Why are most people so blind?

[akak]

Although this topic may have been addressed here before, I would really like to get some insight from all of you on this critical and puzzling phenomena: Why do most Americans, with the evidence of massive political corruption, the decay if not death of any meaningful possibility of political change, the complicity of the corporate media with the financial oligarchy's takeover of this nation, the overwhelming lies and disinformation spread by the powers-that-be in all contrast to the obvious truth, the decine in their standards of living and liberties, the routine usurpation of power by a exponentially metastisizing federal government ----- when all of this is staring them straight in the face, WHY and HOW can and do they still remain in such complete denial and/or complacency of all these facts and the blatant truth right under their noses?

Sometimes I almost feel that my head is literally going to explode, so angry, fustrated and enraged do I feel --- not just at the political and financial establishments, evil as they are, but at all their enablers in the general population! Are we collectively truly THAT stupid and dumb-downed? Is there something in the water that makes them so tuned-out? Have most of us been taken over by alien pod-people?

I have tried and tried to talk to many friends and relatives along these lines, and not one in ten will even begin to truly listen or try to understand. Worse than that, I usually just get the same old bullshit lines: "Enough with all your gloom and doom!" "Oh, things are not that bad --- you're just exaggerating!" "The government is only doing what it thinks is best", blah blah blah, bahhh bahhh bahhhhh.

Am I alone in feeling almost like I am living among aliens, or indifferent slugs who have taken the shape of humans?

[Sue-Z-Q]

............

[LoboNoches]

The answer to your question is simple.People as a whole fear change.It's better to sit in the shit, in the stink there used to and have decisions made for you them,then to step out into the unknown.Society has become a bunch of little birds afraid to leave the nest when they need a swift kick in the ass and learn to fly.Trust me I know I spent my whole life enslaved to fear.Fear of life,success,failure,everything.I believe Susie Q stated the acronym in another thread FEAR (Fuck Everything And Run) or FEAR (Face Everything And Recover).The greatest gift God gave us was the ability to have freedom of choice and yet we as a people choose to not make one,not realizing that by not choosing were still making a choice.I believe it was Eisenhower that said:
"There is no such thing as a bad decision so long as you have the strength to choose.For more is lost through indecision than by making one"

[Sue-Z-Q]

............

[LoboNoches]

I believe the saying goes "When the pain of remaining the same is greater than the pain of change we change"Funny it's a double edge sword.The ability to withstand pain in the face of adversity is one of humankinds greatest strengths and yet it has become a crutch.Sometimes we must surrender to win in other aspects we must fight to survive.However this little play unfolds one thing is for sure it will be one hell of a show

[fansubs_ca]

Am I alone in feeling almost like I am living among aliens, or indifferent slugs who have taken the shape of humans?

The survey says it's mostly indifferent slugs, I was unable to get any opinions
out of the aliens because I don't speak spanish. ;)

Both comments are my own speculation based on 3 years of working at a
polling firm. A more scientific study would cost more. ;)

Although I am unable to explain the widespread blindness, the deafness is
largely attributed to listening to music too loud.

[Mylläri]

I've pondered over this for years, especially over the past 2-3 years as things continue to get worse by the day with no real hope in sight (and if you say that Barry O'Bama brings hope I'll cut all the toes off on one of your feet). I got to a point where I was about to explode but just kinda shutdown and now just don't care to think about it so much.

What I think is that people are so consumed with what is going on in their own lives and the lives of those they care about that they don't have time to care about why things are bad and getting worse around them in national and governmental matters. I think this is intrinsic to the American spirit, until people are directly affected by such they simply want to be left to live their own lives on their own terms. For me, nothing has truely affected me that much. My mother brought that to my attention a little over a year ago when I was getting a bit overzealous with her in a conversation about my negative feelings towards America.

We can sit around and discuss every poor aspect of American society indefinately, but I think time would be better spent thinking about how we are affected and work to solve any problems we face. My mother just called me yesterday to tell me that her husband is getting fired the day before his employer will be offering early retirement, yes he was directly told that by his boss... what a raw deal, eh? Should I be more concerned with that and how I can help them if needs be or with the astronomically high national budget defecit? Should I care more about Chrysler's bankruptcy or the fact that my father will never truly be able to retire because his 401k was bleeding money in 4th quarter 2008 and how I can help him invest for his future.

I have a liberal friend who has told me since my latest personal revolution that I need to care more because all these national and global issues matter and affect all of us. To me, no they don't because I'm still living my life like I was back in 2006 when I began to "care" like he still does and since then nothing has much changed. All the political activism I took part in didn't make ONE bit of difference in my life or the lives of anyone that I know. I don't mean to sound apathetic or selfish as that is how I may be percieved, I do believe that it is more important to be focused on what is important to me personally as compared to that which I cannot affect and have no stake in.

[Ancona]

There are certainly a lot of people out there who are in a TV induced stupor who will never "get it", because they simply do not have the tools to grasp what is happenning around them.

Many of us here spend a good bit of time researching macro economics, political trends, foreign government, the military industrial complex, etc. etc. Most of the people in the U.S. simply go about their day without ever giving a thought to any of the aforementioned.

The real tragedy is that it is by design. The government stopped giving us real information a long time ago, and substituted it with the statistics we see each month by DOL, BLS etc. The last two generations have been brought up in a sound bite world with the television as a babysitter. There is little or no interaction between adults and their children, so the only information these two lost generations got was from the school system [read: government] or the television. We let the schools babysit the kids during the day and the TV to do it at night.

We are faced with the reality that these two generations are coming of age, and have been completely indoctrinated in the way of the government through the ridiculous liberal schmack they were taught in school, and the garbage on TV that is supposed to be considered entertainment.

I weep for our future.

[hiyosilver]

People are waking up. But: will they do it in time?!


No........

[ANGRYITCH]

There are certainly a lot of people out there who are in a TV induced stupor who will never "get it", because they simply do not have the tools to grasp what is happenning around them.

Many of us here spend a good bit of time researching macro economics, political trends, foreign government, the military industrial complex, etc. etc. Most of the people in the U.S. simply go about their day without ever giving a thought to any of the aforementioned.

The real tragedy is that it is by design. The government stopped giving us real information a long time ago, and substituted it with the statistics we see each month by DOL, BLS etc. The last two generations have been brought up in a sound bite world with the television as a babysitter. There is little or no interaction between adults and their children, so the only information these two lost generations got was from the school system [read: government] or the television. We let the schools babysit the kids during the day and the TV to do it at night.

We are faced with the reality that these two generations are coming of age, and have been completely indoctrinated in the way of the government through the ridiculous liberal schmack they were taught in school, and the garbage on TV that is supposed to be considered entertainment.

I weep for our future.

I totally agree! If adults don't get it, then what will happen to the children?

The amount and type of distractions these days obscures any hint at truth seeking. Or knowing there is a truth to seek for that matter...

[LoboNoches]

I totally agree! If adults don't get it, then what will happen to the children?

The amount and type of distractions these days obscures any hint at truth seeking. Or knowing there is a truth to seek for that matter...

