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View Full Version : Presidential Change May Spur Attack, Chertoff Says (Update1)



mick silver
22nd October 2008, 16:13
Oct. 22 (Bloomberg) -- Terrorists may see the change to a new U.S. presidency during the next six months as a prime chance to attack, no matter who wins the White House, Homeland Security Secretary Michael Chertoff said.

``Any period of transition creates a greater vulnerability, meaning there's more likelihood of distraction,'' Chertoff said in an interview yesterday. ``You have to be concerned it will create an operational opportunity for terrorists.''

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=a7MuiagBPMz4&refer=home

mick silver
22nd October 2008, 16:15
Hell we may be seeing a new game about to start , This is just away to stay in power. Look like we may have a KING before long

garydrumm
22nd October 2008, 18:25
Hell we may be seeing a new game about to start , This is just away to stay in power. Look like we may have a KING before long

Let's hope so. I, for one, am tired of that whole "doing it on your own, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, rugged individuality" thing. I think we need to get back to our places as peasant underlings to the Aristocracy. A return to the good old days of the Feudal system, when we commoners knew our lot in life and just accepted it. Enough of this thinking for myself crap!

nuslvrkwen
22nd October 2008, 18:33
Attack from WHOM? It's great they are so paranoid. We didn't have a change of power terrorist attack until 9/11. I'm convinced that was because the outside world didn't WANT Bush!

NOW they're freaking out cause we're getting rid of him. I wonder what they would do if we hauled his butt off to jail at the end of his term? Maybe the terrorist 'challenge' (9/11) was funded by the gov'mint in the first place? All this and more to grow business!!

Trvlr45
23rd October 2008, 00:48
The reason we had a terrorist attack to begin with is because of the idiocy of globalism and multi-culturalism. If Bill Clinton had listened to the Army (Operation Able Danger) and the FBI instead of letting Jamie Gorelic block the intel we wouldn't have been attacked to begin with. But political correctness was more important.

George Bush continued the mass invasion and open border policy of Clinton which just made it easier for them to pull it off. The only terrorist attack we have to worry about are the terrorists that have been flooding across our open border for the last 16 years or in Clinton's case the rubber stamping of anyone and everyone as a legal citizen.

Our government let them in and we wouldn't have to worry about it if they enforced our immigration laws and gaurded our borders like they are supposed to be doing but they seem to be more worried about entitlements and free houses for the invaders.

Trvlr45
23rd October 2008, 00:51
The terrorists won't need to attack us if Obama wins. He'll do everything they want. He's a bigger threat than they are.

mick silver
23rd October 2008, 00:55
If war start is obama the man we want to be in office , i think not

pbmaxb
23rd October 2008, 01:12
if war start it will probally be here on our turf and wes be fightin each other because mccain won it.

mick silver
23rd October 2008, 01:14
hell there well be fighting no matter who wins

Gino
23rd October 2008, 02:49
Hahaha! Very funny. You guys haven't stopped fighting wars since WWII. What the hell difference is another president going to make? There's nothing more certain than the USA continuing its beligerent war-mongering.

It will be an absolute miracle if the world can get out of this financial mess without an outbreak of violence. So far, so good, but when it blows, who do you think will be right in the middle of it?

Geez, even when you don't have an enemy, you have to make one up. Homeland, Fatherland, Motherland. Its all just so much nationalist BS to manipulate the emotional heartstings of the populace. The manipulation is so sever that you've got a "Threat-O-Meter" that they amp up to pull things into line.

http://www.dhs.gov/threat_level/current_new.gif

Getting rid of that thing has got to be a first step to freedom.

I for one am hoping for a peaceful transition from Bush to the next guy. There's only 11 days to go to the election, but then you have to make it to the swearing in. I sure hope you all can get there peacefully.

As for afterwards, who knows. Without dismantling the edifice built up by George Jr. I doubt anything much will change. In fact, if the political will is to build upon his legacy, you guys are in for some dark days ahead.

