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elixer
20th March 2008, 18:27
With physical silver shortages starting amidst a rigged 'paper' silver price there may soon develop parallel silver markets - physical and paper. This would mean you could buy a silver certificate at $16 an ounce with a promise to turn it into physical silver at a later indefinite date when supplies are available, or you can buy physical silver now for $50 an ounce. What would Madam like?

Conversely with selling, a paper certificate will be worth the 'official' market of $16 an ounce, but if you turn up with a silver bar you get $50 an ounce.

This situation would soon reveal even to the dumb and the blind that there is massive manipulation of the market going on.

Pax Awalup
21st March 2008, 09:21
I’ve been a blue collar average Joe for a long time, and still am a total newb when it comes all the whole financial games that are played. I made the decision to buy physical silver (and some gold before discovering the merits of silver) for one simple reason... I wanted to save money and gold and silver are real money.

I’ve been reading these forums and articles for awhile and Butler et al have made a convincing case that somehow the market price is being manipulated. Hell, watching the events and price movements of the recent past, anyone with a lick of sense can see that things just don’t add up. While I don’t know much at all about futures and all that, I took the time to try to read about them, what they are, and how they work.

I have the simple mentality of a fair days pay for a fair days work. And while I’m no dummy and work hard, having that mindset leaves me with the impression that it’s just another fraudulent layer of financial “instruments” in the midst of a fraudulent financial system.

From what I’ve read, the whole presupposition of a futures “contract” is to never take delivery of the goods stated within the contract and to continue the buying and selling of the contracts. In the immortal words of Patrick Henry, “I smell a rat.” Trading paper for paper adds no intrinsic value to anything, nothing tangible is created, nor anything of intangible worth either… nothing is learned, nothing is gained.

Gold and silver futures are pure fraud from my estimation. Of gold futures I read, “These advantages mean turnover of gold futures contracts currently exceeds actual bullion production by many times.” I assume the same is true of silver. Buying and selling on a promise to deliver??? C’mon!!! Where do they get this stuff??? From the same commie-fascists who created this whole fiat money systems no doubt.

Of these futures I further read, “The volume is usually so large that the tail of the futures market wags the dog of the spot market, where volumes are much smaller. The market becomes a high stakes game of "chicken" and it is far from unusual to see the price maintained by a big player at a particular rate, only to swerve violently immediately after the contract terms expire. It can make for some frightening action for the uninitiated - and they usually lose out.”

So, what I don’t understand is how a whole system whose presupposition is to never take delivery on an actual product can dictate the price of the product itself. If Butler and the rest are correct, sooner or later the law of supply and demand must prevail.

Therefore, I agree that parallel markets may, or even may have already begun to emerge. Your idea of silver certificates is what I understand the futures market to already be. All those mucho traders can keep their paper “instruments” and perpetuate this fraud. But they can’t hold their grip forever.

They’ve done me a favor in that I’ve observed that as long as the big boys continue to manipulate (not control) the action, these big run ups in price will always be followed by a pretty severe “correction” in which they consolidate their positions. That is when I will take these meager fraudulent reserve notes I’ve accumulated and exchange them once more for real money.

Maybe some time from now and when I’m a bit savvier, I’ll take some of that and play the buy low sell high game. And if I do, it will be with real silver and gold (g/s ratio). I’ll not participate in a rigged game that has no value or purpose other than destruction.

If I am in error, please enlighten…

Silver Shoes
21st March 2008, 14:51
elixer,

The appearance of parallel markets would indeed signal a shortage of real silver, as opposed to the abundance of 'paper' silver available for shorting. If they don't appear we will have to assume that something else is going on.

offgrid
21st March 2008, 16:36
'And while I’m no dummy and work hard, having that mindset leaves me with the impression that it’s just another fraudulent layer of financial “instruments” in the midst of a fraudulent financial system.' Pax Awalup
It is, as you seem to be saying, an illusion (in front of another illusion, in front of etc etc). There is no working hard, no worker worthy of his wages, just the intoxicating vision of being a 'player', albeit in a rigged game.

elixer
21st March 2008, 16:52
The paper shell game only works while the punters are bewildered by the complexity of the game - by all the flashing of the 'futures' lights and the acceptance that a silver certificate is the same as physical silver. If the punters who have bought certificates simply paid the fabrication cost for silver and demanded the physical product then the 'snake oil salesmen' would have to flee town in their horse and buggy. It is this stupidity of the punter who is not awakened enough to challenge the scam that keeps the whole circus going.
In Australia we have a prize fish called a barramundi and a saying 'hundreds caught, thousands sold.' In other words there are plenty of fish substituted for barramundi, and plenty of silver substituted with certificates.

silverbuggy
21st March 2008, 18:58
http://forums.silverseek.com/showpost.php?p=2141&postcount=18