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main1event
13th November 2008, 10:03
I'm biting my nails here, I know what a plummet in Silver from here will mean. If silver and gold go onto new lows we are probably talking about a depression next year. We are talking shortages of food and other basic necessities. After all mines will be completely shut down if commodities get further compressed at these levels.

If Silver breaks down from here, I'm going to go through my home and see what things I can sell. I'm going to stock up on as much food as I can for whats coming.

I'm still hopeful but thats what we are talking about here.

I am fully invested on the long side now, but with some very short stops.

skijake
13th November 2008, 10:39
I'm biting my nails here, I know what a plummet in Silver from here will mean. If silver and gold go onto new lows we are probably talking about a depression next year. We are talking shortages of food and other basic necessities. After all mines will be completely shut down if commodities get further compressed at these levels.

If Silver breaks down from here, I'm going to go through my home and see what things I can sell. I'm going to stock up on as much food as I can for whats coming.

I'm still hopeful but thats what we are talking about here.

I am fully invested on the long side now, but with some very short stops.
There you go,looking out into the future again. And again your right.

It's crazy to think we are just THIS close to severe, over the top problems like you have just laid out. I am always suprised/amazed how this stuff plays out and the time it takes to actually take effect. I am most nervous about waking up one morning and realizing I didn't take all the precautions that I knew I really did need to take and times up.:(

main1event
13th November 2008, 10:48
Its like Dominoes, when the first domino falls the last one is probably going to go too. Its not looking into the future, just like you know the sun will set at the end of the day, everything has an order. When you dont have supplies of basic materials, production of fertilizer cant be produced. If farmers cant produce their crops at a profitable level for a certain amount of time they stop growing for the masses.

As I write this Silver and Gold are pulling back again. I'm going to be listing my stuff on ebay today. Forget cash or silver, you cant eat it. I'm preparing for a devaluation of our cash but I want to eat too.

skijake
13th November 2008, 10:58
As I write this Silver and Gold are pulling back again. I'm going to be listing my stuff on ebay today. Forget cash or silver, you cant eat it. I'm preparing for a devaluation of our cash but I want to eat too.

USD is so strong at this moment that it is very tempting to go on a buying spree. Spend it before it is devalued and yet you have to have some in Reserve. Ummh, so many choices, so few Right ones!:rolleyes:

ballininthamix
13th November 2008, 11:43
If mines start shutting down, how can PM's possibly continue to plummet? Is there a point where manipulation is no longer possible and spot actually IS? Or is it safe to disregard SLV and GLD from here on out and go with real markets?

What's going on? I don't see how PM's can continue to stay down given all the other factors. What am I missing?

ballininthamix
13th November 2008, 11:46
All that being said, if SHTF there may not be food available for any price, so make sure you've got some. How much is debateable. A clean water supply is also a good idea.

krispy
13th November 2008, 11:59
Yes buy things you need. Spend the cash now, on things that benefit you long term.

I've been spending my free cash on home improvements to reduce energy bills. I'm also looking into a big solar system investment. for some 5k, I could be off the grid! get it now while the money still works. Course, I live in Canada, so whatever happens statside will take time to affect us.

Actually, our economy in Alberta here is still crazy.. slowing, yes, but still incredibly strong given the circumstances.

I remaion strongly of the opinion that long term investments on my livelyhood are the best, regardless of the outcome.

main1event
13th November 2008, 12:08
To answer your question, "How can mining shares keep falling?" Well its pretty easy, if you dont have any revenues, then you arent making money. Your shares could be worth .10. Potentially a company could trade at cash value - debts. If a company has more debt than cash we could be talking bankruptcy. Its not rocket science.

That being said PAAS turned out a profit in this mess, but even at this level its hit or miss. When this turns I'd be a big buyer of PAAS. However, it too could fall substantially especially if Silver falls below this level.

We live in some pretty scary times, I'm more scared now than at anytime I can ever remember. Even during the 2000 stock market crash i was still pretty optimistic. There were many stocks doing well, like biotechs. In this case everything appears to be falling, nothing is being spared, there is no hiding.

mick silver
13th November 2008, 12:11
If you have cash why not store up some food , it just going to get a lot higher , silver you can buy more as the price drop , right now we have close to a year of dry food stored up , we just replace what we use now , it cheaper that way , an buy stuff for the bathroom also paper , soap women stuff , hair care stuff , tooth paste ,

