PDA

View Full Version : Danger - 2 States From Constitutional Convention



mick silver
12th December 2008, 21:51
Extremely Urgent Action Alert!

U.S. Two States Away from Constitutional Convention

This is the most urgent, most important action alert the American Policy Center has ever issued! The Ohio state legislature is expected to vote today, Wednesday, Dec. 10th, to call for a Constitutional Convention (Con Con). If Ohio calls for a Con Con only one more state need do so and Congress will have no choice but to convene a Convention, throwing our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights up for grabs. Ohio's vote today poses a grave threat to the U.S. Constitution. Please immediately call the Ohio lawmakers listed below. ACT FAST - time is of the essence!

I apologize! This malignancy most foul remained undetected by our radar until a good friend brought it to our attention yesterday. The hour is late, but WE MUST TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION!

It does not matter where you live. Ohio's vote today endangers everyone in every state in the Union, so we must pressure Ohio lawmakers to discard this disastrous legislative effort.

Thirty-two (32) other states have already called for a Con Con (allegedly to add a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution). 34 states are all that is required, and then Congress MUST convene a Convention.

The U.S. Constitution places no restriction on the purposes for which the states can call for a Convention. If Ohio votes to call a Con Con, for whatever purpose, the United States will be only one state away from total destruction. And it's a safe bet that those who hate this nation, and all She stands for, are waiting to pounce upon this opportunity to re-write our Constitution. We dare slumber no longer; we must take immediate action to preserve this nation!

Certainly all loyal Americans want government constrained by a balanced budget. But calling a Con Con risks a revolutionary change in our form of government. The ultimate outcome will likely be a new constitution; one that would possibly eliminate the Article 1 restriction to the coinage of real money or even eliminate gun or property rights. So what may look like a good idea to the legislators driving this effort - all Republicans - will certainly make them prey to the law of unintended consequences - at the very least insuring the U.S. will never have a balanced budget - while destroying what vestiges of liberty the government still allows.

You may have heard that some of those 32 states have voted to rescind their calls. This is true. However, under Article V of the Constitution, Congress must call a Constitutional Convention whenever 2/3 (or 34) of the states apply. The Constitution makes no provision for rescission. We've been told advocates of the convention are waiting to capture just two more states - Ohio, and one other. They can then challenge the other states' rescissions in the courts while going ahead with the Convention. Congress alone then decides whether state legislatures or state conventions ratify proposed amendments.

You may have heard the states can control the subject of any convention. In truth no restrictive language from any state can legally limit the scope or outcome of a Convention! Once a Convention is called Congress determines how the delegates to the Convention are chosen. Once chosen, those Convention delegates possess more power than the U.S. Congress itself; if it were not so they would not be able to change the U.S. Constitution!

We have not had a Constitutional Convention since 1787. That Convention was called to make small changes in the Articles of Confederation. As a point of fact, several states first passed resolutions requiring their delegates discuss amendments to the Articles ONLY, forbidding even discussion of foundational changes. However, following the delegates' first agreement that their meetings be in secret, their second act was to agree to debate those state restrictions and to declare the Articles of Confederation NULL AND VOID! They also changed the ratification process, reducing the required states' approval from 100% to 75%. There is no reason to believe a contemporary Con Con wouldn't further "modify" Article V restrictions to suit its purpose.

As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said in a letter written to Phyllis Schlafly, President of Eagle Forum:
"...there is no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the convention to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure that the convention would obey. After a convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the convention if we don't like its agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the confederation Congress..." (emphasis mine)

We were blessed in 1787; the Con Con delegates were the leaders of a freedom movement that had just cleansed this land of tyranny.

Today's corrupt politicians and judges would like nothing better than the ability to legally ignore the Constitution - to modify its "problematic" provisions to reflect the philosophical and socials mores of our contemporary society.

The majority of U.S. voters just elected a dedicated leftist as President. Republicans are at their weakest right now! This is a horrible time to try such a crazy scheme. We cannot control the debate right now! Don't for one second doubt that delegates to a Con Con wouldn't revise the 1st Amendment into a government-controlled privilege, replace the 2nd Amendment with a "collective" right to self-defense, and abolish the 4th, 5th, and 10th Amendments, and the rest of the Bill of Rights. Additions could include the non-existent Separation of Church and State, the "right" to abortion and euthanasia, and much, much more.

Our uniquely and purely American concept of individual rights, endowed by our Creator, would be quickly set aside as an anachronistic relic of a bygone era; replaced by new "collective" rights, awarded and enforced by government for the "common good".