That my friend is my greatest fear.Which is why I'm going to break the cycle and teach my son better.To pay attention to the world around him and help where he can.All my silver (little that I have)is for SHTF scenario or being passed on to him.This way he will be better prepared to find some salvation in the future.

[hiyosilver]

teach my son better.


If you posted it, I didn't catch it....may I ask, how old is your son?....in months if you will.

If he's not yet a year, I have a book I would recommend you read. I'll explain if you're interested.

[sliver]

I think most of the reasons given here for the complacency are mostly right on. There are a few additional factors that I think are also part of this: Most people haven't experienced true hardship like our depression era parents did, so they don't realize the consequences. Also people are so busy with two jobs and trying to maintain some semblance of a family life that they don't have time or energy to look too far into the future. Their little free time is taken up in just relaxing or actvities with the children. Some think the politicians will work a way out of this mess. (forgetting who got us into it).
Just some thoughts, I think one could say "all of the above" including the other posters reasons here.
Sliver

[hiyosilver]

I think most of the reasons given here for the complacency are mostly right on. There are a few additional factors that I think are also part of this: Most people haven't experienced true hardship like our depression era parents did, so they don't realize the consequences. Also people are so busy with two jobs and trying to maintain some semblance of a family life that they don't have time or energy to look too far into the future. Their little free time is taken up in just relaxing or actvities with the children. Some think the politicians will work a way out of this mess. (forgetting who got us into it).
Just some thoughts, I think one could say "all of the above" including the other posters reasons here.
Sliver


I believe you're right generally. Then after they lose their job they find out why. But then it's too late to save the day. They need everything they can scrape up to survive. We're in for some terrible times, my friend. The best we can do for them is to try and show them before they lose their jobs and pensions. The best way I've found.....put some silver in their hands....give it to them.....then explain the fundamentals.....then leave it at that....or maybe drop them an article in an email occasionally. Then if they don't get on the boat, it wasn't because you didn't try.

[Sue-Z-Q]

I...........

[LoboNoches]

If you posted it, I didn't catch it....may I ask, how old is your son?....in months if you will.

If he's not yet a year, I have a book I would recommend you read. I'll explain if you're interested.

He will be 6 months old on the 15th

[Sue-Z-Q]

............

[LoboNoches]

Your son is darling. Looks to me like he's gonna grow up to be a 'girl magnet'!

Thanks I wish I knew how to make the avatar picture bigger.Through all the pain my ex has and continues to put me through one thing I can say is we sure did make one beautiful baby.He is about 28 inches tall 20 lbs dark hair like me blue eye like his momma.For all I've done wrong in life I must have done something right :D.Can't wait til he big enough to roll around in a pile of silver:D(nor can I wait to have a pile for him to roll in lol)

[maplesilverbug]

Why do most Americans...still remain in such complete denial and/or complacency of all these facts and the blatant truth right under their noses?

I could write a book on this, but instead, I give you this, the recent CNN.com poll:

Do you agree with Fed chairman Bernanke that the economy is stabilizing?

Yes -- 61%
No -- 39%
(152,179 votes thus far)

It's so past the point of absurdity that it has now entered the hilarious.

[Trvlr45]

Although this topic may have been addressed here before, I would really like to get some insight from all of you on this critical and puzzling phenomena: Why do most Americans, with the evidence of massive political corruption, the decay if not death of any meaningful possibility of political change, the complicity of the corporate media with the financial oligarchy's takeover of this nation, the overwhelming lies and disinformation spread by the powers-that-be in all contrast to the obvious truth, the decine in their standards of living and liberties, the routine usurpation of power by a exponentially metastisizing federal government ----- when all of this is staring them straight in the face, WHY and HOW can and do they still remain in such complete denial and/or complacency of all these facts and the blatant truth right under their noses?

Sometimes I almost feel that my head is literally going to explode, so angry, fustrated and enraged do I feel --- not just at the political and financial establishments, evil as they are, but at all their enablers in the general population! Are we collectively truly THAT stupid and dumb-downed? Is there something in the water that makes them so tuned-out? Have most of us been taken over by alien pod-people?

I have tried and tried to talk to many friends and relatives along these lines, and not one in ten will even begin to truly listen or try to understand. Worse than that, I usually just get the same old bullshit lines: "Enough with all your gloom and doom!" "Oh, things are not that bad --- you're just exaggerating!" "The government is only doing what it thinks is best", blah blah blah, bahhh bahhh bahhhhh.

Am I alone in feeling almost like I am living among aliens, or indifferent slugs who have taken the shape of humans?

Hello AKAK,

It's very simple. it's called "Cognitive Dissonance". Basically when someone see evidence that their world view is warped they can't handle the truth so they block out what is really happening. Therefore, they can then continue on their merry way until the problem affects them.

They simply choose to ignore reality because if they admit there is a problem then they will have to spend time fixing it and they don't want to replace the "wine-tasting club" or the next sports game with reading the Constituion, writing their representatives or reading history.

The majority will wait until it is way too late. IMO, it already is. I have family members who don't even want to speak to me because I was just too much of a reality check for them and I really don't care.

[akak]

Hello AKAK,

The majority will wait until it is way too late. IMO, it already is. I have family members who don't even want to speak to me because I was just too much of a reality check for them and I really don't care.


I sometimes think that I am the president of that club! I have lost at least two friends over this very issue. At a certain point, their willful denial of reality, and complete abdication of responsibility, made me realize that I did not want to associate with them any longer, as painful as that was.

[Trvlr45]

Yes, it is painful but i look at it like this. If my cousin wants to run to the polls to vote someone into office that is going to target me and my paycheck then who's in the wrong? Me for trying to get them to open their eyes or them for hiring a government to screw me? I don't care if it's out of ignorance or for whatever other reason. They screwed me and then don't want to hear about how they did it.

I have a very good friend of mine who didn't want to hear from me for two weeks a while back and now since I got him to listen to the proper outlets for information he's calling ME and complaining about what is going on. I got lucky. I actually got ONE person in my entire life to pay attention.

I know a bartender who just called his Obama loving sister recently and told here he thought he had a sister who loved this country and what it stood for not a sister who believed in Communism, Fascism and Totalitariamism. He has dis-owned her. The friend I just told you about is about ready to do the same thing with his sister and brother-in-law.

There are going to be a whole lot of dumb and blind people who lose family memebers and friends in the future I think. Let them dream like a child. I'll hang out with "realists".

The biggest problem is getting the blind to acknowledge that their favorite party is screwing them and that someone else is pulling the strings of our government.

[Trvlr45]

I sometimes think that I am the president of that club! I have lost at least two friends over this very issue. At a certain point, their willful denial of reality, and complete abdication of responsibility, made me realize that I did not want to associate with them any longer, as painful as that was.


You aren't alone. I don't associate with idiots. It's a shame ignorance is'nt painful and stupid people are allowed to breed.

