised to attack Iran is to prolong the dollar's run as the reserve currency of the world.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm

Its called the Iranian Oil Bourse, and could trash the dollar with a quickness. So few know about this.

Silvercaper
2nd April 2008, 11:20
The following is a good read as well.

HON. RON PAUL OF TEXAS
Before the U.S. House of Representatives

February 15, 2006


The End of Dollar Hegemony

A hundred years ago it was called “dollar diplomacy.” After World War II, and especially after the fall of the Soviet Union in 1989, that policy evolved into “dollar hegemony.” But after all these many years of great success, our dollar dominance is coming to an end.

It has been said, rightly, that he who holds the gold makes the rules. In earlier times it was readily accepted that fair and honest trade required an exchange for something of real value.

Continued at the following link:
http://www.house.gov/paul/congrec/congrec2006/cr021506.htm

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 11:44
I think JaySpizzy is absolutely correct. I too believe that America is attempting to establish a long-term military presence in the Middle East in order to prevent the oil nations from deciding to trade their oil in Euros. Since we now import everything and don't really manufacture anything to speak of anymore to export, that would mean we will have no Euros with which to buy oil. Consequently, we would have to end up going through the currancy change of trading dollars for Euros just to even buy a barrel of oil. Currantly our dollars are valued at only .64 cents against the Euro.

And from the looks of things Big Business in America doesn't like that idea.

chux03
2nd April 2008, 12:47
"You have NO IDEA what is going on in Iran.
Being there does nothing but keep them in line."


To which I say:

I DON'T CARE what's going on in Iran nor do they deserve being bombed. Being there...where in our Constitution does it say that we (the U.S.) are required to "be there" or do anything along the lines of "keeping them in line??" Hint: It's not in there and, according to the rule of law, our occupation of Iraq and now the conquest of Iran, are ILLEGAL, not to mention immoral as well.

That's the kind of thinking that's gotten us into this mess in the first place. And the sooner we get back to minding our own business, withdrawing from our latest nightmare in the Middle East and quit engaging people who want to be left in the 8th century because the only thing they own, which is OIL, we want and will do ANYTHING for. And that's because the Criminal in Chief has FAILED to guide industry along in search of an alternative or at least put in place market incentives which would accomplish the same goal. These people act like we MUST first withdraw every drop of oil everywhere on Earth before doing something about our addictedness to the stuff.
Finally, about two weeks ago I heard a story on George Noory's Coast To Coast radio show and he was quoting a new news story about a vast, new oil field that's been recently discovered under North Dakota, South Dakota, eastern Montana, Minnesota and even up into Alberta, Canada. This is DEEP oil and THERE'S LOTS OF IT. Billions and billions of barrels of HIGH GRADE crude that, at the present use rates right here, right now, could supply ALL the oil we'd need here in the U.S. AT THE PRESENT CONSUMPTION RATES for well over 100 years.
You know I've Googled this for some days now and have yet to see this mentioned anywhere else. Wouldn't you think that in normal times (whatever those look like) that they'd be RUSHING in to develop a resource such as this? But in these times of brain deficits at the top & war mongering in the Oval Office it doesn't even rate a mention in the main stream media. Besides being amazing, this should open your eyes as further evidence of market manipulation and the ho-hum attitude that's prevailant in government once again on display for ALL to see.
Again, maybe going bankrupt wouldn't be so bad IF it meant shedding once and for all, the BIG GOVERNMENT shackles that bound us all.

www.lewrockwell.com/dilorenzo/dilorenzo136.html - Hamilton's Curse - An interesting article about how we got to this point in our history. This mistake is over 200 years old and we've suffered as a nation ever since...

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 13:03
I heard a story on George Noory's Coast To Coast radio show and he was quoting a new news story about a vast, new oil field that's been recently discovered under North Dakota, South Dakota, eastern Montana, Minnesota and even up into Alberta, Canada. This is DEEP oil and THERE'S LOTS OF IT. Billions and billions of barrels of HIGH GRADE crude that, at the present use rates right here, right now, could supply ALL the oil we'd need here in the U.S. AT THE PRESENT CONSUMPTION RATES for well over 100 years.

