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ecpioneer
16th March 2009, 16:57
I have been reading that the Silver Market is being manipulated causing lower prices than a free market should yield. If this is so, what can we do to get Congress to examine what is going on? My understanding is that a few buyers are buying "shorts" or paper futures with low prices and have flooded the silver market place with many times more than the actual physical silver inventory on hand. If so, this is a CRIME being committed. If so, we need justice applied. How do we get the media and government attention to this problem?

Argentum
16th March 2009, 17:17
Justice? Not going to happen. What you can do? Buy hard metal.

aequitas
16th March 2009, 17:22
The issue is the government, the FED, and the banks are carrying out the manipulation or are complacent in it. So complaining that they should investigate is unlikely to make a difference. The CFTC is on their 3rd investigation, they are being paid to fail to find manipulation that their own data proves.

TheLoneRanger
16th March 2009, 17:53
I have been reading that the Silver Market is being manipulated causing lower prices than a free market should yield. If this is so, what can we do to get Congress to examine what is going on? My understanding is that a few buyers are buying "shorts" or paper futures with low prices and have flooded the silver market place with many times more than the actual physical silver inventory on hand. If so, this is a CRIME being committed. If so, we need justice applied. How do we get the media and government attention to this problem?

What you can do is buy and hold PM's... never complain that the price is to low.. just buy more... no manipulation scheme can last forever silver and gold will be to expensive for you to afford all to soon... never wish for that day.

cdavport
16th March 2009, 22:08
What you can do is buy and hold PM's... never complain that the price is to low.. just buy more... no manipulation scheme can last forever silver and gold will be to expensive for you to afford all to soon... never wish for that day.

Good advice, Ranger. We really should thank the Comex & CFTC for allowing us to buy silver at bargain basement prices, below production costs of most mines. Whenever the big run does come, the paper shorts will not be able to stop the rise in price. Of course they will probably be long at that point. I for one just hope it doesn't happen too soon. I've got more silver to buy!

akak
16th March 2009, 23:08
I am not saying that I disbelieve Turk and GATA regarding the manipulation of the price of silver, but largely unlike gold, the majority of silver produced in any given year is used industrially and is not effectively hoarded. Given this fact, I am left wondering how any long term manipulation could not have long ago led to an OBVIOUS and extreme shortage of silver? I mean, we all know from history that when any price is fixed (by government, usually) at an artificially low level, then that product will go into shortage or disappear altogether from the market. That has not (yet) happened to silver, so where does the answer lie?

Argyria
16th March 2009, 23:15
For those who complain that the price of silver is too low, all I have to say is, mmm... I love the taste of your salty tears....;)

TheLoneRanger
17th March 2009, 00:40
I am not saying that I disbelieve Turk and GATA regarding the manipulation of the price of silver, but largely unlike gold, the majority of silver produced in any given year is used industrially and is not effectively hoarded. Given this fact, I am left wondering how any long term manipulation could not have long ago led to an OBVIOUS and extreme shortage of silver? I mean, we all know from history that when any price is fixed (by government, usually) at an artificially low level, then that product will go into shortage or disappear altogether from the market. That has not (yet) happened to silver, so where does the answer lie?


Akak... whoa back up.. about a hundred years... turn of last century about 1900 silver was stacked to the rafters some say as much as 12 Billion ounces.. folks been mining silver for ages and there was very very little industrial use for silver.

Photography was about the first really significant non monetary use of silver and developing film automagically did most of the wrok of recovering the silver use so there was no great industrail loss...

go back 50 years silver coins.. in the USA alone there were approzimately 12 Billion silver coins representing about 3 billion ounces.. in WW2 we melted down silver dollars to make the wiring for the Manhattan project about 122 million ounces just because copper was scarce we made silver nickels because nickel was scarce.. we were floating in silver The Mint held massive reserves no problem knocking out a half to three quarters billion ounces of silver coin a year ,, hell look at the production numbers on silver dollars when the mint really wanted to pump out silver dollars almost 100 million silver dollars plus all the small change in a single year... no biggy, need change make all you need...