[theo68]

I agree with much that has been said here, however I'd like to add our education system to our list. Our high schools and universities graduate students who are amazingly adept at repeating what their professors say in their blue books, but are unable to think critically. This means they are less likely to question what they hear in the media. So when you tell them the dollar is likely to collapse it doesn't quite compete with an NYU economist stating confidently on T.V. that inflation will be held in check and the economy should recover in late 2009,

[maplesilverbug]

Why do most Americans...still remain in such complete denial and/or complacency of all these facts and the blatant truth right under their noses?

The short answer?
"You can't handle the truth!"

The long answer?
The American Dream.

I've thought about this a lot before posting, because I don't want to write ranting gibberish. It'll probably end up being that anyway.

It takes a huge amount of energy to change. People may want to change, but when they give a go, well...it just ends up being too much work. It's much easier to sit on the couch and bitch about what is going on rather than get up off the couch, paint up a placard, go downtown, and protest for an hour or two. Or even write a letter to your local representative, or god forbid, the President himself! That would require both physical AND mental strength.

The people of Iceland did it. One day a week. One day a week until both their leader and the head of their central bank both quit. One day a week.

It won't happen in America (or Canada). All our peoples are, yes, complacent. The generations that sacrificed and did all the hard work are gone, replaced by the generations of greed, entitlement, laziness, sloth, entertainment, and envy. The past generations did all the work to build the American Dream; the current generations have turned it into a nightmare.

Then again, it is a Dream -- not truth. The masses do not want truth. They don't want to hear that they have to work until they are 77 for minimum wage. What happened to 'Freedom 55'?! They don't care if 5% of America gets stinking bloated rich, as long as they can have a comfy retirement, cheap food, cheap gas, big cars, big teevees, and BBQs. They don't care if that 5% steals, lies, cheats, kills, and/or rapes to get their riches. As long as the "enablers" see their Citibank stock "soar" 20% a week, all is well. Who cares what ugly Truth lies behind the Dream.

(for the record, I too would LOVE to get a 20% return in a week! But I also believe in something higher than greed and lies. I support Truth; but it's hard to watch an easy 20% slip by knowing it would have made my physical life that much easier.)

The masses want and love the American Dream. To ask any of them to willingly destroy it with their own hands and replace it with Truth could probably be considered treason.

As another poster mentioned, nothing is being done because too much has to be done. The modern masses are busy, busy, busy! Especially if you have children. And a lot of people who have kids use their kids as a reason to cop out of doing what needs to be done.

They are busy but also broke. Think there's anyone out there today who wouldn't get fired if they left their job for a day to go protest in front of a bank or political office? People are just trying to hold their sh*t together with what little they have left. They worry about their immediate surroundings -- family, house, job. Who cares if Mr. AIG gets a fat bonus?! Who cares if some government guy forgot to pay his taxes?! See...laws, Rights, Constitutions, etc. which are broken and violated, but not directly impacting said individual, are quickly and easily dispelled.

Now if Mr. Bernake broke into Mr. and Mrs. American Dream's house at 3am to steal their loot...I bet there would be some immediate and violent actions taken by the tax payers.

Forget trying to "convince" people of the Truth. It's a waste of time and effort better spent on other endeavors -- like trying to stop the Bad Men. Besides, there are people out there who just don't have the capacity to understand what you say.

Even my own dear wife. I have to REALLY dilute things down for her in order not to come off as a lunatic. She still loves to spend, not like there is no tomorrow, but like there will always be a tomorrow that is just like today. I still manage to do what needs to be done.

Yes, darn tootin', it is frustrating and infuriating to see both sides -- the crooks and the sheep. But I FINALLY got it tonight (call me slow if you must!). As someone said in another thread, the banks and government will always be corrupt thieves. They always have been, from the beginning of time. Money and power are synonymous with greed and corruption, always have been, always will be. Accept it and move on. Do your thing. Always ask of yourself, "What kind of country and world do I want to live in?" Then do your best to create it. That's all you can do.

It's bed time so I will leave you with exactly ONE suggested reading:
John Taylor Gatto (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/index.htm)
It will explain a lot as to why America is why it is.
(read his BIO (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/aboutus/john.htm) first!)


*As for the "something in the water" theory...I've read that in 2 gallons of US water, there is the equivalent of one dose of Prozac. Truth or fiction, I know not, but it makes you think...

[hiyosilver]

You aren't alone. I don't associate with idiots. It's a shame ignorance is'nt painful and stupid people are allowed to breed.



It's a good thing forgiveness isn't dependent on people like you. All of humanity would be damned, including you. Reminds me of a comedian back in the '60s...."I can't stand myself no longer"

[Sue-Z-Q]

[..............

[akak]

I loved the Forrest Gump character in the movie - someone who was clearly written in by screenwriters as "a sandwich short of a picnic lunch" but who had true wisdom, whereas some very real people who are card-carrying members of MENSA are too stupid to know that a truly intelligent person doesn't blat about how smart they are. They have enough wisdom to keep their mouths shut - and trust that others can construe on their own that they're pretty dang intelligent by actions, behaviors, and what comes out of their mouths.





How true this is! One thing that I have consistently noticed, here on this forum and on many others, and in real life, is just how unconnected is one's ability to see the reality, rot, and corruption in our society and politico-financial system today from their fundamental level of intelligence. I have run across many people of borderline intelligence who instantly "get it", and many others of otherwise every high intelligence who stubbornly remain in willful denial of reality. This phenomena puzzles and fascinates me.

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

Sometimes I almost feel that my head is literally going to explode, so angry, fustrated and enraged do I feel --- not just at the political and financial establishments, evil as they are, but at all their enablers in the general population!

Control these emotions, you must. Lead you to the Dark Side, they will.

Bunnies, are today's people. Well-fed, they still are. Cheese unmoved, it remains, umm?

When their cheese is moved, lean and angry they will become. Amenable to change they will be.

Understand and watch the cheese, we must. :p

[Longhaul]

You are not alone Akak, most people are blind because they don't want to see the truth and have been lied to sooooooo long that the truth looks like a nightmare with an almost fictional edge. Let's not forget to thank Hollywood for it's roll in this by painting a rosy picture around every storyline.

Hollywood starts the young ones early on the fairytale. My wife and I call it Dysneyfied.

[mountainmurph]

I loved the Forrest Gump character in the movie - someone who was clearly written in by screenwriters as "a sandwich short of a picnic lunch" but who had true wisdom, whereas some very real people who are card-carrying members of MENSA are too stupid to know that a truly intelligent person doesn't blat about how smart they are. They have enough wisdom to keep their mouths shut - and trust that others can construe on their own that they're pretty dang intelligent by actions, behaviors, and what comes out of their mouths



Thats a fact. Its unusual to meet anyone with a particular expertise that feels they have to blow their own horn. When someone is good at something they don't have to tell you. You know.

[Trvlr45]

It's a good thing forgiveness isn't dependent on people like you. All of humanity would be damned, including you. Reminds me of a comedian back in the '60s...."I can't stand myself no longer"

All of humanity was damned for a very long time after the fall of the Roman Empire and this country is doing the same thing the Romans did, the same thing the former Soviet Union did and the same thing England did which sparked the founding of our country.