Diving Goose
13th November 2008, 12:14
I was just in Alberta working at Suncor / Voyageur Project.....I'ts been put on hold for a min of 1 year and 60 crane operators have been laid off including me. I'm not saying that things are going to crap but at least for now things will be touch and go with the price of oil being so low. I will be back over there after christmas, hopefully to do some maintenence work at CNRL or scrounge up some work out of Edmonton. :roll:

mick silver
13th November 2008, 12:21
Just listen , The talking heads on tv are telling it going to get a lot harder now , everday they are telling you now , just what have they been wating for , most people already know this , just go and talk with a older people that has live though hard times , we maybe in for a ride of our lives , Food price maybe going up next year 10 to 20 % that alone should scare the crap out of you

krispy
13th November 2008, 12:21
I guess Im not as concerned with a total collapse. Although, last shopping trip, I did get extra everything, so its starting to sink in. even bought some non perishable food items, which I hate. You guys should investigate alternative energy sources. I like the "energetic forum". lots of options from real people who successful create their own energy. just add patience and willpower.

offgrid
13th November 2008, 12:59
hey krispy,
if your around the edmonton area,
we have an excellent source for solar etc.
we've been offgrid for about 3 years now.

mick silver
13th November 2008, 13:00
offgrid do you have any links for stuff you are using

main1event
13th November 2008, 13:08
I never thought of Canada as a Sunny place to live.

mark2112gum
13th November 2008, 13:19
USD is so strong at this moment that it is very tempting to go on a buying spree. Spend it before it is devalued and yet you have to have some in Reserve. Ummh, so many choices, so few Right ones!:rolleyes:

Good Point, this devaluation may come sooner then you think too. The G 20 are meeting this week end in whats being called 'Bretton Woods II'. This could be bad for the US$. Regarding your original point of the 'buying spree', buy can goods, and dried items ie, noodles, and corned beef (which is very good). Fill the cupboard. If there is a financial situation, your set. if there's not, then you don't need to go shopping for a year... (its a win-win)

mark2112gum
13th November 2008, 13:21
I never thought of Canada as a Sunny place to live.

Its not a real sunny place, but they have the best banking system in the world.

prahudka
13th November 2008, 13:56
I guess Im not as concerned with a total collapse. Although, last shopping trip, I did get extra everything, so its starting to sink in. even bought some non perishable food items, which I hate. You guys should investigate alternative energy sources. I like the "energetic forum". lots of options from real people who successful create their own energy. just add patience and willpower.

My lovely wife, the coupon queen, is stocking, stocking, stocking the bomb shelter. Extra chicken feed. New wood stove. Extra TP!!!!!!! A shovel to dig a new latrine. Remember what they used to say about a warm place to $%^&?

Food, food.

Buying lots of extra too. My neighbors are going to need it. If you know what you are doing, you can hoard a ton of chicken soup for about 20c a can.

offgrid
13th November 2008, 14:12
sunny alberta - we average 5.5 hrs/day (same as fort worth,tx - fresno,ca)
for the first year we lived of only 400 watts of solar (had to charge the batteries about 7 times w/genset)
we have since added another 200 watts and a wind turbine (for our led growlights etc.)
but for the $5k krispy was talking about, you could easily survive
the panels are ground mounted on a frame we had welded locally, so we can manually track (25% power increase for $150)
batteries are gnb nct-9 (telecom batteries-should get 3x the life compared to trojans etc., worth the extra cash)
http://industrialenergy.exide.com/products/range_select.asp?range=NCT&sub_id=40&cl=np_brands&lng=en
mx-60 charge controller (pricey but mppt, not critical for the extra cost)
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/charge_controllers/flexmax/
and a used xantrex 1500 watt pure sine inverter (again for the extra cash pure sine not critical, except for very sensitive equip (printers etc.))

krispy
13th November 2008, 16:18
yea offgrid, I live in edmonton.

those links you provided? they are in town?

I was going to start calling today actually for a quote. My power bill is usually under 300kwh /month....thats living what I consider "very comfortable." I could pear that down if I needed to. Trick is im in town...big spurce tree in the back too..may cut down a bit..I like the manually tracking idea tho'....I'll look into those links you provided.

Thanks man,

offgrid
13th November 2008, 16:57
no,those are company links.
we talked to all the dealers around edmonton, before deciding on this guy.
only one who actually listened to what we wanted to do.
really knows his stuff and also the cheapest price wise.
http://solarpanel.ca/


another option you may consider, being in the city, trees etc.
get a really decent battery bank - inverter - a good 3 stage charger - and a generator
if you have a garage, the best is a propane genset and a bunch of hundred pound tanks
if not then jerry cans and some pri-g (not stabil)
chances are your fridge, stove/oven, and freezer are your biggest energy hogs
if you own your house, ever consider selling and retiring to your parents farm?

cugir321
13th November 2008, 18:55
Food....you better buy the neccessities to store your food NOW!!! I spent all day lookng for mylar bags and oxygen absorbers...the absorbers are getting as rare as silver. You need them for a 5 or 6 gallon bucket. Can use dry ice to deplete air but it's a pain in the butt. If you dilly dally...you're gonna be eating grass if the worst happens. 250.00 bucks a person in food and you can relax and enjoy the show.

