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LETMYSILVERGO
14th November 2008, 09:19
oxygen absorbers YOU CAN BUY THEM ON EBAY,, I JUST DID...

SO HOP TO IT, BEFORE THE BUGS EAT YOUR FOOD STASH.

$$28.00 ====200 oxygen absorbers

cugir321
14th November 2008, 09:48
They should ship quick on ebay...somebody was thinking ahead and bought. If you buy on the internet from a company then be sure to ask...are they in stock and how long will it take to ship? One company said they weren't receiving from the supplier until dec. Some will take your money and make you wait.

When you open the bag you've got 15 or so minutes to get the food containers sealed. Be sure to follow their instructions for resealing or storing any left over absorbers. They go bad after a 1/2 hour or so in the air...must be sealed in a jar or such quickly. Get some mylar bags too. 20 x 30 for a 5 or 6 gallon bucket. You don't have to have them but they give you extra protection of food....gamma lids are great for bucket (on internet...I got one at ace hardware yesterday). At least have one with a gasket in the lid.


oxygen absorbers YOU CAN BUY THEM ON EBAY,, I JUST DID...

SO HOP TO IT, BEFORE THE BUGS EAT YOUR FOOD STASH.

$$28.00 ====200 oxygen absorbers

mick silver
14th November 2008, 10:54
home depot has some great buckets for under 4 bucks an the lid has a rubber seal on it

LETMYSILVERGO
14th November 2008, 11:00
Good Deal ..home Depot...i Need Some Sealable Buckets...i Will Folow The Instructions On The Absorbers, Thanks Ross

cugir321
14th November 2008, 15:52
Make sure they have a triangle with a #2 and the letters HDPE on the bottom of the bucket....these should be food safe. You can still buy mylar bags. They will make your food last a few extra years. They're the metal looking bags you see dried fruit and such sold in. I bought some from a nice lady at http://www.survivalunlimited.com/buckets.htm
They're 1.89 each for the 20 x 30 which goes in a 5 to 6 gallon bucket. You can throw a oxygen absorber in the bottom then fill it with rice, throw another on top, seal the bag with a teflon clothes iron and a 2 x 4 board. throw one in the bucket and seal the top....1500 to 2000cc total will suffice...I do 2000 to be safe. It's that easy. Do it all within 20 minutes...the aborbers will be bad after a 1/2 hour or so. She's out of the absorbers until December. Ebay has them. Check their feedback to be sure they ship quick.

I also got a bucket opener and some Diatomaceous Earth. You use the earth after you open a bucket to consume the wheat. Sift a couple cups through the grain until all of it is covered....it's mainly for wheat. It keeps the bugs dead as you eat the open container...it's edible I'm told. wheat is the biggest problem...rice and beans not.

gamma lids can be opened and resealed because they have an air tight screw on lid...they're about 11.00. It's nice to have a couple when you start eating the grain. They're listed on the web...search goggle.

The biggest problem is this....I looked at ebay this morning. One good vendor, I believe it's MRS, had 71 packs of absorbers showing. If there's a run on food, how long do you think they'll last? There's maybe 1000 total from listings on ebay. They're hard to buy locally. I called a distributor in New York today...I asked, how long does it take to ship? She said, we don't give out that info. I said, thanks, no thanks, good bye! They are waiting too!!!

Do it now and you won't have to say, oh crap! what will I do?

Even the guy at the coin shop today said the same thing...you can't find the absorbers or mylar bags locally. you can just fill the bucket without a mylar bag but the grain isn't as protected and won't have a back up with the bag if it leaks and air gets in.

valerb
15th November 2008, 05:57
home depot has some great buckets for under 4 bucks an the lid has a rubber seal on it

Not 5 Gallon buckets for under $4, they are just under $5 and they are not food grade. They are only 70 mils thick and the lid cost $2.49. So you are looking at $7.50 for a cheap bucket made out of recycled material.

I did a lot of searching on the web for real food grade buckets and the best deal I could find is with a company called Uline.com. They sell several different sizes, but the best deal is with the 5 gallon bucket at $4.29 each and the lids with an O-ring gasket is only $1.19 for a total of $5.48 each. That's $2.00 less than Home Depot.
They have a minimum order of five buckets. These buckets are 90 mils thick and FDA, USDA and NSF approved food grade made out of 100% virgin material.
You really only want to use food grade buckets, even if your using Mylar bags. Using a Mylar bag gives you double protection from oxygen. If you only store in the bucket alone and have a slow air leak, your food is ruined. The same goes for only putting Oxygen in the Mylar bag and not the bucket. If the bag springs a leak, the oxygen in the bucket ruins the food. So you always want to use a Mylar bag with oxygen absorbers and then use oxygen absorbers in the bucket outside of the Mylar bag for double protection.
The oxygen absorbers can cause the sides of a 70 mil thick bucket to get sucked in where that doesn't happen with the 90 mil buckets. This also allows you to stack these buckets without the worry of them tipping over because lower buckets are deformed from the oxygen absorbers.