Most everything can be forgiven but when you blind, stupid, mis-informed or just plain lazy enough to destroy the best country with the most freedom ever devised by mankind because all you think of is yourself I don't believe THAT can be forgiven. We all wouldn't be here on this forum and having to collect silver if it wasn't for the big corrupt government so many seem to love just because they steal from someone who is responsible so they can buy a vote from someone who isn't.

Country comes first because if there is no country there is no ME. Those were noble words on the subject of forgiveness, Hyo. Just not very realistic.

[Trvlr45]

I agree with much that has been said here, however I'd like to add our education system to our list. Our high schools and universities graduate students who are amazingly adept at repeating what their professors say in their blue books, but are unable to think critically. This means they are less likely to question what they hear in the media. So when you tell them the dollar is likely to collapse it doesn't quite compete with an NYU economist stating confidently on T.V. that inflation will be held in check and the economy should recover in late 2009,

I agree 150%, Theo. the dumbing down of America is complete. Charlotte Iserbyt's book, "The Intentional Dumbing Down of America" explains exactly how they did it. Now, because of it we have a "President" running around telling everyone that the Constitution is flawed because it doesn't have anything in there that says what the government CAN do (to you) instead of what it CAN"T do (to you).

[Trvlr45]

You are not alone Akak, most people are blind because they don't want to see the truth and have been lied to sooooooo long that the truth looks like a nightmare with an almost fictional edge. Let's not forget to thank Hollywood for it's roll in this by painting a rosy picture around every storyline.

Hollywood starts the young ones early on the fairytale. My wife and I call it Dysneyfied.

Yep! You hit that one right out of the ballpark, Longhaul. Communism was in Hollywood way back in the 30's with Leo Penn, Shawn Penn's father (and others). That is one of their tactics. Make everyone believe they can fulfill your dreams. All they need is your paycheck and your freedom. They just don't tell you that part of the dream.

[maplesilverbug]

I agree 150%, Theo. the dumbing down of America is complete. Charlotte Iserbyt's book, "The Intentional Dumbing Down of America" explains exactly how they did it. Now, because of it we have a "President" running around telling everyone that the Constitution is flawed because it doesn't have anything in there that says what the government CAN do (to you) instead of what it CAN"T do (to you).

As well, check out John Taylor Gatto's books (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/bookstore/index.htm#form) on the "education" system. It really is frightening when you take a big-picture view and piece the puzzle together. A corporate country and its government need a mass of common people, what better way to start than in Grade 1. There is a huge difference between education and intelligence.

Not sure what it's like in the States, but up here in Canada...why does it take four years of university/college to get a degree in almost EVERY field? Four years of "education" for everything -- from an Art degree to a Zoology degree and everything in between.

If it smells fishy...

[Longhaul]

Yes the dumbing down starts early with our history books. Goes like this.......hey kids, these folks over in Europe thought the world was FLAT:rolleyes:(lie), so they had to go check it out and ran into Plymouth Rock (lie). Then they ran into these savage Natives and thought it was best for humanity to kill most of them, then round the rest up on reservations for the good of us (lie). So let's have Thanksgiving now shall we?

By the time you are in 5th grade here in America we have been told so many lies about "history", one needs to have a sharp knife handy to cut our way out of the thick wool blanket that has been thrown over us "sheltering" (for our own good) us from reality.

I asked one question in 5th grade and got ridiculed big time for it. I asked what year the people in B.C times called it before our current time line began. What significant event happened before Jesus to base a time line off, and what event before that was the prior event etc????????????? When I pulled my finger out of that wall, light shown through, now the wall is down.

Fact is, time was never represented in a linear fashion B.C., it was always cyclic. The current time line has drawn us away from who we are and out away from our real connection to reality. This is the time MATRIX most are hoodwinked by.

So the question is, what time is it.......really?

The answer to Akak's question is people are sooooo blind because we were never taught to see because the gig would then be up!

[Trvlr45]

As well, check out John Taylor Gatto's books (http://www.johntaylorgatto.com/bookstore/index.htm#form) on the "education" system. It really is frightening when you take a big-picture view and piece the puzzle together. A corporate country and its government need a mass of common people, what better way to start than in Grade 1. There is a huge difference between education and intelligence.

Not sure what it's like in the States, but up here in Canada...why does it take four years of university/college to get a degree in almost EVERY field? Four years of "education" for everything -- from an Art degree to a Zoology degree and everything in between.

If it smells fishy...

It IS fishy. The vast majority of time in college, I would guess since I never went is spent indoctrinating, not teaching the kids. The want them to know only what they want them to know. I had a friend of mine that went to college who showed me some of the garbage they teach in "Social Studies" which was the replacement for History. We sure don't want anyone know anything about history, do we? They might not repeat it.

[TheLoneRanger]

Folks got a right to live the way they want .. to the best of their abilities.. and they have the right to profit from their wisdom and suffer for their mistakes... If this means living in denial.. so be it.. nothing to get mad about.

I fight with denial a couple times a week.. I catch myelf getting "Happy I am Right" about the failing economy and coming armeggedon .. and I ask myself .. "how sick is that?" I catch myself thinking.. ehh maybe it will all work out.. I'm prepin' for nothing, or I'm way over preping.. buy the boat... take a vacation.. .. but then... the little voice says " are you admiting you are WRONG?".. well .. truth be told If it means the world doesn't colapse into a great depression, possibly a Dark Age.. a Post Apocaliptic Mad Max world ... being wrong this once wouldn't be so bad... Would it? What? ME WRONG!?! no way.. I know the true truth!

Then there is the dreams of silver going to 100....200... Butler and Izzy's silver more precious than gold....and dreams of wealth and avarice beyond fantasy.. ehh so the world falls a part and slips into chaos..

(Actually I think the market cap on silver bullion is small enough we can go to 200 and still have most the world not notice.. but thats me)

Folks will get it when they get it.. I'm doing better than most of y'all apparently... I've gone from crazy woman to guru and back and then back again with a couple dozen friends and family.

Where I am really going to differ with most the folks here is on the public education thing... it ain't the schools fault.. and it ain't the guns fault.. and it ain't the goverments fault and it ain't the bankers fault.. it's all on the individual.. pure and simple.
There is teaching and there is learning .. never confuse the two what they teach is not exactly what is learned... what is learned (disasteriously unfortunately) is that it is somebody elses responsibiity to teach you/them/the kids and not that it is the individuals responsibility to learn what they want to know.. the truth IS out there.. on every subject.. somewhere.. and with the internet we need only look and with a passion read past the headline or topic line.. what's dumbed down for some is way to fast and advanced for others.. the public education system by necessity has to aim for the lowest common denominator.. for several reasons.. everybody needs to be able to read and do simple math and have some very basic and fundamental understanding of the rules and structure of society.. anything more than that has got to come from some deep seated passion to know every detail of the lives of the snail species living on the Island of Broato or the flight feather arrangement of the Lesser Speckled Warbler or the production numbers and variants of the Mosin Nagant or the silver market or that economics is a philosophy and not a math thingy...
Never give a kid or a friend the excuse of a lousy education system to fall back on.. make them think it's all on them to learn what they WANT to know or what makes them curious.. and just because YOU want to specalize in predicting economic disasters doesn't mean they have to want to know the same.. we need somebody to understand , in depth and detail the lives of those snails on the Island of Borato.
Think about this for a minute.. if everybody's kid is taught everything they need to know.. how in the heck is your brighter than average better looking than average kid going to get an advantage thru your exceptonal parenting and guidance?... can't happen if everybody has a superior education.

