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View Full Version : Your stories of you Selling Silver during a Peak.



silverbuyer
22nd April 2009, 20:42
Might be instructional to hear some success stories with exact numbers and facts from those members who made money from silver.

valerb
22nd April 2009, 22:03
Might be instructional to hear some success stories with exact numbers and facts from those members who made money from silver.

It might also be interesting information for someone from the IRS!!!!

hiyosilver
23rd April 2009, 01:00
I sold all of mine....and lost a bundle......

Bullitt
23rd April 2009, 01:40
Buried mine for safety, just not sure where. Am now saving for a metal detector LOL

Cup-of-Ruin
23rd April 2009, 03:12
Silver hasn't peaked, why would anybody even want to sell a single ounce, if people are silly enough to exchange few worthless dollars for pure refined silver, great, all the more for me!

maplesilverbug
23rd April 2009, 09:17
I've never sold any but I do know someone who has:

Bought 6 100-oz bars in 2001 (after 9/11) for C$4000; sold in 2003 for C$9000, 125% profit.

Silver is approx. 15% higher today than when he sold six years ago. He traded silver for profit and he got it.

mellows
23rd April 2009, 11:07
I've never sold and I don't plan on selling for a bit!

Steadfast
23rd April 2009, 11:12
Here are a few questions...

Sooooo, when silver goes upto $60 an Oz. (or more) while society is struggling and crime is up.

How, where, and to whom, should we sell off any large amounts we may have aquired over the years?

What is the best way to unload the physical pounds of silver some here may own?
Is there a company out there who will buy that much, and not at a "rip-off price"?
Do we in the USA need to drive it to NYC?

and when we do sell,
Should we convert it into gold or cash?

("we" being all of us.)
because I may own only one coin...or not....

LoboNoches
23rd April 2009, 11:18
Here is a question...

Sooooo, when silver goes upto $60 an Oz. (or more) while society is struggling and crime is up.

How, where, and to whom, should we sell off any large amounts we may have aquired over the years?

What is the best way to unload the physical pounds of silver some here may own?
Is there a company outthere who will buy that much?
Do we drive it to NYC?

and when we do sell,
Should we convert it into gold or cash?

("we" being all of us.)
because I may own only one coin...

I say take it all to Ireland sell it to the Leprechauns for land and red heads :)

Steadfast
23rd April 2009, 11:22
I say take it all to Ireland sell it to the Leprechauns for land and red heads :)

Ha ha ha... too funny...

No, seriously... Having something to sell, means nothing without a buyer!

LoboNoches
23rd April 2009, 11:30
Ha ha ha... too funny...

No, seriously... Having something to sell, means nothing without a buyer!

True.Maybe I'm young and nieve but I believe there will always be a buyer somewhere especially since almost everything made has some form of silver in it or in the products that make it

mellows
23rd April 2009, 11:37
I love red heads and silver!

Steadfast
23rd April 2009, 11:37
"Aways a buyer?" not if the economy is so bad that milk costs $10/gallon....

Seriously, does anyone here have an exit strategy when the time comes to sell...?
Becuase I would like to have one in place, that is better than "driving around" to the local coin shops,
during a possible time when matial law is in place and there are thugs with guns in the streets...


Here are a few questions...

Sooooo, when silver goes upto $60 an Oz. (or more) while society is struggling and crime is up.

How, where, and to whom, should we sell off any large amounts we may have aquired over the years?

What is the best way to unload the physical pounds of silver some here may own?
Is there a company out there who will buy that much, and not at a "rip-off price"?
Do we in the USA need to drive it to NYC?

and when we do sell,
Should we convert it into gold or cash?

("we" being all of us.)
because I may own only one coin...or not....

seriously,
How are the folks here, with more then say a hypothetical 5000 oz. phyical, or much more, planning to physically sell it,
without getting shot or ripped off....?

And, who here is educated enough to call the ball for the rest of us, newbies, on the day it should happen.

silverbuyer
23rd April 2009, 12:23
Not paranoia- "heard about a guy who" Get it? It just seems to me that most people have no idea what to do with their silver when its time to sell or take some off the table. For example Tulving gives great prices but you have to sell from 500 to 1000 ozs of the same product back. A lot of people here don't buy one product in those quantities or have 1000 ozs of one type of silver. Mix and match of e.g. 10 oz bars isn't acceptable there. Those paying two to three dollars or more over spot will have to wait until silver rises that much just to break even.

pmstacker
23rd April 2009, 12:41
"Aways a buyer?" not if the economy is so bad that milk costs $10/gallon....

Seriously, does anyone here have an exit strategy when the time comes to sell...?
Becuase I would like to have one in place, that is better than "driving around" to the local coin shops,
during a possible time when matial law is in place and there are thugs with guns in the streets...



seriously,
How are the folks here, with more then say a hypothetical 5000 oz. phyical, or much more, planning to physically sell it,
without getting shot or ripped off....?

And, who here is educated enough to call the ball for the rest of us, newbies, on the day it should happen.

Thats the thing, when milk is $10 a gallon, it is still being traded for frns, hense 10 dollars per gallon. If people are still using frns and the rate of inflation is skyrocketing to the point it is roughly 4x what it is now, there will always be people willing to trade their ever devaluing frns for metal, expecially considering metal should keep the pace with inflation. Those same people will have witnessed their frns being able to buy 4 gallons of milk down to 1 gallon of milk. That alone is an alarming indicator that will have people trying to dump their frns as quickly as possible for tangible physical assets, such as real estate and precious metals. Precious metals are easier to transport and sell/trade, therefore it will be the ultimate store of any wealth that is left. In this scenerio, our metals become extremely overvalued, in which case i will gladly trade some for real estate. My exit strategy doesn't nessissarily involve hijacking a brinks truck to haul it to the coin dealer, but more less hijacking real estate for future wealth building and appreciating value.

pmstacker
23rd April 2009, 12:45
Just remember long before our dollar came to be, precious metal was the accepted form of medium for exchange. It is an infallable store of wealth, that can only be devalued if an asteroid made of metal were to impact the earth near a refinary. The earths crust only contains a certain amount of metal and that metal cannot be reproduced, unlike trees and paper. Therefore there is not an endless supply of metal, and unless we have a method of obtaining the metal from other planets easier than we can from our own the rate of its supply will not increase at the same rate as paper can be made, therefore its value will remain the same or go up in relation to its paper counterpart.

