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View Full Version : What to buy silver....advice please



arlan
21st November 2008, 12:34
I want to buy 1000 oz of silver.

My problem is the premiums they charge.

Is a 1000 oz bar at greatly reduced premiums really the way to go?

Looks like I would be saving $4,400.00 over buying eagles.

Thanks
Arlan

ascentient
21st November 2008, 13:21
It depends on your needs. 1000oz bars are indivisible as a means of exchange (without added cost of melting it down), however as an investment if you can buy that much at once it is a great idea. That's what I'd be doing if I had that much liquidity.

main1event
21st November 2008, 13:23
I would not buy eagles. I would buy 10 oz or 100 oz JM bars. Right now APMEX has a few of these bars at 1.99 over spot.

Premiums over spot are going to be with us for some time.

I wouldnt buy a 1000 oz bar right now unless you plan on melting it down or unless you already have a silver stash.

fredrock
21st November 2008, 13:27
Arlan, it may depend on why you want to buy 1000 ounces of silver. If it is strictly for wealth preservation and not for survival purposes, in the case of a US dollar crash for instance, then I would buy the large bar because you get more bang for your buck.

On the other hand, if you intend to spend that beast at the market on some groceries, the store keeper may not be able to make change. Also, those big bars are hard to conceal from onlookers so you may attract the attention of someone who may try to rob you, whether private individuals or the government themselves.

Fred

7nomads
21st November 2008, 13:30
I want to buy 1000 oz of silver.

My problem is the premiums they charge.

Is a 1000 oz bar at greatly reduced premiums really the way to go?

Looks like I would be saving $4,400.00 over buying eagles.

Thanks
Arlan

You want smaller pieces, especially to start with. Your local coin shop may be the best route. Be sure you get things that would be difficult to counterfeit. With the bigger bars there's always that fear of being lead filled. The premiums on anything but bars are all about the same. $14 an ounce.

The big question to ask is "what's your exit strategy?" That should help determine what you buy.

Greaves
21st November 2008, 13:37
The problem with 1000 oz bars is, if you take delivery I think you have to get them reassayed when you want to sell them. 100 oz bars or smaller you don't have to. I would recommend that you look around and try to get the best deal. I know http://www.gatewestcoins.com has 100 oz bars for sale at 1650ish CAD / 1285 USD. That's a pretty damn good deal if you ask me. You'd have to phone and ask if they still have stock left. If they do, snap them up. They didn't have these bars in stock when I did my order. Lastly, these guys won't rip you off... I've bought from them many times.

TomGray
21st November 2008, 14:07
I am new at purchasing silver, so please add extra salt to my advice. I am purchasing 1 oz rounds (coins) from NorthWest Territorial Mint. They charge a $1.05 over silvers spot price at the moment of sale. The coins are either in their NWT logo or Pan Am logo.

My reason for purchasing these coins is that they look and feel like currency, are small and portable and are not much more difficult to handle (in plastic roles) then a 1,000oz bar would be.

The biggest concern I have is the 12 to 16 week delivery time for products from NTW mint. Essentially, you write them a check, they cash it and three or four months later you receive the silver. That takes a huge leap of faith.

Tom

Greaves
21st November 2008, 14:23
I am new at purchasing silver, so please add extra salt to my advice. I am purchasing 1 oz rounds (coins) from NorthWest Territorial Mint. They charge a $1.05 over silvers spot price at the moment of sale. The coins are either in their NWT logo or Pan Am logo.

My reason for purchasing these coins is that they look and feel like currency, are small and portable and are not much more difficult to handle (in plastic roles) then a 1,000oz bar would be.

The biggest concern I have is the 12 to 16 week delivery time for products from NTW mint. Essentially, you write them a check, they cash it and three or four months later you receive the silver. That takes a huge leap of faith.