Of course.. if you truely have your preps squared away you should be calm and unflappable in the face of disaster.. if you are calm and inflappable as disaster looms.. folks will notice and want your wisdom... and then and only then can you be wise in their eyes... they will become blind to your craziness an see your wisdom.. just as they had been blind to your wisdom and could see your craziness before..

[maplesilverbug]

Where I am really going to differ with most the folks here is on the public education thing... it's all on the individual.. pure and simple.

True enough, but like everything, if the "establishment" makes failing so confoundedly easy to do... We aren't talking about 30 and 40somethings in school, we are talking children. Children who need guidance and support exactly because they are still learning and not "old enough to know better". Where is the wisdom from above to help those who truly do not have wisdom? Children cannot make wise choices because they aren't old enough to be wise yet! They can't make educated decisions if they aren't allowed a chance at attaining a basic quality education.

I know a handful of teachers, from retired to first-years, and they all say the education system is a disaster and a disgrace. Teachers are now nothing more than neutered babysitters. It's the system and its administrators who make it so very easy for children to drift through their education without ever getting one. Hell, I spent some time in college and university and found out very quickly how much of a sham even "higher" education is! Education does not equal intelligence by any means.

It would be good of the "suits" to remember that children truly are the future of the planet, and for them to "stupid down" the education system so everyone can be "equal" is nothing less than a death blow to all. It's public school, what kind of public do we want to produce?

As an answer to the thread, not so sure people are "so blind" as much as they are "so uneducated". They were never cultivated to think, so they just don't. And that makes for easily entertain-able (and controllable) masses.

In the immortal words of Emerson, "Self-reliance".

[TheLoneRanger]

Well .. I think it's the parents that raise and educate the kids and give them the very support , wisdom , and guidance you are concerned about. I'ved raise two and I am helping with 3 grandkids... both my kids managed to get thru Post Grad and have profesional carrers.. but then they went to silvan and other outside of public school learning enviroments and had to do a lot of book reports for me.. as well as get black belts and qualify for conceal carry and learn interior decorating and write Hiaku and wildcraft a balanced meal and trap a squirrel and cook a gourmet meal, balance a bank account, what money really is and how to make money work and earn their own money for college and have a job by 15 when I cut off their allowances. ( I did pay off all their student loans... but only after they graduated and they didn't know I was going to do that).
I counted on the public schools precisely to provide a mediocre education to their peers and competiitors.

If you know the faults of the world. or public education, or whatever, you use that to your ( and yours) advantage and you teach your kids to do the same... not to take unfair advantage of other people, but to take full advantage of the system, faults and all.
Maybe it just works for me and is different for other parents.. I don't know

[Ancona]

I pulled my daughter out of the public babysitting asylum before her mind was too polluted to recover. She goes to a small, private Christian school where they are taught about government, the constitution, civics, ethics, mathematics, reading, English, science, art, PE and Bible.

Children are not permitted to wear "hip hop" clothing, jewelry, hair coloring, nose rings, eye-lid rings etc. If you break the rules, you are thrown out. Period. The school administrators have a zero tolerance policy for fighting, swearing, bullying, "thuggery", "gangsterism" and all of the associated nonsense we are forced to allow to occur in the public babysitting system. Rap "music" is forbidden and will also result in immediate expulsion. They are taught to give respect to teachers and their fellow students. They are taught teamwork, and that in every contest there is a winner and a loser. They are taught to both win and lose with grace.

My daughter has become a very well mannered, respectful young lady in the three years she has attended. This school does not have a lap-top for every student, and they are not given lessons in "social studies". History is taught without revision.

It is my opinion that the liberal left has so completely perverted the system as to make it a complete failure. My daughter is learning at a level established for her grade that exceeds public school requirements by a full grade year and a quarter.

Without the need to waste half of their time on unruly, misbehaving children and trouble-makers, her teachers have more time to concentrate on teaching.

I recently attended my daughters seventh grade "graduation" picnic. It was an absolute pleasure to be around all of the children from this school. The sixth, seventh and eight grades were there, and comprised only 22 students in total. These kids were the single most well behaved kids I had ever seen in a group before.

Any of you who have the means will do your kids a favor and yank them out of public school as quickly as you can, and place them in a small, local private school. The indoctrination these poor kids receive there is an abomination. Now they are teaching "trans-gender acceptance" in social studies at our public schools here.

What a freaking tragedy.

[TheLoneRanger]

Ancona I'm gay.. lesbian acutually so I can't let the anti gay remark just pass.. nobody learns respect for anybody if they don't learn respect for everybody. when they learn some folks are targets to be freely hated and disrespected they learn that respecting the humanity of others is conditional on nothing more than a lable.. being trans is a medical condition cured by medical procedure, nobody asks to be trans it makes life a lot harder than it has to be and because it is connected with the genitalia and gender idenity folks who do not understand inculding those in the medical establishment make treating the condition harder than it needs to be.

But thats all beside the point.. kids are either taught to respect people and judge them for the content of their character.. or they are taught to despise and hate and to not respect the humanity of one group or the other.. kids know no middle ground and they grow up and take those attitudes into adult life.

I cannot believe that you would rather your child be taught to hate or despise a group of people rather than be taught to respect the common humanity of all of us.

It's a matter of life or death for trans kids.. who often know they are different at a very young age, only lacking the concepts and vocabulary to express their pain ( dysphoria) thus they have trouble fitting in to an acceptabe gender role .. but it does make them targets for bullying and a suicide rate about 5 times that of the general population.

I can see no wrong or harm for any child to be taught tolerance for all peoples , at least by lable or category... individual ( anti social) behavior is another matter.. but a child, a teenager, acting in a inate way but opposite of their bilogical gender because something caused the brain to develope and get hardwired as the other gender is not harming anybody. Nobody knows exactly why it happens.. but there are genetic and indoctrinal system clues in all cases and clear cut genetic abnormality in some and hardwire hormonal abnormalities in others, out right genital ambiguity in yet others lack of genitalia in a few , and even rarer complete genitalia of both genders. Those are medical conditions, No medical condition is worthy of hating the person living with the condition.

Think about this.. you seem religious.. pray about what group you would rather your child grow up hating because they were taught to not be tolerant.. or if you would have your child respect and be tolerant of all peoples at least until they had personalized individual reason to not respect them.. I don't think simply being different is sufficent reason.

[Ancona]

Ranger,
I said nothing about acceptance, hate, targeting gays or anthing else negative about transgendered people. Where exactly in my post did you read that I would rather my child be taught to hate anyone?

