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Matthew Shelley
11th August 2011, 13:50
I just saw a four cent bid offer spread in the lead month futures contract! That may not seem like much to a retail cash trader, but in the futures market that is astounding. Futures spread is normally half a cent. The recent volatility has widened it to one cent and I was seeing some two cent spreads which annoyed me, and which is why I said the current market is like watching a school of minnows. But four cents is not something you see in the middle of the trading day unless all of the large traders have folded their arms over their chests and the computerized traders have turned off their machines.

I'm still bullish for the long term, but for short term trading, to me it's step aside time.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

Gene Daniels
11th August 2011, 16:00
Thanks for the info Matt

What is Truth?
11th August 2011, 16:18
It figures, my five hundred ounces arrived today. Murphy's Law.

gollumthegreat
11th August 2011, 17:33
I just saw a four cent bid offer spread in the lead month futures contract! That may not seem like much to a retail cash trader, but in the futures market that is astounding. Futures spread is normally half a cent. The recent volatility has widened it to one cent and I was seeing some two cent spreads which annoyed me, and which is why I said the current market is like watching a school of minnows. But four cents is not something you see in the middle of the trading day unless all of the large traders have folded their arms over their chests and the computerized traders have turned off their machines.

I'm still bullish for the long term, but for short term trading, to me it's step aside time.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.


Poor Matt. Are those poor Paper Lead Cockroaches extorting more than you Paper Silver Cockroaches?

Mizzle
12th August 2011, 06:11
Poor Matt. Are those poor Paper Lead Cockroaches extorting more than you Paper Silver Cockroaches?

What is wrong with your brain?

gollumthegreat
12th August 2011, 06:19
What is wrong with your brain?


Says the idiot who thinks Silver is $10 overpriced.

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 09:57
Poor Matt. Are those poor Paper Lead Cockroaches extorting more than you Paper Silver Cockroaches?

How little you know about the markets.

"lead month futures contract" does not refer to the Lead metals futures market, it refers to the primary Silver futures contract. There are no Lead futures in this country. I think you should do a little more studying before you give us any more of your 'expert' commentary on the markets.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 10:01
It figures, my five hundred ounces arrived today. Murphy's Law.

I certainly don't see anything wrong with a new cash position right now. As I said, I am still quite bullish for the long term. I just think that the market is screwing anyone who takes a short term trade in either direction.

silverheartbone
12th August 2011, 10:27
Yet another stinking shell.


How little you know about the markets.

"lead month futures contract" does not refer to the Lead metals futures market, it refers to the primary Silver futures contract. There are no Lead futures in this country. I think you should do a little more studying before you give us any more of your 'expert' commentary on the markets. http://forums.silverseek.com/images/icons/icon13.png

Lead Futures Trading Basics (http://www.theoptionsguide.com/lead-futures.aspx)

Gene Daniels
12th August 2011, 13:32
How little you know about the markets.

"lead month futures contract" does not refer to the Lead metals futures market, it refers to the primary Silver futures contract. There are no Lead futures in this country. I think you should do a little more studying before you give us any more of your 'expert' commentary on the markets.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

I notice that it really bugs people on here when Matt knows what he is talking about. I'm not saying that he knows everything, or that I like paper-trading. But it is pretty clear that Matt knows about trading in the markets. And like it or not, that is where the POS is controlled at this point in time.

There may be a day that paper silver no longer controls the POS, but until that happens, it would do all of us some good to listen to Matt's perspective. I for one appreciate that he comes on this forum and shares insights from closer to the trading pit.

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 13:41
Yet another stinking shell.
Lead Futures Trading Basics

When did the London Metals Exchange move to the United States? Nobody told me about this! Oh wait. Is this another post where you don't have a clue and your attempt to swipe at me shows that you don't know what you are talking about either?

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 14:09
I notice that it really bugs people on here when Matt knows what he is talking about. I'm not saying that he knows everything, or that I like paper-trading. But it is pretty clear that Matt knows about trading in the markets. And like it or not, that is where the POS is controlled at this point in time.
There may be a day that paper silver no longer controls the POS, but until that happens, it would do all of us some good to listen to Matt's perspective. I for one appreciate that he comes on this forum and shares insights from closer to the trading pit.

Thanks. I know there are people here who think I'm an a**hole, but on the trading floor that's considered a term of endearment. I have a woman friend who grew up on the floor like me and it's her family's business as well. You have to have a strong personality to make it down there. If angered, she could make a truck driver blush. Now she's married with two kids and has a swear jar on the kitchen counter that earns dollars. The swear jar is in danger of becoming independently wealthy.

I really, really hope sanity and large traders come back to the market next week, this week was just awful and I'm glad it's over. On a side note, I spoke to someone who says he was talking to Andrew Maguire and Maguire told him that he was trading 200 contracts of Silver at a time right now. I highly question that statement because I watch the bids and offers all the time, and I would have certainly noticed if there was that much size was running around in futures contracts on short term trades. As would have all my colleagues. And we would have been taking severe advantage of his trading.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 14:46
?
So, what are the implications of this. Positive or negative for short term?

All I have seen it doing is causing volatility in both directions and it is making a hash out of most technical analysis. I have seen loads and loads of false signals that almost immediately fail. If all the large players have stepped aside, the market is just going to flop around like a fish on the bottom of a fishing boat.

valerb
12th August 2011, 16:26
I notice that it really bugs people on here when Matt knows what he is talking about. I'm not saying that he knows everything, or that I like paper-trading. But it is pretty clear that Matt knows about trading in the markets. And like it or not, that is where the POS is controlled at this point in time.

There may be a day that paper silver no longer controls the POS, but until that happens, it would do all of us some good to listen to Matt's perspective. I for one appreciate that he comes on this forum and shares insights from closer to the trading pit.