LoboNoches
23rd April 2009, 12:48
Thats the thing, when milk is $10 a gallon, it is still being traded for frns, hense 10 dollars per gallon. If people are still using frns and the rate of inflation is skyrocketing to the point it is roughly 4x what it is now, there will always be people willing to trade their ever devaluing frns for metal, expecially considering metal should keep the pace with inflation. Those same people will have witnessed their frns being able to buy 4 gallons of milk down to 1 gallon of milk. That alone is an alarming indicator that will have people trying to dump their frns as quickly as possible for tangible physical assets, such as real estate and precious metals. Precious metals are easier to transport and sell/trade, therefore it will be the ultimate store of any wealth that is left. In this scenerio, our metals become extremely overvalued, in which case i will gladly trade some for real estate. My exit strategy doesn't nessissarily involve hijacking a brinks truck to haul it to the coin dealer, but more less hijacking real estate for future wealth building and appreciating value.


I'm with you on that one if **** gets that bad I'm taking my son,freinds,and yes even my ex(my son needs her) out of the country to Ireland tarde for alot of land and a regiment of the IRA to stand guard over my property with some attack sheep (Baaaaaad Intruder):)

Steadfast
23rd April 2009, 12:55
Just remember long before our dollar came to be, precious metal was the accepted form of medium for exchange. It is an infallable store of wealth, that can only be devalued if an asteroid made of metal were to impact the earth near a refinary. The earths crust only contains a certain amount of metal and that metal cannot be reproduced, unlike trees and paper. Therefore there is not an endless supply of metal, and unless we have a method of obtaining the metal from other planets easier than we can from our own the rate of its supply will not increase at the same rate as paper can be made, therefore its value will remain the same or go up in relation to its paper counterpart.

True,
Silver rounds and coins will be perfect as money.
but how are YOU planning to sell off any of your hypothetic "big bars?"
and at what market dollar amount per oz. should we plan to unload any "Big Bars" we may own?

Is your exit plan simply to "wait around" and then to "buy land", cool idea,
but who who would be willing to give it up if things get harder??

Does anyone have a more detailed practical "exit plan" we all can learn from and imulate?
who would be the "Best buyer" to go to when it is time?

LoboNoches
23rd April 2009, 14:35
True,
Silver rounds and coins will be perfect as money.
but how are YOU planning to sell off any of your hypothetic "big bars?"
and at what market dollar amount per oz. should we plan to unload any "Big Bars" we may own?

Is your exit plan simply to "wait around" and then to "buy land", cool idea,
but who who would be willing to give it up if things get harder??

Does anyone have a more detailed practical "exit plan" we all can learn from and imulate?
who would be the "Best buyer" to go to when it is time?

You could use the big bars to open a brothel and revel in frivolous activites with ladie of the night :)

Calvin
23rd April 2009, 18:45
Silver and gold will NEVER be used as money to buy milk. They may be used by some people to buy a used car or do some work or some other kind of barter but that is it. Silver and gold are bought to preserve wealth.

As far as selling it back. Kind of hard to put a hypothetical of when society gets worse, but I don't think it will get as bad as people think. We are much more advanced than we were in the 30s. I don't think there will be a problem at all selling it back to any of the major dealers. Just my two cents.

maplesilverbug
23rd April 2009, 20:10
Silver and gold will NEVER be used as money to buy milk. They may be used by some people to buy a used car or do some work or some other kind of barter but that is it. Silver and gold are bought to preserve wealth.

Ooohh! The dude gets it!


As far as selling it back. Kind of hard to put a hypothetical of when society gets worse, but I don't think it will get as bad as people think. We are much more advanced than we were in the 30s. I don't think there will be a problem at all selling it back to any of the major dealers. Just my two cents.

This man has a clear head, I like him.


"Always a buyer?" Not if the economy is so bad that milk costs $10/gallon....

Interesting analogy. Average price for a gallon of milk in the US is approx. $3.35; an ounce of silver goes for $12.82 today. If you shopped around you could probably buy four (4) gallons of milk for one (1) ounce of silver. So here's the plan:

Trade your $12.82 worth of fiat money for silver NOW, while milk sells for $3.35/gallon. In 25 years (using a static 4.3% inflation rate) when milk sells for $10/gallon, go trade your silver for fiat money. With the cash you receive you will still be able to buy four (4) gallons of milk (just like in the good ol' days!) while someone who the people who continued holding that same $12.82 of fiat money will only be able to buy one (1) gallon of milk to your four (4).

With that said, in 25 years silver should be worth approx. $38/oz of milk money!

And I wouldn't worry about about being able to sell or trade any weight of PM's, even if the economy goes chaotic. Just the opposite. All the fluff will burn up first and people will place value on the absolute basics that have always been around -- land and resources.

As well, there will always be humans out there way more greedy than you, contact one of them if you really feel the need to dump your silver in times of crisis.

PSUDave
23rd April 2009, 20:58
All you extremists, doom and gloomers are a little too out there for me. The monetary system isn't going to collapse, the powers to be won't let it happen. Why? Because that's how they make their money, with the people holding their fake paper/digital dollars. Without a currency in place and the population holding it, they can't tax, or inflate, or create "money" out of thin air. Sure the dollar may be headed to failure, but it'll just as easily be replaced by something else, and the whole scam will start over again. PMs will preserve what you have in the transition, nothing more. I don't believe for a second that people will ever be bartering with PMs. The general population is too dumbed down for that.