Well that IS interesting! I listen to Noory too occasionally. I sure hope you track that story down. Noory and many of his guests and listeners are big believers in the theory that "peak oil" is a scam. That belief is not based upon how much oil is left in the Middle East, but based upon the theory that it was the Big Oil Companies that first told people that "oil must have come from rotting dinosaurs so we are all going to run out someday." Well really, that theory has NEVER been scientifically prooven; it's just a "belief" everybody accepted long ago with no real proof. Today there is just as much scientific evidence indicating that oil is something the earth makes continiously, just like the earth continues to make rock and stones and mountains. They see oil as a part of the long term earth process.

I ride the fence on it, but I'd sure like to see more of the evidence.

JaySpizzy
2nd April 2008, 13:23
Nice Ron Paul article, Silvercaper.

If you can see this at all, we are about two hundred years deep in a web of manipulation by a Central Banking Cartel who shortly plans to own everything on this planet- no joke.

One tragedy is, along the way, our country has become a sort of "central bank" in itself, offering worthless fiat dollars to other countries in exchange for their valuable labor and commodities, while we in fact produce very little. Isn't that what a central bank does? What's more, since they have become addicted to this exchange, when our dollar crashes, they will be up sh#t's creek.

What would you think of us if you were them?

Whether or not there is oil in North Dakota, we should keep our eyes in the right place- our rights.

911 was a vicious plot to take much of our freedom away, and it worked. What will the war with Iran do?

This is so much more important than our money: A broke man with rights can make more money, but a rich slave can be stripped of his wealth and have nothing.

FedFixNix
2nd April 2008, 14:50
Just to go back to the original post, re invading Iran, I've been warning that without massive public opposition, or even in spite of it, some pretext was going to be found to invade Iran, or lacking a ground invasion, use missile and air strikes. I've been warning people about this for 7 years, ever since I first read the PNAC website (Project for a New American Century - Google it - read their plans for the middle east)

As for Silver and gold going up, only massive market manipulation of a kind far more than the Fed and the central bankers have ever done before (and they've done a LOT) can keep the prices of PMs down.

The PTB (Powers that be) need a serious war in order to seize emergency war powers and suppress the truth about these and many other important matters that pertain to our basic freedoms and liberties.

Much of this has been detailed in the many pages of the "Doublespeak 101" thread.

The last half dozen comments here have been right on the money.

FedFixNix
2nd April 2008, 15:00
Just another thought. The value of the dollar is being deliberately eroded by inflation, by creating too many dollars out of nothing. I'm pretty sure the plan is to sink the dollar so they can use its collapse to introduce the Amero, a new unit of money produced by the North American Union (similar to the Euro). The NAU will originally include Canada and Mexico along with the USA. It may eventually include central American countries, or even South American, although I think they have another continental union in mind for them.

What is going on is so similar to Orwell's 1984 that it's creepy. Pretty soon we may actually be seeing the "Ministry of Truth" in the NAU or other "unions".

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 15:33
Krassimir Petrov's article, The Proposed Iranian Oil Bourse, is outstanding. Thanks for posting the link.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article11613.htm


"In 1971, as it became clearer and clearer that the U.S Government would not be able to buy back its dollars in gold, it made in 1972-73 an iron-clad arrangement with Saudi Arabia to support the power of the House of Saud in exchange for accepting only U.S. dollars for its oil. The rest of OPEC was to follow suit and also accept only dollars. Because the world had to buy oil from the Arab oil countries, it had the reason to hold dollars as payment for oil. Because the world needed ever increasing quantities of oil at ever increasing oil prices, the world's demand for dollars could only increase. Even though dollars could no longer be exchanged for gold, they were now exchangeable for oil."

"The economic essence of this arrangement was that the dollar was now backed by oil. As long as that was the case, the world had to accumulate increasing amounts of dollars, because they needed those dollars to buy oil. As long as the dollar was the only acceptable payment for oil, its dominance in the world was assured, and the American Empire could continue to tax the rest of the world. If, for any reason, the dollar lost its oil backing, the American Empire would cease to exist. Thus, Imperial survival dictated that oil be sold only for dollars. It also dictated that oil reserves were spread around various sovereign states that weren't strong enough, politically or militarily, to demand payment for oil in something else. If someone demanded a different payment, he had to be convinced, either by political pressure or military means, to change his mind."