There are a lot more than you think that appreciate Matt's posts, most just read and never post anything. Keep posting Matt, it's always good to understand how the other side of the market works that really impacts our prices.

valerb
12th August 2011, 16:34
Thanks. I know there are people here who think I'm an a**hole, but on the trading floor that's considered a term of endearment. I have a woman friend who grew up on the floor like me and it's her family's business as well. You have to have a strong personality to make it down there. If angered, she could make a truck driver blush. Now she's married with two kids and has a swear jar on the kitchen counter that earns dollars. The swear jar is in danger of becoming independently wealthy.

I really, really hope sanity and large traders come back to the market next week, this week was just awful and I'm glad it's over. On a side note, I spoke to someone who says he was talking to Andrew Maguire and Maguire told him that he was trading 200 contracts of Silver at a time right now. I highly question that statement because I watch the bids and offers all the time, and I would have certainly noticed if there was that much size was running around in futures contracts on short term trades. As would have all my colleagues. And we would have been taking severe advantage of his trading.


Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.


Matt, do you see the trades coming across a wire like at the brokers? I watch SLV trade on line at Scottrade and it is more like a shooting gallery than a trading floor. It's like every half second another one is up and gone!! 500,100,200,2000,300,3000,200,100

Matthew Shelley
12th August 2011, 16:56
Matt, do you see the trades coming across a wire like at the brokers? I watch SLV trade on line at Scottrade and it is more like a shooting gallery than a trading floor. It's like every half second another one is up and gone!! 500,100,200,2000,300,3000,200,100

In the futures side it's even faster and more furious. The bids and offers are constantly there and constantly changing the prices. If you want a live quote system demo to see how it looks in real time, most brokerage houses will be happy to oblige.

valerb
12th August 2011, 17:46
In the futures side it's even faster and more furious. The bids and offers are constantly there and constantly changing the prices. If you want a live quote system demo to see how it looks in real time, most brokerage houses will be happy to oblige.


Thanks, but no thanks, I think SLV is moving too fast for me to follow.

gollumthegreat
12th August 2011, 23:22
How little you know about the markets.

"lead month futures contract" does not refer to the Lead metals futures market, it refers to the primary Silver futures contract. There are no Lead futures in this country. I think you should do a little more studying before you give us any more of your 'expert' commentary on the markets.

Matthew Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.



I'm not interest in your Paper Markets Shelley. You are a bunch of Parasites on the backside of humanity. Call me shallow, but I'm only interested in the Physical. And finally, I reserve my expert judgement on anything that flies, walks, crawls, or slithers across this planet. I'm sure your Paper Silver market doesn't fit in the walking catagory.

Matthew Shelley
15th August 2011, 09:18
I'm not interest in your Paper Markets Shelley. You are a bunch of Parasites on the backside of humanity. Call me shallow, but I'm only interested in the Physical. And finally, I reserve my expert judgement on anything that flies, walks, crawls, or slithers across this planet. I'm sure your Paper Silver market doesn't fit in the walking catagory.

Yet, I'm interested in your ignorant "expert" commentary so I can correct it. I don't want people who need education regarding the markets to learn incorrect information and lose money because of it.

wdwexe
15th August 2011, 09:33
Yet, I'm interested in your ignorant "expert" commentary so I can correct it. I don't want people who need education regarding the markets to learn incorrect information and lose money because of it.

Hi Matty. To those that need educating, yes Matty seems to know much about the market. I stay far away from his market. Get pysical possesion !!!!!!!!!!!!
Also note the amount of posts, and time Matty spends on this site. I would need to clone myself several times to match his effort to educate you if I had the know in the paper market. Yes, Matty claims his boss knows what he does all day. If you go back and look at some of his early posts on this site, you will see he started here to advetise his services. I think if I was as good as he, I wouldnt need to use your money. I would just tripple my own until the end of time.

silverheartbone
15th August 2011, 09:36
I notice that it really bugs people on here when Matt knows what he is talking about. I'm not saying that he knows everything, or that I like paper-trading. But it is pretty clear that Matt knows about trading in the markets. And like it or not, that is where the POS is controlled at this point in time.

There may be a day that paper silver no longer controls the POS, but until that happens, it would do all of us some good to listen to Matt's perspective. I for one appreciate that he comes on this forum and shares insights from closer to the trading pit.
The trading pit of vipers.

You are correct in your assertion that it bugs people that "Shelley" knows what he is posting about. Make no mistake about it. It has become a tool of pure badness, the financial derivatives market. (http://www.theoptionsguide.com/derivative.aspx)

Gene and Jojo, IMO this is a silver forum, NOT a place where kabbal paper pushers should be welcome even one little bit.

gollumthegreat
15th August 2011, 09:42
Hi Matty. To those that need educating, yes Matty seems to know much about the market. I stay far away from his market. Get pysical possesion !!!!!!!!!!!!
Also note the amount of posts, and time Matty spends on this site. I would need to clone myself several times to match his effort to educate you if I had the know in the paper market. Yes, Matty claims his boss knows what he does all day. If you go back and look at some of his early posts on this site, you will see he started here to advetise his services. I think if I was as good as he, I wouldnt need to use your money. I would just tripple my own until the end of time.

Lol. Yes, I stay away from MattyMart.

silver"smith"
15th August 2011, 10:01
The question of whether Matt knows anything about his particular area of trading is not in question. He has contributed a fair amount of good knowledge and has certainly helped a few people here however we can see that a large number of other posters couldn't care less. For me, some of his comments are truly interesting and informative and I want to know how it really is in the pits.