The problems our nation faces are not a result of deficiencies in our Constitution; rather, they are the direct result of our disregard for that divinely-inspired document of liberty.

There is no challenge faced by this nation that cannot be solved either by enforcing existing law, or in limited cases, by writing new law. We do not need, AND MUST NOT RISK THE LIBERTY OF THE UNITED STATES with, a Constitutional Convention!

Ohio must not vote for a Con Con! We cannot control the debate! And state #34 is likely sitting silently in the wings, ready to act with lightning speed, sealing the fate of our once great nation before we can prevent it.

Stop the Ohio bill and we can stop the Constitutional Convention.

ACTION TO TAKE

We need only stop the House bill, HJR8, sponsored by Representative Louis Blessing, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee (there is a Senate bill too).

1. Call Chairman Blessing's office and tell his staff you oppose a Constitutional Convention and you want this process stopped.

Tell them this is the most dangerous time ever to call for such a convention.

Tell them no one can control the debate or outcome of a Con Con.

Representative Louis Blessing
Phone: (614) 466-9091
Fax: (614) 719-3583
Email: <mailto:district29@ohr.state.oh.us>district29@ohr.state.oh.us

2. Call Representative Bill Batchelder. He is a very good man. I've known him for years. But he has been misled on this issue. The word is he is wavering. Your calls can convince him to withdraw his support. That can kill this bill.

Representative Bill Batchelder
Phone: (614) 466-8140
Fax: (614) 719-3969
Email: <mailto:district69@ohr.state.oh.us>district69@ohr.state.oh.us

3. It is URGENT that you make your calls right now. The bill could be voted on as early as this afternoon (Wednesday).

I'm so sorry for this late notice. We just found out about this last night.

Please get this message out far and wide. This task requires our very best effort! E-mail and call your friends, family and neighbors. Network anywhere and everywhere possible. If you know someone who never takes action, encourage them to break that habit this one time. Our Constitution is under assault!

<http://cts.vresp.com/c/?AmericanPolicyCenter/af099996e4/a41a9803a8/ea53338d90>Visit the American Policy Center website
SEND THIS MESSAGE TO AT LEAST TEN MORE PEOPLE! APC is now offering you a quick and easy way to multiply your efforts and help win more battles! Simply click <http://www.referralblast.com/rblast.asp?sid=5906>here to send this APC Action Alert to up to TEN of your friends! ItĒs fast, itĒs easy and most of all, itĒs extremely effective in KILLING OPPRESSIVE POLICIES!

http://www.rense.com/general84/consttit.htm

fredrock
13th December 2008, 01:56
Republicans are at their weakest right now!
Not to worry... their twin brother the Jack Ass has promised to take over for the next four years where they left off.


We cannot control the debate right now!
Instead of controlling the debate, why not just have a fair debate? Also, what makes you think that the Republicans in Congress care about the US Constitution any more than the Democrats do?


The problems our nation faces are not a result of deficiencies in our Constitution; rather, they are the direct result of our disregard for that divinely-inspired document of liberty.

You'll get no argument from me on this!

This story sounds like Government propaganda. Work the masses into a frenzy so that real spending limits cannot be placed on the spend thrifts in Washington.

Let's have the Convention to balance the Federal Budget. I for one think it will be good for America. And, if these crooks try to subvert the Constitution, then we'll at least know who to aim at when and if the shooting starts!

Fred

valerb
13th December 2008, 05:57
I've never voted for a Democrat, but the thought of the Republicans having control of a Con Con scares me far worse than what the Democrats might do. Make abortions legal and abolish the death penalty, whup-t-du. I prefer both, buy I could live with it. I fear far more civil rights would be lost to Republicans than Democrats. For the life of me, I just can't imagine how they would corrupt our constitution in favor of big business. Can you imagine the powers our police would have after the Republicans got done with us. Collective bargaining, are you kidding me. It would be, bring out the old leather chairs and Cuban cigar time all over again. I can just see a new amendment stating that all American men must be prepared at a moments notice to have their sexual orientation changed. After second thought, God save the Queen or Sieg Heil are starting to sound like reasonable alternatives. You must know that the republicans are waiting in the wings for the chance to control a Con Con. Don't let the Democrats screw you, let us!! God help us if either of them ever get the opportunity.

JCM6395
13th December 2008, 06:33
Extremely Urgent Action Alert!