Tom


Well it's not a leaf of faith IF the NTM is legit, which it is... so I wouldn't worry about it. I bought a pile of Maple Leafs but it will take till February to get here. I'm not worrying about it... so neither should you. Be thankful you got your money in something tangible... real... not that funny money stuff! Congratz!!! You've taken a leap most are too afraid to even attempt! :mrgreen:

arlan
21st November 2008, 14:46
To all these responses..........**** howdy and thanks.............this is a blanket reply to all of you. I agree with everything mentioned and thank you all. I will try to get on to separate replays.

arlan
21st November 2008, 14:49
It depends on your needs. 1000oz bars are indivisible as a means of exchange (without added cost of melting it down), however as an investment if you can buy that much at once it is a great idea. That's what I'd be doing if I had that much liquidity.


Agreed, liquidly, assay, melt down of metal cost was a concern. The dollar meltdown is also a large concern.

thank
arlan

arlan
21st November 2008, 14:52
I would not buy eagles. I would buy 10 oz or 100 oz JM bars. Right now APMEX has a few of these bars at 1.99 over spot.

Premiums over spot are going to be with us for some time.

I wouldnt buy a 1000 oz bar right now unless you plan on melting it down or unless you already have a silver stash.

Thanks, I agree.

arlan
21st November 2008, 14:55
I would not buy eagles. I would buy 10 oz or 100 oz JM bars. Right now APMEX has a few of these bars at 1.99 over spot.

Premiums over spot are going to be with us for some time.

I wouldnt buy a 1000 oz bar right now unless you plan on melting it down or unless you already have a silver stash.

So it is all speculation, Duh! My bad. $1.99 is about the best per 100 oz price I have heard....thanks

arlan
21st November 2008, 14:59
You want smaller pieces, especially to start with. Your local coin shop may be the best route. Be sure you get things that would be difficult to counterfeit. With the bigger bars there's always that fear of being lead filled. The premiums on anything but bars are all about the same. $14 an ounce.

The big question to ask is "what's your exit strategy?" That should help determine what you buy.

You ask me,

"what's your exit strategy?"

Great question! Could it be change? Hell no! I have been fine for a while. Don't need no change. 90% would be great though.

arlan
21st November 2008, 15:02
The problem with 1000 oz bars is, if you take delivery I think you have to get them reassayed when you want to sell them. 100 oz bars or smaller you don't have to. I would recommend that you look around and try to get the best deal. I know http://www.gatewestcoins.com has 100 oz bars for sale at 1650ish CAD / 1285 USD. That's a pretty damn good deal if you ask me. You'd have to phone and ask if they still have stock left. If they do, snap them up. They didn't have these bars in stock when I did my order. Lastly, these guys won't rip you off... I've bought from them many times.

So that is about $3.00 per oz exchange. Is that on 10 oz'er or 100'sI would love to get that on eagles. I'll check them out. Thanks arlan.

arlan
21st November 2008, 15:06
I am new at purchasing silver, so please add extra salt to my advice. I am purchasing 1 oz rounds (coins) from NorthWest Territorial Mint. They charge a $1.05 over silvers spot price at the moment of sale. The coins are either in their NWT logo or Pan Am logo.

My reason for purchasing these coins is that they look and feel like currency, are small and portable and are not much more difficult to handle (in plastic roles) then a 1,000oz bar would be.

The biggest concern I have is the 12 to 16 week delivery time for products from NTW mint. Essentially, you write them a check, they cash it and three or four months later you receive the silver. That takes a huge leap of faith.

Tom

That sounds very attractive. The 3 to 4 month delivery time kinda would freak me out though. "In God we Trust". That seems to be only on the Eagle and my Morgans. Best of Luck on your transactions. I believe you should be good as gold.........silver. Arlan

arlan
21st November 2008, 15:07
Well it's not a leaf of faith IF the NTM is legit, which it is... so I wouldn't worry about it. I bought a pile of Maple Leafs but it will take till February to get here. I'm not worrying about it... so neither should you. Be thankful you got your money in something tangible... real... not that funny money stuff! Congratz!!! You've taken a leap most are too afraid to even attempt! :mrgreen:

Greaves....I will look into NTM. Sounds great if they are...Arlan

ascentient
21st November 2008, 15:23
3 or 4 months is a long time to wait and adds counterparty risk to the transaction. My personal preference would be to use APMEX or Tulving (as you can see I tend to support Jason Hommel's advice).

