Johnson and Matthey bars

[Daveman]

Does anyone know if Johnson and Matthey 100 oz bars made by extrusion process or free poured?

I ask because I read that bars made by the free pour method are guaranteed to be exactly 100 oz., while extrusion bars are all the same size.

So does this imply that extrusion bars will not be "exactly" 100 oz.?

[chux03]

It depends...

Their older bars are free poured and the newer ones are extruded. Even though all of these bars should have their exact, true weight stamped on the bar, one would think that the extruded method to be more exact when it comes to weight. On the smaller bars, at the coin shops I frequent, a 10 ounce bar is sold for the 10 ounces, even though it may say 10.14 or some such number. Soon as they get towards a half an ounce over then this coin shop will price it accordingly.
J&M is an old and trusted name in precious metals. Here's a link:

http://www.matthey.com/

Check out their share price.... YIKES!!!

[goldminer]

If a bar or a round weighs "exactly" what is stamped on it, it's a fluke. Perfect doesn't exist in pouring, stamping, or extruding. There are production tolerances.

[goldminer]

If a bar or a round weighs "exactly" what is stamped on it, it's a fluke. Perfect doesn't exist in pouring, stamping, or extruding. There are production tolerances that allow for a bit more or less in grains. IME it's generally been a little more; like with a 1 oz. round actual weight is maybe 482 grains (vs. 480).

[Daveman]

If a bar or a round weighs "exactly" what is stamped on it, it's a fluke. Perfect doesn't exist in pouring, stamping, or extruding. There are production tolerances.
Thanks.

Obviously, I couldn't care less if my 100oz bar actually contains 101oz of silver :eek: no complaints here!!

What I'm worried about is, if I were to buy a 100oz Johnson and Matthey, and the bar is "only" 99 oz, then I would have over paid for the extra ounce that's not there!

Are bars only going to be larger than they're supposed to be? Or should I watch out for bars that can actually be lighter than the supposed 100 oz?

[Irons]

Thanks.

Obviously, I couldn't care less if my 100oz bar actually contains 101oz of silver :eek: no complaints here!!

What I'm worried about is, if I were to buy a 100oz Johnson and Matthey, and the bar is "only" 99 oz, then I would have over paid for the extra ounce that's not there!

Are bars only going to be larger than they're supposed to be? Or should I watch out for bars that can actually be lighter than the supposed 100 oz?

Every bar or round I put on a scale was on or over by a grain or 6,Just make sure those 100 oz bars were not drilled out and filled with lead.
Every way of counterfeiting known to man will and is happening as demand go's up.

[Daveman]

Just make sure those 100 oz bars were not drilled out and filled with lead.

Please, tell me how I can possibly check for that when checking my merchandise!

[paker]

Look for any obvious round areas that looked patched, different than the rest of the bar. Put it in a plastic grocery bag and strike it with a small hammer. It should ring, not "thud".

[chux03]

If a bar or a round weighs "exactly" what is stamped on it, it's a fluke. Perfect doesn't exist in pouring, stamping, or extruding. There are production tolerances that allow for a bit more or less in grains. IME it's generally been a little more; like with a 1 oz. round actual weight is maybe 482 grains (vs. 480).

I'll agree with you on the rounds but IME those weights stamped on various "10 ounce bars" are exact as they're weighed AFTER manufacture. That's why you see the number (I used an example of above) 10.14 Ounces. When the dealer says he has many "10 ounce bars" that's a generic term and unless that thing is over the next up half ounce (like 10.63 Ounces - I have one of those too) the dealers I frequent charge just for the 10 ounces whereas the 10.63 bar would be sold at the 10.5 Ounce weight. I'm sure there's many dealers who charge the ACTUAL stamped weight hopefully after using their own scale for confirmation though I haven't run into one that does that. I'm thinking every old(er) silver bar I own has the weight like that stamped or engraved on it, the older the more likely that's so IME.