U.S. Two States Away from Constitutional Convention

This is the most urgent, most important action alert the American Policy Center has ever issued! The Ohio state legislature is expected to vote today, Wednesday, Dec. 10th, to call for a Constitutional Convention (Con Con). If Ohio calls for a Con Con only one more state need do so and Congress will have no choice but to convene a Convention, throwing our U.S. Constitution and Bill of Rights up for grabs. Ohio's vote today poses a grave threat to the U.S. Constitution. Please immediately call the Ohio lawmakers listed below. ACT FAST - time is of the essence!

I apologize! This malignancy most foul remained undetected by our radar until a good friend brought it to our attention yesterday. The hour is late, but WE MUST TAKE IMMEDIATE ACTION!

It does not matter where you live. Ohio's vote today endangers everyone in every state in the Union, so we must pressure Ohio lawmakers to discard this disastrous legislative effort.

Thirty-two (32) other states have already called for a Con Con (allegedly to add a Balanced Budget Amendment to the Constitution). 34 states are all that is required, and then Congress MUST convene a Convention.

The U.S. Constitution places no restriction on the purposes for which the states can call for a Convention. If Ohio votes to call a Con Con, for whatever purpose, the United States will be only one state away from total destruction. And it's a safe bet that those who hate this nation, and all She stands for, are waiting to pounce upon this opportunity to re-write our Constitution. We dare slumber no longer; we must take immediate action to preserve this nation!

Certainly all loyal Americans want government constrained by a balanced budget. But calling a Con Con risks a revolutionary change in our form of government. The ultimate outcome will likely be a new constitution; one that would possibly eliminate the Article 1 restriction to the coinage of real money or even eliminate gun or property rights. So what may look like a good idea to the legislators driving this effort - all Republicans - will certainly make them prey to the law of unintended consequences - at the very least insuring the U.S. will never have a balanced budget - while destroying what vestiges of liberty the government still allows.

You may have heard that some of those 32 states have voted to rescind their calls. This is true. However, under Article V of the Constitution, Congress must call a Constitutional Convention whenever 2/3 (or 34) of the states apply. The Constitution makes no provision for rescission. We've been told advocates of the convention are waiting to capture just two more states - Ohio, and one other. They can then challenge the other states' rescissions in the courts while going ahead with the Convention. Congress alone then decides whether state legislatures or state conventions ratify proposed amendments.

You may have heard the states can control the subject of any convention. In truth no restrictive language from any state can legally limit the scope or outcome of a Convention! Once a Convention is called Congress determines how the delegates to the Convention are chosen. Once chosen, those Convention delegates possess more power than the U.S. Congress itself; if it were not so they would not be able to change the U.S. Constitution!

We have not had a Constitutional Convention since 1787. That Convention was called to make small changes in the Articles of Confederation. As a point of fact, several states first passed resolutions requiring their delegates discuss amendments to the Articles ONLY, forbidding even discussion of foundational changes. However, following the delegates' first agreement that their meetings be in secret, their second act was to agree to debate those state restrictions and to declare the Articles of Confederation NULL AND VOID! They also changed the ratification process, reducing the required states' approval from 100&#37; to 75%. There is no reason to believe a contemporary Con Con wouldn't further "modify" Article V restrictions to suit its purpose.

As former Chief Justice Warren Burger said in a letter written to Phyllis Schlafly, President of Eagle Forum:
"...there is no effective way to limit or muzzle the actions of a Constitutional Convention. The convention could make its own rules and set its own agenda. Congress might try to limit the convention to one amendment or to one issue, but there is no way to assure that the convention would obey. After a convention is convened, it will be too late to stop the convention if we don't like its agenda. The meeting in 1787 ignored the limit placed by the confederation Congress..." (emphasis mine)

We were blessed in 1787; the Con Con delegates were the leaders of a freedom movement that had just cleansed this land of tyranny.

Today's corrupt politicians and judges would like nothing better than the ability to legally ignore the Constitution - to modify its "problematic" provisions to reflect the philosophical and socials mores of our contemporary society.

The majority of U.S. voters just elected a dedicated leftist as President. Republicans are at their weakest right now! This is a horrible time to try such a crazy scheme. We cannot control the debate right now! Don't for one second doubt that delegates to a Con Con wouldn't revise the 1st Amendment into a government-controlled privilege, replace the 2nd Amendment with a "collective" right to self-defense, and abolish the 4th, 5th, and 10th Amendments, and the rest of the Bill of Rights. Additions could include the non-existent Separation of Church and State, the "right" to abortion and euthanasia, and much, much more.

Our uniquely and purely American concept of individual rights, endowed by our Creator, would be quickly set aside as an anachronistic relic of a bygone era; replaced by new "collective" rights, awarded and enforced by government for the "common good".