Alternatively, ebay is generally pretty good - using buy-it-now you can get the MS cashback too. That tends to make ebay the best place to buy. Be sure to check out the seller's feedback etc. but with Paypal you get insurance on the transaction too (plus you can put it on a credit card without an added fee like dealers charge).

That's my 2 cents. There are Engelhard 100oz bars on ebay for $1350 (that's $1150 once you get the $200 back from MS). Personally, when it comes to counterparty risk I have more faith in the combined risk of ebay seller's and MS (to refund my cash back) than in NWTM. But that's just me.

Welcome to the forum. :)

arlan
21st November 2008, 15:44
ascentient....I will look at ebay. The coin shop that I normally deal with is selling 100 oz bars for $2.50 over spot. The problem is I am 480 miles away from them I think I could lock it a deal and mail them a check and wait for the check to clear. I will be at there location around Christmas...arlan

silver_surfer
21st November 2008, 16:58
better to buy a little of everything 90per coins..and 10 oz .999 bars...and of course silver eagles and proofs...few morgans ..its better investment then huge bars...cause they go up whenever silver goes up..and there collectable...silver eagles are the best thing out there this age

arlan
21st November 2008, 17:42
better to buy a little of everything 90per coins..and 10 oz .999 bars...and of course silver eagles and proofs...few morgans ..its better investment then huge bars...cause they go up whenever silver goes up..and there collectable...silver eagles are the best thing out there this age

My feelings exactly. I had pondered those big old bricks being a pita. Smaller is better in this case. I wish I was closer to a dealer. Internet and wiring money is another pita.

Dimes!!!!!!!!! The coin premium is way up. I see monex.com advertise that a $1,000 bag will alway be worth $1,000 face value. What a stupid advertisement!!

Eagles, I agree are the most desirable. But they cost a full third more. They have instant assay value by face, I guess.

I have found it a bit of a hassle to buy what you what at any rate.

I have bad feelings about the near future. Everything is telling us something serous is close at hand.

I do have a a little liquidity, property, gold, silver and no payments but never enough.

I see silver is up about 70 cents today. Buy yesterday.

Thanks to all responders

arlan

cdavport
21st November 2008, 22:27
So it is all speculation, Duh! My bad. $1.99 is about the best per 100 oz price I have heard....thanks

Apmex price of 1.99 is for JM bars arriving a month from now. Check out the prices at www.goldwetrust.com

valerb
22nd November 2008, 00:59
Don't listen to that crap about North West Territorial Mint taking 12 - 14 weeks to deliver. It can, depending on what you order. However they specialize in one ounce silver rounds and without a doubt sell more than any other mint. You can buy 1 ounce bar, 5 oz bars, 10 oz bars, 100 oz bars and even 1000 oz bars from them. They also sell gold and other precious metals. It's when you order items other than their one ounce silver rounds that will cause a prolonged delay. There are dozens of reports on this forum concerning the length of time it takes to receive their one ounce silver rounds and it is between 4 and 5 weeks, even though the estimated deliver will be 12 - 14. That is their standard estimate for all orders. As long as you only order NWTM one ounce silver rounds, you can expect to see them in 4 - 5 weeks. Buying 1,000 ounces is approximately $1.00 or $1.05 over spot. Their web address is http://www.nwtmintbullion.com/SilverBullion.htm and no one beats their price for silver rounds, period. They ship out 150,000 ounces of silver each and every week when others have to wait weeks at a time just to get any in to sell and then they have a huge premium.
Engelhard and JM 100 oz bars are my favorite, but they are hard to get now and the premium is way to high.
Your best bang for the dollar is buying a 1,000 ounce bar at 59 cents over spot, but I don't think that is a smart move if this is the only silver you will have. You can also buy 100 oz Pan American bars from NWTM for something like 90 cents over spot, if you are buying ten bars. They are not as preferred as Engelhard or JM, but when selling them you might get a little less. However that does not justify the much higher premium you'll have to pay at today's prices. The difference between ordering one ounce rounds and their 100 oz bars is the length of time it takes to get the 100 oz bars. No one has reported how long it takes to get their Pan American bars. They had the best prices when hardly anyone was buying silver and they have the best prices when almost no one has any silver to sell. People keep talking about NWTM defaulting and people loosing their money. They have been in business for something like 20 years and like I said before, they ship more silver than anyone else today. They stick to their premiums, if the price drops to $7 on Monday, you'll still be able to buy it from them for $1.00 over spot. I not only preach NWTM's low prices, but I own thousands of their silver rounds myself. One ounce silver rounds and 100 oz bars are the most common silver sold, there is just a shortage of 100 oz bars so the premiums have gone through the roof. Earlier this year you could have bought Engelhard or JM 100 oz bars for as little as 25 to 30 cents over spot per ounce.