What gets me is that I really want to see the US go down the toilet and anarchy reign (for just a little while) so that my stocked pantry, Mossberg shotgun and of course my stack of silver will be relevant and very much needed. What can I say, I want to exercise my survivalist mentality if only for a number of months. I think I would find it exciting.

wdwexe
15th August 2011, 10:31
The question of whether Matt knows anything about his particular area of trading is not in question. He has contributed a fair amount of good knowledge and has certainly helped a few people here however we can see that a large number of other posters couldn't care less. For me, some of his comments are truly interesting and informative and I want to know how it really is in the pits.

What gets me is that I really want to see the US go down the toilet and anarchy reign (for just a little while) so that my stocked pantry, Mossberg shotgun and of course my stack of silver will be relevant and very much needed. What can I say, I want to exercise my survivalist mentality if only for a number of months. I think I would find it exciting.

You are sick! Yea I feel that way too some times. From what I know about the future, and what prophesy predicts, I'm wondering if anyone will wake up. I can't believe not only have not woke up yet, they don't even want to look at the proof.
Yes to Matty posting some interesting stuff. I for one sure do not like his arrogance or his motives as I perceive them to be. I have been wrong before.

silver"smith"
15th August 2011, 10:47
I guess, thinking about it I just want my boring humdrum routine to vanish for a while. I don't have any small children of my own so I can justify having a horrid outlook for the future. My ball and chain will shut up about my constant comments about the nasty future in store for us and my son who now is a police officer in the Canadian Forces will still get his quarters and 3 squares a day regardless so I basicaly don't care if financial armageddon does happen. I'm set for life. For however long that is.

Gollum the great believes he is too but I like my spot in the rural Ontario wilderness better than downtown Brixton or Tottenham. Ouch!

gollumthegreat
15th August 2011, 11:05
Gollum the great believes he is too but I like my spot in the rural Ontario wilderness better than downtown Brixton or Tottenham. Ouch!

I live in the Scottish Highlands and I can get my hands on a Purdey and I can live off the land so I will be better off than most. The Highland environment would defeat anyone from Brixton or Tottenham before the locals broke a sweat.

Gene Daniels
15th August 2011, 11:26
What gets me is that I really want to see the US go down the toilet and anarchy reign (for just a little while) so that my stocked pantry, Mossberg shotgun and of course my stack of silver will be relevant and very much needed. What can I say, I want to exercise my survivalist mentality if only for a number of months. I think I would find it exciting.

I am an anthropologist, I have spent most of the last 15 years living outside the US. I have personally experienced social anarchy - if you understood what it is like you really would not want that to happen here. It is one thing to visit a place like that, even live there for a year or two. But you always know you can go home. You know that if the SHTF you can grab your little blue passport and bug out. But if that stuff were to happen wide scale in the US, it would not be fun. Take my word for it.

You can assure you, you are better off going to your grave still holding your unspent shotshells than having lived to see the day you needed them to shoot someone to keep your family safe.

That said, I agree that we should be prepared for if something awful happens in the US (N. America) - but I CATEGORICALLY argue that we don't want it to happen.

Matthew Shelley
15th August 2011, 12:02
I am an anthropologist, I have spent most of the last 15 years living outside the US. I have personally experienced social anarchy - if you understood what it is like you really would not want that to happen here. It is one thing to visit a place like that, even live there for a year or two. But you always know you can go home. You know that if the SHTF you can grab your little blue passport and bug out. But if that stuff were to happen wide scale in the US, it would not be fun. Take my word for it.
You can assure you, you are better off going to your grave still holding your unspent shotshells than having lived to see the day you needed them to shoot someone to keep your family safe.
That said, I agree that we should be prepared for if something awful happens in the US (N. America) - but I CATEGORICALLY argue that we don't want it to happen.

That's cool! I studied anthropology in college, and the subject has fascinated me my whole life.

Matthew Shelley
17th August 2011, 11:22
so Matt, what are you seeing this week? Have the large traders moved back in?

I haven't seen it yet. I had a client who wanted to get long this morning and I said "Wait until AFTER you hear the cannonfire.".

silverheartbone
17th August 2011, 11:41
so Matt, what are you seeing this week? Have the large traders moved back in?

Now you didn't really expect anything from them for free?

TheLoneRanger
17th August 2011, 11:48
The question of whether Matt knows anything about his particular area of trading is not in question. He has contributed a fair amount of good knowledge and has certainly helped a few people here however we can see that a large number of other posters couldn't care less. For me, some of his comments are truly interesting and informative and I want to know how it really is in the pits.

What gets me is that I really want to see the US go down the toilet and anarchy reign (for just a little while) so that my stocked pantry, Mossberg shotgun and of course my stack of silver will be relevant and very much needed. What can I say, I want to exercise my survivalist mentality if only for a number of months. I think I would find it exciting.

You are from Canada right? How about, if you want to play "shoot the neighbors so my Cannoli is safe" hows about we all wish for Canada to "go down the Toilet and anarchy reign" ( just for a little while).... that way ... you can exercise your survivalist mentality without disturbing alot of people or disrupting a large part of the worlds day to day life.

And you have the chutzpah to call me goofy... Irony can be so ironic.

Steadfast
17th August 2011, 12:43
I am an anthropologist, I have spent most of the last 15 years living outside the US. I have personally experienced social anarchy - if you understood what it is like you really would not want that to happen here. It is one thing to visit a place like that, even live there for a year or two. But you always know you can go home. You know that if the SHTF you can grab your little blue passport and bug out. But if that stuff were to happen wide scale in the US, it would not be fun. Take my word for it.

You can assure you, you are better off going to your grave still holding your unspent shotshells than having lived to see the day you needed them to shoot someone to keep your family safe.

