PDA

View Full Version : Silver Eagles $1.85 above spot



moevilla
27th June 2011, 13:40
Is that a good price for Silver Eagles? Random dates, some are circulated.

Mizzle
27th June 2011, 14:00
Is that a good price for Silver Eagles? Random dates, some are circulated.

YES, but make sure you factor in other costs such as shipping, etc.
Also, it seems a little too low. People can sell ASEs $3.99 over spot + s&h all day long, so I'd be VERY skeptical about such a deal.

silverheartbone
27th June 2011, 14:37
Is that a good price for Silver Eagles? Random dates, some are circulated.

Yes.

$33.54 + $1.85 = $35.39

Silver is silver.
Paper is paper.
Like your Federal Reserve (DTCC) backed account, both contain electrons, but only one is an ELEMENT.
Limited edition government issued element.

What is Truth?
27th June 2011, 14:42
my dealers have scratched and dented eagles at the same price as silver rounds. all things equal, I will buy the eagles.

silverheartbone
27th June 2011, 14:58
my dealers have scratched and dented eagles at the same price as silver rounds. all things equal, I will buy the eagles.
I've bought one or two rather circulated looking eagles from dealer's miscellaneous silver boxes in the past for the same price as rounds.

Where are they getting circulated?

duneyman jr
27th June 2011, 16:48
There bein circulated from one collector to the next. They never protected and has gotten beat up easily as its almost pure and soft compared to 90%. I'm sure each of the collectors has lost there ass each time and sold when it went down. Each owner of that coin thought it was goin make them rich overnight and sold it within a year. That's what I think when I see shitty eagles, I don't like them beat up. I liked toned ones over non toned tho.

maestro
27th June 2011, 18:00
There bein circulated from one collector to the next. They never protected and has gotten beat up easily as its almost pure and soft compared to 90%. I'm sure each of the collectors has lost there ass each time and sold when it went down. Each owner of that coin thought it was goin make them rich overnight and sold it within a year. That's what I think when I see shitty eagles, I don't like them beat up. I liked toned ones over non toned tho.

i'm curious how some get toned and some don't i had 20 or so from littleton in a lock box for less than 2 years and a couple of them started toning while the others did not.

duneyman jr
27th June 2011, 18:29
I just pick them up if I see the, over regular ones. I got some crazy purple ones and browns. Just different ways they were stored and envirement. I just like them to turn that way naturaly but some don't like the look. When its all said in done tho its a oz. Some just leave them at the lcs and I snag them.

maplesilverbug
27th June 2011, 18:37
Why do people use '$' instead of '%' when figuring premiums etc?

Is it easier?
Does it make more sense?
???

Curious.

Prospector
27th June 2011, 19:47
That's a good price if they are genuine silver. I have owned about all the different coins there are and I never paid more for one than I would have paid for a generic silver round. I also never got any extra for any of them when I sold them. Based on that experience I would not buy any coin with more than the minimum premium. I just can't count on getting my money back when I sell.

I said that's a good price, but that is a subjective judgment based on a fixed spot price. If spot goes down two bux tomorrow you will kick yourself for buying at any price today. And now is the time of year when spot goes down for a while. This is a pattern for silver, going to a new peak, then up/down/sideways for a year or two, then going to another new peak. If you study the charts for the last ten years you will see the pattern very prominently. Right now is the U/D/S part, so if you miss one bargain you can just wait a few weeks and catch the next one.

Oh, and if you buy and it goes down the next day, don't worry because it will go up again. The big money is made in the big move, and the big move is up towards $180/ounce. It's better to buy silver a year too soon than a day too late.

duneyman jr
27th June 2011, 20:28
Why do people use '$' instead of '%' when figuring premiums etc?

Is it easier?
Does it make more sense?
???

Curious.
Because the $ changes with demand on the premium noway to do a % on spot. When silver spot dropped down from 20ish to 9 per oz demand was huge along with eagles at over double spot sometimes premium.

valerb
27th June 2011, 21:20
Why do people use '$' instead of '%' when figuring premiums etc?

Is it easier?
Does it make more sense?
???

Curious.




When the average premium of a generic Silver round has been in the $.70 to $1.10 range, while the price of Silver has gone from the teens to nearly $50, why on earth would anyone consider using a percentage to calculate the premium?

Of course it seems to work out that way when an item is in demand, but that is just supply and demand in action. When one dealer is charging $.79 for brand new Silver rounds and another one is charging $2.39 for the same, it's no different than any other business. New investors don't know what they are doing and there are loads of dealers out there willing to take their money.

"Is it easier or does it make more sense?"