Buckets are not cheap to ship from any source but Uline uses real UPS rates not inflated rates to add to the shippers profit margin.
Uline has warehouses located in the following cities where you can pick them up and save the shipping costs: Chicago, Atlanta, Dallas, Los Angeles, Minneapolis, Toronto, Breinigsville Pa, located between NY city and Phili.
The pail number is S-7914 and the lid number is S-9938. I lucked out, the Atlanta warehouse is only about six miles from my house.
These buckets come in White, blue, green, black and yellow and say they are all food grade.
I've read that the dye can be less safe, so I only order the white ones just to be sure.
No matter where you buy them, make sure they are 90 mils thick and state they are food grade.
Do not go by the triangle on the bottom of the bucket with the number 2 in the triangle, that just indicates the type of material it is made of.
Neither Home Depot, Lowe's, Walmart or Ace hardware sell food grade buckets.
As far as buying oxygen absorbers is concerned, they will go bad in their original packaging. Some brands have a small object in the bag to indicate the status of the oxygen absorbers, if it changes color, they are no longer any good. For that reason, I would not buy them on E-bay. I only purchase them from survival type businesses. There are wide price ranges for this absorbers, so shop around. I think the best deal seems to be with the 500 cc size. The only tip I can give to really test the oxygen absorbers is to seal the food in them and let the bag set in the bucket for a couple of days. If they are any good, you'll see the bag shrink in size. Even if it is not tight against the food, that does not indicate that there is still oxygen in the bag. Oxygen is only 20% of the air, the rest is harmless. It's best to remove as much air as possible when sealing. Mylar bags are really strong. I filled one with air and sealed it then stood on the bag and it didn't break. But take any share object and it will pop like a balloon. So you should never put sharp objects like spaghetti in them without the spaghetti being in a separate bag that has been opened. I used gallon size freezer bags inside the Mylar bags. Leave the freezer bags open!!! I have never used gamma lids because of the high cost. I just put in additional oxygen absorbers and reseal the bucket. I also hardly ever use five gallon size bags. Not many can use the entire contents of a five gallon bucket before it goes bad unless you have a large family. I normally use smaller Mylar bags and I don't have to worry about transferring the contents from one opened five gallon bag into another. You can try and reseal the opened 5 gallon Mylar bag but the contents usually coat the inside and when you try to reseal it, it does work.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 08:35
Cabela's has them...sporting goods store. They're not the real heavy mil buckets but they'll work...especially if you use mylar bags. Get white. No dye in plastic. Their lids won't work. I called the company Reliance and they said they're more of a dust cover....actually a lot of paint stores have #2 hdpe buckets....I'm not sure I'd use the buckets they have even though they're #2's but the lids should be fine. They have a seal gasket and a pour spout that seals. You can use plumbers goop (home depot) for an extra seal around the spout. That stuff is really good and food safe. (they use it on water pipes) There's a nice area around the spout that will take the goop well. I use goop on a hydrogen cell. It seals under pressure. It's easy to remove with a pen knife.

Correction...I just tried one of the paint store lids on the cabela's bucket. There's a zip pull along the bottom of the lid. It doesn't go over a second lip that sits about an inch below the top edge of the bucket. You can use them to reseal a bucket after you remove the zip pull...even without the zip pull the bucket seals fairly well and has a spout but, I wouldn't use it for long term storage.

I've got food already but this is why you can't wait til the last minute. I've got some cabela buckets with lids I'm unsure of. I'll replace them
Use the gamma lid's if you can or get buckets with lids made for them. With gasket.

One other thing...sardines last a long time....just bought some. 2013 expiration. They have 20 grams of protein. Enough for a minumum daily requirement


[QUOTE=valerb@bellsouth.net;22251]Not 5 Gallon buckets for under $4, they are just under $5 and they are not food grade. They are only 70 mils thick and the lid cost $2.49. So you are looking at $7.50 for a cheap bucket made out of recycled material.

LETMYSILVERGO
15th November 2008, 08:51
any one know the life span of, say basmati rice, in a tupper wear container, same with red lentlels or split beans?----it must take a while for the moth larvi to turn into a stinking worm or whatever it does.............thanks

cugir321
15th November 2008, 09:48
I believe the morman website has expiration dates of stored food. For super long term storage they usually recommend white rice. Definately not brown. It has too many oils. Beans don't have as many bug problems. They don't recommend tupperware for long term. I'm sure it would be better then just a bag and tupperware if you throw an oxygen absorber in.


any one know the life span of, say basmati rice, in a tupper wear container, same with red lentlels or split beans?----it must take a while for the moth larvi to turn into a stinking worm or whatever it does.............thanks

hiyosilver
15th November 2008, 12:04
Couldn't you seal a large enough plastic bag to a tapered end and then use one of those vacuum sealers to suck the air out then seal it? Then put the whole thing in your plastic bucket? Or just seal smaller portions in smaller bags to put in your bucket. That way you don't expose the whole supply to air when you open it.