The problems our nation faces are not a result of deficiencies in our Constitution; rather, they are the direct result of our disregard for that divinely-inspired document of liberty.

There is no challenge faced by this nation that cannot be solved either by enforcing existing law, or in limited cases, by writing new law. We do not need, AND MUST NOT RISK THE LIBERTY OF THE UNITED STATES with, a Constitutional Convention!

Ohio must not vote for a Con Con! We cannot control the debate! And state #34 is likely sitting silently in the wings, ready to act with lightning speed, sealing the fate of our once great nation before we can prevent it.

Stop the Ohio bill and we can stop the Constitutional Convention.

ACTION TO TAKE

We need only stop the House bill, HJR8, sponsored by Representative Louis Blessing, chairman of the House Judiciary Committee (there is a Senate bill too).

1. Call Chairman Blessing's office and tell his staff you oppose a Constitutional Convention and you want this process stopped.

Tell them this is the most dangerous time ever to call for such a convention.

Tell them no one can control the debate or outcome of a Con Con.

Representative Louis Blessing
Phone: (614) 466-9091
Fax: (614) 719-3583
Email: <mailto:district29@ohr.state.oh.us>district29@ohr.state.oh.us

2. Call Representative Bill Batchelder. He is a very good man. I've known him for years. But he has been misled on this issue. The word is he is wavering. Your calls can convince him to withdraw his support. That can kill this bill.

Representative Bill Batchelder
Phone: (614) 466-8140
Fax: (614) 719-3969
Email: <mailto:district69@ohr.state.oh.us>district69@ohr.state.oh.us

3. It is URGENT that you make your calls right now. The bill could be voted on as early as this afternoon (Wednesday).

I'm so sorry for this late notice. We just found out about this last night.

Please get this message out far and wide. This task requires our very best effort! E-mail and call your friends, family and neighbors. Network anywhere and everywhere possible. If you know someone who never takes action, encourage them to break that habit this one time. Our Constitution is under assault!

<http://cts.vresp.com/c/?AmericanPolicyCenter/af099996e4/a41a9803a8/ea53338d90>Visit the American Policy Center website
SEND THIS MESSAGE TO AT LEAST TEN MORE PEOPLE! APC is now offering you a quick and easy way to multiply your efforts and help win more battles! Simply click <http://www.referralblast.com/rblast.asp?sid=5906>here to send this APC Action Alert to up to TEN of your friends! It&#162;s fast, it&#162;s easy and most of all, it&#162;s extremely effective in KILLING OPPRESSIVE POLICIES!

http://www.rense.com/general84/consttit.htm

A new constitution would go back to the states for ratification, right? It also requires a 3/4 majority of states to bless a new Constitution. The republicans are at low ebb for the moment (just wait 2 years), but they could swing enough states to block a total liberal rewrite of the Constitution.

pr356
13th December 2008, 08:22
Our Constitution was crafted by men who held a Chistian world view. Sadly today the majority of Americans have a Humanistc world view. Humanism rejects God as the Soverign Ruler, and the Bible as His Holy Words. Humanism puts man on the throne, making man the in charge of determining right and wrong.
Humanism is the reason we see such a fervor for lying, deceit, and evil in our government officials. It is also the reason that there is very little opposition to their actions. Christians make themselves subject to a righteous God and His rule. Humanism makes man his own supreme being who scorns God in heaven.
A Constitutional Convention held in the midst of today's Anti-Christian world view would only result in a huge reduction of every American's rights. Christians must stand up and speak out agaist this threat.

Sushi
13th December 2008, 11:28
Our Constitution was crafted by men who held a Chistian world view. Sadly today the majority of Americans have a Humanistc world view. Humanism rejects God as the Soverign Ruler, and the Bible as His Holy Words. Humanism puts man on the throne, making man the in charge of determining right and wrong.
Humanism is the reason we see such a fervor for lying, deceit, and evil in our government officials. It is also the reason that there is very little opposition to their actions. Christians make themselves subject to a righteous God and His rule. Humanism makes man his own supreme being who scorns God in heaven.
A Constitutional Convention held in the midst of today's Anti-Christian world view would only result in a huge reduction of every American's rights. Christians must stand up and speak out agaist this threat.

It seems to me like you are a little confused about the term humanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism). Humanism is not the reason for all the lying, deceit and evil you mention - the absence of humanism is. Besides, I donīt see how the belief in an imaginary supreme being (god) is the solution to our problems.

fredrock
13th December 2008, 11:35
Besides, I donīt see how the belief in an imaginary supreme being (god) is the solution to our problems.

