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View Full Version : A few questions from a new hoarde....err...investor.



auptag
27th February 2009, 23:34
Hey all,

(Feel free to skip to questions directly, only coming to the top part of the post for background and other useless info) :)

Previous lurker...first time poster. First off, a disclaimer. I have gone back as far as I could and read many pages of posts over the last few days. (My eyes are currently burning from today's run) I realize that there are MANY multiple posts on many newbie questions...and I have tried to do my best to research my questions before posting and will TRY not to ask one of those questions that gets asked once a page....BUT....I guarantee nothing. I hope that's ok. (BTW, I have also tried multiple incantations of my questions in the search box. Sometimes it is helpful...sometimes not)

Second, many thanks to the wonderful posters on these boards. I would thank a few that really stand out as givers of good information...but I would hate to miss someone that I forget or who doesn't post as much. You know who you are.

New-ish to teh whole silver world. I say "-ish" because I have been "investing" in ASEs since I was about 8 and I got my first one. When I got a little older I tried to get 1 every couple of months (whatever my allowance would....allow). I was collecting them, along w/ a few Morgans, because they were "kick-ass" and because I liked collecting coins. Little did I know what that silver might really mean later. Of course...who knows what my buying average is since I did not keep very meticulous records as a 5th grader. So, now here I am as an adult (ha ha) looking to get into investing (long-term) and looking to get my hands on as much info as possible so as not to do anything foolish. Got a pretty small stash, but for all intents and purposes it's just a kid's coin collection.


Okay....now on w/ my question(s). Thanks to anyone who can provide info.

1. There is no FAQ on this website (unless I'm totally blind). Where would you suggest a "noobie" go to get good starting information without having to sift through countless threads and posts all day long. Is there such a document/place for the clueless to turn to? (The posts are very entertaining...it just takes a looooong time to find your necessary info, acronyms, strategies, SHTF scenarios, etc.)

2. I have read time and time again, SIS. If that is so, then why all the talk about diversifying? I understand having smaller and more fluid units such as 1oz and not just sitting on a pile of 100oz bars (*drool*), but why worry about having different types of 1oz rounds, 90%, 40%, etc? If SIS, why not just have all 1 & 10 oz (& 100 oz) 99.9% bars and rounds?

3. How do you keep yourself from going crazy, wasting all your time, and trying to get the best deal? After all...time is money...and I truly believe that. (Should it be changed to time is PM??)

4. I know every time someone talks about selling their physicial, people *gasp*, but I purchased 10 2008 ASE Proofs last year which have since shot WAY up in numismatic value to ~$80-$90+ on eBay...far more than their Ag value. Should I sell and use the cash to buy more silver?

5. If I do that, does it count towards lowering my average silver cost? That's not a bad short-term return on the coins and I'd be starting with a little bit of a "credit" towards my average, no?

6. I know that this has been talked about ad nauseum, but I just have to bring it up. I *LOVE* ASEs and I have really been interested in starting with Silver Maples. The coin collector in me wants to acquire as many of these as I can (they're so beautiful, perfect, and pretty well known and respected), but this SIS attitude really makes me want to purchase rounds and bars so that my FRNs will go further and lower my average cost. I keep going back and forth. I'm so confused.... :confused:

7. I might be answering my own question, but wondering why people don't want to store their PMs in safety deposit boxes. Besides, "if you can't touch it you don't own it," is it because of the possibility of PM metal holdings being illegal? Or is it something else?

Thank you all for your time and guidance.

pmstacker
27th February 2009, 23:49
Well i cant answer all your questions but if you are pretty well versed in numismatics then maybe the best place for you to start is in that area. Personally i have no idea about what is more valuable over something else so i just stack bars, they have no other value other than the metal contained within them. For me its just easier as i don't really want to collect coins, but thats just me, i wasn't introduced into that at any point in my life so for me it would take more work to get into. Alot of people only believe in physical assets they can hold themselves, the reason behind it is because many companies will sell you unallocated metals but whos to say they actually have any metals. So in essense you are just giving them money and hoping they will be honest and do the right thing. However if they go bankrupt, you could be sol, maybe not, but who knows. Also storing in a safe deposit box isn't such a good idea in the event the bank closes down, you'll have a nightmare getting your stuff back and if the market goes haywire, you could miss out on an oppurtunity. But most people here will agree if you can't hold it, you don't own it. Paper is just paper and with paper there is always the chance of defaulting, meaning you are sol. Anyhow i hope this helps alittle. Good luck with your adventure, and grab a book or 2 on the subject if you are serious about investing in pms, it'll help.

auptag
28th February 2009, 00:04
Well i cant answer all your questions but if you are pretty well versed in numismatics then maybe the best place for you to start is in that area.