Cup-of-Ruin
23rd April 2009, 21:20
[QUOTE=Calvin;57964]Silver and gold will NEVER be used as money to buy milk.

In fact silver and gold have been used as circulating currency 'to buy milk' for far longer than rectangular pieces of paper, the value of the pieces of paper only exists in your head, silver and gold have a value, proven constant value because they are true elements of high value!



They may be used by some people to buy a used car or do some work or some other kind of barter but that is it. Silver and gold are bought to preserve wealth.

History proves that not only does silver and gold preserve wealth but it acts as the ultimate economic method of payment and settlement.


As far as selling it back. Kind of hard to put a hypothetical of when society gets worse, but I don't think it will get as bad as people think. We are much more advanced than we were in the 30s. I don't think there will be a problem at all selling it back to any of the major dealers. Just my two cents.

Mere speculation based on your own flight of fancy which is worth less than 2 cents!

Cup-of-Ruin
23rd April 2009, 21:36
[QUOTE=PSUDave;57992]All you extremists, doom and gloomers are a little too out there for me. The monetary system isn't going to collapse, the powers to be won't let it happen. Why? Because that's how they make their money, with the people holding their fake paper/digital dollars.

They make what? more fake paper/digital dollars! See that's why they are collapsing!


Without a currency in place and the population holding it, they can't tax, or inflate, or create "money" out of thin air.

Very Good, that's why intelligent people exchange fake worthless paper for real siver and gold!


Sure the dollar may be headed to failure, but it'll just as easily be replaced by something else, and the whole scam will start over again.

Sure another worthless scam will replace it but those with silver and gold won't be in it neither will they need to be in it!



PMs will preserve what you have in the transition, nothing more. I don't believe for a second that people will ever be bartering with PMs. The general population is too dumbed down for that.

Can you make a battery out of paper? Can you make a solar cell out of paper? Can you transmit electricity or convert energy with rectangular pieces of paper? Can you melt down paper and mould it into any shape you like? How does paper stand up against wind, rain, fire? How strong is it? How reflective? Compare the health and enviromental benefits? which can be more easily counterfieted? Thermal conductivity? Corrosion? Hardness, flexibilty?

Out of paper, silver or gold which one is more malleable?

Out of paper, silver or gold which one resists bacterial colonisation?

Are you getting the point?

maplesilverbug
23rd April 2009, 21:38
[QUOTE]...the value of the pieces of paper only exists in your head, silver and gold have a value, proven constant value because they are true elements of high value!

Wrong. The VALUE of ANYTHING exists only in all of our heads! Paddle up to any drowning man and offer him a kilo bar of gold or a life preserver -- then wait to see just how precious that metal is. It's CONTEXT that gives the value, not the item itself.

As for my "exit plan"...I plan on exchanging my non-renewable precious resource for that of THE ULTIMATE precious non-renewable resource (and it ain't gold!). Is that enough of a hint for you?

cugir321
23rd April 2009, 21:43
I agree!!! That's like saying somebody would fly an airplane into the world trade center. We'd nuke 'em!!!

I'm outta here....headed to the Roman Empire for vacation.


All you extremists, doom and gloomers are a little too out there for me. The monetary system isn't going to collapse, the powers to be won't let it happen. Why? Because that's how they make their money, with the people holding their fake paper/digital dollars. Without a currency in place and the population holding it, they can't tax, or inflate, or create "money" out of thin air. Sure the dollar may be headed to failure, but it'll just as easily be replaced by something else, and the whole scam will start over again. PMs will preserve what you have in the transition, nothing more. I don't believe for a second that people will ever be bartering with PMs. The general population is too dumbed down for that.

ricm123
23rd April 2009, 23:01
"Aways a buyer?" not if the economy is so bad that milk costs $10/gallon....

Seriously, does anyone here have an exit strategy when the time comes to sell...?
Becuase I would like to have one in place, that is better than "driving around" to the local coin shops,
during a possible time when matial law is in place and there are thugs with guns in the streets...
seriously,
How are the folks here, with more then say a hypothetical 5000 oz. phyical, or much more, planning to physically sell it,
without getting shot or ripped off....?

And, who here is educated enough to call the ball for the rest of us, newbies, on the day it should happen.

I may sound silly, but I can't imagine anyone buying any form of investment without first having some clear vision of what they are ever going to do with it.

No one can "call the ball" for you. You should know your base cost. (and that does include shipping.)

You should already have several potential selling arrangements; eBay at least, but local coin shops or places like NWTM or Apmex should be investigated and understood.
Any reputable dealer that sells bullion should have a buying policy too.

Waiting until you are desperate to find a buyer is not a good plan.

Only you know when it's a good time to ring the register. You'll never profit if you don't.

If you reach a certain percentage of gains, you may sell a percentage of your holdings. No one ever goes broke by taking a profit.

Every gain will reduce your base cost. You should learn to figure this and keep a record.

Some investors like to sell 1/2 of holdings if the price doubles from their entry point; that way they have a zero base and no way to lose.

Some will sell everything for a 20% gain and move on to something else.

Again, there is no canned routine that fits everyone's needs, age, income, etc.

Maybe you can buy a dead squirrel or something to eat at a Farmer's market some day with silver.... maybe not?

If you are that scared of thugs with guns in the streets, maybe you should be investing in provisions so you won't need to leave home?

Carry a 1 oz round/bar in your pocket / purse (now, not later) and ask merchants if they think they'll ever exchange goods for it. You may find a place or two that could be of value some day?

Good luck.

Cup-of-Ruin
23rd April 2009, 23:07
[QUOTE][QUOTE=maplesilverbug;58000]

Wrong. The VALUE of ANYTHING exists only in all of our heads! Paddle up to any drowning man and offer him a kilo bar of gold or a life preserver -- then wait to see just how precious that metal is. It's CONTEXT that gives the value, not the item itself.