main1event
15th November 2008, 12:58
White rice will fill you up but it has very little nutritional value. I do think its important psychologically.

hiyosilver
15th November 2008, 13:22
oh, btw, crickets in my area are very plentiful this year. In fact they're nutritional. Just pull off the legs, head, and wings and cook them up if you don't like slimy things. If you don't remove the legs though, the little barbs on them will tear up your gut. Did you ever watch the birds eat them? They grab the abdomen and shake the rest off. And for those of you that think this is a joke, it's a survival fact. Perhaps something to mix with your white rice...bon appetit! :)

cugir321
15th November 2008, 13:26
Yes you could, and it would help but, mylar is moisture, light, and fume resistant. For 20-25 dollars more you'll probably get another 5-10 years on wheat and 2-3 on beans and rice. Buy dried pinto beans. Nutritionally, they have the best bang for the buck....soak them a day in water then you can cook and eat them. You can get very bad cramps if you don't soak red beans before cooking. You could open a the bucket of rice in 7-8 years and it may look and taste decent but the nutritional value may be close to zero because of a small air leak. One things for sure, you wouldn't starve hungry. You could eat it...you'd still die in time...but with a full stomach. lol! Mylar bags are about 1.85 each. It's worth it. You actually can store in mylar without the bucket. The mylar in a bucket gives extra protection against air, light, and flavor degradation. You can seal them with a teflon coated clothes iron. Storing wheat is more sensitive. Get hard winter wheat......10% moisture or less, if possible. Very moist wheat can produce botalism. Google this stuff....it's all on the web. Don't be afraid if you store it properly. Just use common sense when you open it to eat it. I'm in Florida where it's humid. I'm not storing winter wheat. (it's tough to get down here) ( I did store wheat berries to grow wheat grass...they don't last forever because you can't seal them without oxygen. You use the diamatious earth to keep moisture down)

I found some more good #2 hdpe buckets at ace hardware. They're running a 20% off sale today. The buckets are made in the USA so the plastic should be non-recycled chinese type. The lids are gasket sealed. They also had a few gamma lids. I got three between two stores. One store charged me 7.99 with the discount. Excellant deal!

I'll say it again....when everyone says, oh shoot, I need dried food! You won't have a prayer of getting the supplies to long term store. They are starting to say it now.

I'll recap...get this:

mylar 20" x 30" bags...heat sealing type. You can reseal after opening.
oxygen absorbers - 2000cc/5-6 gallon bucket
#2 HDPE buckets with gasket seal lids...american made if possible. Nobody's going to know if they're american when you buy them. Some buckets say it on the bottom. white preferably....no dye in them. Gamma lids are fine colored.

Burticus
15th November 2008, 13:35
I just received my shipment of mylar bags, oxygen absorbers and dessicants (moisture absorbers). Since we live in Florida, weevils, moisture and heat can be major problems once anything is opened, so I did not want to have one big bag in a bucket. For this reason, we got 8X10 mylar bags (1 quart) and plan to bagulate food in meal-sized portions, then put the bags in buckets. Following a tip from a survivalist blog, I ordered from Sorbent Systems, who seemed to have good prices. Blog also said not to use dessicants with beans, and that it helps if you suck out as much air as possible, or replace air with nitrogen or carbon dioxide before adding the O2 absorbers and sealing. Some sites say that beans and rice properly sealed may last 20+ years.

Questions: (1) If food is sealed in small mylar bags, why would one also need expensive food grade buckets?
(2) What problems are encountered when storing brown rice? We had planned on buying brown rice rather than white, since has more nutritional value, including B vitamins.

Thanks for the spaghetti tip. It is a much more compact form of pasta than elbows.

Already stockpiled my precious metals, silver and lead, "the other white metal," and serious lead-delivery equipment. I also plan to buy a British Berkfield gravity water purifier, in case we must execute Plan B and head for the woods after the anthills are stomped.

hiyosilver
15th November 2008, 13:41
You think I could get a patent on mylar bag rolls for vacuum food sealers then? Seems it would be the ticket... (omg, the ridiculously priced survival sites are going to put out a hit on me....)

cugir321
15th November 2008, 13:47
Some sites say be careful with dessicant...some have silicon...most people don't use it. i've hear about the c02/nitrogen thing....co2 is cheap. They say to leave a crack in the lid and spray for 30 seconds then close it.

Food grade buckets aren't really much more...maybe a dollar. Extra protection from chemicals in cheap chinese plastic.

Brown rice has oil in the brown. Only lasts a few years....I would forget the extra nutrition and just buy some dry vitamins (vitamin c last a long time in storage) and throw them in a sealed bucket. Check out the morman site they talk about brown rice. those guys got it down to a science. they all have a years supply of food...always. You'll have to decide...10 years of sustaining food or 3 years of great nutrition.

Actually that's a good tip on the spagetti...I've got both but I'll buy more thin style instead of elbows. You can fit a heck of a lot in a 5 gallon bucket.