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 15:40
What is going on is so similar to Orwell's 1984 that it's creepy.

Orwell wasn't the only science fiction author that said things that appear to be taking place now...

"It is the system of nationalist individualism that has to go....We are living in the end of the sovereign states....In the great struggle to evoke a Westernized World Socialism, contemporary governments may vanish....Countless people...will hate the new world order....and will die protesting against it." - H.G. Wells, in his book, The New World Order, 1940

chux03
2nd April 2008, 17:03
I've been depressed since reading this...


Silver, Gold & The Last American Hero JFK

Darryl Robert Schoon
Apr 1, 2008

hero, def. a man distinguished by exceptional courage and nobility and strength

wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

Like everything in our past, the late American president, John Fitzgerald Kennedy, exists as a memory. Struck down by an assassin in a decade where bullets - democracy's deadly equalizer - quieted those brave enough to champion change, e.g. JFK, Martin Luther King and Robert Kennedy, President John Fitzgerald Kennedy was a true American hero; and heroes, while a champion to many are, by definition, a threat to some.

In How To Survive The Crisis And Prosper In The Process I detailed how America's problems after 1950 mirrored England's descent from power one century before. America's problems did not go unnoticed by those who then led the US, Presidents Dwight D. Eisenhower and his successor, John F. Kennedy. The reaction of each, however, is a chilling reminder of the dangers facing those who rule.

President Dwight D. Eisenhower was Supreme Commander of the Allied Forces that defeated the fascist powers in World War II; and, as a war hero, he was believed to be an ideal candidate for the Republican Party in the 1952 presidential elections.

Eisenhower was elected but while serving as president, Eisenhower clearly saw the forces that would someday be responsible for America's loss of power; for it was during Eisenhower's presidency that the erosion of America's economic wealth began.

Prior to Eisenhower's presidency in 1952, the US was the wealthiest nation in the world. As the largest industrial power, the US enjoyed a positive balance of trade with its partners. Before Eisenhower assumed office, the US had gold reserves totaling almost 22,000 tons, the most gold any nation had ever possessed.

When Eisenhower left office, however, it is uncertain how much gold remained; because after 1954, the US never allowed a public audit of its gold reserves. As the US then sold more goods abroad than it bought, US gold reserves should have increased. Instead, they declined. In one year alone, 1958, US gold reserves were reduced by 10 %.

The powerful forces that controlled America were spending so much of America's wealth on overseas military and corporate expansion that gold was flowing out faster than trade could bring it in. Indeed, the profligate spending responsible for America's loss of gold and consequent debt began during Eisenhower's presidency.

I place economy among the first and most important republican virtues, and public debt as the greatest of the dangers to be feared. To preserve our independence, we must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
-President Thomas Jefferson 1743-1826

Only days before leaving office, in his Farewell Speech Eisenhower named those he believed responsible for the policies that would someday endanger America's liberties and render this once wealthy nation financially insolvent.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

...We cannot mortgage the material assets of our grandchildren without risking the loss also of their political and spiritual heritage. We want democracy to survive for all generations to come, not to become the insolvent phantom of tomorrow.

Less than fifty years after Eisenhower uttered those prophetic words, America's patrimony is gone and its future mortgaged beyond its ability to repay. His words were heard but not heeded - not then or since. It cannot be said that America wasn't warned. It can and will be said that America didn't listen.

WHO RULES AMERICA

It is no coincidence that Eisenhower waited until three days before leaving office to warn America about the US military-industrial complex. A military man himself, Eisenhower felt it necessary to warn the country of the unwarranted influence and intrusion of military and industrial [sic business] interests that were then colluding to hijack the future liberties and prosperity of America.

Eisenhower's warnings were not conclusions he had reached just before his presidency ended. They were conclusions Eisenhower had reached during his eight years as president, years spent observing how the business of government was conducted and who profited by its activities.