That said, I agree that we should be prepared for if something awful happens in the US (N. America) - but I CATEGORICALLY argue that we don't want it to happen.


hear hear! well said!

I for one just purchased a "Glock 21" .45 cal, semi-auto handgun 2 days ago...
just in case things get STUPID here in the States.

If the dollar survives and we avoid the looming Chaos, I will still own an excellent Firing range toy.
If things get bad... well... there you are....

Everything I buy to "prepare" also has other uses in peacetime...
That way I still get my family mostly ready and also don't FEEL that paranoid...

I am somewhat ready (who is every FULLY ready?) in all categories except for water and power... Those are next...

I NEVER, in my WILDEST DREAMS, imagined I would EVER have to make such "nutty survivalist" statements like this...
but with this openly hostile anti-American President in charge, with all his Commie Pinko lackeys in power,
here is where we find ourselves.

The situation in the USA is quite insane....and getting MORE ridiculous by the day...
at least I am awake...

------------------------------------------

By the way I too like Matty's "pitt advice" and stories...
He has much to learn about what influences Physical Silver, but he still an interesting angle to read.

silver"smith"
17th August 2011, 21:41
You are from Canada right? How about, if you want to play "shoot the neighbors so my Cannoli is safe" hows about we all wish for Canada to "go down the Toilet and anarchy reign" ( just for a little while).... that way ... you can exercise your survivalist mentality without disturbing alot of people or disrupting a large part of the worlds day to day life.

And you have the chutzpah to call me goofy... Irony can be so ironic.

The comment arose from a weak moment, and after a couple of Rye and Cokes. Still, the only fun I'm ever going to have will have to come from our neighbours to the south because our economy and dollar is rock solid right now. So I guess you're stuck with it.

BTW, I hope you're not going to continue these "goofy" comments too long...I CAN apologize if need be.

silver"smith"
17th August 2011, 21:50
hear hear! well said!

I for one just purchased a "Glock 21" .45 cal, semi-auto handgun 2 days ago...
just in case things get STUPID here in the States.

If the dollar survives and we avoid the looming Chaos, I will still own an excellent Firing range toy.
If things get bad... well... there you are....

Everything I buy to "prepare" also has other uses in peacetime...
That way I still get my family mostly ready and also don't FEEL that paranoid...

I am somewhat ready (who is every FULLY ready?) in all categories except for water and power... Those are next...

I NEVER, in my WILDEST DREAMS, imagined I would EVER have to make such "nutty survivalist" statements like this...
but with this openly hostile anti-American President in charge, with all his Commie Pinko lackeys in power,
here is where we find ourselves.

The situation in the USA is quite insane....and getting MORE ridiculous by the day...
at least I am awake...

------------------------------------------

By the way I too like Matty's "pitt advice" and stories...
He has much to learn about what influences Physical Silver, but he still an interesting angle to read.

Hear Hear...is right. Just the fact that you are uncomfortable about actively stocking up on supplies AND talking about the situation makes me believe that more and more people are getting it. There's going be a sh itstorm coming in the US and when Osama takes away more unemployment money from the masses come Xmas, this will drive another nail in the coffin and going to piss a whole lot more people off.

Fire's burning...fire's burning, draw nearer draw nearer..

buffalo3
17th August 2011, 23:19
Just going for the top 10 of no clue.

valerb
17th August 2011, 23:48
Hear Hear...is right. Just the fact that you are uncomfortable about actively stocking up on supplies AND talking about the situation makes me believe that more and more people are getting it. There's going be a sh itstorm coming in the US and when Osama takes away more unemployment money from the masses come Xmas, this will drive another nail in the coffin and going to piss a whole lot more people off.

Fire's burning...fire's burning, draw nearer draw nearer..


I'm curious, just what do you think is going to take place in any of your wildest fantasies?

Do you see millions of Americans storming the streets in roaming gangs looting and burning businesses and homes? In other words a good old fashioned raping and pillaging of the land.

You do realize that the vast majority of Americans are still working and we are the most heavily armed populace in the world!!!

It's one thing for all those guns to be pointed at our government in a throw out the government effort, but I think we are one hell of a long way off from any MAD MAX scenario.

So short of an effort to ditch our government, just what do you think those millions of people are going to be doing when the funds you are talking about stop?

Keep in mind that we probably have at least 10 - 20 million former military trained men and women in this country and they are more than likely the ones to be armed more than any one else. That also includes TheLoneRanger if I'm not mistaken.

This isn't the UK where the citizens are out on the streets trying to protect their neighborhoods with clubs. We probably have more semi-automatic rifles than most armies in the world and that may very well include our own. Fifty years ago, everyone owned a shotgun. Today, everyone owns a handgun and a semi-automatic rifle and maybe a shotgun.

buffalo3
18th August 2011, 00:02
And 10-20 million that are tired of being lied to.

TheLoneRanger
18th August 2011, 02:35
IMHO... SHTF in two basic ways.. individually.. lose a job, illness, maybe divorce, house burns down, and you should be prepared for that.. back up cash, a supply of food you can use so as to stretch your dollar , insurance in some cases, valuables not all in one place, bank account, brokerage account, that kind of thing.

Or community sized .. neighborhood , up to national or even world.. flood , toraado, hurricane, earthquake , social unrest, civil war, economic colapse.

Let's face it, S*** happens everyday, and S*** is going to continue to happen everyday to somebody , big or small and you ain't special.. you ain't special if it happens to you and you ain't special if it doesn't happen to you. IMHO folks should put a certain priority on having the basics .. water, food, shelter, protection, and friends you can count on.. and being a friend that can be counted on. Family counts too.. or family should count too.. but friends you pick .. and I don't mean clicky clicky facebook friends.. folks you break bread with, likeminded folks, worship with , work with, play with, discuss and argue about the bigger questions with. .. People who you think have it together and think you have it together.