I am pointing out that the public school system has taken on the role of nanny and wastes a significant amount of time teaching everything but reading writing and arithmetic. We are pumping out dumbed down kids who are force fed the morals and values of a minority viewpoint. Morals and values should be left to the family, and should be excluded from the schools. Our public schools are supposed to exist to teach our kids fundamental skills to survive in the world.

For precisely the same reason my daughter was forbidden to pray in public school, I prefer not to have her forced to identify with a viewpoint with which I disagree. As an aside, I do not coach my kid either way, preferring to allow her the space to generate her own opinions through experience.

I do not form opinions of people based upon ethnicity, nationality or sexual preferrence. I do however, object to the government forcing what I believe to be a moral judgement on my child. I am neither anti gay, nor a supporter of the gay movement, I am ambivalent.

Please do not write ideas in between my sentences that I do not intend to be there. I have never disparaged any group of people in any of my writings on this site [with the exception of the scumbag asshole banking elites and their puppet masters] and will not do so in the future.

On sensitive topics, I typically keep my opinions to myself, because political correctness has removed my right to have an opposing opinion to that of the government and any of a myriad of special interests.

My child is taught to respect everyone, until they do something to lose that respect, but the idea of sexually indoctrinating children in the fifth, sixth and seventh grade is ludicrous. These children have not yet even entered puberty, and the government wants to bombard them with alternative sexual lifestyle information that they cannot possibly properly process. Where is the wisdom there??

[TheLoneRanger]

Ancona.. if I misread you I am relieved... but surely you can see how that might happen given this part of your post.

"Any of you who have the means will do your kids a favor and yank them out of public school as quickly as you can, and place them in a small, local private school. The indoctrination these poor kids receive there is an abomination. Now they are teaching "trans-gender acceptance" in social studies at our public schools here.

What a freaking tragedy."

The terms indoctrination, abomination, and freaking tragedy with "trans-gender acceptance" being the only example and/or perhaps the most extreme example among many unmentioned.. could be seen as perjorative by a reasonable person.

I know this is terriibly off topic, but I have lost my patience with GLBT folks who live in the closet and remain quiet while their rights are striped away or denied solely because of their own lack of courage and silence. Thus I am obligated to live up to my own standards by confronting comments I see as perjorative and then attempting to spread a little education and light.. inconvienent as it may be for myself.

I promise not to annoy anybody with my attenpts to spread harmony if nobody disses the GLBT... unless of course it is about how terrible it is so many lack the courage to come out of the closet...


we now return to our regular programing.

[Ancona]

Public school in the U.S. is in my eyes an abomination. It has regressed to a point that defies explanation. It has become a virtual lock-down in many places, and there are plenty of schools that have installed metal detectors and have regular shake-downs of students.

Students who wore political messages on t-shirts during the presidential election were sent home from school, lest they "hurt someone's feelings". Our kids need to grow that extra layer of skin, and recognize that the people who surround them may have something to say that they don't like.

Indoctrination? Yes. Our children are being indoctrinated into the governmental line every day that they attend school. It is less and less about learning and more and more about things completely unrelated to basic education. My child wasted three months on F-CAT "prep" lessons which made her so nervous she actually threw up on a number of occasions. Instead of teaching the kids, they teach them to pass that test. It is, in my opinion, a monumental waste of young brain-power. In mi kids private school, they are not under the F-CAT mandate, and free to properly educate my kid. No governmental interference, no "resource officer" [read: cop], no bully awareness courses [like the kids can't identify a fucking bully].

Am I bitter?? Hell yes I'm bitter. I am paying twice for my daughter's education, because the state can't seem to handle it. They spend more time coddling thugs and scumbags whose parents could care less, than they do educating children.

[TheLoneRanger]

Like I said..I am more than familiar with the ills of public schools.. and I augmented my childrens education so they would have a much better education and understanding of the world than their peers had.. giving my children a tangible advantage in life.. and it has paid off... had public schools been even adequate, much less outstanding, I could not have given my kids that advantage given my income at the time.
I wish the schools were better, but at the same time I am glad the public schools failings allowed me to give my kids such an overwhelming advantage in life.

I strongly recomend that, instead of bemoaning what apparently can't be fixed, that verybody that cares to give their kids an advantage understand the public schools ca't educate and just go ahead and educate your own kids anyway you can , by hook or crook.

[maplesilverbug]

The school administrators have a zero tolerance policy for fighting, swearing, bullying, "thuggery", "gangsterism" and all of the associated nonsense we are forced to allow to occur in the public babysitting system.

Why bother? Take a look at the "cream of the crop" within corporate America and the greater swath of government -- all of those "zero tolerance" traits (and "associated nonsense") run amok and have been well-rewarded for decades!

Oh so much to say about all of this (esp. re: rap & bible), but I'll stick to this one.

It all works out in the end, one way or another.

[Ancona]

Please do not mistake my choice of private schools for my personal spiritual convictions. I chose this school for their academic profile and through good old fashioned word of mouth. The school does not advertise, nor do they recruit. The administrators started out with the same level of disdain for the public system as I did. They gathered a significant stash of seed money and started teaching children five and six at a time.

Their close attention to morality, ethics, respect, academics and intelligent choice making were the magnet for me. The bible study? Well.......I figure a little "churching-up" won't hurt my daughter any.

Regarding zero tolerance, I agree that it has indeed run amok, but only because of the public school systems failure to evenly apply it. You have kids getting suspended for having a tylenol in their pocket, but the schools cannot expel the thugs from the system. The violence that went on at my daughters grade school, would never have been allowed to occur in my youth. The system has been perverted, and there is no repairing it.

As for "rap music", the garbage I hear at 130 decibels against my will at nearly every gas station, going down the road and in my neighborhood is enough to curdle my blood. Ever actually listen to the "lyrics"???

Most of the stuff I hear is violent, misogynistic, racist, hateful excrement. The glorification of gangster lifestyle, mistreatment of women across the board and thuggery is absolutely infuriating and goes completely against the grain of what I want for my family. I cannot imagine allowing a child to poison their psyche with this mindless hatred.

[maplesilverbug]

The system has been perverted, and there is no repairing it.

And not just the education system...

As for "rap music", the garbage I hear at 130 decibels against my will at nearly every gas station, going down the road and in my neighborhood is enough to curdle my blood.

I'm guessing most things in American life are done "against your will" (i.e. gov't and corporate raping and pillaging). I'm sure these things have and will continue to have a far more profound (and negative?) impact on you and your families life than some wanna-be gangster rapper and his lyrics.

Anyway...

[Ancona]

And not just the education system...



I'm guessing most things in American life are done "against your will" (i.e. gov't and corporate raping and pillaging). I'm sure these things have and will continue to have a far more profound (and negative?) impact on you and your families life than some wanna-be gangster rapper and his lyrics.

Anyway...

Maple,
It is not necessarily the "against my will" part that worries me as it is the content, and societies willingness to accept this as "art" instead of the hatred that it clearly is. I do not mean to slam all 'hip-hop' by any means. I have indeed listened to some Christian 'hip-hop' that was.......interesting. I am slamming the other 88% of the poison out there, glorifying drugs, forcible sex, murder of 'whitey', murder of the "po-po" [police?] and so on. This should not be looked on favorably by anyone.