Kelly
23rd October 2008, 04:45
Hahaha! Very funny. You guys haven't stopped fighting wars since WWII. What the hell difference is another president going to make? There's nothing more certain than the USA continuing its beligerent war-mongering.

Gino, exactly what do you mean "you guys?" For your information NOBODY on this forum from America elected Michael Chertoff; his is despised in this country. In fact, the American people did not even elect the asshole that appointed him! Bush did NOT win the popular vote in the last election! Remember?

It wasn't the American people who faked the Gulf of Tonkin. It wasn't the American people who let 9-11 happen. No Americans voted for these wars. We aren't the "guys" who made it happen. The American people have been lied to for generations about these things. The people who are resonsible for these atrocities are the individuals in the Government who back the New World Order Agenda, and that vile plan was NOT born in America; it was born in Europe. Read a little history!

It's not the people who get us into these wars. It's the bankers. We've had to borrow money from them for every single war they have pushed us into. The bankers profit, not the people. These freaking bankers are here because Rothschild and company would NOT let America be free.

Please don't put the American people in the same category as the dictators who are running this country. You can hate the diabolical assholes who are running this country; I have no problem with that.

But when you start lumping "we the people" in with the pricks that have lied and stolen from the American people since day one, I'm going to take exception to it.

I never voted for a single freaking war and no other Amerian on this forum voted for those wars either. We weren't asked.

Gino
23rd October 2008, 08:54
Hey Kelly, that’s an interesting response. I’ll explain myself for a little greater clarity.

As an outside observer I saw the use of “we” in this thread, underpinning the concept of separation. Of those individuals who identify with the USA from those who don’t. It’s the old us and them thing. I wondered, “is this not the mentality that has given the world ‘fortress America’ and the paranoia that is eroding our collective freedoms?”

Anyway, it is in this context that I, not identifying myself with the USA, have used “you guys”. That is, I not being one of “we”.

I am certainly not denigrating or insulting the American people or the individuals contributing to or reading this thread and am a little disappointed you should think so. Although I thought there might be a defensive response to the confronting position I expressed.

I shouldn’t, however, let you off the hook for instructing me and implying my ideals should conform to your approval. But, I note the aggression in your response and claim of victim status, and wonder if in themselves these are not symptomatic of feeling besieged and threatened?

So like I said, and as much as I wish it weren’t so, you guys will continue fighting wars, particularly while ever you maintain this quasi-Nazi “Homeland” mindset.

Now just remember that Australians fight alongside the USA in every damn war you fight. And “we” certainly didn’t vote for your arsehole, but “we” still get dumped on. And you think you have it bad! :)
_______________________
Here’s a couple of interesting quotes I picked up looking for something to underline my thinking. Not sure they do the trick, but I still found them interesting enough to share.

"Being ‘antisocial’ has become the cardinal sin in our society. We have to again go back to characteristics of ours which made us, as individuals, say that what is right is right, and whether or not it is antisocial, makes no difference."
- Edward Hunter, American expert on communist brainwashing, warning the Committee on Un-American Activities in 1958

"...there was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, 'and this will always be the man in the street.' Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology...Hatred and contempt must be directed at particular individuals."
- H. Trevor-Roper, The Goebbels Diaries

dontnojack
23rd October 2008, 09:11
[QUOTE="...there was no point in seeking to convert the intellectuals. For intellectuals would never be converted and would anyway always yield to the stronger, 'and this will always be the man in the street.' Arguments must therefore be crude, clear and forcible, and appeal to emotions and instincts, not the intellect. Truth was unimportant and entirely subordinate to tactics and psychology...Hatred and contempt must be directed at particular individuals."
- H. Trevor-Roper, The Goebbels Diaries[/QUOTE]


The Goebbles Diaries, or modern democrat party playbook....oh, never mind, theres no difference.

Android
23rd October 2008, 09:47
The terrorists won't need to attack us if Obama wins. He'll do everything they want. He's a bigger threat than they are.


Amen. You finally hit the nail on the head.

Psalms 12:28: "And the Sheeple shall believe in the Chosen One, whom has No Clue".