How do you prepare for SHTF .. know how to use stuff. First aid kit is as good as a brick in a backpack if you don't know first aid. So is a gun. Guns don't commit crimes by themselves and guns don't protect you by themselves, they are not a magic charm. Using firearms is as much a martial art as fencing or karate. Having a rifle and going hunting is kind of pointless if you can't dress and butcher game and cook it properly. Having a tacticool wonder 9 is as good as a pair of pinking shears if you have not recieved professional training, and practiced that training on a regular basis ... personally I recomend IDPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDaVIbJ4AU http://www.idpa.com/clubs.asp but there are other options NRA classes http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx Appleseed is very good http://appleseedinfo.org/.

Helps a lot if you know the names of the weeds in your yard.. many are edible.. everybody wants to be the big bad hunter .. that is a lot of walking and carrying big dead animals arround .. dandilions are easier to find, carry, and prepare as are about 100 other plants.. know which trees you can eat.. it's important in the dead of winter when there are no green things or fruits or vegitables.. Slippery Elm inner bark is 5 times as nutritious as oatmeal, you really should look up how to cook a tree..... Knowing the basics of finding good water or making good water out of bad is real important. It isn't so much about being able to start a fire as to make a useful fire that you can cook on or that will keep you warm when you need to be warm.

Let's face it, survival is so easy a caveman can do it, or you wouldn't be here. But if you don't know good water from bad, edible plants from poisonous, where the meat on a squirrel is, how to tell a good egg from a bad egg , or what kind of wheat you need to make bread and how to grind it and how to catch wild yeast, tame and raise it so it will make bread instead of crackers for you.. ( can't use cake flour for bread , find out why.. and did you know the entire North American Durham Wheat crop essentially failed this year.. it is used to make pasta) , and how to grow a pumpkin from stratch, yes Virginia pumpkins are food, parsnips too. If you don't know these things, when society breaks down so do you when the Mountain House and the canned peas runs out.

If you know how to do stuff and use stuff then when you find stuff you will be able to do useful stuff with it ... Knew a guy that had bought and stored 26 cases of Mountain House freezed dried food in #10 cans .. 3 months worth ... I gave him a valuable survival tip... buy a can opener... he had forgot.

Todays tip .. you have a weeks worth of water in your water heater for 4 people. Your homework.. find out how to get it out with no water pressure and how to make it not taste like a rusty pipe.

Work out a deal with close friends, you will help them if they will help you. That is how cavemen made it thru bad times.

valerb
18th August 2011, 06:43
IMHO... SHTF in two basic ways.. individually.. lose a job, illness, maybe divorce, house burns down, and you should be prepared for that.. back up cash, a supply of food you can use so as to stretch your dollar , insurance in some cases, valuables not all in one place, bank account, brokerage account, that kind of thing.

Or community sized .. neighborhood , up to national or even world.. flood , toraado, hurricane, earthquake , social unrest, civil war, economic colapse.

Let's face it, S*** happens everyday, and S*** is going to continue to happen everyday to somebody , big or small and you ain't special.. you ain't special if it happens to you and you ain't special if it doesn't happen to you. IMHO folks should put a certain priority on having the basics .. water, food, shelter, protection, and friends you can count on.. and being a friend that can be counted on. Family counts too.. or family should count too.. but friends you pick .. and I don't mean clicky clicky facebook friends.. folks you break bread with, likeminded folks, worship with , work with, play with, discuss and argue about the bigger questions with. .. People who you think have it together and think you have it together.

How do you prepare for SHTF .. know how to use stuff. First aid kit is as good as a brick in a backpack if you don't know first aid. So is a gun. Guns don't commit crimes by themselves and guns don't protect you by themselves, they are not a magic charm. Using firearms is as much a martial art as fencing or karate. Having a rifle and going hunting is kind of pointless if you can't dress and butcher game and cook it properly. Having a tacticool wonder 9 is as good as a pair of pinking shears if you have not recieved professional training, and practiced that training on a regular basis ... personally I recomend IDPA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eFDaVIbJ4AU http://www.idpa.com/clubs.asp but there are other options NRA classes http://www.nrainstructors.org/searchcourse.aspx Appleseed is very good http://appleseedinfo.org/.

Helps a lot if you know the names of the weeds in your yard.. many are edible.. everybody wants to be the big bad hunter .. that is a lot of walking and carrying big dead animals arround .. dandilions are easier to find, carry, and prepare as are about 100 other plants.. know which trees you can eat.. it's important in the dead of winter when there are no green things or fruits or vegitables.. Slippery Elm inner bark is 5 times as nutritious as oatmeal, you really should look up how to cook a tree..... Knowing the basics of finding good water or making good water out of bad is real important. It isn't so much about being able to start a fire as to make a useful fire that you can cook on or that will keep you warm when you need to be warm.

Let's face it, survival is so easy a caveman can do it, or you wouldn't be here. But if you don't know good water from bad, edible plants from poisonous, where the meat on a squirrel is, how to tell a good egg from a bad egg , or what kind of wheat you need to make bread and how to grind it and how to catch wild yeast, tame and raise it so it will make bread instead of crackers for you.. ( can't use cake flour for bread , find out why.. and did you know the entire North American Durham Wheat crop essentially failed this year.. it is used to make pasta) , and how to grow a pumpkin from stratch, yes Virginia pumpkins are food, parsnips too. If you don't know these things, when society breaks down so do you when the Mountain House and the canned peas runs out.

If you know how to do stuff and use stuff then when you find stuff you will be able to do useful stuff with it ... Knew a guy that had bought and stored 26 cases of Mountain House freezed dried food in #10 cans .. 3 months worth ... I gave him a valuable survival tip... buy a can opener... he had forgot.