I'm going to have to read up on crickets and grasshoppers in florida...I see some wild looking ones where I hunt. Big juicy critters.



I just received my shipment of mylar bags, oxygen absorbers and dessicants (moisture absorbers). Since we live in Florida, weevils, moisture and heat can be major problems once anything is opened, so I did not want to have one big bag in a bucket. For this reason, we got 8X10 mylar bags (1 quart) and plan to bagulate food in meal-sized portions, then put the bags in buckets. Following a tip from a survivalist blog, I ordered from Sorbent Systems, who seemed to have good prices. Blog also said not to use dessicants with beans and that it helps if you suck out as much air as possible, or replace with nitrogen or carbon dioxide before adding the O2 absorbers and sealing.

Questions: (1) If food is sealed in small mylar bags, why would one also need expensive food grade buckets, except as an extra layer of protection?
(2) What problems are encountered when storing brown rice? We had planned on buying brown rice rather than white, since has more nutritional value, including B vitamins.

Thanks for the spaghetti tip. It is a much more compact form of pasta than elbows.

Already stockpiled my precious metals, silver and lead, "the other white metal," and serious lead-delivery equipment. I also plan to buy a British Berkfield gravity water purifier, in case we must execute Plan B and head for the woods after the anthills are stomped.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 14:06
The sealers are expensive...just use a teflon coated iron and a 2 x 4 or wood shower rod. It's not going to get any cheaper then now.
You think I could get a patent on mylar bag rolls for vacuum food sealers then? Seems it would be the ticket... (omg, the ridiculously priced survival sites are going to put out a hit on me....)

bigspoke
15th November 2008, 17:49
I just got 5 food grade buckets with gasket lids (5 gal 90 mil) from the bakery dept at Wal Mart. They empty the icing for cakes and sell them for a buck and donate it to charity :idea:. PS-it's the only thing I bought from the BIG BOX today. Wish I could keep that up.

Bigspoke

LETMYSILVERGO
15th November 2008, 18:03
Yea I Went To Our Local Iga And They Have Been Selling The Buckets For A Buck For Years=====as The Writier Before Me...they Have A Deli There That Makes Cakes, And The Iceing Comes In Buckets, They Are White And I Guess Fit For Fooooooooooooood....so One Less Thing, As Forrest Gump Would Say.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 18:54
I'm not sure I'd reuse the lids...that's a good strong bucket. I talked to reliance plastic company and they said once the lids been removed you lose some effective seal. If the bucket is going to sit with food for 5-15 years I want the best dang seal I can get. Ace hardware has a lid that should work on standard 12" buckets (12" across mouth) It's like 15.00 for 5 lids. The walmart lid will probably work....hummm. Probably... is a drag if it doesn't 7 years down the road. You don't want to short cut the seal. A small leak my cut your food life in half. Most have a pull tab around the edge of the lid thats removed to open it. This holds the edge together so it doesn't lift at all over time. Use a 2 x 4 and a hammer to seat the lid. They take some smacking to seat.


I just got 5 food grade buckets with gasket lids (5 gal 90 mil) from the bakery dept at Wal Mart. They empty the icing for cakes and sell them for a buck and donate it to charity :idea:. PS-it's the only thing I bought from the BIG BOX today. Wish I could keep that up.

Bigspoke

hiyosilver
15th November 2008, 19:02
The sealers are expensive...just use a teflon coated iron and a 2 x 4 or wood shower rod. It's not going to get any cheaper then now.


"vacuum" is the key word

Insects and their larvae cannot survive in a low oxygen environment, such as that created when you vacuum package your dry foods such as flour, cornstarch, corn meal and cereals.


Oxygen absorbers are not an effective treatment method for plastic buckets, milk bottles, or other types of plastic bottles not identified as PETE or PET under the recycle symbol.

valerb
15th November 2008, 20:57
I'll say it again, the hardware stores do not sell food grade buckets. As far as the buckets from the grocery stores, make sure they have an O-ring style gasket not the small dab of silicone or whatever it is in the lid. They may work for a one time shot, but if you notice, most of the original items have a second seal which is plastic under the lid to keep any air out. That is the type of seal Walmart uses in their 5 gallon buckets and they are also 70 mils thick. Do not buy lids without an O-ring gasket.
You can use a 2x4 and a hammer to attach the lid, but you run the risk of damaging the lid and bucket. The best thing to use is a rubber mallet. Being able to reseal a Mylar bag after it has been opened will only work if the contents are a solid material that does not cause any part of it's content to stick to the walls of the bag and that doesn't leave too many items. Once any of the contents are on the bag walls, it will not seal properly. Trust me, I've experimented with several different food items. Oatmeal, rice, flour, wheat and anything that sheds, comes apart or is already in a powder form will not work. Don't gamble with your food trying to salvage a Mylar bag. Either use smaller Mylar bags or use a new 5 gallon bag to be safe. Use common sense when selecting items to store. Only store the things you normally eat. I eat what I store and rotate my inventory. My spaghetti sauce has a three year expiration date as does my tomato juice and canned beans for chili. So I use these items during the year and replace them every several months. Storing wheat is something most people will never use except in an emergency. On the other hand, flour is something you can use. I learned the hard way and ended up throwing a lot of items away. If you only store what you normally eat, your only costs are the Mylar bags, buckets and oxygen absorbers. Rice is dirt cheap and if you have dogs, they can eat it as well. Oatmeal is another item that stores forever and goes a long way for very little money. Just don't forget to store some non-fat powdered milk. You can also store smaller items like chili powder in mason jars with an oxygen absorber. I think the number one item that should be on everyone's list is canned butter. The cheapest place to purchase canned butter and canned cheese is MREDEPOT.COM. Shop around and compare their prices and you'll see what I mean. The dehydrated crap is just that.
You can not remove the oxygen with one of those sealing kits. It only removes most of the air, but what remains inside contains oxygen and will spoil your food. Some people use a vacuum system to remove most of the air before sealing with oxygen absorbers, just don't try that with anything in powder form.
You can buy a sample case of canned meat, try them all and see what you like if anything and stock up on those that you do like, they last for years. Just don't forget to eat them before they expire.