cdavport
22nd November 2008, 01:12
\ As long as you only order NWTM one ounce silver rounds, you can expect to see them in 4 - 5 weeks. .

I have read the same thing on this forum. I wrote NWTM a couple of days ago about this very question. Here is question and response.

I currently have an order in for 100 oz. bars with an expected delivery time of 14 weeks.
I have been told that the waiting time for delivery of 1 oz. rounds is less than other forms of silver because NWTM makes them on a more regular basis. Is this true?
Thanks in advance.


Northwest Territorial Mint - Roger Renken to me
show details Nov 20 (1 day ago) Reply
"No, the delays have more to do with backlog in shipping than a backlog in production.
Same time frames for both."

GO FIGURE--Doesn't match with what we are hearing. If buyers on this sight are truly getting their rounds 4-5 week, someone needs to tell Mr. Renken.

valerb
22nd November 2008, 05:09
I have read the same thing on this forum. I wrote NWTM a couple of days ago about this very question. Here is question and response.

I currently have an order in for 100 oz. bars with an expected delivery time of 14 weeks.
I have been told that the waiting time for delivery of 1 oz. rounds is less than other forms of silver because NWTM makes them on a more regular basis. Is this true?
Thanks in advance.

Northwest Territorial Mint - Roger Renken to me
show details Nov 20 (1 day ago) Reply
"No, the delays have more to do with backlog in shipping than a backlog in production.
Same time frames for both."

GO FIGURE--Doesn't match with what we are hearing. If buyers on this sight are truly getting their rounds 4-5 week, someone needs to tell Mr. Renken.

NWTM got into a legal problem with the sate of Washington for promising to make deliveries when they "never" met those promises. They did this for many years. I know this from personal experience, but the price was so good I kept going back, knowing I would have to wait six to eight weeks for my silver. They make no exceptions about any orders and make no claims about when they can actually make those deliveries other than how long it will take to fill "any" request. They stopped taking orders for Engelhard and JM 100 ounce bars a couple of months ago or longer. I assume it is because they could not quote a delivery time and meet it.

I started the thread about North West Territorial Mint delivery times at least two month ago and it has been one of the top threads since. Many individuals have responded with how long it has been taking them to actually get their silver from NWTM and that includes two orders for myself in that time period.

Without exception, no one has reported taking longer than 4 - 5 weeks when ordering just NWTM silver rounds.

When they ordered NWTM silver bars, the wait time was only a couple weeks longer in most cases, some less.


The only reason they have been delivering silver faster than in the past, when hardly anyone was ordering silver, is the fact that they have increased their production by 500% this year. I for one, along with thousands of other fans of NWTM silver and their prices am very please with the legal outcome in Washington.

They deserved whatever the state did or threatened to do to them for lying about their delivery times. In spite of the long quoted delivery times, they are obviously continuing to pile up orders which has continued to increase those delivery dates.

Do not confuse how long it will take them to fill orders for Platinum, gold, ASE's, which is all part of their ordering system.