It is you who are mistaken, and your little analogy goes a long way to proving the confused state of your mind. What is more valuable to the man who is not drowning in his boat with a paddle? even if the drowning man asked for the kilo of gold from the one who possessed it, the owner would surely be delusional to hand over his gold just to watch it sink to the bottom on the ocean, he may decide at his discretion to hand the drowning man a life jacket if he was screaming for it, but he may not do that either, the drowning man is not in a position of power to demand either the Kilo of gold or the life jacket and if the owner in the boat is safe then the kilo of gold is clearly worth alot more than a lifejacket which he doesn't need but he may decide to keep it anyway. From the man in the boats understanding and from universal aggreed upon value the kilo of gold is still worth more, it's not to the drowning man because of his compromised and unfortunate position, no matter what the drowning man thinks is more valuable dosen't chang the fact that the kilo of gold is worth more and will be worth more universally. That is why humans will dive to the depths of the ocean to recover a kilo of gold, but they wouldn't bother diving down to the bottom of the ocean to pull up a decomposed litter of bones and attached to a inflatible piece of plastic!

AgCarp
23rd April 2009, 23:25
I say take it all to Ireland sell it to the Leprechauns for land and red heads :)

Mmmmmmmmm...... red heads...

But seriously, who else wants facts and exact numbers besides the IRS?

No one on silverseek actually buys silver, it's more of a fantasy forum. We tell stories as if, in fact, we did buy silver, but everyone knows it's just make believe. It's sort of like D&D. You know.... role playing.

maplesilverbug
23rd April 2009, 23:55
What is more valuable to the man who is not drowning in his boat with a paddle?

As I stated, it's CONTEXT that gives VALUE!


From the man in the boats understanding and from universal aggreed upon value the kilo of gold is still worth more...

What is this "universal agreed upon value"? Where can I find it? Is it listed somewhere? In what universe?


...it's not to the drowning man because of his compromised and unfortunate position, no matter what the drowning man thinks is more valuable dosen't chang the fact that the kilo of gold is worth more and will be worth more universally.

Again, in what universe? In the universe where there are no drowning men? If it doesn't matter what the drowning man thinks, why does it matter what the non-drowning man thinks? The two are simply in different situations, different CONTEXTS.

I'm pretty sure if a crackhead in a "comprimised and unfortunate position" decides to rob you at gun point of your kilo of gold you would might rethink its "universal value". The crackhead is more than willing to trade his $0.13 bullet for your gold. In this CONTEXT it DOES matter what the "drowning man" thinks is more valuable. Oh wait, that would make YOU the "drowning man" in this instance!

Let's go the other way: a man dying of thirst comes upon an oasis. Right beside the oasis is a huge pile of gold bars. Will the dying man grab as much gold as he can and try to crawl another half mile before dying? Or will he dive into the oasis and drink as much water as he can? There is no "man in the boat" to determine "universal worth", only his own situation and CONTEXT.

Or a step further: you are the last person alive on the planet Earth. You have access to all the gold and silver in the world. Is it worth anything? What is the "universal value" then?


That is why humans will dive to the depths of the ocean to recover a kilo of gold, but they wouldn't bother diving down to the bottom of the ocean to pull up a decomposed litter of bones and attached to a inflatible piece of plastic!

Um, actually, they do both. Remember all the dudes digging around in the sand around the pyramids in Egypt for the last few centuries? First they went for the gold, then they went for the bones. And how long will the zealots search for JC's bones? And still we dig...

Cup-of-Ruin
24th April 2009, 01:19
As I stated, it's CONTEXT that gives VALUE!



What is this "universal agreed upon value"? Where can I find it? Is it listed somewhere? In what universe?



Again, in what universe? In the universe where there are no drowning men? If it doesn't matter what the drowning man thinks, why does it matter what the non-drowning man thinks? The two are simply in different situations, different CONTEXTS.

I'm pretty sure if a crackhead in a "comprimised and unfortunate position" decides to rob you at gun point of your kilo of gold you would might rethink its "universal value". The crackhead is more than willing to trade his $0.13 bullet for your gold. In this CONTEXT it DOES matter what the "drowning man" thinks is more valuable. Oh wait, that would make YOU the "drowning man" in this instance!

Let's go the other way: a man dying of thirst comes upon an oasis. Right beside the oasis is a huge pile of gold bars. Will the dying man grab as much gold as he can and try to crawl another half mile before dying? Or will he dive into the oasis and drink as much water as he can? There is no "man in the boat" to determine "universal worth", only his own situation and CONTEXT.

Or a step further: you are the last person alive on the planet Earth. You have access to all the gold and silver in the world. Is it worth anything? What is the "universal value" then?



Um, actually, they do both. Remember all the dudes digging around in the sand around the pyramids in Egypt for the last few centuries? First they went for the gold, then they went for the bones. And how long will the zealots search for JC's bones? And still we dig...

Oh I get it, your one of these poor brainwashed secular public autobots from the jewish working camps. well good luck with that personal relativity meme that you have been indoctrinated with, it will take you all the way to the Kabbahla 'Black Holes'! Hey what did Pontius Pilate say to Christ "What is truth?" Just like you saying "what is universal value?" Well universal value is agreed upon by those who uderstand the system elements and their values, now on this Earth Gold is at the top of this system representing the ultimate state of incorruptable material matter, and you as a brainwashed fool are somewhere near the bottom of the system, with very little value except in your own delusional mind.

valerb
24th April 2009, 01:48
Northwest Territorial Mint has maintained a buy back price of SPOT. However that only applies to Silver they sell. They will purchase other silver, but at something below the spot price. Then you have to subtract the cost of shipping and insurance to come up with a price to compare with whatever a LCS may be offering.

The best thing about dealing with places like NWTM, is that they are a constant and reliable place to sell your silver. LCS may or may not be buying when it comes time for you to sell.