It's competition that drives the premiums, not the cost of Silver. The production costs are basically fixed, so the mints can keep the premiums at consistently low levels in line with their actual costs. If a mint can make a profit selling Silver rounds at $.99 each in volume. What does the cost of Silver matter to the mint, when they make the same profit selling Silver rounds when the spot price is at $15 as they do when it is at $50? That is assuming they can sell the same amount of Silver rounds at the higher price.

Does it make sense that the mints profits margins should increase be several hundred percent simply because the price of Silver more than tripled? They call that price fixing! Just imagine what the cost of a gallon of gas would be if we used that logic applied to a barrel of oil!! I think it would be something over $10 a gallon.

In a competitive market place, the lowest price for the same product usually becomes the top selling product.

valerb
27th June 2011, 21:30
Because the $ changes with demand on the premium noway to do a % on spot. When silver spot dropped down from 20ish to 9 per oz demand was huge along with eagles at over double spot sometimes premium.

That was a time of great gouging on the part of most dealers. There were a few exceptions, such as NWTM that were selling Silver as fast as they could produce it and well under $1 an ounce in volume, when other dealers were charging $3 - $5 per ounce in volume.

maplesilverbug
27th June 2011, 22:17
When the average premium of a generic Silver round has been in the $.70 to $1.10 range, while the price of Silver has gone from the teens to nearly $50, why on earth would anyone consider using a percentage to calculate the premium?

Aren't you going to do that anyway?

Perhaps this example shows it more clear:

"Spot is $38 and I'm paying $3 premium!"
"Spot is $18 and I'm paying $3 premium!"

Both are paying a $3 premium...one is an 8% premium, the other a 17% premium.

To say the dollar ($) amount of the premium is useless unless measured against spot -- eg. 3 to 38 -- which naturally gives a percentage (%).

So instead of a thread titled "$1.85 above spot", why not use "5.5% over spot"?

Kind of like everyone stating the Ratio as a percentage (eg. 44) instead of saying, "Gold is $1,465 over silver!"


But...can't change minds from outside.
People will do whatever they want to float their boats! :)

valerb
28th June 2011, 01:15
Aren't you going to do that anyway?

Perhaps this example shows it more clear:

"Spot is $38 and I'm paying $3 premium!"
"Spot is $18 and I'm paying $3 premium!"

Both are paying a $3 premium...one is an 8% premium, the other a 17% premium.

To say the dollar ($) amount of the premium is useless unless measured against spot -- eg. 3 to 38 -- which naturally gives a percentage (%).

So instead of a thread titled "$1.85 above spot", why not use "5.5% over spot"?

Kind of like everyone stating the Ratio as a percentage (eg. 44) instead of saying, "Gold is $1,465 over silver!"


But...can't change minds from outside.
People will do whatever they want to float their boats! :)


Sorry Maple, but your arguing from out in left field on this one.

Everyone, with the possible exception of you, can easily identify with $1.85 over spot as a very competitive premium price for an ASE. To quote that in terms of a percentage, would require almost everyone to use a calculator to find out, "it's $1.85 over spot" and a very competitive premium. All day long the percentage would be changing, day in and day out. Yet, $1.85 is a set figure that doesn't need to move with the spot price of Silver.

So use your head, why in the hell would you want to quote the premium as a percentage of the spot price, if it's always going to equal $1.85? You wouldn't be able to use the percentage for comparison purposes between dealers, since the percentage would constantly be changing with the spot price. Where a fixed dollar amount per ounce can be used.

APMEX is charging $1.99 for their generic Silver rounds in volume and Tulving is charging $.99 for his. No one needs a calculator to know who has the better deal, no matter what the spot price is at today.

Prospector
28th June 2011, 07:45
Why ask why? People use whatever measure they find convenient. Most people are able to add two numbers without a calculator, so it's convenient to express premium as dollars over spot. In some other business you might find it convenient to express prices as a percent markup. We see the same dichotomy in the bead necklace business, where diameter is measured in millimeters and length in inches. The same people weigh gold in grams, silver in ounces, and gems in carats and nobody considers that odd at all. It's just a matter of convenience.

Mizzle
28th June 2011, 07:53
When I talk about $x over spot, I'm talking in relation to the current spot price at that moment in time.

Contrary to what some people might tell you here, dealers are always going to charge a % over spot for premium, just like any other business. People want to see a return on their investment.
During times of supremely high volatility (like now), premiums are going to tend to be on the higher side when the price falls, so the dealers can try to cover the spread a little better.

If you don't like paying higher premiums over spot, scrape together a few hundred grand and a business license, and buy straight from the mints.

valerb
28th June 2011, 11:25
When I talk about $x over spot, I'm talking in relation to the current spot price at that moment in time.

Contrary to what some people might tell you here, dealers are always going to charge a % over spot for premium, just like any other business. People want to see a return on their investment.
During times of supremely high volatility (like now), premiums are going to tend to be on the higher side when the price falls, so the dealers can try to cover the spread a little better.