The only facts known for sure is how long it takes to receive the one ounce silver rounds and the approximate length of time to receive their five and ten ounce bars.

The rest of their orders will take anywhere between the 4 -5 weeks for the one ounce rounds and the 12 - 14 weeks quoted for everything.

I've made the same statement numerous times, IF YOU WANT YOUR SILVER IN FOUR TO FIVE WEEKS, DO NOT ORDER ANYTHING ELSE WITH YOUR ORDER FOR SILVER ROUNDS.

NWTM is no different than any other dealer when it comes to being able to deliver gold, platinum, 90%, ASE or anything else they do not make themselves.

Their massive increase in silver production from 6,000 ounces a day to 30,000 ounces is the reason they are shipping faster today than any time in the past ten years that I have been ordering from them.

I have no doubt at all that the length of time for silver rounds would be much longer if they were quoting how long it would actually take. Far more people would be ordering from them rather than other dealers quoting delivery times of 30 days. There are far too many who have paid several dollars an ounce above spot thinking they are safer only waiting 30 days from some other on-line dealer than waiting 12 - 14 weeks for NWTM. In reality, they have been the victims of the legal action taken against NWTM by paying far more than they had to.

No matter how many people report the much shorter delivery time for their silver rounds, it's these people who keep reporting what they think it will take based on the times quoted by NWTM that is scaring others away. I don't know if you people are following the facts or are just posting contrary information to get people to place orders with some other dealers.

My only interest is the same as for myself. I want the best deal on silver that I can find for myself and I want to share that information.

If you want to pay several dollars an ounce over spot for silver rounds, be my guest, but please stop trying to get others to pay that much as well.

If you are afraid to wait 4 - 5 weeks for the best deal on silver rounds, then by all means pay the much higher premiums. It's not worth the savings if your going to have nightmares for a month.

The one fact that I believe everyone should take note of and that is, that NWTM has been the only consistent source of silver rounds non-stop this entire year. I also believe they have sold more silver rounds in the past several months than all the other large on-line dealer combined. I'm only talking about generic silver rounds, not all silver in total. It's hard to compare one ounce rounds to the volume of 1,000 ounce bars.

One other thing, when everyone was yelling the end is near, we are out of silver, there is none to be had anywhere. NWTM was still producing and selling 150,000 ounces each and every week and that has been new silver, not recycled silver rounds. I'm sure some of it was recycled 1,000 ounce silver bars, too bad more mints were not doing the same to draw down the industrial inventory levels.

I don't know where it has come from, but if you've been looking at the on-line dealers, there is a lot more silver available today than a couple of weeks ago, while others are promising to be able to ship in a few weeks.

One_of_Many
22nd November 2008, 12:45
Arlan, This has been posted here before so you may have already read it, but I think its worth posting again for anyone who hasn't.

Developing A Plan & Acquiring Physical Gold and Silver

Important questions to ask:

1. Why am I trading to acquire metals…for what reason(s) do I want them?
2. Am I in for the Long-term or the Short-term?
3. How do I plan to budget my income to create discretionary monies that
I can trade for metals?
4. Which metals do I plan to acquire?
5. Do I plan to hold physical metals, or trade for “paper”/”e” metals, or a
combination of both? If the latter, what percentage of each?
6. What forms of each metal do I want to own?
7. What percentages (in ounces) of each form of metal do I plan to acquire,
and by what ball-park future date do I want to have them in hand?
8. Where do I plan to get my metals?
9. How many Federal Reserve Notes do I plan to make available each week
to trade for metals?
10. Where do I plan to store the physical metals I acquire?
11. Depending on location, what kinds of containers and what methods am I
going to use to securely store my metals?
12. Where do I plan to store my frequently changing written inventory of
metals I hold?
13. What trusted persons will I make privy to where I’ve hidden the inventory,
that also reports the locations of my stored metals?
14. Am I going to maintain and hide one or two copies of my metals
inventory?