It would be interesting to hear what people were able to sell their silver for during the 1979 - 1980 run up in price compared to the spot price. During the 90's, I read a lot of stories about how the LCS's were heavily discounting silver in the sell off by J.Q. Public. Of course we are talking about two different circumstances or we think that will be the case.

Just put yourself in the LCS dealers shoes and imagine the price of Silver is jumping up and down, while $5 a day swings are not uncommon. Would you be willing to purchase silver from the public at the current spot price? Neither will they. Choose wisely when you purchase Silver, as you may want to sell it someday.

The exit strategy of believing Silver will be wanted by everyone and a sure thing to sell, may or may not be a reality, no matter how high the price reaches. Nor is it a guarantee that places like NWTM will continue to buy back their products at the current spot price in the future. It's an exit strategy, but not a guarantee!!!

Paul
24th April 2009, 08:40
Cutting out the middle man and selling directly to another member of the public has got to be the best option. If you sell it (Silver) back to a mint or a coin shop they have to factor in overheads, shop space etc, etc. I do not believe that mints and coin shops buy in the hope for a day when silver explodes in price (no matter what the price of silver they have to be buying from source all the time so would not see much of a benefit from this). They just want to continuiously sell at a small profit on what they have bought for.

I like Ebay, but you have to factor in the 20% take down of whatever you sell for (10% to ebay and generally 10% to Paypal). So you have to be at least 30% up to make the regular trips to the Post Office worthwhile.

Maybe in more desperate times we'll have trading posts whereby we can exchange goods. I'm not sure if you have similar elsewhere but in England carboot sales (fields full of people selling their unwanted junk) are quite prolific and people can sell on their second hand unwanteds without to much attention from the taxman.

The contributor who said that a collapse of the current financial and govermental regimes is impossible is misguided. In this day and age you have to be prepared for anything and to believe that the guys and girls in power have even the faintest clue what to do to retain the equilibrium is a little naive.

maplesilverbug
24th April 2009, 08:42
Oh I get it, your one of these poor brainwashed secular public autobots from the jewish working camps. well good luck with that personal relativity meme that you have been indoctrinated with, it will take you all the way to the Kabbahla 'Black Holes'! Hey what did Pontius Pilate say to Christ "What is truth?" Just like you saying "what is universal value?" Well universal value is agreed upon by those who uderstand the system elements and their values, now on this Earth Gold is at the top of this system representing the ultimate state of incorruptable material matter, and you as a brainwashed fool are somewhere near the bottom of the system, with very little value except in your own delusional mind.

You are funny.

I actually like autobots. My favorite is the one that turns into the yellow car. Vroom!

And by "jewish working camps" do you mean Hollywood?

"...universal value is agreed upon by those who uderstand the system elements and their values..." Okay. I honestly do want to understand. Do you have any essays or articles (books?) I can read concerning and detailing "Universal Value" theory? I'm serious.

"Gold is at the top of this system representing the ultimate state of incorruptable [sic] material matter..." Great. Unfortunately, everything else around that "incorruptable [sic] material matter" (whatever that means) is corrupt. Kind of like sending the strongest man on Earth to a planet of low gravity, his strength diminishes greatly. But that's just another example of contextual worth/value, which I am quickly learning is so wrong.

For example: "To match its inflation-adjusted peak of $850 an ounce as recorded by the London PM Gold Fix of 21st Jan. 1980 the price of gold should now stand nearer $2,615." Which it of course does not. Why? Oh yeah, that little thing called "inflation"! But hey, wait! We don't use gold (or silver) any more for money, so...inflation is a function of fiat money -- that is, money based on and back by nothing more than trust (ha!). And who do we trust more than our own government to do the right thing?

But I digress. Why isn't "incorruptable" [sic] gold selling for a "universal worth" of $2,600 or more in this "system of elements"? Is it because everything else in the system is corrupt? I don't know. Tell me the reason. I really do need to know.

Oh, btw, truth and reality can and often do diverge at any given time.

I await my homework assignment.

Calvin
24th April 2009, 12:44
Boy.....good thing we have this new Mr Cup guy who can fill our glass with all his knowledge. I feel so much smarter now.......(hahahaha)

Steadfast
24th April 2009, 12:55
Interesting discussion guys.... really...

While "relitive value" is facinating,
could we talk more about "exit stratagies"???

valerb
24th April 2009, 12:59
Cutting out the middle man and selling directly to another member of the public has got to be the best option. If you sell it (Silver) back to a mint or a coin shop they have to factor in overheads, shop space etc, etc. I do not believe that mints and coin shops buy in the hope for a day when silver explodes in price (no matter what the price of silver they have to be buying from source all the time so would not see much of a benefit from this). They just want to continuiously sell at a small profit on what they have bought for.

I like Ebay, but you have to factor in the 20% take down of whatever you sell for (10% to ebay and generally 10% to Paypal). So you have to be at least 30% up to make the regular trips to the Post Office worthwhile.



Finding someone in the public sector to sell your silver to when the price is stable or running through the roof is easier said than done, especially when your trying to sell thousands of ounces. Dumping a few ten ounce bars is one thing, but finding someone with a few hundred thousand to purchase your silver is something completely different.

Who in their right mind would even consider shelling out that kind of money to a stranger for what is supposed to be pure silver? I don't trust half the sites on the web and I sure wouldn't trust a stranger.

Steadfast
24th April 2009, 13:19
Finding someone in the public sector to sell your silver to when the price is stable or running through the roof is easier said than done, especially when your trying to sell thousands of ounces. Dumping a few ten ounce bars is one thing, but finding someone with a few hundred thousand to purchase your silver is something completely different.

Who in their right mind would even consider shelling out that kind of money to a stranger for what is supposed to be pure silver? I don't trust half the sites on the web and I sure wouldn't trust a stranger.

So then, is the best exit plan for the "super silver bareing folks" to make an appointment with a silver firm in NYC and then go on a "road trip" or what?