Them days are gone... industry discovered silver and ways to use it that make silver nonrecoverable economically.. and it wasn't a big deal plenty of silver Billions of ounces ... then 100's of millions sitting up in comex and the mint... well almost 120 million ounce just for silver eagles before the mints reserve was used up .. now the mint has a hard time coming up with 20 million ounces for eagles and sliver proofs.. Comex doesn't have as much as there are silver eagles, ETF on it's best day has a piddling fraction of what used to circulate as common coin... but truck bearing benifit from the superior lubircitity ( thats really a word but I can't spell it) of silver.. what ya gonna do, sweep bearing dust off the superhighways?

Industry has grown in my lifetime from next to nothing to 80% of annual production and that extra 100 million ounces used up from old recycled silver has whittled away the vast mountains of silver, 2 Billion ounces that were mounded in the open, in literal silver hills next to refiners as late as 1980 .. scrap turned in during the great silver spike of 1980.. took refiners 2 years to melt that down to bullion... now all gone...

Silver price goes up folks buy more than they sell.. price goes down folks just buy and don't sell.. at Best Guess world wide maybe a billion ounces of silver in a world of 6 Billion people... very very different from 1900 when there was 12 Billion ounces in a world of 1 Billion folks..

The shortage is new,, it's recent, and with prices down , so mines are closed or cut back, the shortage is getting worster faster...

TheLoneRanger
17th March 2009, 00:55
Let me add a though as late as the 1950 the US goverment would buy any and all silver for 90 or 91 cents a troy ounce and sell it .. all you wanted for half a cent more per ounce... you could take paper money in and trade it at a fixed rate of 1.29 an ounce up thru 1968..

Thats why silver was a stable price.. nobody colud sell it for more than the goverment price because everybody knew you could get it from the goverment for 91.5 cents an ounce.. and if you wanted the little bottle of nuggets with the certificate you could get it direct from the Mint for a buck twenty-nine...

US goverment did that so the coins wouldn't end up worth more in silver than face value.. no corersion.. just willing to buy and sell any ammount no shortage, no market even, everybody sold at goverment price because nobody would pay more when they could buy it from the gooverment and nobody offered more because it was to easy to get at the goverment price... no fear of running out plenty for everybody ... and that worked until the 1960's...

Argyria
17th March 2009, 01:12
"Photography was about the first really significant non monetary use of silver and developing film automagically did most of the wrok of recovering the silver use so there was no great industrail loss... "

Not entirely true. Developing film does indeed recover some of the silver, but not all. I quote from Wikipedia.

"Photography used 24% of the silver consumed in 2001 in the form of silver nitrate and silver halides, while 33% was used in jewelry, 40% for industrial uses, and only 3% for coins and medals. [6] However the use of silver in photography does not appear to be declining, despite the switch to digital technology, since in 2007 of the 455.5 million ounces of silver used for industrial applications, over 128 million ounces (28%) were consumed by the photographic sector.[7]"

Photography continues to this day to be a big part of what is whittling down silver stockpiles above ground.

Since from this data we see that 455 million ounces were used in 2007 for industrial purposes, could anyone tell us how much was mined in 2007?

Another point to consider. Medical uses for silver have been ramping up for some time. It is singularly effective in treatment of burns. Medicine may become a substantial consumer of silver as time goes on. So I'm wondering, would 'humanitarian purposes' possibly qualify as a reason to ask people to turn in silver? I'll leave others to ponder that one more fully.

Golden
17th March 2009, 02:23
So I'm wondering, would 'humanitarian purposes' possibly qualify as a reason to ask people to turn in silver? I'll leave others to ponder that one more fully.

We all know that meds could be cheaper. Much cheaper. Are they ? No. Pharmaceutical companies are reaping big profits.
If they don't have to drop their prices for the benefit of all people, then we sure don't have to turn in our silver for free.
Besides, do you do everything that government tells you to do ? I would simply ignore such a call/order.

Argyria
17th March 2009, 03:11
I'm only saying they might ask. I actually doubt they would demand a turnin. I don't actually think 1933 can be repeated today. Too much information transfer, which means a larger, smarter consensus. Don't think it would work today. But the request would surely have some impact on the price, which I am not a good enough economist to work out all the details. Some would, I bet most wouldn't. They might offer a good price in FRN's, but PM holders might decline to accept that. It would be interesting.

Gümüş
17th March 2009, 04:56
I guess at that point I will be forced to come out and admit that I have had a gambling problem for some time. Maybe they will feel sorry for me and give a bailout for my unforseen losses. Hehehe.