valerb
15th November 2008, 21:02
I'll say it again, the hardware stores do not sell food grade buckets. As far as the buckets from the grocery stores, make sure they have an O-ring style gasket not the small dab of silicone or whatever it is in the lid. They may work for a one time shot, but if you notice, most of the original items have a second seal which is plastic under the lid to keep any air out. That is the type of seal Walmart uses in their 5 gallon buckets and they are also 70 mils thick. Do not buy lids without an O-ring gasket.
You can use a 2x4 and a hammer to attach the lid, but you run the risk of damaging the lid and bucket. The best thing to use is a rubber mallet. Being able to reseal a Mylar bag after it has been opened will only work if the contents are a solid material that does not cause any part of it's content to stick to the walls of the bag and that doesn't leave too many items. Once any of the contents are on the bag walls, it will not seal properly. Trust me, I've experimented with several different food items. Oatmeal, rice, flour, wheat and anything that sheds, comes apart or is already in a powder form will not work. Don't gamble with your food trying to salvage a Mylar bag. Either use smaller Mylar bags or use a new 5 gallon bag to be safe. Use common sense when selecting items to store. Only store the things you normally eat. I eat what I store and rotate my inventory. My spaghetti sauce has a three year expiration date as does my tomato juice and canned beans for chili. So I use these items during the year and replace them every several months. Storing wheat is something most people will never use except in an emergency. On the other hand, flour is something you can use. I learned the hard way and ended up throwing a lot of items away. If you only store what you normally eat, your only costs are the Mylar bags, buckets and oxygen absorbers. Rice is dirt cheap and if you have dogs, they can eat it as well. Oatmeal is another item that stores forever and goes a long way for very little money. Just don't forget to store some non-fat powdered milk. You can also store smaller items like chili powder in mason jars with an oxygen absorber. I think the number one item that should be on everyone's list is canned butter. The cheapest place to purchase canned butter and canned cheese is MREDEPOT.COM. Shop around and compare their prices and you'll see what I mean. The dehydrated crap is just that.
You can not remove the oxygen with one of those sealing kits. It only removes most of the air, but what remains inside contains oxygen and will spoil your food. Some people use a vacuum system to remove most of the air before sealing with oxygen absorbers.
You can buy a sample case of canned meat, try them all and see what you like if anything and stock up on those that you do like, they last for years. Just don't forget to eat them before they expire.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 21:45
Actually I think I'm going to try desiccant in my next batch. Put it in for a week and check it...if it's dry, add the absorbers and whammo. This link tells how to make some desiccant containers from silica gel from walmart. Sounds workable if you keep it from getting into the grain. http://www.survival-center.com/foodfaq/ff17-oxy.htm#Desuse

I don't like sealing the desiccant in the bucket and removing the lid in a week like he mentions. I don't like messing with the seal. The bucket people say don't seal, remove and reseal unless your going to start eating the food. I think I'll try plastic wrap over the bucket and snugging the lid without seating it. I called the Reliance and they don't use recycled plastic...they're food grade. At least that's what they say. You can get them at Cabela's...the lids they have won't work. Gamma's fit them fine. Some other lids won't because of the secondary lip about an inch below the mouth..thinner lids will. Or you can take off some of the lip with a dremel What's listed as the company on the Walmart buckets you guys got.

Here's a link from another forum on leaktite buckets. The company says they use FDA approved resins. Ace Hardware sells them. Decide for yourself...I'm using them..I'll let you know if it kills me...link below:
(If you go to their website (http://www.leaktite.com/) and click on their "Packaging Products" button you'll see they indicate they use "FDA approved" resins in their HDPE buckets. Stick with the white buckets though as the colored ones are sometimes made with dyes that are not food safe. Leaktite does not advertise their buckets for food use so will not recommend them for that purpose, but they are in common use in many commercial restaurants which is how I came to learn of them myself.)