Willie Hunter
24th April 2009, 13:56
Northwest Territorial Mint has maintained a buy back price of SPOT. However that only applies to Silver they sell. They will purchase other silver, but at something below the spot price. Then you have to subtract the cost of shipping and insurance to come up with a price to compare with whatever a LCS may be offering.

The best thing about dealing with places like NWTM, is that they are a constant and reliable place to sell your silver. LCS may or may not be buying when it comes time for you to sell.

It would be interesting to hear what people were able to sell their silver for during the 1979 - 1980 run up in price compared to the spot price. During the 90's, I read a lot of stories about how the LCS's were heavily discounting silver in the sell off by J.Q. Public. Of course we are talking about two different circumstances or we think that will be the case.

Just put yourself in the LCS dealers shoes and imagine the price of Silver is jumping up and down, while $5 a day swings are not uncommon. Would you be willing to purchase silver from the public at the current spot price? Neither will they. Choose wisely when you purchase Silver, as you may want to sell it someday.

The exit strategy of believing Silver will be wanted by everyone and a sure thing to sell, may or may not be a reality, no matter how high the price reaches. Nor is it a guarantee that places like NWTM will continue to buy back their products at the current spot price in the future. It's an exit strategy, but not a guarantee!!!


Northwest buys other silver at bid -.40

CrazyFoool
24th April 2009, 15:39
so basically everyone is stuck with their silver until two things happen in order.

1. prices sky rocket
2. prices after the sky rocketing, stablizes completely at the level for a long time without speculation that it will drop.

or

1. The world collapses and paper money isn't worth anything anymore.


lol...people who wear foil hats, please raise your hand.

CrazyFoool
24th April 2009, 15:41
Cutting out the middle man and selling directly to another member of the public has got to be the best option. If you sell it (Silver) back to a mint or a coin shop they have to factor in overheads, shop space etc, etc. I do not believe that mints and coin shops buy in the hope for a day when silver explodes in price (no matter what the price of silver they have to be buying from source all the time so would not see much of a benefit from this). They just want to continuiously sell at a small profit on what they have bought for.

I like Ebay, but you have to factor in the 20% take down of whatever you sell for (10% to ebay and generally 10% to Paypal). So you have to be at least 30% up to make the regular trips to the Post Office worthwhile.

Maybe in more desperate times we'll have trading posts whereby we can exchange goods. I'm not sure if you have similar elsewhere but in England carboot sales (fields full of people selling their unwanted junk) are quite prolific and people can sell on their second hand unwanteds without to much attention from the taxman.

The contributor who said that a collapse of the current financial and govermental regimes is impossible is misguided. In this day and age you have to be prepared for anything and to believe that the guys and girls in power have even the faintest clue what to do to retain the equilibrium is a little naive.


ok so if you think that the word and government is going to collapse...tell me. do you have the arsenal of weapons to fight off the masses that will raid your silver stock? hell, it'd be better to invest in machine guns and bullets if you really believed this. fly to Somalia and report back with the data of who's rich in that country (relatively speaking).

silverbuyer
24th April 2009, 16:24
Agree on cutting out the middleman. Public is totally tuned out to Pms though. I've talked to real estate Investors, Drs and Attorneys as well as business owners- most of them either dont get it or they're broke.

valerb
24th April 2009, 17:46
So then, is the best exit plan for the "super silver bareing folks" to make an appointment with a silver firm in NYC and then go on a "road trip" or what?

We won't know the answer to that problem until we get there.

All I can say is, buy from a dealer or mint that "promises" to purchase their own products back, when you get ready to sell.

I live in Atlanta and couldn't find a coin shop that would purchase silver rounds last spring when the price was in the $15 range. I ended up selling them for $1 below spot to a place that "buys only". I didn't know places like that exist. He is listed as a precious metals dealer and only purchases metals. He told me he does nothing but buy from the public and sells it to the refineries.

I only sold 350 rounds and couldn't find a LSC interested. No discount offers, simply not interested!!

My point is, if you have trouble selling 350 silver rounds at $15, what will it be like at $55 or $115? Just because the price of Silver is rising, does not mean people will be standing in line to purchase all or ours, when we are ready to sell. So a road trip to another city or state may actually be your only option other than shipping it to a dealer or mint.

Look at how often we see a message and someone can't find any silver locally and they have to drive to another city to purchase it or buy it online. We are scattered all over the country in cities and towns of all sizes. If I could only find "one" dealer interested in my Silver rounds in the fifth largest metropolitan area last year, is it not possible that others living in less populated areas may have a more difficult time unloading locally. Just because you have a local coin shop does not indicate they actually deal in bullion sales. A lot of them only carry investment grade coins and do not have the cash or desire to deal with bulk silver.

It may very well turn out that people will be standing in line to buy our silver, but having you head in the sand expecting that to happen could prove to be a bad decision.

maplesilverbug
24th April 2009, 20:48
So then, is the best exit plan...to make an appointment with a silver firm in NYC and then go on a "road trip" or what?


So a road trip to another city or state may actually be your only option...

I think in 5-10 years I'll sell some silver and invest in road block equipment. See you cats at the NY border!

My "exit strategy" is exactly the same as my entry strategy (all that sounds way too porn!) -- sell in increments. I hold silver for one reason: to offset inflation vs. holding cash only. I will continue to buy and sell silver at every stage of my life.

Cup-of-Ruin
24th April 2009, 23:55
Greetings,
I think the oppurtunity to sell silver will present itself in the future, silver will be able to purchase alot more then it does now, so in a few years time you might find that a little bag of nice silver coins can buy a small farm or a house, or arsenal of weapons or a warehouse full of grain, or factory machinery, basically it's purchasing power will increase quite dramatically. It's difficult to measure in dollars because we wont be using dollars in a few years time.

Paul
25th April 2009, 06:43
ok so if you think that the word and government is going to collapse...tell me. do you have the arsenal of weapons to fight off the masses that will raid your silver stock? hell, it'd be better to invest in machine guns and bullets if you really believed this. fly to Somalia and report back with the data of who's rich in that country (relatively speaking).