Defintely a coin collector at heart...at least for now. And there are definitely people who sink their dollahs into ASE, Maples, Kooks, etc....in other words...pay a premium to have a recognizable, verifiable, standard, (hard to forge??) coin that, on top of Ag/Au value, has a monetary "value" as well. (They are also damn beautiful!) Clearly I'm not crazy, or at least not the ONLY one if I am crazy...just wondering if I should shift my strategy, either temporarily or permanently. There's just something about ASEs...takes me back to being a kid! I have read both sides....just need to figure it out for myself.


Alot of people only believe in physical assets they can hold themselves, the reason behind it is because many companies will sell you unallocated metals but whos to say they actually have any metals. So in essense you are just giving them money and hoping they will be honest and do the right thing. However if they go bankrupt, you could be sol, maybe not, but who knows.

So I hear (http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?t=4778)!! Yikes. I may have a hard time wrapping my head around certain things, but other than waiting to build up several ounces to reduce shipping, I don't think I could ever trust that someone was holding on to my silver "somewhere"...I mean...how fluid is that? Granted...could cut your investment on "high-velocity lead delivery devices" <-- Cracks me up!



Also storing in a safe deposit box isn't such a good idea in the event the bank closes down, you'll have a nightmare getting your stuff back and if the market goes haywire, you could miss out on an oppurtunity. But most people here will agree if you can't hold it, you don't own it. Paper is just paper and with paper there is always the chance of defaulting, meaning you are sol. Anyhow i hope this helps alittle. Good luck with your adventure, and grab a book or 2 on the subject if you are serious about investing in pms, it'll help.


Thanks for all the info!

Gen Ripper
28th February 2009, 00:31
My random mutterings:

I'd keep the ASEs, unless you really need the cash to buy regular ole bullion silver. Obviously you like them and they have performed well. I would keep the numismatics separate from your bullion stack. In the sense that the ASE have (atleast right now) some value beyond silver bullion.

The classic hedge would be to keep half your ASEs and take profits on the other half.

I wouldnt mix bullion and numis, it seems to me like they are two totally different games. I avoid the one based partly on perception, but that is just me.

For bullion I have gone to the cheapest source available. Who cares if you have to wait weeks for delivery. It will come and at the price you paid..

Nomen luni
28th February 2009, 06:49
Personally, I avoid numismatics like the plague, because they could lose their premium in a depression scenario, which is what we are facing. I would cash in the numismatic value for more silver. That said, if you are well versed in numismatics, you could always keep an eye out for a bargain to turn a quick profit, just don't rely on it as your nest egg.

goldminer
28th February 2009, 07:56
"...There is no FAQ on this website (unless I'm totally blind). Where would you suggest a "noobie" go to get good starting information without having to sift through countless threads and posts all day long."

You sound like a grade school student asking teachers to tell him everything he will learn in college. Don't be offended but my belief is that if something isn't important enough to a person that they're willing to invest time and effort to learn, then it's also not important enough for me to invest time and effort.

A good rule of life is "there's no free lunches"...if you want to learn you'll have to do the work.

If you haven't done it yet, google search and pull up the "Gold is Money" (GIM) forum. Acess the archives of the "Gold - Silver - Precious Metals" and "Purchasing Precious Metals" subject forums. There is a wealth of information there; you'll be able to find out just about anything you want re physical gold and silver and their acquisition, holding/storing, and trading out.

PSUDave
28th February 2009, 08:37
My thoughts on the SIS issue: I have to disagree with saying all silver is the same. Govt. minted coins are going to sell at a higher premium than a generic 1 oz. round. If someone were to have a coin and a generic round and said pick one, they are the same price, the vast majority, if not all, people are going to pick the coin. I don't buy into the 'survival silver' mad max mentality, where you'll be running around with your PM's and guns trying to barter with silver and gold coins for food. But if you do, more power to you. ;-)

clr8ter
28th February 2009, 09:11
I agree with Auptag, an area on here that gave basic starter info & acronyms would be helpful. (What does SIS mean?) I agree that searching the entire forum up front for specific info is too time consuming. I just started reading current postings and it eventually came.

I don't belive in SHTF too much, but yeah, small increments would be better. Best-known brands and US 90%.

I have gone crazy in the past, but eventually learned 2 things: 1. certain dealers are better than others ALWAYS, and 2. doesn't matter what I paid for it yesterday, today the price dropped $1.

If I paid $20 for a SAE & could now get $100, I would sell, and I would have made $80.

I like Maples, too. I consider them to be nearly equal to the SAE. I think the RCM makes more varieties (unc., proof, privy marks, colorized, olympics) of the Maple than we make of the SE. Why not collect one example each of them?