Actually you may be right about leaktite: seems like they took off the fda approved resin thing from their website...guess they're getting plastic from china. See, don't wait...you never know what you'll run into! lol!

I just got some diatomaceous earth. I'm going to dust all my grains also. It's cheap...a lb will do a lot of bucket.

I found if you don't have a hugh rubber mallet it can be difficult to get the lid on. The 2 x 4 hasn't damaged any of mine and applies force across a greater area. Either way...do it baby!

With a mort and pestal you can make flour from wheat, beans and other stuff. Bean flour is nice for soup. We all know about wheat flour. A coffee can between your feet and a stick or rod will work to make flour. LOL!!! Hope we don't go back to the middle ages! I've we do...surprise your neighbors with fresh bread! You can let them do the milling for a slice.

I hear you on the pack what you eat....I'm trying to pack a balance meal. Carbs and protein. Pinto's and rice will sustain life and has a lot of the necessary nutrients. I don't eat alot of rice but if it gets bad, I'll be glad for rice. I've got a mess of seeds I can grow in the windows since I rent. I'm growing cherry tomatoes right now...organic seeds. Wheat berry's (winter wheat) will grow in low light. They are close to the perfect food at 7 days growth (after planting sprouts) and gives you greens. You can chew the grass and spit out the pulp if you don't have a juicer...don't swallow it If you use organic seeds you can dry a few vegetables, remove the seeds and do it again and again. Tomatoes are high in "c"...C is necessary to ward off scurvy. Dried foods may not give you enough. "C" tablets store well in buckets from what I've read. I'm experimenting with my seeds presently. I'm in Florida so we get a lot of sun in the windows. I planted a few bush beans with my tomatoes. Remember to get some miracle grow if you want to do it long term. Our soil is real sandy down here so i need to add a little extra.

This could be fun! I wonder if they'll let me have a pig in my apartment. I love pork.



I'll say it again, the hardware stores do not sell food grade buckets. As far as the buckets from the grocery stores, make sure they have an O-ring style gasket not the small dab of silicone or whatever it is in the lid. They may work for a one time shot, but if you notice, most of the original items have a second seal which is plastic under the lid to keep any air out. That is the type of seal Walmart uses in their 5 gallon buckets and they are also 70 mils thick. Do not buy lids without an O-ring gasket.
You can use a 2x4 and a hammer to attach the lid, but you run the risk of damaging the lid and bucket. The best thing to use is a rubber mallet. Being able to reseal a Mylar bag after it has been opened will only work if the contents are a solid material that does not cause any part of it's content to stick to the walls of the bag and that doesn't leave too many items. Once any of the contents are on the bag walls, it will not seal properly. Trust me, I've experimented with several different food items. Oatmeal, rice, flour, wheat and anything that sheds, comes apart or is already in a powder form will not work. Don't gamble with your food trying to salvage a Mylar bag. Either use smaller Mylar bags or use a new 5 gallon bag to be safe. Use common sense when selecting items to store. Only store the things you normally eat. I eat what I store and rotate my inventory. My spaghetti sauce has a three year expiration date as does my tomato juice and canned beans for chili. So I use these items during the year and replace them every several months. Storing wheat is something most people will never use except in an emergency. On the other hand, flour is something you can use. I learned the hard way and ended up throwing a lot of items away. If you only store what you normally eat, your only costs are the Mylar bags, buckets and oxygen absorbers. Rice is dirt cheap and if you have dogs, they can eat it as well. Oatmeal is another item that stores forever and goes a long way for very little money. Just don't forget to store some non-fat powdered milk. You can also store smaller items like chili powder in mason jars with an oxygen absorber. I think the number one item that should be on everyone's list is canned butter. The cheapest place to purchase canned butter and canned cheese is MREDEPOT.COM. Shop around and compare their prices and you'll see what I mean. The dehydrated crap is just that.
You can not remove the oxygen with one of those sealing kits. It only removes most of the air, but what remains inside contains oxygen and will spoil your food. Some people use a vacuum system to remove most of the air before sealing with oxygen absorbers.
You can buy a sample case of canned meat, try them all and see what you like if anything and stock up on those that you do like, they last for years. Just don't forget to eat them before they expire.

LETMYSILVERGO
15th November 2008, 22:21
HOW ABOUT PACKING ON ALL THE WEIGHT YOU CAN BEFORE IT'S TOOO LATE. i'M GOING FOR THE SPHRICAL LOOK...YOU KNOW, ROUND. I'M 5'6'' 155LBS...SHOOTING FOR 350LBS. THIS WAY NO ONE CAN STEAL MY STASH, AS I AM MY STASH, JUST ADD WATER ......

IF YOU DON'T EAT IT, THEY WILL TAKE IT.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 22:30
Actually remind your relatives this is not the time to diet.


HOW ABOUT PACKING ON ALL THE WEIGHT YOU CAN BEFORE IT'S TOOO LATE. i'M GOING FOR THE SPHRICAL LOOK...YOU KNOW, ROUND. I'M 5'6'' 155LBS...SHOOTING FOR 350LBS. THIS WAY NO ONE CAN STEAL MY STASH, AS I AM MY STASH, JUST ADD WATER ......