Todays tip .. you have a weeks worth of water in your water heater for 4 people. Your homework.. find out how to get it out with no water pressure and how to make it not taste like a rusty pipe.

Work out a deal with close friends, you will help them if they will help you. That is how cavemen made it thru bad times.


You didn't comment, but you do have a military or police background don't you??

I recall you saying something about having land mines around and booby traps in your house.;)

TheLoneRanger
18th August 2011, 08:55
Military . And I never said mines .... I just said check your local laws.. items like this http://www.defensedevices.com/terminator.html may be legal to help safeguard your stack...

silver"smith"
18th August 2011, 21:45
Military . And I never said mines .... I just said check your local laws.. items like this http://www.defensedevices.com/terminator.html may be legal to help safeguard your stack...

I don't want to be the wet blanket for everyone but you can be prepared all you want. IF there was a doomsday scenario and I guess I don't want it to happen however all these 10-20 million ex military and policeman with all their guns and stored food and survival skills are going to eat each other to death. All these super trained indiviaduals are going to be able to "see" the sure signs of organization in their neighbours and because they want what you have or because they want to be big man on the block or just because of spite, them and their posse who they have bullied will come after you and when it's all said and done the only people left alive are the accountants, the Wendy's junior managers and the gas bar attendants. This is the American Way. Nobody will work and cordinate and pool their resources because in a major doomsday scenario, it's everyman for himself. That's how you people operate. Time and time again it's been proven.

eagleproof
18th August 2011, 22:34
I don't want to be the wet blanket for everyone but you can be prepared all you want. IF there was a doomsday scenario and I guess I don't want it to happen however all these 10-20 million ex military and policeman with all their guns and stored food and survival skills are going to eat each other to death. All these super trained indiviaduals are going to be able to "see" the sure signs of organization in their neighbours and because they want what you have or because they want to be big man on the block or just because of spite, them and their posse who they have bullied will come after you and when it's all said and done the only people left alive are the accountants, the Wendy's junior managers and the gas bar attendants. This is the American Way. Nobody will work and cordinate and pool their resources because in a major doomsday scenario, it's everyman for himself. That's how you people operate. Time and time again it's been proven.

We'll just put neighborhood watch on steroids.

TheLoneRanger
18th August 2011, 22:48
I don't want to be the wet blanket for everyone but you can be prepared all you want. IF there was a doomsday scenario and I guess I don't want it to happen however all these 10-20 million ex military and policeman with all their guns and stored food and survival skills are going to eat each other to death. All these super trained indiviaduals are going to be able to "see" the sure signs of organization in their neighbours and because they want what you have or because they want to be big man on the block or just because of spite, them and their posse who they have bullied will come after you and when it's all said and done the only people left alive are the accountants, the Wendy's junior managers and the gas bar attendants. This is the American Way. Nobody will work and cordinate and pool their resources because in a major doomsday scenario, it's everyman for himself. That's how you people operate. Time and time again it's been proven.

You aren't being a wet blanket.. you are just unfamiliar with History. Where has your scenario ever played out? US Civil war, the current revolutions in Lybia and Syria.. the actual deaths run under 2% of the population. US Civil war, we lost 0.5% total all four years to combat and 1% to disease. Rwanda ran about 8% , Germany and Russia counting genocide and aerial bombings got up in the 8-10% range. Cambodia about 13% as an extreme case over about 4 years.

It is seldom "every man for themselves" Humans knit together under stress .. the family, clan, tribe, community, village. Local commerce continues, as long as the weather premits farming goes on. Local authorities develope into some form of government to provide some semblance of order. Life goes on. Even during the Great plagues were deaths from disease reached as high as 1/3rd of the population in some areas, Nations continued, local governance continued, farming and commerce continued.. yes there was great social displacement but life went on. There aren't any "New" or "Novel" SHTF's .. Humanity has been thru every imaginable calamity dozens of times and the best survivors survive more often than not, the least prepared do not survive in as high a precentage. Just the way it is. The basic skills of being able to find, build, or grow the basic needs , water, food, shelter, create community, and find mates outside your own blood line goes on.. interactions between different groups creates commerce and wealth .. hasn't changed in all of recorded history.. don't see why it would be any different next time the SHTF.

You say "Time and time again it's been proven" .. I study this stuff.. always happy to find new examples to study.. you seem to think you have many examples I am unfamiliar with, I sure would appreciate if you shared some specifics.

valerb
18th August 2011, 22:57
Military . And I never said mines .... I just said check your local laws.. items like this http://www.defensedevices.com/terminator.html may be legal to help safeguard your stack...

I was only kidding about the "mines".

It's starting to come back to me now. When the rest of us were talking about opening up with AK47's on a burglar, you were the compassionate one. As I remember your attitude about handling a burglar went something like this:

If a burglar, broke into your house, you felt as though he was probably mentally disturbed and in serious need of electro shock therapy and you felt the moral obligation to pay for an on the spot treatment!!!

TheLoneRanger
18th August 2011, 23:15
LOL.. I do not intend to kill anybody over "things", or torture anybody. There are exceptions, if somebody was trying to break into my weapons room, I would , due to the potential for other deaths later and general risk to the public, have to make a hard call .. but cars, TV, and other insured things.. no. Doesn't mean I won't use my professional skills and some ingenuity to make theft as difficult and unattractive as possible.. but so long as you pose no credible threat to the life and safety of me and mine you will live to face trial. I don't like killing... it gives me bad dreams later.

valerb
19th August 2011, 12:38
LOL.. I do not intend to kill anybody over "things", or torture anybody. There are exceptions, if somebody was trying to break into my weapons room, I would , due to the potential for other deaths later and general risk to the public, have to make a hard call .. but cars, TV, and other insured things.. no. Doesn't mean I won't use my professional skills and some ingenuity to make theft as difficult and unattractive as possible.. but so long as you pose no credible threat to the life and safety of me and mine you will live to face trial. I don't like killing... it gives me bad dreams later.