I am a hard core constitutionalist, and believe in the right of the People to say whatever they wish to say, but I am against the direct marketing of this material to children.

My 14 year old daughter is old enough to understand right from wrong, but her young age, I cannot expect her to understand that "beatin' down my bitches" and "cap the po-po" is just "artistic expression", therefore, she is forbidden to listen to it.

She understands that when she reaches the age of choice, which will be whatever year she no longer lives under my roof, she may do exactly as she wants. Thankfully, she has been exposed to this misogynistic hatred and is just as appalled by it as myself and my wife.......for that matter, just about every single person I know.

[maplesilverbug]

Okay....back to the thread topic.

I say the reason "most people are so blind" is because silver is just soooo darn shiny that most can't bear to sneak a peek, let alone stare!

[SeekrBrnEvryMin]

I strongly recomend that, instead of bemoaning what apparently can't be fixed, that verybody that cares to give their kids an advantage understand the public schools ca't educate and just go ahead and educate your own kids anyway you can , by hook or crook.

On the contrary.

The inability of many public schools to teach isn't a problem that can't be fixed.

The inability of many parents to raise children with sufficient discipline to be able to be taught in a reasonably well-adjusted environment, however, kicks the can to the end of the line.

And, for the record, fifth and sixth grade, or, if you will, elementary school and the year succeeding, is not the time to be teaching transgender issues. Sexual issues are taught in sex education. If my child is subject to sex education classes in elementary school, I'll file an injuction and go from there.

[Trvlr45]

[QUOTE=Ancona;61527]I pulled my daughter out of the public babysitting asylum before her mind was too polluted to recover. She goes to a small, private Christian school where they are taught about government, the constitution, civics, ethics, mathematics, reading, English, science, art, PE and Bible.

Children are not permitted to wear "hip hop" clothing, jewelry, hair coloring, nose rings, eye-lid rings etc. If you break the rules, you are thrown out. Period. The school administrators have a zero tolerance policy for fighting, swearing, bullying, "thuggery", "gangsterism" and all of the associated nonsense we are forced to allow to occur in the public babysitting system. Rap "music" is forbidden and will also result in immediate expulsion. They are taught to give respect to teachers and their fellow students. They are taught teamwork, and that in every contest there is a winner and a loser. They are taught to both win and lose with grace.

My daughter has become a very well mannered, respectful young lady in the three years she has attended. This school does not have a lap-top for every student, and they are not given lessons in "social studies". History is taught without revision.

It is my opinion that the liberal left has so completely perverted the system as to make it a complete failure. My daughter is learning at a level established for her grade that exceeds public school requirements by a full grade year and a quarter.

Without the need to waste half of their time on unruly, misbehaving children and trouble-makers, her teachers have more time to concentrate on teaching.

I recently attended my daughters seventh grade "graduation" picnic. It was an absolute pleasure to be around all of the children from this school. The sixth, seventh and eight grades were there, and comprised only 22 students in total. These kids were the single most well behaved kids I had ever seen in a group before.

Any of you who have the means will do your kids a favor and yank them out of public school as quickly as you can, and place them in a small, local private school. The indoctrination these poor kids receive there is an abomination. Now they are teaching "trans-gender acceptance" in social studies at our public schools here.

What a freaking tragedy.

I've run into a few parents like you and I'm happy to hear about one more. Thanks for doing your part to save our country.

[Ancona]

Right on Trvlr45......right on.

[Mylläri]

It is my opinion that the liberal left has so completely perverted the system as to make it a complete failure. My daughter is learning at a level established for her grade that exceeds public school requirements by a full grade year and a quarter.

Wasn't it George W. Bush (Republican) who pushed No Child Left Behind? I wouldn't exactly classify him as "liberal left." That is easily the most destructive action that has come against the education system in America so long as I've been alive. Or would this just be wrote off as a Progressive-Liberal moment by Dubya vis-a-vis his Medicare act?

Just curious, I'm getting tired of both sides simply lumping all of America's problems on their opposition. Aside from that I agree with your opinions on this matter.

[fullsafe]

I think if you will study GW's first education bill and Ted Kennedy's you will see they are effectively the same thing. GW's mistake was thinking he could follow Clinton's act of concilliation with the opposite party to build harmony and bi-partisan legislation. GW should have simply vetoed all Title 1 spending and joined the fray with the Dems right off the bat. Instead he found it easier to compromise and give in and the trend didn't end for 8 years when it came to government spending. No Child was Teddies folly and GW didn't have the sense to put it out of it's misery. The only good part could have been vouchers but GW conceded on that 'get along'.

[Ancona]

The problems in our education system were created over thirty five years and are largely a result of ultra liberal policy decisions and republican heavy-handed mandates. Throw in tenure and you have the perfect mix for ruination.

California is trying to [has already??] outlaw home-schooling. The one practice that nearly guarantees a superior education of a child and the instilling of a good set of morals and values at the same time, and California has to fuck it up.

Many home schooled kids actually do a couple of days "desk time" in regular school settings here and there, and the consensus is that they are nearly always more advanced in their studies than their counterparts are [in the public system]

When the breakdown comes....and it will, we will see a resurgence of home schooling, as a result of cliff diving revenues along with crumbling buildings which will chase responsible parents and their kids away.

[silverbuyer]

Although this topic may have been addressed here before, I would really like to get some insight from all of you on this critical and puzzling phenomena: Why do most Americans, with the evidence of massive political corruption, the decay if not death of any meaningful possibility of political change, the complicity of the corporate media with the financial oligarchy's takeover of this nation, the overwhelming lies and disinformation spread by the powers-that-be in all contrast to the obvious truth, the decine in their standards of living and liberties, the routine usurpation of power by a exponentially metastisizing federal government ----- when all of this is staring them straight in the face, WHY and HOW can and do they still remain in such complete denial and/or complacency of all these facts and the blatant truth right under their noses?

Sometimes I almost feel that my head is literally going to explode, so angry, fustrated and enraged do I feel --- not just at the political and financial establishments, evil as they are, but at all their enablers in the general population! Are we collectively truly THAT stupid and dumb-downed? Is there something in the water that makes them so tuned-out? Have most of us been taken over by alien pod-people?

I have tried and tried to talk to many friends and relatives along these lines, and not one in ten will even begin to truly listen or try to understand. Worse than that, I usually just get the same old bullshit lines: "Enough with all your gloom and doom!" "Oh, things are not that bad --- you're just exaggerating!" "The government is only doing what it thinks is best", blah blah blah, bahhh bahhh bahhhhh.

Am I alone in feeling almost like I am living among aliens, or indifferent slugs who have taken the shape of humans?

Answer: TV

[Trvlr45]

Wasn't it George W. Bush (Republican) who pushed No Child Left Behind? I wouldn't exactly classify him as "liberal left." That is easily the most destructive action that has come against the education system in America so long as I've been alive. Or would this just be wrote off as a Progressive-Liberal moment by Dubya vis-a-vis his Medicare act?