NO I do not think that is likely to happen, but I do not dismiss anything. I think if you stick to wearing your rose-tinted glasses believing your goverment will haul you out of the brown stuff then you may be rather disappointed one day.

CrazyFoool
25th April 2009, 15:49
NO I do not think that is likely to happen, but I do not dismiss anything. I think if you stick to wearing your rose-tinted glasses believing your goverment will haul you out of the brown stuff then you may be rather disappointed one day.

I'm talking about a viable exit plan. are you going to hold on to your silver until you die just in case our currency collapses?

Cup-of-Ruin
26th April 2009, 03:52
[QUOTE=maplesilverbug;58017]As I stated, it's CONTEXT that gives VALUE!

Context to who? By that same logic what you saying is that if you close your eyes the eveything vanishes, just like a 2 year old child that closes his eyes and thinks that nobody can see him. Value is not set by your own personal desire or your relative position, if you believe so then that is a personality disorder, you would have to be delusional to believe that.




What is this "universal agreed upon value"? Where can I find it? Is it listed somewhere? In what universe?

It is something that is held as truth because it fulfils all logical, reasonable and universal law i.e. it is universally recognized that 2+2=4.



Again, in what universe? In the universe where there are no drowning men? If it doesn't matter what the drowning man thinks, why does it matter what the non-drowning man thinks?

It matters because in your analogy the non-drowning man has both the life-jacket and the kg. of gold! Imagine if I was drowning and you had a kg. of gold, would you give to me?



The two are simply in different situations, different CONTEXTS.

That's right but the gold or the life jacket retain their intrinsic and natural values regardless of what either man thinks or believes, just because a child closes his eyes that dosen't mean the universe has vanished!


I'm pretty sure if a crackhead in a "comprimised and unfortunate position" decides to rob you at gun point of your kilo of gold you would might rethink its "universal value".

Does not matter what I think, the value of gold still remains whether I have the ability to recognize it or not.



The crackhead is more than willing to trade his $0.13 bullet for your gold. In this CONTEXT it DOES matter what the "drowning man" thinks is more valuable. Oh wait, that would make YOU the "drowning man" in this instance!

No it does not matter, because the drowning man is not in possesion of the gold, that's what you said in your analogy. Regardless, it only matters to him, he obviously has no need for it, it's not going to help him stay afloat, that dosen't change the fundamental nature of gold!


Let's go the other way: a man dying of thirst comes upon an oasis. Right beside the oasis is a huge pile of gold bars. Will the dying man grab as much gold as he can and try to crawl another half mile before dying? Or will he dive into the oasis and drink as much water as he can? There is no "man in the boat" to determine "universal worth", only his own situation and CONTEXT.

Again that's the relativity meme that's been implanted in your brain from birth, you can only see things from a one-dimensional point of you, mostly your own and by that you determine value, but that is not how the rest of the universe determines value.


Or a step further: you are the last person alive on the planet Earth. You have access to all the gold and silver in the world. Is it worth anything? What is the "universal value" then?

Ah, yes it is, it's value in fact has not changed, because the silver and gold itself did not change, no transformation in the silver and gold itself.




Um, actually, they do both. Remember all the dudes digging around in the sand around the pyramids in Egypt for the last few centuries? First they went for the gold, then they went for the bones. And how long will the zealots search for JC's bones? And still we dig

They won't find Jesus Christ's bones, the Lord is risen, full bodily resurrection, He now reigns in Heaven as King of the universe!!!!

maplesilverbug
26th April 2009, 07:25
Context to who? Value is not set by your own personal desire or your relative position, if you believe so then that is a personality disorder, you would have to be delusional to believe that.

Context: it's Christmas (another sham) during the early '80's. You have a child screaming for a Cabbage Patch Kid doll. So you go to the mall and fight your neighbour to pay $100. The very next Christmas you see the doll on sale for $10.
(What would an '80's Ethiopian child do with the same Cabbage Patch Kid doll? Would it be worth fighting for? Would it's value be 1,000 times the cost to produce it?)

What changed? It's still the same holiday, it's still the same model doll.

Context: there is a world wide economic pandemic. "Investors" go scrambling for precious metals as the only "real" thing. Yet ten years earlier were pouring their money into awesome "new economy" .com stocks.
(What would a person with an inoperable brain tumor, or a 3-month old baby, value a hunk of silver or a share of WeSellItAll!.com stock?)

What changed? There was silver and .com stocks in 1999, there is silver and .com stocks in 2009.

But, of course, no one is delusional about the value of anything, right?


It is something that is held as truth because it fulfils all logical, reasonable and universal law i.e. it is universally recognized that 2+2=4.

The human universe also believed, for a very long time, that the planet Earth was flat. It's also proven, mathematically, that 0.999 repeating = 1. "Universal Law" only extends to the limit of our understanding.


It matters because in your analogy the non-drowning man has both the life-jacket and the kg. of gold! Imagine if I was drowning and you had a kg. of gold, would you give to me?

I sure would! (heh heh heh) But I digress...the point being, a person is always going to choose the option which will, in his mind, give him the greatest benefit. A drowning man will choose the life preserver because it will give him life (or more specifically, non-death!). The non-drowning man, if you haven't figured it out by now, is Mr. Market, and he doesn't care if you are drowning or not.


That's right but the gold or the life jacket retain their intrinsic and natural values regardless of what either man thinks or believes, just because a child closes his eyes that dosen't mean the universe has vanished!

Again, read from the beginning.


Does not matter what I think, the value of gold still remains whether I have the ability to recognize it or not.

No? So if ONE person, let's say Warren Buffet, decides that silver is really super awesome and thinks that he would like to own some, and goes on a buying binge...well, that's just ONE person's thinking, no way it could effect the "universal value" of silver. Oh, wait...