IF YOU DON'T EAT IT, THEY WILL TAKE IT.

cugir321
15th November 2008, 22:56
Here it is...go for it! You'll be reading for hours...everything you need.

http://survivalacres.com/information/prudentfoodstoragefaq.pdf

If the SHTF...run to your computer and hit print!

Burticus
16th November 2008, 00:07
Thank you everyone for the additional ejumucation and sources. Since most of us already have silver (though never enough), lead, food and water are the remaining priorities for perilous times. I checked out the LDS (Latter Day Saints/Mormon) web sites for storing food. You can get lost in there for days. They are deadly serious and have it all figgered out. Some former members complain about getting checked by their food gestapo. They do not have brown rice on their list of standard provisions (because of the oil in it, as mentioned above) and have a section on how cooking oils can go rancid. They link to many web sites selling storable/emergency food. Storage factors are Humidity Air Light Temperature (HART), the lower the better. Freeze dried food is better than just dehydrated and can last 30 years, but is costly. Most recommended annual food supplies include a very large amount (buckets) of wheat, but you must grind it and I'm not sure how you're supposed to bake bread without electricity or wood-burning oven... As stated, I checked survivalist blogs, shopped around and found good prices on mylar bags, oxygen absorbers and dessicants at Sorbent Systems. Based on advice, I will go to the nearby WalFart to check on cheapo food grade buckets. For water purification in the field, the British Berkfield "Big Berky" is a gravity fed metal unit that can purify 30 gallons of lake/creek water a day; cost is about 250 FRNs. Cheapo way is to pour water through a one micron filter bag to remove particulates (harboring parasites and bacteria), then put bleach in the water container. Please contact me if anyone needs consultation on lead, appropriate lead-delivery equipment and where to go for best prices.

My Pants Are Cold
16th November 2008, 02:24
I don't mean to be a pita here, but, what makes you think the land will stop producing food? You folks are wasting a lot of $ on this "survival" crap. Buy the metal(Au,Ag,Pb) now, and trade for food if shtf. It's MUCH more cost effective and easier to store. Food for thought so to speak.

fansubs_ca
16th November 2008, 04:25
I don't mean to be a pita here, but, what makes you think the land will stop producing food? You folks are wasting a lot of $ on this "survival" crap. Buy the metal(Au,Ag,Pb) now, and trade for food if shtf. It's MUCH more cost effective and easier to store. Food for thought so to speak.

Quite simply nobody believes that food will stop growing but it doesn't take
much to disrupt the running of all these trucks we need to move it around
for example. So yeah there is plenty off food, just that doesn't help you
much if it isn't where you are. Also most crops are all harvested around
the same time in any given area so it may not be the middle of harvest time
when the trucks running in from the places where it is don't get through.

Ultimately society will recover from whatever disruptions happen but it can
take time and that can be more time than I'd want to wait with nothing to
eat. My preparations are a bit more modest with primarily canned goods
that I rotate on a regular basis but I like knowing that I have something
to eat untill things get back to normal. Ultimately this has no real cost.

The market will take time to sort out delivery of goods and how to pay
for them, so mid-crisis there may not be food to buy at any price for any
type of payment. The precious metals are to store wealth until normalcy
returns so we have our savings intact _after_ the crisis.

Ultimetly during a crisis anyone that does have any extra food to share
is going to decide who gets the limited amount they can spare on the
basis of who can do something usefull for them either then, later, or has
in the past or simply who they like better rather than who offers to trade
them a piece of rare metal. It's rare that someone will starve their family
(well, unless they didn't like their family to begin with ^_-) or friends to
feed someone who happens to have gold.

The more people who can withstand a little interuption to the ability to
buy food the less panic there will be and the better off everyone else
will be, less competition for what _is_ available.

cugir321
16th November 2008, 09:43
Good post.

If you can sit back and think clearly when everyone is panicking you get something better then gold...fearless. How's silver going to help you if there's no food on the shelves. I guess you could go store to store saying...I've got silver.

hiyosilver
16th November 2008, 15:19
Good post.

when everyone is panicking you get something better then gold.


At this point in time, don't you think they will be breaking down your doors to get at the food you obviously have? Do you think your few bullets will stop a mob? The more aggressive you are to protect your stash, the more determined they will be to get it. I'm not saying to not stock for yourself, but you must consider the other factors too. I can smell pinto beans cooking a mile away, even when I'm not hungry...alot of people won't care if they have to kill you to feed their babies.

Diving Goose
16th November 2008, 15:31
At this point in time, don't you think they will be breaking down your doors to get at the food you obviously have? Do you think your few bullets will stop a mob? The more aggressive you are to protect your stash, the more determined they will be to get it. I'm not saying to not stock for yourself, but you must consider the other factors too. I can smell pinto beans cooking a mile away, even when I'm not hungry...alot of people won't care if they have to kill you to feed their babies.