Kelly
23rd October 2008, 10:04
I shouldn’t, however, let you off the hook for instructing me and implying my ideals should conform to your approval. But, I note the aggression in your response and claim of victim status, and wonder if in themselves these are not symptomatic of feeling besieged and threatened?

Oh get of your high horse, Gino! The American people ARE beseiged and threatened! The American people stood up and said "NO" to this damn bailout, and congress got strong armed into passing it anyway, under threat, no less, that if they didn't, martial law would be declared.

We, our children and our childrens' children will be the victims of a bailout to the wealthy elitists for generations to come.

You are damn right people here are beginning to feel like victims. Most Americans didn't even have a clue that the bankers were pulling their derivatives scam, which now threatens the entire world economically. That's because they go behind our backs and do things in secret.

Gino, how in the hell do you expect Americans to react when you say things like...


Hahaha! Very funny. You guys haven't stopped fighting wars since WWII. What the hell difference is another president going to make? There's nothing more certain than the USA continuing its beligerent war-mongering.

The PEOPLE in this country are not doing these things. This country is under seige by a fascist governing power that has lied to us and reduced the power of the people to zilch. There is no such thing as constitutional law in America anymore. And anybody who has researched the history of America knows it is the Federal Reserve bankers who are pulling the strings, and they have been since day one.

The Federal Reserve Bank certainly didn't start out "American." They started out European aristocracy determined to bring America and her constitution to her knees.

Well guess what, Gino? They are bringing America to its knees and you are laughing about it. And then when somebody stands up and says "cut it out" you accuse them of being "aggressive." I guess if you are American today, you can't win for loosing. If you don't stand up and say a damn word, you get accused of being a "mindless sheeple." But those who do stand up get accused of being "too aggressive."

Just exactly what do you think Americans should do? Genuflect to the European Union? Scrape and bow while you laugh at this countries demise? Does it make you feel good to point your finger and blame the PEOPLE for something they had no part in?

Sorry Gino, but when I read your posts I get the distinct feeling that you will be cheering when the American people start to starve.

thetackle
23rd October 2008, 10:11
I honestly can't even give a **** who wins. I am more interested in the economy than these 2 anyway. They will both lead us down their own road, but both in the wrong direction. Neither one will stop and turn around. Perot got over 20 million votes and Ron Paul could rival that as a 3rd party candidate. The problem is a 3rd party always wants to start at the Presidential Office. Until a grassroots 3rd party starts in local, state, and then federal elections, they don't stand a chance. You have to build the platform first before you can stand on it. My biggest hope is that this crisis leads us to a 3rd, 4th, and even 5th party. Right now it is good that one candidate is old and the other is African American, or I wouldn't be able to tell them apart.

fredrock
23rd October 2008, 10:41
Oh get of your high horse, Gino!

The PEOPLE in this country are not doing these things.

Kelly, with all due respect, I think you are letting the American people off way to easily.

When our politicians send American soldiers over seas to fight wars of aggression after filling the publics head with nationalistic pride and all kinds of flag waving propaganda about spreading democracy abroad, and "we" American's continue to empower these same politicians year after year, then yes, sadly, the "people of America" are doing these things.

Regrettably, Fred

Kelly
23rd October 2008, 12:15
Fredrock, presently there are only 1.4 million active-duty uniformed personnel currently serving in the four military branches of the U.S. Department of Defense. That's about one person out of every 215 Americans. The vast majority of people in America do not support the war in Iraq and have made their sentiments very clear to Washington DC.

There is really only one way to effectively stop supporting the politicians, the military, the banksters and Wall Street. 65 million Americans have already made this decision. And after this bailout nightmare, I suspect more and more people today are seriously considering taking this step. For many it is a conscious decision to stop supporting a government that has ceased to obey the will of the people.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W5UcPeSb8kg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PykIBjhEzE

nuslvrkwen
23rd October 2008, 12:39
Kelly & Other US Constitutional Historians PLEASE DO NOT TAKE OFFENSE! Who ever wins this election AIN'T SAVING the country or the world. They are just trying to run the country and deal with our partners & enemies outside our borders. Like those elected before them. None of us voted for any war including the one back in WW11 but ALL of us have had to PUT UP WITH the paranoid and the power hungry no matter who's in charge. We the regular folks have seen money we earned that could have been better spent on our communities and livlihoods that was spent going to war. Despite our protests and public bitching. The war's go on and it's on EVERYBODY's dime! Except those running it, at the top. And THAT's unexceptable.