That's what I meant, by elctro shock therapy. A little stun action and then in handcuffs for the law enforcement officers to haul off to jail.

I'm not wild about the idea of killing an intruder, but I would try and kill someone if I found them in my house. I wouldn't know if they were armed, crazy, on PCP or what there intentions were. If I hit them once I would shoot them at least one or two more times to make sure they were not moving. The last thing I would want is to have some one down and then have them pull out a hand gun and start blasting away at me. My weapon of choice for home defense is not my pistol, but my semi-automatic rifle loaded with 7.62 full metal jacket rounds in 30 round clips. Take cover behind a sofa, TV, wall, it doesn't matter, those old NATO rounds will reach out and touch someone so matter where they are hiding in the house. I guess it all depends on what you were trained on in the Service. In my case it was the M-1 and even when we had the M-14's we still used the M-1's for competition as there were a more accurate weapon, at least back in the early 60's. I've spent a lot of time at the range with my pistol and have no where near the confidence with it as the rifle.

My homes defense is nothing more than simple lights and lots of them. While most of my neighbors turn off all their outdoor lights at night, my house it lite up like a Christmas tree, inside and out. Is there someone awake in there and how do I even approach the house without being seen. Our living breathing burglar alarm system consists of three dogs that love to do nothing but bark at the faintest noise in the house.

beach miner
19th August 2011, 13:08
I guess they brought out the M14 when you where getting ready to leave the Army----Thank You For Your Service. The M14 went on. It became the Most Battle Ready Rifle Ever Built For Combat. An M1 Grand on Steroids. The 308 cartridge is just about 5% less powerful than the 06; however, it has proved to be more accurate. My proof is the Camp Perry Shooting Matches where all branches of the Armed Services compete, as well as Civilians. The line of shooters firing at the 1000 yard iron sight targets are all firing m14/m1As (civilian model). It is The Most Accurate Magazine Fed Mass Produced Battle Rifle Ever Made. The M16 has turned out to be the longest issued rifle the Armed Services has ever issued. It wasn't long before the M14's where pulled out storage so that they could be used in Iraq, and Afganistan. Accuracy, and Reliabilty, and longer range than the M16. I could go on and on, but I'll let you do the Google research you are so good at, and love to do. In Viet Nam I was an Infantryman, who walked point every day. I carried a M16, and M14. The M14 was the best--Heavier---but still the best.

TheLoneRanger
19th August 2011, 13:42
While the lots in my small neighborhood are on the large side and most of the houses do border on woods or fields on two sides, I would worry about stray rifle rounds penetrating a wall and going next door. My Kids both bought homes in the neighborhood, not directly next door , so I have the added worry of my grandkids on top of the concideration of just being a good neighbor. Dogs are good, especially if they are professionally trained and are an appropiate breed to the task they are asked to perform. For security I like Boxers and Pit bulls and I have both. We have a rather advanced security system connecting the three houses, more because my Son and Son-in-law have a bail bondsman company and run Fugitive Recovery teams, than any concern over break in's . I have built a series of custom security 12 gauge shotguns for them that we use for both home security and on the job. Everybody in the extended family over 21 is licensed for conceal carry and we have a couple LEO's in the extended family/inlaws so Sheriff and Police cars are often in our driveways. I may be building a couple of shotguns for the Sheriffs here shortly, as I have been threatened that they will find reason to confiscate mine if I don't LOL . Anyway, I prefer shotguns for close in work , mine have high intensity strobes mounted that can disorient and blind anybody that they are pointed at, as well as lasers and holgraphic sights which makes live capture easier ( kind of important in the fugitive recovery business). Normal Flashlights run arround 50-75 lumens. Mine http://www.4sevens.com/product_info.php?cPath=86&products_id=1488 run 700 lumens. However if shots must be fired The 12 gauge is more than enough indoors with the right ammunition, and good out to any ranges that would stand a court test for immediate threat, and with little concern for endangering the neighbors. Good self installed security system with remote monitoring so you can see what the cameras see on your cell phone are not that expensive http://www.electronichouse.com/article/how_to_choose_a_remote_monitoring_system_for_your_ home/Monitoring especially if you keep an unusual ammount of difficult to insure valuables in your home. I am all about high tech , if you can't tell. A good professional quality safe or two, sophisticated deterents and monitoring, some loyal dogs and reliable like minded neighbors is just good sense and makes for peace of mind. If PM's are going to go to the moon, you may find yourself undersecured for the ammount of wealth they represent very soon. I have no connection with any companies or the makers of any products I have linked to, shop arround and educate yourself to find lower prices. I have not , nor do I pretend to have accurately discribed my personal system for security reasons. The shotguns are accurately described as far as the descriptions go and may include LEO only features not avaiable to the general public.

Edited to add.. if you plan on using a firearm for self defense please get professional training in their use.. I mentioned some good sources in an earlier post in this thread.

valerb
20th August 2011, 07:13
I guess they brought out the M14 when you where getting ready to leave the Army----Thank You For Your Service. The M14 went on. It became the Most Battle Ready Rifle Ever Built For Combat. An M1 Grand on Steroids. The 308 cartridge is just about 5% less powerful than the 06; however, it has proved to be more accurate. My proof is the Camp Perry Shooting Matches where all branches of the Armed Services compete, as well as Civilians. The line of shooters firing at the 1000 yard iron sight targets are all firing m14/m1As (civilian model). It is The Most Accurate Magazine Fed Mass Produced Battle Rifle Ever Made. The M16 has turned out to be the longest issued rifle the Armed Services has ever issued. It wasn't long before the M14's where pulled out storage so that they could be used in Iraq, and Afganistan. Accuracy, and Reliabilty, and longer range than the M16. I could go on and on, but I'll let you do the Google research you are so good at, and love to do. In Viet Nam I was an Infantryman, who walked point every day. I carried a M16, and M14. The M14 was the best--Heavier---but still the best.