If you don't like paying higher premiums over spot, scrape together a few hundred grand and a business license, and buy straight from the mints.

If that were true, then we would be seeing higher prices instead of declining prices. And some mints have not changed their prices at all during the rise and fall of Silver over the past many months.

AS far a high volatility right now, that's not happening. Just look at the availability of retail Silver out there. Tulving for one has over 575 thousand ounces available and I don't remember seeing it that high in the past and certainly not in the past year.

What is Truth?
28th June 2011, 13:30
I've bought one or two rather circulated looking eagles from dealer's miscellaneous silver boxes in the past for the same price as rounds.

Where are they getting circulated?

Beats me. Some look bad though like they were in a fire.

DaleFromCalgary
28th June 2011, 13:31
Does it make sense that the mints profits margins should increase be several hundred percent simply because the price of Silver more than tripled? They call that price fixing! Just imagine what the cost of a gallon of gas would be if we used that logic applied to a barrel of oil!! I think it would be something over $10 a gallon.

The average person does not own silver and therefore does not care or even know. Most people drive a vehicle, so when prices rise, they get noisy and so do their elected politicians.

In a competitive market place, the lowest price for the same product usually becomes the top selling product.

Commodities are not a competitive market anywhere. JPMC and Goldman Sachs are busy gaming the futures and options, governments interfere left, right, and centre, and politics reigns supreme.

valerb
28th June 2011, 16:26
[I][I]

Commodities are not a competitive market anywhere. JPMC and Goldman Sachs are busy gaming the futures and options, governments interfere left, right, and centre, and politics reigns supreme.



That may be a true statement for the spot price of Silver and Gold, but it is not for the premiums charged by the dealers. The dealers are in a competitive market, if not, they would all be charging the same price for their products. That's all this thread is about, the premiums, good deals and rather it is better to state the premiums in terms of $ or %. Not a lot we can do about the JP Morgan's or Sachs of the this world, except maybe take advantage of lower prices, if your still into adding to your stack.

valerb
28th June 2011, 16:35
I've bought one or two rather circulated looking eagles from dealer's miscellaneous silver boxes in the past for the same price as rounds.

Where are they getting circulated?

There have been numerous posts by members that like to walk around with Silver rounds in their pockets. They like to hear them jingle and they like to rub them together. Me, I like to take some random samples out of the shipment and weight them, just to make sure the weights are exact. I don't even touch them with my bare hands. Then they go into storage to collect dust.

maplesilverbug
28th June 2011, 18:10
Sorry Maple, but your arguing from out in left field on this one.

APMEX is charging $1.99 for their generic Silver rounds in volume and Tulving is charging $.99 for his. No one needs a calculator to know who has the better deal, no matter what the spot price is at today.

Ah, you are using $'s to compare different sellers.

I use % for the bottom line -- eg. is "$1.85 above spot" a 23% premium or a 6% premium?


Whatever makes you money...

billmr
28th June 2011, 20:36
There have been numerous posts by members that like to walk around with Silver rounds in their pockets. They like to hear them jingle and they like to rub them together. Me, I like to take some random samples out of the shipment and weight them, just to make sure the weights are exact. I don't even touch them with my bare hands. Then they go into storage to collect dust.

I like to keep one in the watch pocket of my jeans, but it does not rub against anything except my fingers and the jeans material.

What is Truth?
28th June 2011, 20:51
I would keep one in my pocket but God blessed me too much.

You are all a great bunch of guys, yet you still only measure up in inches. :p

silverheartbone
28th June 2011, 21:06
There have been numerous posts by members that like to walk around with Silver rounds in their pockets. They like to hear them jingle and they like to rub them together. Me, I like to take some random samples out of the shipment and weight them, just to make sure the weights are exact. I don't even touch them with my bare hands. Then they go into storage to collect dust.

Jingling silver eagles makes sense.
I keep a silver one ounce round in my wallet, within a plastic flip.


I would keep one in my pocket but God blessed me too much.

You are all a great bunch of guys, yet you still only measure up in inches. :p

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/3/128675333651854906.jpg

valerb
29th June 2011, 01:10
Jingling silver eagles makes sense.





Not when the jingling comes from the eagles banging against each other in your pocket!!

Mizzle
29th June 2011, 07:41
Until people start refusing cash and card, I won't be carrying any silver around. It's best to just leave them in a nice condition.

What is Truth?
29th June 2011, 20:24
Jingling silver eagles makes sense.
I keep a silver one ounce round in my wallet, within a plastic flip.



http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/3/128675333651854906.jpg

Sorry, I don't go that way, but gald that you are out of the closet as an expert. :mrgreen:

JimBo
30th June 2011, 20:45
Big Move. Thats what I'm hanging around for the big move.