The “Rules”:

1. Acquire metals as a store of wealth for current and future security.
2. The only PMs you own are the ones you hold in your hand.
3. “Mums” the word!
4. Don’t think of gold and silver as “commodities” and don’t think of trading
for them in the short-term.
5. Don’t think in terms of “buying” and “selling” metals. Rather, think in
terms of “trading” them “in” and “trading” them “out”.
6. Never chase a runaway stagecoach. It always comes back – sometimes
not all the way, but it will retreat and this is the time to climb onboard.
7. Cost-average all trades over the long haul, and consider acquiring on
downward trends when spot is near or at the 200 DMA (Day Moving
Average).
8. Don’t look at spot prices unless and until you’re ready to trade.
9. If you forget rule #8 it will hurt you.
10. Plan safe and secure storage before you acquire any metals.
11. When planning storage consider the possibilities of fire, metal detectors,
and intrusive government.
12. Store your metals in multiple locations and figuratively forget about them.
13. Keep a precise written inventory of your holdings and where they’re
located.
14. Tell at least two trusted family members about the metals you have, and
where you’ve hidden your inventory.
15. Don’t track the value of your holdings. It doesn’t matter what their
market value is, period. You aren’t going to use your holdings for
collateral and what are you going to trade holdings for anyway, FRNs?
Please!
16. Trade first to get silver, then get gold.
17. Consider avoiding platinum and palladium, and avoid pre-1933 U.S. and
World Gold Coins unless you have numismatic interest, want to collect
them, and know exactly what you’re doing.
18. Cash & carry trading with no name and no paper or e-trail is the best
policy.
19. Diversity is the hallmark of a prudent investor.
20. Bars are neither the most liquid nor the most frequently traded form of
bullion.
21. Consider avoiding 50 and 100-ounce silver bars, avoid all gold bars that
don’t have an assay card, and limit the bars you acquire to only those
produced by Engelhard, Johnson Matthey (JM), Credit Suisse, and Credit
Pamp.
22. Begin by trading to acquire pre-1965 U.S. 90% silver dimes, quarters, and
half-dollars. Optimally first get dimes, then quarters and halves. Consider
working to achieve a ratio of perhaps 50% dimes, 25% quarters, and 25%
halves.
23. While working to obtain the total amount of 90% desired, start acquiring
name brand Englehard, Johnson Matthey (JM), and Sunshine1-ounce
silver rounds and/or bars (depending on preference and premium).
Additional choices might include generic rounds struck by A-Mark, Monex,
U.S. Assay Office, Silvertowne, Pan American, Northwest Territorial Mint,
and others that are frequently seen and thus highly recognizable. Also
acquire 1- ounce U.S. Silver Eagle and/or 1-ounce Canadian Silver Maple
Leaf modern bullion coins.
24. Begin to acquire 10-ounce name-brand silver bars. Choose in order:
Engelhard, Johnson Matthey, Sunshine, A-Mark, U.S. Assay Office, and
Silvertowne.
25. The desired ratio in ounces of 90% silver coins, rounds/bars, and U.S.
Silver Eagles and/or Canadian Silver Maple Leafs, varies among
individuals. Optimally a person should trade to acquire over time, the total
amount of each form and ratio of forms that their plan calls for.
26. When diverse forms of silver are in-hand, begin trading to obtain a mix of
1-ounce and fractional-ounce U.S. Gold Eagles and/or Canadian Gold
Maple Leafs, and think about acquiring South African 1-ounce gold
Kruggerands and fractional ounce British gold Sovereigns that trade at a
small amount over spot.

One_of_Many
22nd November 2008, 13:39
a few more things to consider about 1000oz bars.... They are never 1000oz's. Those I have seen ranged from 975 to 1050oz's. Most are over 1000. They are weighed and stamped with their exact weight after pouring. Plan your budget accordingly.

You get the most for your money buying a large bar but may very well end up paying for an assay when selling. This can cost up to 10% from what I have been told. [someone please correct me if i am wrong. I have never had to do it yet] I buy from a large dealer who is local and have built up a pretty good relationship with them, and have been told they will not charge me for an assay if I resell bars I purchased from them back to them. Now if this is actually true when the day comes I decide to sell remains to be seen. I am assuming I will pay an assay in my costs.