I'm in the protection business...import stuff. We did a months sales in the last 3 days. These guys already have their silver....they're buying guns, rice, wheat, beans, and everything to store up food.

did everyone appreciate that speak by George today....he said wall street was manipulating the market. God bless him! I just sent a letter to my Senator last night saying our government is breaking the law (I included Teddy's Manip link)...stop the manipulation, it's criminal!

krispy
14th November 2008, 01:08
thanks Offgrid, those systems look real nice. Im surprised how small the panel is. I thought I would have to cover my roof! the setups appear to cost well over 10k on the website, but, you mentioned I could get adecent setup for 5k huh - ill give this guy a call.

My parents farm is a great fall back option...while I'm very close to owning my house outright, im just getting to be 30 so retirement is a ways off! but certainly, if the time to scoop up all the food/goods I could carry came around...thats my best option

I'm thinking of the ease of relocating a system like this out to the farm if need be. shouldn be e big problem, just some muscle for those batteries!

Thanks for the data!

fansubs_ca
14th November 2008, 04:02
I never thought of Canada as a Sunny place to live.

One reason I like wind power better than solar, in Winnipeg it can cloud over
for an awfully long time but rarely is there a day that doesn't blow. ;)

But seriously we _do_ seem to get more consistant wind than sunlight.

One thing I'm wondering regarding Canadians who use solar, how do you
deal with snow covering the panels? Just going out and manually clearing
them off doesn't seem sufficient becuase my experience with my sidewalks
and roof frequently are as soon as I can finally get them all cleared it
snows again. So unless you make a full time job out of brushing snow
off the panels it seems like you wouldn't get much power during the
months when it's most critically important, not good if you have to get
other things done.

Also I get the impression you get more power per dollar of capital
investment on wind compared to solar at least with current technology.

main1event
14th November 2008, 07:21
Its the same here in the northeast, wind is much better than solar.

cugir321
14th November 2008, 07:58
The thing I don't like about canned food is that there's a ton of salt in it and most canned stuff only last a couple years. The longest canned food I've found is Sardines. I just bought some yesterday...They expire in 2013. That's very good for a protein product... has 20 grams...which is about enough for a daily protein ration. They have a lot of good stuff in them...not much mercury due to their size. I don't love them but I'll learn to if I'm hungry. A couple ounces of wheat grass juice, a handful of rice, a little pintos and a half can of sardines/day, I believe will sustain life forever. The pintos have quite a bit of protein. you may get tired of the food after a bit but I bet your neighbors will be tired of the nagging hunger in their bellys. I'll take bored over hungry. A tray of hard winter wheat grass (about 18" x 24") is about 12 ounces of juice. It can be grown in your house with very low light. You can chew the grass if you don't have a juicer or squeezer. Don't swallow the pulp. It doesn't digest well. It's known as the perfect food. (wheat grass grown until the second shoot starts..about 7 days...nutrients fall after second shoot appears) You could probably live a year on it without anything. Has protein and carbs, aminos, vitamins and such.


My lovely wife, the coupon queen, is stocking, stocking, stocking the bomb shelter. Extra chicken feed. New wood stove. Extra TP!!!!!!! A shovel to dig a new latrine. Remember what they used to say about a warm place to $%^&?

Food, food.

Buying lots of extra too. My neighbors are going to need it. If you know what you are doing, you can hoard a ton of chicken soup for about 20c a can.

cugir321
14th November 2008, 08:10
i live in florida so sunshine isn't a problem. Those little 12v jumper boxes with a 12 volt adapter plug are great for running an inverter...you can charge them from your car. you could use solar easily to charge it. Even with 5 hours a day sunlight. I have a 700 watt inverter. It runs a small lamp with a 10 watt usage (puts out 25-40 watts of light which lights a bedroom adaquetly) energy florescent bulb for 4 or 5 (probably longer) days considering you use it only 3-4 hours at night. Get one with a 12 to 18 amp hour battery...will last longer. There's a reason they used to go to bed early 200 years ago....saved candles.



sunny alberta - we average 5.5 hrs/day (same as fort worth,tx - fresno,ca)
for the first year we lived of only 400 watts of solar (had to charge the batteries about 7 times w/genset)
we have since added another 200 watts and a wind turbine (for our led growlights etc.)
but for the $5k krispy was talking about, you could easily survive
the panels are ground mounted on a frame we had welded locally, so we can manually track (25% power increase for $150)
batteries are gnb nct-9 (telecom batteries-should get 3x the life compared to trojans etc., worth the extra cash)
http://industrialenergy.exide.com/products/range_select.asp?range=NCT&sub_id=40&cl=np_brands&lng=en
mx-60 charge controller (pricey but mppt, not critical for the extra cost)
http://www.outbackpower.com/products/charge_controllers/flexmax/
and a used xantrex 1500 watt pure sine inverter (again for the extra cash pure sine not critical, except for very sensitive equip (printers etc.))