Eisenhower knew that even as President of the US, he did not possess the requisite power to openly oppose the powerful interests that were even then spending the US into insolvency. So President Eisenhower waited until the very end of his last term to warn America of the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex.

Eisenhower was right not to openly challenge the military-industrial complex. The man who succeeded Eisenhower as president, John F. Kennedy, did. But those who wield the real power behind the government's facade of democratic fair and equal rule were not to be trifled with then. They are not to be trifled with now.

REAL RULERS REAL POLOTIK

The real rulers in Washington are invisible, and exercise power from behind the scenes.
US Supreme Court Justice Felix Frankfurter

US President Woodrow Wilson also spoke of the real rulers in Washington DC decades before Eisenhower and Kennedy were to encounter them. In his preface to The New Freedom: A Call For The Emancipation Of The Generous Energies Of A People, Wilson wrote:

Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it.

These are not words of an imprudent man. They are the words of a US President who cared enough about his country to warn of the dangers lurking behind its illusory fašade of law, liberty, justice and equality for all. Dangers of which Americans were unaware of then - and of which the vast majority are still unaware of now.

EXECUTIVE ORDER 11110 AND THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK
Change is no more welcome in Washington DC than it was in Galilee

John F. Kennedy was not to live out his first term as President. Three years into his presidency, JFK was felled by an assassin's bullet in Dallas, Texas. While there is much controversy surrounding his death, it is clear that whatever the theory, it was no accident.

The assassination of a standing president is not undertaken lightly. The public killing of a highly popular political figure such as JFK is decided upon and agreed to only when sufficient amounts of money or power are at stake.

Previous theories have revolved around issues of power. Dissident and/or dissatisfied rogue CIA agents and/or right-wing Washington DC power brokers and/or the mafia conspiring separately or together in a mutual hatred for the upstart Kennedy have been the favored theories. Another, simpler theory, however, should also be considered - money.

On June 4, 1963, Executive Order 11110 was signed by President Kennedy directing the US Treasury to issue a new US currency. This new US currency was to be backed by a precious metal - silver, unlike the credit-backed money issued by the Federal Reserve since 1913.

Continues here:

http://www.321gold.com/editorials/schoon/schoon040108.html

chux03
2nd April 2008, 17:09
THE ARK OF GOLD & SILVER

"If we invest in gold and silver - the anathema of private bankers, we can survive the crisis they caused. The economic carnage set in motion by government's pact with private bankers will affect everyone - workers, savers, entrepreneurs, investors, pensioners, the helpless, as well the innocent and the guilty. Yes, bankers, too, will lose at least some of their wealth, if not all.

Everyone everywhere will be affected by the collapse of credit-based central banking. The economic landscape is already shifting as global credit markets implode. Bankers - the parasites of commerce and productivity - are now victims of their own excessive greed. Their demise will affect us all.

The torrent of collapsing debt accumulated and compounded since the beginning of central banking is about to be unleashed on an unsuspecting world. All beginnings have endings. So, too, does debt-based central banking."


"THE FEDERAL RESERVE'S WAR ON GOLD

The Fed's war on gold is not without reason - their reason, not ours. Ever since those in control of the US overspent America's gold in the pursuit of military power and corporate expansion, the US paper dollar has been just that, a paper dollar exposed and vulnerable to the more obvious value of gold to which it was once convertible.

This is the reason the Fed and central banks have fought the rise of the price of gold since the US reneged on its gold obligations in the 1970s. The rising price of gold belies the Achilles heel of central banking, built on a foundation of debt-based paper money worth no more than the debts issued to produce it, debts that are no longer capable of being repaid.

The Swiss central bank sold 22 tons of its gold last fall as the price of gold raced towards the $1,000 per ounce mark. Without the intervention of the Swiss central bank, the price of gold would have passed $1,000 last year as easily as a Ferrari passes an elephant or an ass.

Buy as much gold as you can as long as central banks are selling it. It is our gold, after all, that they are selling. For when the flight from paper assets begins in earnest, there will be no gold for sale, at any price; and silver will do very well, as well."

