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brewlio
29th May 2009, 04:56
i was wondering if anybody can help me.

In the late 80s my father was doing some business with American corporations and at the end of a deal the board rewarded him with an Engelhard silver bar for his services. Sadly he passed away in 2006 and one of the items he left me was this bullion bar. He was never sentimental about it, and always said I should get what I could for it. It had been lying in a cupboard for over 3 years now.

i don't know anything about silver bullion, but i have made some internet enquiries into Englehard bars. They don't seem to come on the open market in the UK very often. It appears there is a lot more JM bars in circulation.

it is your typical Engelhard, +999. 100 tr oz.

But I have never seen a bar like this. It has been engraved, obviously at the Engelhard mint. The engravemnet reads:

"The greatest reward for mans toil is not what he gains from it but rather what he becomes by it" Ruskin

Who is Ruskin ? Has anyone encountered one like it before ? my research comes up with nothing. Also the bar is a pure extruded one and not one of these poured jobs. Does the inscription add to the value of the bullion ? i am looking to put this 100 tr oz bar on the market, but i do not have a clue how to go about it. any help would be appreciated.

Cup-of-Ruin
29th May 2009, 05:22
i was wondering if anybody can help me.

In the late 80s my father was doing some business with American corporations and at the end of a deal the board rewarded him with an Engelhard silver bar for his services. Sadly he passed away in 2006 and one of the items he left me was this bullion bar. He was never sentimental about it, and always said I should get what I could for it. It had been lying in a cupboard for over 3 years now.

i don't know anything about silver bullion, but i have made some internet enquiries into Englehard bars. They don't seem to come on the open market in the UK very often. It appears there is a lot more JM bars in circulation.

it is your typical Engelhard, +999. 100 tr oz.

But I have never seen a bar like this. It has been engraved, obviously at the Engelhard mint. The engravemnet reads:

"The greatest reward for mans toil is not what he gains from it but rather what he becomes by it" Ruskin

Who is Ruskin ? Has anyone encountered one like it before ? my research comes up with nothing. Also the bar is a pure extruded one and not one of these poured jobs. Does the inscription add to the value of the bullion ? i am looking to put this 100 tr oz bar on the market, but i do not have a clue how to go about it. any help would be appreciated.

John Ruskin was an artist and writer.

The bar certainly has more value then just bullion value, rare silver bars with limited mintage are rising in value and this is a one of a kind, so I think you could add at least 50% maybe double the pure bullion value. But why sell? We're on the verge of a silver breakout.

brewlio
29th May 2009, 05:39
But why sell? We're on the verge of a silver breakout.
my personal finances are in dire straits and i need a cash injection. pronto

i would accept a reasonable price for it. it truly is an ornate piece of silver. how would i go about putting it on the market ?

Cup-of-Ruin
29th May 2009, 06:42
my personal finances are in dire straits and i need a cash injection. pronto

i would accept a reasonable price for it. it truly is an ornate piece of silver. how would i go about putting it on the market ?

OK, a few options then you can sell it on ebay, where I believe it would do quite well at today's prices it would be $1550 just at bullion on ebay thats no problem at auction but I would think that it would sell closer to $2000 in my opinion, it's not hard to set up an ebay account if you dont have one. Otherwise you could take it to a metal dealer or a coin shop or even an antique dealer, on the day they will give you a spot silver price as a minimum buy, but your bar is better then that, a local dealer should pay at least 10% premium for your bar, but I think you could get more if you sold it yourself on ebay maybe over $2000 if it was to be delivered in England as sending it overseas would cost over 50 pounds, it's heavy so postage costs are a factor. So a few options, who your closest coin dealer?

Gen Ripper
29th May 2009, 07:57
Find a Precious Metal Dealer/coin shop, NOT a pawn shop. Dont take spot price (1500USD) for it, it is worth more.

brewlio
29th May 2009, 10:20
right, i've just been round to my mothers and collected the bar. i'm a little concerned that the bar is a little tarnished as its been sat only in the velvet display bag for years.

what is the best way to clean 100 oz silver bullion bars. do i get a recognised coin cleaner or do buyers just accept that silver does tarnish ?

i'm a little worried. wanted it to look its best for the photo's to go on ebay.

Cup-of-Ruin
29th May 2009, 20:24
right, i've just been round to my mothers and collected the bar. i'm a little concerned that the bar is a little tarnished as its been sat only in the velvet display bag for years.

what is the best way to clean 100 oz silver bullion bars. do i get a recognised coin cleaner or do buyers just accept that silver does tarnish ?

i'm a little worried. wanted it to look its best for the photo's to go on ebay.


Better to clean it, just use a silver/metal cleaner which you can get from a hardware store or even a supermarket use a soft cloth and some elbow grease. If it was a coin I would recommend not cleaning it, but a bullion bar looks great all polished up and shiny.

Steadfast
29th May 2009, 20:39
Leave the tarnish as it is...
as crazy as it sounds, some folks "like" tarnish and will pay more for it.