All i can say about that is " I'm grateful to be living in Canada ";)

hiyosilver
16th November 2008, 15:47
All i can say about that is " I'm grateful to be living in Canada ";)


People also will be flocking to areas where there is wildlife and better conditions. Moving "cities" of people. Likely destroying everything in their path.

Another thing to consider: Thirst has a far more desperate drive to it than hunger.

cugir321
16th November 2008, 17:40
yes you could, I'd still use some absorbers...but at the price of a mylar bag, it's not worth it. Mylar protects against moisture, light, smell, air. It's what the military uses for mre's.
Plus if you've got a non-food safe bucket, some folks say it protects against the chemicals. Plastic doesn't protect against air well. They say it seaps through the bag aventually. So does tupperware. Mylar also protects against nutritional degradation. If you're eating it in a couple years it would probably be fine. Small bags are good. Does make sense when you open the bucket to eat it. I just bought some quart mason jars for the peas, black eyes, etc...stuff I'm not storing a lot of. Clean 'em, put in a 500cc absorber, fill it, seal it. Check the bubble on the metal lid the next day. If it's sucked down your good. I'm going to run a small battery powered walmart fan I bought for 5.00 in a sealed 5 gallon bucket with desiccant for a few days. Take out the desiccant. (plastic wrap over mouth, tied around edge, lid snug but not seated) Then throw in the absorbers and full seal it. I was reading it makes the desiccant work overtime and pulls out any extra moisture especially if your in a humid environment. Extra protection for super long term storage. I've even thought of trying to put the whole bucket in a sealed mylar with another absorber. Will try it soon.


Couldn't you seal a large enough plastic bag to a tapered end and then use one of those vacuum sealers to suck the air out then seal it? Then put the whole thing in your plastic bucket? Or just seal smaller portions in smaller bags to put in your bucket. That way you don't expose the whole supply to air when you open it.

hiyosilver
16th November 2008, 23:57
It still seems to me that rolls of mylar material for the small food vacuum sealers would be ideal. The bag would be just the size you need, so minimal waste...I doubt if anybody sells that though because they make a mint off of selling individual bags of a set size. You could still use your oxygen absorbers if you want, but if vacuum sealed, I don't think they would be necessary with many things. At least that's what some sites say. If nobody is marketing it, it would likely be a profitable opportunity...

fansubs_ca
17th November 2008, 01:45
At this point in time, don't you think they will be breaking down your doors to get at the food you obviously have? Do you think your few bullets will stop a mob? .

The more people who are prepared the fewer who are in that mob, this is
what I mean by panic. Those who don't prepare are going to cause problems
for those who do. It's unfortunate that there is nothing that can be done
about this problem pre-emptively.


All i can say about that is " I'm grateful to be living in Canada ";)

Except we have an additional challenge, we need a steady supply of some
kind of energy to keep from freezing to death in the colder months. :(

cugir321
17th November 2008, 07:42
We still have a solution for a short time at least....hopefully it stays around. Guns and ammo. Sorry about Canada's lousy gun policies. Solves the problem of aggressive panicers.



The more people who are prepared the fewer who are in that mob, this is
what I mean by panic. Those who don't prepare are going to cause problems
for those who do. It's unfortunate that there is nothing that can be done
about this problem pre-emptively.



Except we have an additional challenge, we need a steady supply of some
kind of energy to keep from freezing to death in the colder months. :(

mick silver
18th November 2008, 23:12
cheap med http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/page/605990

cugir321
18th November 2008, 23:20
I have a good 3 story roof top location. My building won't burn easy. Concrete. You gotta die sometime.


At this point in time, don't you think they will be breaking down your doors to get at the food you obviously have? Do you think your few bullets will stop a mob? The more aggressive you are to protect your stash, the more determined they will be to get it. I'm not saying to not stock for yourself, but you must consider the other factors too. I can smell pinto beans cooking a mile away, even when I'm not hungry...alot of people won't care if they have to kill you to feed their babies.

cugir321
18th November 2008, 23:23
I'll try some and get back to you. You wont need it for the pets.


cheap med http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/page/605990

LETMYSILVERGO
18th November 2008, 23:26
What U Gonna Do When W. Sends A Laser Smart Bomb To Your Hid Out??? Just Joking

mick silver
18th November 2008, 23:29
it the same as your doc give you , all you do is call an pay for it have order 3 diff types of anti , try the stuff for fish it works better , we use the med are selfs , plus the cost is way the less the cost you would pay at the drug store , i get the 100 size bottles an put them in ref for keeping

valerb
19th November 2008, 02:31
cheap med http://www.agri-med.com/site/255063/page/605990

I bought a wide variety from these people several years ago and the pills inside are marked the same as what you get from your local pharmacy. I actually bought them for my dogs, just in case THSF. You know that in an emergency situation and a shortage of meds, Vets will be on the bottom of the list to get re-supplied.
Thanks for the reminder, it's time to get some more.