Did you really have to go there?

Fred

pr356
13th December 2008, 12:44
It seems to me like you are a little confused about the term humanism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Humanism). Humanism is not the reason for all the lying, deceit and evil you mention - the absence of humanism is. Besides, I donīt see how the belief in an imaginary supreme being (god) is the solution to our problems.

Read Webster's second definition. Without God there is no moral law, just every individual's own perception.

Sushi
13th December 2008, 14:19
Read Webster's second definition. Without God there is no moral law, just every individual's own perception.

Iīm an atheist, but that doesnīt stop me from having moral and ethical standards. Why do so many christians have that "holier than thou" attitude? I donīt kill or steal and try my best to be a good guy. No divine intervention is needed to create decent people...

mgbfan
13th December 2008, 14:28
I've seen this discussion on a dozen different forums. Here's how it will play out.

1) Most people will skip it because it's absurd to argue these things here.
2) A handful of Christians will feel superior because they have their divine moral compass.
3) A handful of athiests will feel superior because they feel they don't need a divine moral compass
4) A handful of agnostics will sit back, scratching their heads, laughing at both the Christians and the athiests for claiming knowledge they believe is impossible to claim.
5) Lots of people will get worked up and nobody will change anyone's mind or enlighten them to the smallest degree.

Me, I'd rather talk about silver, seeing as I have my first order coming to me shortly!

Sushi
13th December 2008, 14:52
I agree with you, but I just couldnīt let the statement that humansism, of all isms, should be responsible for the mess that is todayīs society go by uncommented. Thereīs no need for anyone to feel superior either. We all are to a large extent the product of our environment. pr356 was quite probably born into a very religious family, so the belief in god is one of his core beliefs. While I think that there is no such thing as god, I understand and respect his (her?) background



I've seen this discussion on a dozen different forums. Here's how it will play out.

1) Most people will skip it because it's absurd to argue these things here.
2) A handful of Christians will feel superior because they have their divine moral compass.
3) A handful of athiests will feel superior because they feel they don't need a divine moral compass
4) A handful of agnostics will sit back, scratching their heads, laughing at both the Christians and the athiests for claiming knowledge they believe is impossible to claim.
5) Lots of people will get worked up and nobody will change anyone's mind or enlighten them to the smallest degree.

Me, I'd rather talk about silver, seeing as I have my first order coming to me shortly!

argentfilo
13th December 2008, 15:45
Iīm an atheist, but that doesnīt stop me from having moral and ethical standards. Why do so many christians have that "holier than thou" attitude? I donīt kill or steal and try my best to be a good guy. No divine intervention is needed to create decent people...

I am an atheist too Sushi, but it is the case that generalized atheism would not be good for society. Please take into account Nietzsche's insight (himself an atheist too), who correctly forecast that the abandonment of God in the political life would lead to nihilism. Nihilism is what rules today. GK Chesterton's dictum here applies: "When people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything".

hiyosilver
13th December 2008, 18:02
Some boldly make their statements, and by law have the right to do so. Now I will quote someone with more authority than I:

Psalm 14

1The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God. They are corrupt, they have done abominable works, there is none that doeth good.

Sushi
13th December 2008, 19:09
Interesting thoughts, but I havenīt seen any evidence for those claims. I donīt know the ultimate cause of the corrupt systems we live in, but it surely isnīt atheism. Some people seem to be corrupted by power, so one might argue that power is the ultimate cause, but that applies to both atheists and religious people.


I am an atheist too Sushi, but it is the case that generalized atheism would not be good for society. Please take into account Nietzsche's insight (himself an atheist too), who correctly forecast that the abandonment of God in the political life would lead to nihilism. Nihilism is what rules today. GK Chesterton's dictum here applies: "When people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything".

hiyosilver
13th December 2008, 20:08
My wise friend has an answer to that, too:

1 Timothy 6:10


10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

Sushi
13th December 2008, 21:07
One of the very few sentences in this otherwise strange book I can agree with.


My wise friend has an answer to that, too:

1 Timothy 6:10


10For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.

m.palmer1@verizon.net
13th December 2008, 23:06
I am an atheist too Sushi, but it is the case that generalized atheism would not be good for society. Please take into account Nietzsche's insight (himself an atheist too), who correctly forecast that the abandonment of God in the political life would lead to nihilism. Nihilism is what rules today. GK Chesterton's dictum here applies: "When people stop believing in God they don't believe in nothing, they believe in anything".

By Jove, I've got it. Gather round everyone,quick prayer for Sushi, Argent & silver !!!