Since becoming a physical metal investor I've had little patience with nationalist belief. Especially the way things in the marketplace have turned out recently. Individuals will unwittingly support something cause it's familiar not necessarily better. They will perpetuate the power hungry and paranoid. North Korea, Argentina, and any other country taking over the SAVINGS of individuals to pay off loans that country made, and the countries' bad investment mistakes are enemies of people on the street. Countries are being lead by the US to screw their inhabitants! It's the US that's been cheering on the countries willing to buy its' debt AND encouraging other countries to do business the same way it does! Create debt = create $$$.

Those countries who's leadership feel they need to stock up on bullion - a quaint old concept from days of running countries' gone by - THEY are made fun of in the press! And if you look at the country in particular like China and India for example:THEY have questionable credit ratings also! So China buys bullion to back itself up when its' investments turn sour as in the case of buying our debt. India works to keep its' rating together so it can continue to borrow. India has tons of industry and workers working at the lowest wages possible (in order to grow business - yes?) and its' credit rating is bad because it owes so much. Just to keep operational.

One thing investors have to ask themselves is: HAS the business model we use worldwide gotten to a state of such unworkability that we should continue to work with it? We have the bailout here in the US, Europe and Asia. Australia has down graded value on all its' overseas investments. We can all see that the bail out had a price tag that's been basically left in the dust by all the other paper infusion the Treasury and its' 'leadership' have done on top of the bailout! What's all this money supposed to be doing? REASSURING the world this stupid system will continue! Heck, back in 2000/2001 when Bush got into office, and dropped the interest rates to grow business - the first losers were those retiring at that time! Those investors NEVER recovered from that move. At the time our finances weren't at such a bad state we couldn't have grown business using the interest rates we had.

No matter what: MOST of those who are investing are close to needing to use that money. I don't care if you once dreamed deregulation and smaller oversite were the way to financial heaven. IT AIN'T. Now or in the future. If you ARE intellegent - you'll admit you blew it and CHANGE DIRECTION. Work with a better model. By continuing the direction we are all going, not only will we never correct the market so valuation can actually happen on product again. But you are right Kelly; our kids and grandkids really will be on the hook for this run away nightmare all because it looks 'weak'? to change direction. We need to retire this business model. This Administration's people don't agree. They believe they can paper over all the cracks and black holes created by lax oversite and relaxed rules. Laws aren't even in the picture, it's operational rules that can be changed during a weekend meeting that's added to this mess. Officially stopping how we do these trades will put an end to the overall money we have to pay out to fix the problem.

Hey, this time could really BE a time when the individual investor CAN make a killing by avoiding all the traps put out by the banksters and the worlds' governments. All we gotta do is NOT do what the banksters and government leaders do! Don't encourage nationalistic hate mongering, and make an effort to get along with all people in every country. We individuals DON'T NEED government or bank loans to trade amongst ourselves. AND we OUTNUMBER all those trying to take advantage of us.

Kelly
23rd October 2008, 13:08
I don't disagree with a single thing you've said.


One thing investors have to ask themselves is: HAS the business model we use worldwide gotten to a state of such unworkability that we should continue to work with it? We have the bailout here in the US, Europe and Asia. Australia has down graded value on all its' overseas investments.

Of course we need a different worldwide model. However, it is utterly insane to trust the politicians and the bankers who got us into this mess in the first place to come up with a solution that is going to be any more realistic, let alone moral or fair to the people.

The "New Bretton Woods" is about creating a centralized "Global Monetary Authority" that is going to attempt to further consolidate all the power and control into the hands of the wealthy few. The bankers have been working to this end for hundreds of years. We'd be naive indeed to pretend they are going to change their game plan at this stage of the game.