No it does not matter, because the drowning man is not in possesion of the gold, that's what you said in your analogy. Regardless, it only matters to him, he obviously has no need for it, it's not going to help him stay afloat, that dosen't change the fundamental nature of gold!

Exactly. Go back and read. The drowning man may indeed have need for that big bar of gold, but not at that exact point in time. He is going to choose to fulfill his basic needs first (ie. living) before seeking silver (or gold in this case).


Again that's the relativity meme that's been implanted in your brain from birth, you can only see things from a one-dimensional point of you, mostly your own and by that you determine value, but that is not how the rest of the universe determines value.

I see. So will we puny humans ever know the True Universal Value of gold and silver? Or is it just up to us to fluctuate it with our own greed and fear in relation to everything else? And what did the aliens implant in your brain at birth?


Ah, yes it is, it's value in fact has not changed, because the silver and gold itself did not change, no transformation in the silver and gold itself.

Sigh.


They won't find Jesus Christ's bones, the Lord is risen, full bodily resurrection, He now reigns in Heaven as King of the universe!!!!

To this I can only quote the following, "...if you believe so then that is a personality disorder, you would have to be delusional to believe that."

And to all a good-night.

Steadfast
26th April 2009, 17:31
[QUOTE]
They won't find Jesus Christ's bones, the Lord is risen, full bodily resurrection, He now reigns in Heaven as King of the universe!!!!

Bravo, my brother!

You speak a truth, that is so absolute, that it would be easier for those who doubt it to extinquish the sun with a dixie cup of Ice water then to change who Jesus truly is, and will be...

For every knee will bow...every last one....

But then we are off the "silver exit plan" topic again...
he he...

maplesilverbug
26th April 2009, 18:20
They won't find Jesus Christ's bones, the Lord is risen, full bodily resurrection, He now reigns in Heaven as King of the universe!!!!


You speak a truth, that is so absolute, that it would be easier for those who doubt it to extinquish the sun with a dixie cup of Ice water then to change who Jesus truly is, and will be...

For every knee will bow...every last one....

Oh my....yikes. Really yikes.

One thing more scary than PM fanatics, it's religious zealots.

Steadfast
26th April 2009, 21:12
ummmm....yikes?

Most PM investor's are political conservitives.
Most political conservitives are Christians.
Most Christians know aleady that Jesus is LORD and God Himself...
Why is this a suprise for you?

And if this make us "zelots" then you can happily count me in that number! :)


Back to our topic... I plan to sell of any Big bars first and work my way down to smaller bars as things get harder on the US dollar.
Is this a good idea..?

maplesilverbug
26th April 2009, 22:36
I plan to sell of any Big bars first and work my way down to smaller bars as things get harder on the US dollar.
Is this a good idea..?

I guess you'll find out one way or another.

fansubs_ca
27th April 2009, 00:11
Oh my....yikes. Really yikes.

One thing more scary than PM fanatics, it's religious zealots.

Strictly speaking it's only the angry religious zealots that are scary, the
mellow religious people are OK. (Only the angry ones crash planes into
buildings. ;) )




Quote:
Or a step further: you are the last person alive on the planet Earth. You have access to all the gold and silver in the world. Is it worth anything? What is the "universal value" then
?

Ah, yes it is, it's value in fact has not changed, because the silver and gold itself did not change, no transformation in the silver and gold itself.


As far as a medium of exchange, if there is nobody else left to exchange
with that function bears no value. As a store of value, it has to have use
to you or someone else at some future point to fullfill that. If you are the
last person left stored food and fuel to keep warm, cook & move stuff is a
much better store of what would be "value" to you at that point. Though
it's quite hypothetical since we are extreamly unlikely to have to deal with
being the _last_ person alive on the planet.

The value of the metals would at that point purely be a product of what
you have the skills and knowledge to make with them.

But back to exit stratagy, the future is impossible to tell so although
knowing how things played out in 1980 for example gives one image of
what things could be like, that only represents one possibility. Unfortunately
I have no stories of the PM market of my own from 1980 to add because
I was only 9 at the time. I do remember how fast the price of chocolate
bars, potato chips and soda were going up around that time so I do have
a very vivid memory of the inflation during that period though.

Knowing several places you can sell ahead of time is good to know because
you need a plan B if plan A goes wrong. Those who mention traveling to
sell may be right for a different reason, if you are unfortunate enough to
live in an area where people are hard to deal with you may have to travel
a bit to find someone ready to deal. Where that place that's best to deal
may vary from time to time, it won't nesseccarrily be in a major city like
New York either. The best dealers could be in small towns, it seems to
be a matter of chance how that works out. If Jerry is still in bussiness
at a point when I need/want to cash out and I have a hard time finding
someone in Winnipeg that isn't being jerky I could end up going to North
Dakota to sell. However I don't expect to reach that point that quickly.

The only thing that would be a plus finding a place to sell as compared to
finding a place to buy is there will be one less consideration, you won't
have to worry about the local sales taxes when you sell. The local sales
tax really sucks the life out of buying locally, thus local dealers do less
volume, thus they don't spread their costs over as big a volume to get
unit cost down, thus they are less competitive even before the local
taxes are added and it becomes a vicious cycle. As for buying from the
public and bulk shipping to refiners they seem to have no obstacles in the
way of that side of the bussiness.

silverbuyer
27th April 2009, 11:31
Well, this is all very interesting. Here we are buying silver like a bunch of Loonies and seems many of us don't even have a clue how, or where to cash it in profitably without taking a haircut. Maybe a local coin club for those in Metro areas would be a place to sell and get back some premium. Just make sure you don't get followed home!

silverbuyer
27th April 2009, 18:34
One idea I do agree- you need some currency as opportunity money when times get hard. In Carter years, Cash was King even though we had high inflation-the discounts on collectibles, antiques, real estate, and investments more than made up for dollar value lost. Held cash in 13-16% money market funds so loss of purchasing power was minimal anyhow. When recession ended, all that stuff went up and silver cratered- anyone here remember that?