Just curious, I'm getting tired of both sides simply lumping all of America's problems on their opposition. Aside from that I agree with your opinions on this matter.

Hello Myllari,

The above quote wasn't mine. I was just agreeing with what Ancona said. BOTH parties have ruined our education system as "No Child Left Behind" proves. However, the left has been FAR more detrimental to this country socially than the right ever has.

The right just capitalizes on the stupidity and the juvenile deliquincy of the left. "Juvenile" actually gives the left the benefit of the doubt since most that support left-leaning (Communist) policies actually have the minds of pre-schoolers.

Their way of thinking is, "My Mommy and Daddy aren't around anymore so the government should hold my hand".

[maplesilverbug]

Yeah, well...I work for the government and my boss is racist.

Not sure what that has to do with anything, just thought I would mention it.
I'll assume he is one of the "so blind".

[Trvlr45]

I really don't think there is such a thing as "Racism" in this country anymore with the exception of a VERY small minority. Racism was pretty much done away with by the 80's. But it's still a big money maker.

The fact of the matter is that it is the BEHAVIOR of certain groups of people that attract animosity from the masses. The government just keeps the "race" issue strried up through the mainsteam media for the divisive action they need for their agenda.

The fact of the matter is that the loudest voices screaming "Racism" are the most racist, biggoted, American hating pieces of #$@! this country has to offer. Without government meddling and media propoganda I think everyone would get along just fine.

It's a scam just like Feminism, Global Warming, Foriegn Aid, The War on Drugs "A Strong Dollar policy", Social Security, Nationalized Health Care, the IRS and every other lie they have stuffed down our throats.

They get richer and more powerful while we (irregardless of color) get poorer or stay poor. Foriegn aid and welfare haven't done shit for anybody $7 trillion and 70 years later and they never will.

[Gen Ripper]

3 points on education:

1. Some kids are stupid. If we could just admit that? Then we could help the dumb kids and the smart ones alike.

2. Some teachers are BAD. There are bad plumbers,doctors,mechanics and parents. How come you never hear about bad teachers? Programs that test kids are there to tell us which kids are stupid and deserve our help. BUT dont forget, programs that test kids are also there to tell us which teachers are BAD. The great thing about bad teachers is the fact that we dont need to help them. Just get rid of them.

3. You have the right to fail. Lets accept this as reality. Every one deserves a chance to go to collage, but not every one deserves to go to collage. I learned this in 5th grade, the teacher had a giant banner that said "You have the right to fail, Grow up or else".

[Mylläri]

An interesting article:

What Makes Finnish Kids So Smart? (Wall Street Journal)
Date Posted: 02/29/2008

Finland's teens score extraordinarily high on an international test. American educators are trying to figure out why.
By ELLEN GAMERMAN

Helsinki, Finland

High-school students here rarely get more than a half-hour of homework a night. They have no school uniforms, no honor societies, no valedictorians, no tardy bells and no classes for the gifted. There is little standardized testing, few parents agonize over college and kids don't start school until age 7.

Yet by one international measure, Finnish teenagers are among the smartest in the world. They earned some of the top scores by 15-year-old students who were tested in 57 countries. American teens finished among the world's C students even as U.S. educators piled on more homework, standards and rules. Finnish youth, like their U.S. counterparts, also waste hours online. They dye their hair, love sarcasm and listen to rap and heavy metal. But by ninth grade they're way ahead in math, science and reading -- on track to keeping Finns among the world's most productive workers.

The Finns won attention with their performances in triennial tests sponsored by the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, a group funded by 30 countries that monitors social and economic trends. In the most recent test, which focused on science, Finland's students placed first in science and near the top in math and reading, according to results released late last year. An unofficial tally of Finland's combined scores puts it in first place overall, says Andreas Schleicher, who directs the OECD's test, known as the Programme for International Student Assessment, or PISA. The U.S. placed in the middle of the pack in math and science; its reading scores were tossed because of a glitch. About 400,000 students around the world answered multiple-choice questions and essays on the test that measured critical thinking and the application of knowledge. A typical subject: Discuss the artistic value of graffiti.

Read more at: http://www.sanders.senate.gov/news/record.cfm?id=295091

Not everyone is going to be smart and not everyone will be able to conform to our education system in order to excel. I did well in school until the 7th grade, prior to that I was always among the top students in my class. I just stopped giving a shit but in high school I remember one time I was failing French class. I put forth some serious effort after the first semester and ended up having the top grade average at the end of second semester. I was extremely capable (and still am) but never applied myself in primary school unless absolutely necessary.

I think the problem is our system and the fact that most schools typically base a student on thier test-taking skills versus their academic capabilities and intellectual capacity otherwise. They want to mold you in their image rather than building on your strengths and improving on your weaknesses.

[maplesilverbug]

Public schools are built for the average, because that's where the most people are (the big bulge in the middle).

You build MIT's etc for the sharp-end-of-the-stick kids, and you invent 2-year "certificates" for the dumb kids. The bulge people fill in the rest. Sad fact is that a lot of ignorant and/or bulgy types make it into the higher-up positions because they are the best at kissing ass and displaying other lowly traits when the bright people just can't be bothered to fight amongst the crowd for the "big piece of meat". So the bright people end up squirreled away some where doing stuff that makes society a better place, while the rest of us use and abuse it. (Like my racist boss. Anyone have an extra shiv?)

End of story.

You can make up whatever facts you want, but where you are is where you are. Period.

Just wish I could go back to good ol' grade 1 and do it all over again!
I'd take a lot more kickboxing lessons this time 'round...and use 'em even more!

[Trvlr45]

You make a LOT of very valid points, Maple. I know exactly what you mean about fighting over "the big piece of meat". I've never wanted to bother with that type of garbage.

Working in the government you see the butt-snorkling and fighting over the big piece of meat even more I would think since the vast majority of government jobs shouldn't even exist to begin with.

They have way to many employees where they don't need them and in most cases too many where they actually do need them as well. Case in point. This country doesn't need 16 or 17 "security agencies" unless what they are doing is un-cionstitutional.

I reaaly would like to know the deal with your "racist boss" but I can see that opening up a can of worms on the forum. Since you work for the gov I can only imagine since the government itself is one huge biggoted organization who picks and chooses who should have what. LOL.

[maplesilverbug]

Ha! So get this....the government for which I work has said because of the current economic conditions that no public service employee (of which I am one <shudder> ) will be getting a raise within the next year (365 days). So what do they, the most awesome-est government ever, do? They give out raises across the board the DAY BEFORE the budget comes out! Ha!

And these aren't just skimpy raises either. I received a 7.5% raise and I'm pretty bottom-rungy. I can just imagine what the a-holes with offices and secretaries got.

Whoopee! Sure, I'm making more money now, but I'm also going to have to pay a lot more in taxes for everyone else's raises too! I wonder if this fiscal fact will be reported and made public? Why are politicians so effin' slimy!?!

Guess that just means 7.5% more silver for my booty!