1000oz bars are big and heavy. Have a place ready to store it BEFORE you buy. They weigh about 70lbs so you won't want to move it around much. A place where you can spend the afternoon with it now and then is nice [you'll want to] but security is the primary concern.

Here is some photos of my first one. They are kinda rough looking compared to other forms of silver but still so very very beautiful....

http://skychasers.net/1000oz.htm

I have made most of my purchases locally and in person and if at all possible I recommend you do the same. Nothing beats cash and carry. Another thing to consider is that transactions over 10,000$ require a paper trail. Under 10k does not.

Local supply has been scarce for the past 3 months and I have made 4 purchases from apmex since September. Items listed as in stock were shipped in 2-3 days of order and were in my hands in under a week. Maple leafs I ordered at the time were listed as having a 2 week delay but arrived a week ahead of the expected delivery date. They are the only on line dealer I have ever ordered from but they have been great so far.

hope this helps some,
cheers

Frelodr
22nd November 2008, 16:07
Looking at that makes me want to go dig mine up. Than I could have it close by and maybe stroke it a few times. LOL. Lodr

arlan
22nd November 2008, 18:01
I have made most of my purchases locally and in person and if at all possible I recommend you do the same. Nothing beats cash and carry. Another thing to consider is that transactions over 10,000$ require a paper trail. Under 10k does not.

Is a paper trail left when using a personal check or only money that has been wired. Excuse my ignorance.

The thought of confiscation make my blood boil. I'm sure allot of people would assume that if the government came knocking that they might get a persons stash and also some lead. In reality a citizen really would have an almost impossible job fighting back.

Arlan

ascentient
22nd November 2008, 18:35
There'll be a paper trail for anything but cash. Here in OH if you buy more than $2500 at a time they require your ID to be registered. Needless to say I don't buy local here any more.

Put simply, even if they think you've got silver/gold it is hard to find the evidence - searching through all transaction records would be a challenge. Then they actually have to FIND it. So don't keep it within sight of your front door in case someone knocks. ;)

One_of_Many
22nd November 2008, 21:48
Anything that has your name on it leaves a paper trail of some sort, be it a personal check, credit card or what ever. Paying cash is the only way to avoid it.

There are two types of federal reporting required, that I know of. One is the CTR and the other is Form 8300

Currency Transaction Report (CTR):

In an effort to prevent and detect money laundering and other financial crimes, the Bank Secrecy Act requires that all financial institutions report most currency transactions that exceed $10,000 using a Currency Transaction Report (CTR).

Reportable currency transactions include:

* Deposits.
* Withdrawals.
* Cash exchanges.
* Foreign currency exchanges.
* Loans funded or paid in cash.
* Wire transfers.
* Purchasing or cashing of securities, cashier's or official checks, money orders and savings bonds.

Financial institutions must complete and submit a CTR within 15 days following the day of the transaction if filing a paper CTR, and within 25 days if filing magnetically. CTRs must be maintained by the filing institution for five years.

Form 8300 Requirements:

The law requires any person engaged in a trade or business who receives more than $10,000 in cash in any one transaction, or two or more related transactions, to report the transaction to the IRS within 15 days of receipt of the cash on Form 8300. The law also requires that a properly filed Form 8300 contains the correct cash payer's name, address and tax identification number, as well as the amount of cash received and the date and nature of the transaction.

So basically what these two laws say is that anytime you deposit, withdraw or transfer over 10k$ in most forms, your bank must report it to the federal government on a CTR. And any time you make a purchase over 10k in cash, cashier’s check, bank draft, traveler’s check, or money order the seller must report on form 8300.
The way I read the law, a personal check or credit card purchase would not meet the requirements of either regulation needed to generate an automatic report to the feds. It would still leave its own form of paper trail for any one that came looking though, like the IRS maybe. They will be interested in any capitol gains you may have made.