I would never put anything in a SDB. That's the 1st place the govt. will confiscate. If the bank fails, you might not be able to get access anytime you want. You have to pay for it. Questionable as to whether it's insured. And, if you suddenly die, anyone who wants access needs to be on the banks list. Just having a key is not good enough.

sunsetcliff
28th February 2009, 09:47
Welcome to the group. We are glad to have you.

First, people have different funds, goals, and needs.

Best to have a variety. Murphy rule- dont keep all your eggs in one basket.

I highly recommend to spread out the purchase. This way I get a feel for the market. After a few months- I can size up a listing pretty fast if it is worth the money.

Recall how when you 1st used the internet. Now compare then to your skill now. You are better at web use, right?

Same thing.

I buy most anything 10 oz down to 90% dimes. It depends on my money and the deal. I might not even really want 40%, but if seen at a great deal- I consider it.

I dont care for war nickels, or 1/2 oz or designer products. Nor do I chase nuismatic. Some of that is over priced. But believe me- after counting and sorting the stuff you get a feel for it fast.

I prefer clean. But not pristine.

Currently I have prices in mind. No higher then x.

Pace yourself.

What you think you want this moment- you might amend the plan next week.

To learn all you can- check out the youtube vids. Study it.

Bob Chapman is my current favorite.

Most of all- just do it.

We dont have the luxury of forever to build it up. yet- one can still buy at not too bad of prices.

1 oz rounds are probably the most versatile.
I did not want to know that.

larger then 10 oz tend to price move differently. I wont go higher then 10.

I recommend bullion direct.

auptag
1st March 2009, 00:06
@ all above. Thanks for the responses. Have a decent amount of info...though not enough...but that probably only comes with time I guess. Thanks.

@ yuio345o: Me <--Confused :confused:

balou2
1st March 2009, 01:16
@ yuio345o: Me <--Confused :confused:

Spam









.

auptag
1st March 2009, 01:23
O I C.

They're everywhere I guess.

auptag
9th March 2009, 18:19
Sorry for the bump guys...had another question that I couldn't find in the search and I didn't think deserved it's own thread.

When you buy mint coins, such as ASE or CSML and they are not in mint tube multiples of 20, how do they usually ship? I am interested in picking up some uncirc ASE from APMEX and if I don't order 20, 40, 60, etc I am wondering how the loose coins ship. I am interested in keeping them as pristine as possible.

Any ideas? Thanks.

PSUDave
9th March 2009, 18:25
Sorry for the bump guys...had another question that I couldn't find in the search and I didn't think deserved it's own thread.

When you buy mint coins, such as ASE or CSML and they are not in mint tube multiples of 20, how do they usually ship? I am interested in picking up some uncirc ASE from APMEX and if I don't order 20, 40, 60, etc I am wondering how the loose coins ship. I am interested in keeping them as pristine as possible.

Any ideas? Thanks.

They ship each coin in a plastic flip when you buy less than a roll.

auptag
9th March 2009, 18:42
They ship each coin in a plastic flip when you buy less than a roll.

Thanks! Figured, just wanted to make sure.

sunsetcliff
9th March 2009, 19:20
Sorry for the bump guys...had another question that I couldn't find in the search and I didn't think deserved it's own thread.

When you buy mint coins, such as ASE or CSML and they are not in mint tube multiples of 20, how do they usually ship? I am interested in picking up some uncirc ASE from APMEX and if I don't order 20, 40, 60, etc I am wondering how the loose coins ship. I am interested in keeping them as pristine as possible.

Any ideas? Thanks.

Bullion direct, catalogue ships with a tube. They have the best packaging.

auptag
9th March 2009, 19:23
Bullion direct, catalogue ships with a tube. They have the best packaging.

But what if I buy 10 or 24....still ships in tube? (Tubes are usually in 20s, right?)

Argentum
9th March 2009, 19:42
From my dealings, if you buy like 18 or something close to 20 they (BD) will still ship in the plastic tube and stuff a packing peanut in the tube to secure them. Or if your getting, say, 10 they will be in them plastic flip holders. Both come in very handy.

auptag
9th March 2009, 19:50
Giddyup!

:)

deweyf
14th August 2009, 23:11
I love reading all the old posts in here. A wealth of info. Great to have a place where people are willing to help like minded others or newbies.

Beretta 92D
16th August 2009, 02:25
If you are buying the SAE from BD remember they don't list the shape of the coins. If you buy them from the catalog is that a diff. story? Something to think about.

Argentum
17th August 2009, 20:26
I have never gotten but current year ASE's... both from the cat or nuc. All, as in EVERY coin was top notch. And I've moved a few ASE's ;o)

If anyone has gotten past years post it up... Heck, I would love to get some older ASE's! But they all ways come new in them plastic holders.... dang it all :P