You just wait and see. In the fine print, I will lay you odds that all nations who agree to the New Bretton Woods agreement will find themselves subject to a new "global authority" whose ultimate goal is to destroy national sovereignty. I will also lay you odds that no way out of that agreement will be provided; just like the countries that agreed to join the European Union have no way to change their mind once they have opted in.

This has been in the works for a very long time now.

Nuslverkwen, do you think for a moment that the new President, regardless of who that turns out to be, is going to give you or any other American the right to say "no"? You won't have that option and neither will I.


We individuals DON'T NEED government or bank loans to trade amongst ourselves. AND we OUTNUMBER all those trying to take advantage of us.


How are we going to trade among ourselves when there is no manufacturing base in this country? Our entire food supply is controlled by a handful of global corporations.

It's going to be back to basics and grow your own food and barter with your neighbors or play into the Global Game.

nuslvrkwen
23rd October 2008, 13:55
I know you are talking about large manufacturing and corporate food distribution. You're a self employed person Kelly. When all this comes down to people looking at what they have to do to keep a job or grow a business - thinking smaller and local, manufacturing will explode! Manufacturing of everything will start up all over again. For example: you mentioned in a thread that you use lamp glass in your products. I discovered a FOUNDRY in Oakland one day just walking a different way home from the train! Never knew they were there. They have to have been where they are for some time to put out what they put out. They make mugs and bongs, and what looked like modern milafiori style glassware. They are located in an older building behind another business.

Little independants are going to come into being and grow big just offering services and products they've been trying to offer but have been overshadowed by the way people think about doing business.

We've been wanting to set up a bullion exchange on this forum, I know we can't solicit or sell on this forum - but by now despite what spot price is it's looking like small local minting of bullion would actually stabilize price and the market over all. I think big is not better. It's more expensive and doesn't solve all the problems small manufacturing encounters. All the stuff we are going through is actually showing us opportunity but we have been trained to THINK about business and trade the way we have. Look how long it took the US to convince the western world it was OK to grow debt INSTEAD of money!That's actually a very short time.

That's why I don't trust them for *hit - none of this stuff was EVER in your best interest. Even though these powers are elected by voters it's obvious they get put into power by people the voters can't control. What do you think would happen to a person using the media telling the general public NOT to use credit? Would they be assasinated? You betcha. By whom?

Growing your own food, or bartering for local grown food and barter IS going to be the way to go TO CHANGE the way the corporate world works IF it wants OUR money. At this point we still have money to CHANGE direction ourselves as individuals. Deal with each other one to one. The big guys will HAVE to chase us! Otherwise THEY the big guys will be holding the bag, meaning their actual business structure will have to pay off all the world's bailouts. That's how it's supposed to be! And you know they can't have that.

skijake
23rd October 2008, 15:07
Responsibility and Accountability! Those in charge hide behind the " Law" and use the " Law " to persecute and prosecute any that might stand in their way. We are a country of laws but have become defined by them and those that support this system. The "average" American knows what's right and wrong but has been hood winked by this out of control system and those who work it. We are over legislated and over lawyered. No new lawyers for 10 years and early retirement for 3/4 of the ones we have now. Get this country back on track and abide by the Constitution.:mad:

thetackle
23rd October 2008, 15:22
Responsibility and Accountability! Those in charge hide behind the " Law" and use the " Law " to persecute and prosecute any that might stand in their way. We are a country of laws but have become defined by them and those that support this system. The "average" American knows what's right and wrong but has been hood winked by this out of control system and those who work it. We are over legislated and over lawyered. No new lawyers for 10 years and early retirement for 3/4 of the ones we have now. Get this country back on track and abide by the Constitution.:mad:

I heard once that the difference between America and developing nations was that we were governed by lawyers and they are governed by scientists. You can see where that leads us.

fredrock
23rd October 2008, 16:04
Kelly "There is really only one way to effectively stop supporting the politicians, the military, the banksters and Wall Street."