If you must clean it, buy some silver jewerly cleaner that smells like eggs and just dip a wrag in it and paint it on,
Then rinse it thouroughly with water.

Cup-of-Ruin
29th May 2009, 20:59
Yea tarnish can look better all depends though on how it looks, might have big black spot right in the centre or something, or might just be filthy dirty and needs to be washed in hot soapy water.

SeekrBrnEvryMin
29th May 2009, 22:09
Don't clean it. At all.

It's looking the way it does because of it's history. Don't damage it's history!

silverheartbone
30th May 2009, 00:36
Don't clean it. At all.

It's looking the way it does because of it's history. Don't damage it's history!
Now you know that did not work with your bedroom.

Clean it so it looks brand new never tarnished.

Argyria
31st May 2009, 01:08
Since it seems to have some value as a collectible, I would refrain from cleaning it. Cleaned coins have much less value than ones which are left alone, and perhaps the same will turn out to be true with bullion bars that have significant premiums because of their scarceness.

orpheus72
31st May 2009, 02:02
Since it seems to have some value as a collectible, I would refrain from cleaning it. Cleaned coins have much less value than ones which are left alone, and perhaps the same will turn out to be true with bullion bars that have significant premiums because of their scarceness.

As a Silver Art Bar collector I have to agree that it's better not to clean the bar. In my collection there are several bars who have toning, but I refuse to clean them in order not to dammage (scratch) them.
Real collectors will pay premiums, toning or not !

Yabezlas
2nd June 2009, 19:55
DO NOT CLEAN IT!! If the buyer wants it shiny, he can clean it. Once the tarnish is gone you cannot put it back. A serious buyer will recognize what it is and accordingly pay you more for it, in its current state. IMHO

Golden
3rd June 2009, 03:33
I don't think that the engraving has any special value. Since it was a gift it was engraved by those who gave the bar to your dad. Like you would engrave a ring or something. I don't think it's a limited edition or anything like that at all.

Cup-of-Ruin
3rd June 2009, 04:44
Engelhard's bring good premiums, and any engraving of note brings a premium, I wouldn't be suprised if it goes for a 50% premium, a big nice bar like that, be interesting to see what she goes for... hey mate let us know what she sells for would you.:mrgreen:

Argyria
4th June 2009, 03:32
So, orpheus72, I've taken a bit of a look at some of your art bars, and I'm wondering when its your turn in this show-and-tell party. Some of those are interesting, surely you've got something to show the thread.

orpheus72
4th June 2009, 04:29
So, orpheus72, I've taken a bit of a look at some of your art bars, and I'm wondering when its your turn in this show-and-tell party. Some of those are interesting, surely you've got something to show the thread.

Well Argyria, I hope you liked the bars i own so far.

I'm a Belgian collector and I'm collecting these .999 Silver Art Bars for over a year now (stopped my silver Euro collection as the premiums went +300% for .925 proofs).
I also joined the IASAC (#762), as there are (to my knowledge) no European clubs for Silver Art Bars

My collection is visible on my site, and i'm trying to improve my site almost every week (adding info about each bar by clicking on it).
If there are any topics here on the forum concerning silver Art Bars, i'll surely be in to the discussion, as I really love them.

I dont know if there is a photo-album option on this forum (i can't find it so far) i'll gladly post some pictures.

orpheus72
4th June 2009, 05:16
Here are a few bars that i like



http://users.skynet.be/bs137951/Forum/Forum/image001.jpg


http://users.skynet.be/bs137951/Forum/Forum/image006.jpg

Argyria
4th June 2009, 05:49
"If there are any topics here on the forum concerning silver Art Bars, i'll surely be in to the discussion, as I really love them."

Well, there is the 'Your strangest silver item' thread going on right now.

One question, if you just started collecting recently, why are so many of the bars dated 1973 and 1974? It's also interesting that so many survived the meltdown of 1979-1980.

orpheus72
4th June 2009, 06:07
"If there are any topics here on the forum concerning silver Art Bars, i'll surely be in to the discussion, as I really love them."

Well, there is the 'Your strangest silver item' thread going on right now.

One question, if you just started collecting recently, why are so many of the bars dated 1973 and 1974? It's also interesting that so many survived the meltdown of 1979-1980.

That the bars are from the early 70's is just normal, as the most Silver Art Bars where issued in the years 1969-1973.
That there are so many surviving bars? I don't know! some bars are minted in 10.000ths pieces, some only in 10 pieces. I think it's thanks to the collectors that these beautiful bars never hit the melting pot.

Another reason that my bars are in the early 70's, is that the designs of the bars are superb. The newer bars are just issued as 'bullion' or are minted in small ammounts, and are not to be found in Europe. Over here in Belgium you rarely find such Art Bars, and i need to buy them on Ebay, or from people who contact me trough my site, so i don't have lots of choice...

I surely will vistit the tread 'your strangest silver item'.