I was in during overlapping activities. Like the Cuban Missile crisis Kennedy's assassination and the worst day of my life when our commanding general came out and addressed everyone and informed us that the United States had been attacked in the Gulf of Ton-kin and that we had declared War on the country of North Vietnam. So much for only having eight months to go, half the old sergeants were WWII vets and all the war stories and the worst one of all, the concept of being in for the DURATION, was screaming in my head. Of course we found out later that day that we really hadn't declared war and hardly anyone even knew where Viet Nam was even located. Speaking of which, I have to give you a double thanks for your service in that war. One now and one that you didn't get when you came home.

They were still training soldiers with the M1 in basic training but the Army was equipped with the M-14 when I went in. When I was at Ft. Benning I was on the post team for competition and we used the M1 as did all of the competitors. We practiced for one month straight before the competition and the 3rd Army all Army rifle team came from some other post to practice with us and it was emembarrassing, all we are trying to do is hit the bullseye and they are zeroing in on the V or whatever they called that center ring. They were the best of the best and that was their full time job in the Army. Only one member on our team had previous competition experience. Actually my company at Ft Knox was told we were the last company to every qualify on known distance targets and all future trainees would qualify on the new pop-up target ranges. So after we qualified on our range they put us through a one day run through the pop-up targets, what a joke they were at that time. I had several people in front of me shooting so I got to see how it worked and the first thing I noticed was that if you hit the dirt in front of the target it would kick up some dirt and knock the target down. The second thing I noticed was they always ran through the same sequence of the popop-ups. So it was a dead cinch, memorize the pattern of the pop-ups and aim at the base of the target. If your a little high, your fine, if your a little low the dirt does the trick for you. I'm sure Charlie wasn't as accommodating! Since they had a post full of soldiers that had qualified on the known distance range, apparently the coach simply went through personnel records looking to see who had the highest scores in basic and that's how the rest of us were selected. Other than the one guy who had some experience we were all teenagers, all regular Army, no draftees and none of us had ever fired a rifle before we entered the Army and I had the most experience of the lot with four days of shooting, including my popop-up target day. We all got one day on the 1000 inch range to zero our sites, one day on the KD range for a practice run and then one actual qualifying run and that was it. Our qualifying scores basically were all within a couple points of each other in the high 230, low 240 range. So we thought, we are going to be practicing all day for a solid month, we'll be kicking this ranges ass. Nope, didn't happen for any of us, not one time in the entire month. Everybody is shooting in the high 240's but no one can make it through a single run without missing a least one bull. I was an absolute killing machine in the knelling and setting position from the 300 and 400 yard lines. I didn't miss a shot the entire month. I was skinny and would lock myself up in a knot I couldn't miss a shot for anything. Of course the spotter had a lot to do with that also as he would call out wind adjustment while we were shooting and kept us on track. We had a hill across the street form us that we were told was the 1000 yard line. Of course no one ever fired from there as we were on the course all day everyday. But I was always curious as to what kind of target they would use from that distance, as the bullseye from 600 yards looked more like the head of a pin setting on the end of my sites. Now add another 400 yards to that and your going to need a really big target to even equal the same pin size shape I'm looking at. By the way the M1's were glass packed, whatever that meant. All we were told is that the stock can not be removed and that the accuracy of the M1 was better than the M-14 and that is why everyone uses it. Apparently they made some improvements along the way. I know there were some large number of releases of the M-14 through the years. If I'm not mistaken the first release was actually back around 1957 or so, but the Army took a long time to replace all the M1's and as usual, basic training was the last to go. You might find this interesting. When in basic, they gave us a demonstration of a new experimental grenade launcher, the XM-79, sound familiar. We had to actually shoot a real grenade off the end of our M1 from a standing position. Well actually you had to really lean forward to avoid being knocked on your ass from the kickback. It wasn't a real strong kickback, but a powerful force. You can't launch a hand grenade off the end of a rifle without that rifle moving in the opposite direction as a normal action in physics and when your standing behind that rifle, your moving with it. Of course the larger you were the less impact it would have on you. But at 6 feet and 125 pounds, it moved me like a rag doll. By the way, when I went to Germany I did have my own M-14 for 20 months and I actually got to fire it "once" as part of a mandatory training session to insure that all troops were familiar with the M-14 since so many had trained on the M-1 in basic. Point at that pile of dirt and fire. OK, next!!! Other than that, I think I actually had it in my possession maybe six times in 20 months. My semi-automatic isn't an M-14 but a knock off that fires the 7.62 full metal jacket. I was thinking our M-1 also used the 7.62, so when I was looking it up and it did by the way, I found this in the same article:Shooting the M1 Garand is very popular; it is still preferred as a match rifle by many competitors. This is one of the most popular rifles used for the ViMSAR shoots. Whatever that is!! It also said that the M-1 was also used in Viet Nam. The only thing I could think anyone would even consider using an M-1 at that time versus an M-14 or M-16 might have been a sniper, if it was still believed to be a superior shot. Whatever happened to the M-15, did you ever see one of those. We received a batch for our LRRP company back in 1964, it had a collapsible stock to make it easier for jumping with, versus a full length rifle. I've never heard anything about it after that. Just the M-16.