I keep records and get receipts for all the purchases I make no matter how I pay. It makes it easier to keep track of what I have and costs.

cdavport
22nd November 2008, 21:57
There'll be a paper trail for anything but cash. Here in OH if you buy more than $2500 at a time they require your ID to be registered. Needless to say I don't buy local here any more.

Put simply, even if they think you've got silver/gold it is hard to find the evidence - searching through all transaction records would be a challenge. Then they actually have to FIND it. So don't keep it within sight of your front door in case someone knocks. ;)

Probably better to not even have on your premesis, if possible, when it comes to confiscation. I keep mine off property, and my stock answer will always be, "I sold that silver some time ago at a capital loss."

hiyosilver
22nd November 2008, 23:58
park around the corner and carry some pepper spray.......no tax, no checks, no name, no address, no phone number*, no bs,....just "play" money for real money and a grin....and no trail...that's the way my friend does it...


*well, he does use a no contract cell phone....and Craig also has a long list of sellers....

unalga
23rd November 2008, 02:17
Maybe different in different States, but my local dealer does ot ask for any ID.

Buys or sells up to $20,000 he just takes my cash or for a sale makes the check out to any name I give him, no ID at any time.

arlan
23rd November 2008, 12:12
park around the corner and carry some pepper spray.......no tax, no checks, no name, no address, no phone number*, no bs,....just "play" money for real money and a grin....and no trail...that's the way my friend does it...


*well, he does use a no contract cell phone....and Craig also has a long list of sellers....

Sounds like quite a life! But, "it ain't me babe". LOL

Asheron
23rd November 2008, 13:14
Buy Coins, they hold silver value and collector value. And when you need to buy food in the Great Depression, you have small silver.

hiyosilver
24th November 2008, 02:23
Sounds like quite a life! But, "it ain't me babe". LOL



I don't think you got the jest of my post.....just run a "want to buy" ad on craigslist for slightly over spot for 90%.....you might be surprised what you come up with....just be sure you meet the people in a public place like a restaurant...


If you want to see what the present spot rate is for silver coins, go to this site:

http://www.coininfo.com/



(sorry, guys, but I don't pay premiums if I don't have to and been getting all I want...and I sure don't buy PM off ebay....might start selling there though if this "premium" thing keeps up.....:))

JCM6395
24th November 2008, 17:47
Greaves....I will look into NTM. Sounds great if they are...Arlan

I just started buying silver this past year. No danger of my 50 oz. cornering the market though :) I've been buying American Silver Eagles and rounds from Northwest Territorial Mint. They tell you 30 days but I usually get mine in less than that. Course when you only order 10 oz at a time, I guess its pretty easy to fill that order.

iosilveraway
4th December 2008, 13:36
I can assure anyone reading these posts that a large purchase ($9,000+) DOES NOT insure fast or even reasonable delivery time with APMEX. I've been waiting since October for a shipment of silver paid for with cash! After several emails I have received 200 ounces but am still waiting for the rest.
Look, I appreciate that there may even be an explanation for this-such as, we don't want to risk losing everything in one shipment-but NOBODY has bothered to make explanation. And this IS an unreasonable amount of time to have to wait! I've been treated better by sellers of things with whom I've only spent $9.00! I suppose I will receive the rest of my order-but I'm certainly not mentally at peace with the idea that I haven't been ripped off.
I had planned on spending a great deal more money with this company but I think I'm going back to Austin where I've bought lots of Gold. If you are thinking about spending a lot of money with this company, you may want to wait until you hear via this forum how this turns out!:mad:

iosilveraway
7th December 2008, 12:54
APMEX order placed on october 23, 08. After several emails, got 200 ounces on December 2. Finally got rest of order on December 6.
Understanding soul who realizes that there ARE circumstances beyond people's control-in just about every circumstance in life. Do NOT understand when there is no communication regarding the occurence of those circumstances. Communication builds good customer relations and brings customers back even when a transaction doesn't go smooth.
Just food for thought.