[JesterJay]

I love those old bars with fractions in the weight. They get me silver for free!
I bought 6 bars seperately with the following weights:
10.17, 10.19, 10.34, 10.43, 10.44, and another 10.44. They total up to 62.01 ounces. I only paid for 60 oz. because each was sold to me as 10 ouncer. IF I had bought them all together I am sure I would have been charged for the full 62 ounces.
Lucky me!
JesterJay

I'll agree with you on the rounds but IME those weights stamped on various "10 ounce bars" are exact as they're weighed AFTER manufacture. That's why you see the number (I used an example of above) 10.14 Ounces.

[Daveman]

Look for any obvious round areas that looked patched, different than the rest of the bar. Put it in a plastic grocery bag and strike it with a small hammer. It should ring, not "thud".

The hammer part I get, buy why the plastic bag?

[paker]

If you hold it in your fingers it doesn't give as good of a ring. The plastic bag is strong and, hopefully, won't split open.

[Daveman]

If you hold it in your fingers it doesn't give as good of a ring. The plastic bag is strong and, hopefully, won't split open.

If I hold it in my fingers? What do you mean? Am I suppose to lay the bullion on a flat surface, like a table, then strik with the hammer?

And I've also heard people tell me to strike with a wooden spoon instead. Which is better?

[paker]

The finger method dulls the ring. They absorb the vibration of the silver bar. A plastic bag will allow it to ring. I suppose a wooden spoon might work, but I doubt better then a hammer. Laying the silver on a flat surface also absorbs the ring vibration of the silver.

[TTAZZMAN]

i dont like the idea of hitting it with a hammer....but the plastic handle of a screwdriver...wooden spoon...those all work...a double bag from the grocery store...etc will work to suspend bigger bars...etc

[JesterJay]

I recognize the sound of silver Jingle Jangling in my pockets. I like to carry a silver dollar or two around with me. Nothing small I will accidentally spend. A Morgan with a 110+ year old date on it is quite impressive to the little kids. And their parents. MOST recognize it as being different. The kids that is. The adults are almost clueless. Most would not be able to recognize a $20 Saint.

I should do a "Man on the Street" type interview and record it. See how many people at the Mall in Midwestern Town USA know what a Gold Saint and Morgan Silver Dollar are.

Think I will work on that. Lots of people should know, with the shortage and all. Right?

Doubt It!
JesterJay


i dont like the idea of hitting it with a hammer....but the plastic handle of a screwdriver...wooden spoon...those all work...a double bag from the grocery store...etc will work to suspend bigger bars...etc

[Daveman]

i dont like the idea of hitting it with a hammer....but the plastic handle of a screwdriver...wooden spoon...those all work...a double bag from the grocery store...etc will work to suspend bigger bars...etc
I see, so wrap the silver bullion in the plastic bag, and suspend it in midair when striking it???

I'll still have to hold the top part of the bag though, wouldn't I?

[TTAZZMAN]

Dave-yes...it will ring like a bell

[paker]

i dont like the idea of hitting it with a hammer....but the plastic handle of a screwdriver...wooden spoon...those all work...a double bag from the grocery store...etc will work to suspend bigger bars...etc

Why? Is the silver for show or to sell and make tons of money? Just tap it lightly, don't try to hit as home run.

[schmidr12]

i've got a johnson matthey 100 oz that isn't passing the ring test.
When hitting it with a small hammer i'm getting a "tink" instead of a long pinggggggggggg....

I've got a seven other 100 oz. bars that all sound fine.

This does appear to be an older poured bar. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it.

The ends look clean, but there is splotch mark on the bottom about a half an inch wide that could be something.

[schmidr12]

i've got a johnson matthey 100 oz that isn't passing the ring test.
When hitting it with a small hammer i'm getting a "tink" instead of a long pinggggggggggg....

I've got a seven other 100 oz. bars that all sound fine.

This does appear to be an older poured bar. I'm wondering if that has anything to do with it.

The ends look clean, but there is splotch mark on the bottom about a half an inch wide that could be something.

Should i be worried? Is there another easy way to test?