OK, I supose that is a way, but it is not the only way. If we continue to allow the only voices heard in Washington and the rest of America to be the bought and paid for Republican and Democratic politicians, (With very few exceptions) then we will never have a change.

Fred


"There is another point we learn from these observations: working within the machinery of a political party is a futile path for serious change. Real change comes from working in the world of enterprise and ideas." (Lew Rockwell)

http://www.lewrockwell.com/rockwell/learning-about-the-state.html

Kelly
23rd October 2008, 17:27
Fred, right now today there are several other parties besides the democrats and the republicans. Do you see any of the canidates running in one of the other parties getting any major campaign funding? Do you see them getting any media attention? I don't.

While I appreciate what you are saying, I just don't think it's going to happen until significant changes are made in the way campaigns are funded and the election process is completely overhauled.

And the reason why it's not going to happen is because the deck has been stacked.

JD4x4
23rd October 2008, 17:53
Maybe it's just the people that still talk to me, but I don't think so ...

90ish% of everyone tells me that they don't like either of the two candidates the press are running this election cycle. I tell them they have other choices, and that the only vote wasted is one made for someone you don't agree with just because you agree less with what you think is your only other choice.

But, I'm sure most of them will feel compelled to vote for one, or the other. Insane. Like beating someone semi-conscious because you don't believe in murder.

Gino
24th October 2008, 09:52
Oh get of your high horse, Gino! The American people ARE beseiged and threatened!
. . .
You are damn right people here are beginning to feel like victims.
. . .
Gino, how in the hell do you expect Americans to react when you say things like...
. . .
Well guess what, Gino? They are bringing America to its knees and you are laughing about it. And then when somebody stands up and says "cut it out" you accuse them of being "aggressive." I guess if you are American today, you can't win for loosing. If you don't stand up and say a damn word, you get accused of being a "mindless sheeple." But those who do stand up get accused of being "too aggressive."

Just exactly what do you think Americans should do? . . . Does it make you feel good to point your finger and blame the PEOPLE for something they had no part in?

Sorry Gino, but when I read your posts I get the distinct feeling that you will be cheering when the American people start to starve.

What a great read this thread has become. The juxtaposition of nationalistic reverence and disdain of Government Control gives rise to an emotional minefield.

A point that is perhaps best emphasised, Kelly, by your insulting response to me. Especially after I had gone to the trouble to explain where I was coming from, vis-à-vis concepts of identity and separation.

I was only laughing, Kelly, at the opening discussion about when the war will start, because, as I noted, it has never stopped. My point, if there was one, was simply to observe that the sense of separation from others and identification with the “Homeland” that was being expressed, provides a point of emotional control used by those very same people you identify as running amok with the US constitution. I also asked, “What the hell difference is this next president going to make?”, because, possibly like you but certainly like others, I don’t believe it will make any difference.

You can read what you like into my posts, Kelly. You can think what you like about me and my manner. That’s fine. We all see what we want to see.

But do we freely choose what we want to see? Is it possible to objectively see the landscape of choices when we are all so immersed in a contrived system of control? That was my subject area, Kelly, and I make no apology for the observation that the sooner you (as a state) get rid of this retarded “Homeland” threat level concept, the freer you (as a people) shall be.

Still, I can’t deny feeling disappointed that you could feel I was laughing at the humiliation of the American people and the demise of your community. Or that you could think I’d be laughing if you guys began to starve. I re-read my post and can’t figure what would have given you that idea. Perhaps it’s for a sense of theatre that you have made these statements or because you are under stress and sensitive, it is after all the most stressful time in the post globalisation era. Whatever the case, Kelly, you are terribly mistaken and, as I said, insulting to boot. Although also challenging . . . so not all bad.

I do not have any solutions for the deteriorating “global economy” or prescriptions for what you (the people) should do. I do think that generally, people taking more responsibility for themselves and maintaining a sense of sovereign integrity, is healthy. As is a distrust of people who want to take responsibility for you, remove your personal sovereignty or tell you what to do.