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 17:24
Chux03, when I first connected the dots about JFK and why he was probably killed, I went into a black funk for weeks. But I keep going back and watching that wonderful speech he made about wanting to return our government to honesty, ending the secrecy, and becoming the kind of government our forefathers wanted for this nation.

And when I think about that speech, I know that they could only kill Kennedy's body, but I think his spirit is alive and well. I like to think he is still watching over this nation. I think he will always live in our hearts. He's still living in your heart, isn't he?

Kelly
2nd April 2008, 19:46
If you guys haven't heard Kennedy's speech yet, here it is. And if you have heard it you can always listen again and remember the profound words of a brave man who actually tried to back the dollar with silver again...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1710662559138481080&q=JFK&total=12822&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5

main1event
2nd April 2008, 22:41
Paranoia destroys nations, there is nothing to fear but fear itself. The reason we are losing so many freedoms is fear.

Trvlr45
3rd April 2008, 01:31
This all makes since. Couldn't agree with you more. But what the he!! happens now? Because all I ever wanted was our borders secure after 911

I haven't a clue, Robin. I think we are screwed because the vast majority of the people in this country are still watching "Bubble Vision" and think they know what is going on. They don't. What worries me is that as time rolls on and things get worse they will do exactly what the elites want them to do. The Republicans (I was one up until watching GW in action and learning more about what is happening) will blame the democrats and the democrats will blame the Republicans. What no one understands is that it is the same evil party with two heads. The democratic party is now almost 100% communist following in Stalin's footsteps and the Republican party is now Fascist using Mussolini as their heroe. Either way we are finished unless alot of people wake up real quick.

JaySpizzy
3rd April 2008, 09:37
THE ARK OF GOLD & SILVER

"If we invest in gold and silver - the anathema of private bankers, we can survive the crisis they caused. The economic carnage set in motion by government's pact with private bankers will affect everyone - workers, savers, entrepreneurs, investors, pensioners, the helpless, as well the innocent and the guilty. Yes, bankers, too, will lose at least some of their wealth, if not all.

Everyone everywhere will be affected by the collapse of credit-based central banking. The economic landscape is already shifting as global credit markets implode. Bankers - the parasites of commerce and productivity - are now victims of their own excessive greed. Their demise will affect us all.

The torrent of collapsing debt accumulated and compounded since the beginning of central banking is about to be unleashed on an unsuspecting world. All beginnings have endings. So, too, does debt-based central banking."


"THE FEDERAL RESERVE'S WAR ON GOLD

The Fed's war on gold is not without reason - their reason, not ours. Ever since those in control of the US overspent America's gold in the pursuit of military power and corporate expansion, the US paper dollar has been just that, a paper dollar exposed and vulnerable to the more obvious value of gold to which it was once convertible.

This is the reason the Fed and central banks have fought the rise of the price of gold since the US reneged on its gold obligations in the 1970s. The rising price of gold belies the Achilles heel of central banking, built on a foundation of debt-based paper money worth no more than the debts issued to produce it, debts that are no longer capable of being repaid.

The Swiss central bank sold 22 tons of its gold last fall as the price of gold raced towards the $1,000 per ounce mark. Without the intervention of the Swiss central bank, the price of gold would have passed $1,000 last year as easily as a Ferrari passes an elephant or an ass.

Buy as much gold as you can as long as central banks are selling it. It is our gold, after all, that they are selling. For when the flight from paper assets begins in earnest, there will be no gold for sale, at any price; and silver will do very well, as well."

This is right on.

The war is not on gold, but on the perceived value of gold in the eyes of the world at large. The Central Banks do value gold, more than we can probably imagine, but they don't want you to, and will do anything to keep you from doing it, including "loan" it to you.

So, our only hope is to take the gold. Keep it. Don't give it up. Educate others
to do the same. Of course, we will make money because gold and silver will rise, but that is only a side issue. The power they hold is nothing but the power to make you accept this system.

If only a small percentage of the population were smart enough to purchase gold, or demand it, the Central bank charade would dissolve shortly thereafter.