There is always opportunity in adversity and there’s nothing like a crisis of this magnitude to bring fresh perspectives to light. So I posit, ” Are we not all Americans now?” By which I mean, can we discover a balanced ideological path through this period that will recognise the truth that we are now a global, inter-dependent and integrated community and, perhaps, re-establish for all, the rights you (the people) have lost? Can we realise the opportunity of destroying old fear based control constructs and embrace a concept of individual sovereignty? I feel optimistic that a new, positive paradigm will be discovered through this mess. And I reckon gold and silver will be a good vehicle to transport one’s wealth from the old to the new.

Am I betting on it? Certainly, but I am not damn well laughing at those who fall under the bus, Kelly.

Kelly
24th October 2008, 10:24
Lest people forget, this is the statement you made that I took exception to.


Hahaha! Very funny. You guys haven't stopped fighting wars since WWII. What the hell difference is another president going to make? There's nothing more certain than the USA continuing its beligerent war-mongering.

Not everybody in America is a belligerant war monger. These wars are manipulated, and they usually come about only after detestable covert activities by the CIA have failed.

The American people are never informed of the real reasons or the real truth because if they knew the truth, there would be absolutely no support for these wars.

You qualified being a "belligerant war monger" with the term "You guys are" and that seems pretty all-encompassing to me.

Gino
24th October 2008, 18:05
Well like I said, Kelly, you can read what you like into my posts, but that does not make it so. After explaining my position I think it is a bit disingenuous to persist in stating your dislike for what I never intended.

But that's OK. It takes all kinds to make up this world, thank goodness. I don't like being insulted, you don't like feeling wronged. Keep that fire burning, Kelly, but don't burn out. We'd miss you.

Hey, did you see Roubini (on Bloomberg) say, get out of "risky assets, stocks, real estate, commodities and the dollar"? Seems like there's only precious metals left!

Meanwhile in Australia, the federal government is giving first home buyers $21k to buy new homes with. Literally throwing kids into a devaluing market. You gotta love government.

Kelly
24th October 2008, 18:52
Hey Gino, you and I joined this forum at exactly the same time. Most of the time I've not only read your posts, but agreed with them.

However, when you lump all Americans in with "you guys are warmongers" I am going to take exception to that. I grew up in the 60's. I watched most of my best male buddies get drafted and marched off to Viet Nam. And for what? The Gulf of Tonkin? It never happened. It was a false flag terrorist event, and I already know that. Never-the-less I was among those who protested that war, I wrote soldiers becaused I cared what happened to them. I watched one of my best friends come home with his balls blown off by shrapnal. Sadly, he became a drug addict for the rest of his sad, miserable life. He didn't feel like a man any more.

Millions upon millions of Americans have orgnaized and marched against the Iraq war. Many Americans question why our government got into it. Do I think it was wrong? You bet I do. But I also know for a fact that the EU baited Bush, and the EU plays just a big as game of economic warfare as America does. That's been in their game plan since the beginning.

You've got to remember Gino, I am who I am. I was the gal that was dating the international lawyer/banker from France who was setting up the European Union. He walked into my apartment on Monday, July 8th, 1985, a full fourteen months before the Iran/Contra affair ever broke press and said, "We just set up Ollie North. We are going to make your government look like fools."

America plays dirty games, and I will never deny that. My problem with what you have said is that you pretend the EU has not been playing very dirty games too.

Peace, Gino. I do really remember who you are. Just remember when you say "you guys" there are actually Americans here like me, who actually know right from wrong and stand up for what we believe in.

Gino
24th October 2008, 19:37
and who like to have the last word! lol :)

And you just remember, Kelly, there are people like me who don't give two hoots for political correctness, other's definitions of right and wrong, won't be brow beaten into saying balck is white and stand up for what we believe in. Funnily enough, I think you're one of them too.

Kelly
24th October 2008, 19:45
Cheers Gino. That's who I originally thought you were.

cdavport
24th October 2008, 20:02
OK, guys. Let me settle this. If you will permit, let me have the last


Word

There!:rolleyes:

Kelly
24th October 2008, 20:07
Oh nice try cupcake.... :cool: