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What is Truth?
29th November 2010, 18:37
http://www.youtube.com/user/silverfuturist#p/u/43/6R4k9dGIA58

ccjoe
29th November 2010, 19:31
Except for one person here, we all know silver is money and even more so than gold as very few of the 7 billion people on this planet will be able to afford ANY gold, no matter how miniscule.
It may very well take the Chinese to make that obvious point as they have loved silver for thousands of years.

beach miner
29th November 2010, 20:14
Just my Guess. Gold will stay in the Bankers' Vaults. Silver will be worth more than Gold and restricted to Industrial use, like Platinum is mostly in Industry today. Copper will be used in circulation, as in Copper Dollars, Zinc will be used in the rest of the coins. Oh yeah, I forgot the Wooden Nickel with roger's face on it. There is already too much counterfittinig going on with the PM's. I was on ebay checking out what 100 oz bars where going for, there where a few real bars, and hundreds of Silver 999 Mil. bars for sale. These are Copper bars that have a millimeter of Silver on them like a Plating. It will be hard for even the Silver Bugs to know what is real, since theres many size dimensions to these that it will be hard to establish weight to volume. The only things out there with any consistancy is Minted Coins, Maples, ASE's, Phillies etc. All Copper Pennies before 1982 are 95% Copper, except for WWII era. I roughly figured about 150 Pennies to the Pound, and Copper I think is going for about $4.00 a pound. Some SSF Researchers will crunch the real numbers. See Ya At The Top.

Gene Daniels
29th November 2010, 20:18
Considering that the Brits used opium to take China's silver, and that the US badgered them for years to abandon its monetary function and then subjugated them as soon as they did, and considering that the Chinese tend to have a long memory ... I would not be the least surprised to see them use a silver backed currency as a way of screwing the Western powers who have none of it in reserve. Just a thought.

What is Truth?
29th November 2010, 20:38
How would a circulating metal money work? Prior to 1964 a silver dime didn't have a dime's worth of silver in it. As soon as it had more than a dime's worth of silver in it people hoarded them out of circulation. If you do away with face value then the value of the coin would float, but even in this age of computers it would be hard to know how much something was going to cost minute by minute. Especially since silver is an industrial metal its value would change...........even with a stable currency.

jimha
29th November 2010, 22:32
How would a circulating metal money work? Prior to 1964 a silver dime didn't have a dime's worth of silver in it. As soon as it had more than a dime's worth of silver in it people hoarded them out of circulation. If you do away with face value then the value of the coin would float, but even in this age of computers it would be hard to know how much something was going to cost minute by minute. Especially since silver is an industrial metal its value would change...........even with a stable currency.

Agreed. The only way I can see precious metals being currency is as the backup for paper.

billmr
30th November 2010, 02:24
How would a circulating metal money work? Prior to 1964 a silver dime didn't have a dime's worth of silver in it. As soon as it had more than a dime's worth of silver in it people hoarded them out of circulation. If you do away with face value then the value of the coin would float, but even in this age of computers it would be hard to know how much something was going to cost minute by minute. Especially since silver is an industrial metal its value would change...........even with a stable currency.

I think that has been explained pretty well by Hugo Salinas-Price, in fact I think he is getting old and wants to see it happen before he dies, he just may be on the hunt.

billmr
30th November 2010, 02:29
Considering that the Brits used opium to take China's silver, and that the US badgered them for years to abandon its monetary function and then subjugated them as soon as they did, and considering that the Chinese tend to have a long memory ... I would not be the least surprised to see them use a silver backed currency as a way of screwing the Western powers who have none of it in reserve. Just a thought.

but what if you are wrong about the western powers having none in reserve ?

I have heard rumors that there is a silver etf, and that they have lots of silver in london.

tom1000000
30th November 2010, 03:03
How would a circulating metal money work?

That is easy to answer.

The metal money would not be dollars, would not be pounds, would not be yen, would not be yuan, would not be lira, it would be..... OUNCES.

A 1 ounce silver coin, 2 ounce silver coin, 10 ounce silver coin etc etc would never have the hoarding problem you refer to.

The problem I see with circulating metal money is FAKES. I think its not that difficult to make a 1 ounce Kruggerrand coin that is 95% tungsten.

silverheartbone
30th November 2010, 07:30
Considering that the Brits used opium to take China's silver, and that the US badgered them for years to abandon its monetary function and then subjugated them as soon as they did, and considering that the Chinese tend to have a long memory ... I would not be the least surprised to see them use a silver backed currency as a way of screwing the Western powers who have none of it in reserve. Just a thought.
And a very lovely thought, at that.


How would a circulating metal money work? Prior to 1964 a silver dime didn't have a dime's worth of silver in it. As soon as it had more than a dime's worth of silver in it people hoarded them out of circulation. If you do away with face value then the value of the coin would float, but even in this age of computers it would be hard to know how much something was going to cost minute by minute. Especially since silver is an industrial metal its value would change...........even with a stable currency.
You either must not have read or comprehended this article recently posted by the webmaster (http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?22691-Silver-money-for-China).


That is easy to answer.
The metal money would not be dollars, would not be pounds, would not be yen, would not be yuan, would not be lira, it would be..... OUNCES.
A 1 ounce silver coin, 2 ounce silver coin, 10 ounce silver coin etc etc would never have the hoarding problem you refer to.
Ahh, yes! Someone with good comprehension!
You are precisely correct there tom1000000.
Such a simple solution it is too!!!


The problem I see with circulating metal money is FAKES. I think its not that difficult to make a 1 ounce Kruggerrand coin that is 95% tungsten.
That problem can be overcome.
However I really do not see anything other than bank notes actually circulating.
Honest (non-Rothschild, non-European) banks would hold our metal.
If you wanted to hold the metal, it's yours.

What is Truth?
30th November 2010, 11:34
That is easy to answer.

The metal money would not be dollars, would not be pounds, would not be yen, would not be yuan, would not be lira, it would be..... OUNCES.

A 1 ounce silver coin, 2 ounce silver coin, 10 ounce silver coin etc etc would never have the hoarding problem you refer to.



The problem I see with circulating metal money is FAKES. I think its not that difficult to make a 1 ounce Kruggerrand coin that is 95% tungsten.




Yes, I understand that. But as the second half of my quote said, allowing the value of the coin to float would make it difficult to set prices since silver changes in value from minute to minute.

As per fakes, there could be machines that would spot them. Perhaps easier than a fake $100.00 bill.

Rival
30th November 2010, 12:15
To actually move to a silver standard correctly, you abolish the concept of government currencies altogether.

Things become priced in silver oz. including fractional amounts. There is no need to place any other artificial label on it such as cents, dollars, or euros.

" How much for the Nike shoes, sir?"

"Three and one quarter ounces young man."

" How much for a gallon of petrol?"

"One tenth of an ounce, same as yesterday."

In this manner you know exactly what silver is worth without a market ticker telling you, a central banker telling you, a government telling you, or a blogger telling you.

This reduces the role of governments to little more than ensuring that the coins they issue have the correct amount of silver in them.

What is Truth?
30th November 2010, 12:28
To actually move to a silver standard correctly, you abolish the concept of government currencies altogether.

Things become priced in silver oz. including fractional amounts. There is no need to place any other artificial label on it such as cents, dollars, or euros.

" How much for the Nike shoes, sir?"

"Three and one quarter ounces young man."

" How much for a gallon of petrol?"

"One tenth of an ounce, same as yesterday."

In this manner you know exactly what silver is worth without a market ticker telling you, a central banker telling you, a government telling you, or a blogger telling you.

This reduces the role of governments to little more than ensuring that the coins they issue have the correct amount of silver in them.

Thank you for responding and not avoiding the issue in that response. I believe I understand what you are saying. But since silver is also an industrial commodity that changes in value, how would that shop keeper set the price of shoes since silver changes in value so much? I'll grant you that if silver was money it wouldn't change as much as it is today. But still, if a silver mine collapsed, new industrial uses for silver or a major silver discovery wouldn't it effect the value of silver and thus the amount it would buy?

andretti
30th November 2010, 12:38
That is easy to answer.

The metal money would not be dollars, would not be pounds, would not be yen, would not be yuan, would not be lira, it would be..... OUNCES.

A 1 ounce silver coin, 2 ounce silver coin, 10 ounce silver coin etc etc would never have the hoarding problem you refer to.

The problem I see with circulating metal money is FAKES. I think its not that difficult to make a 1 ounce Kruggerrand coin that is 95% tungsten.

It would be pretty easy to identify a fake gold coin. The atomic weight of gold is 196.96 versus 183.86 for tungsten. Gold has a specific gravity of 19.32 and tungsten of 19.25. Precision measuring and weighing devices (which are now available all over the world) make it easy to measure a coin and calculate its exact volume and weight. These devices would immediately detect gold plated tungsten coins in contrast to pure gold coins.

What is Truth?
30th November 2010, 12:41
It would be pretty easy to identify a fake gold coin. The atomic weight of gold is 196.96 versus 183.86 for tungsten. Gold has a specific gravity of 19.32 and tungsten of 19.25. Precision measuring and weighing devices (which are now available all over the world) make it easy to measure a coin and calculate its exact volume and weight. These devices would immediately detect gold plated tungsten coins in contrast to pure gold coins.

Right, I consider fakes to be relatively a none-issue. When gold was money years ago they could have faked coins back then too.

jimha
30th November 2010, 19:22
Some of the arguments on this thread suggesting silver used as an everyday currency on transactions are silly. Everything is now paid for by paper bank transfer. Can you picture someone walking into a car dealership with X hundreds of silver eagles to make a purchase or X thousands eagles to buy a house. How about dropping into your bank every month with silver to make your mortgage payment instead of having an automatic withdrawal for it. As I have previously said paper backed by precious metals is the only way it would work.

oldprole
1st December 2010, 03:33
Can you picture someone walking into a car dealership with X hundreds of silver eagles to make a purchase...

Sure. Some people will/would do that. I might.



...paper backed by precious metals is the only way it would work.

Why would there have to be a binary choice? I'll keep my silver at home and spend it directly, you'll prefer to pay a small fee to the bank for storage and the use of paper notes. Presuming we maintain our digital telecommunications infrastructure, the notes might be unnecessary; debit cards, smart phones, etc. may be all that is required.

ccjoe
1st December 2010, 06:18
Yes, I understand that. But as the second half of my quote said, allowing the value of the coin to float would make it difficult to set prices since silver changes in value from minute to minute.

As per fakes, there could be machines that would spot them. Perhaps easier than a fake $100.00 bill.

I've been doing some RandD for 2 days now with si skyrocketing> did not pull the trigger:(, and have come to the conclusion that China may very well try to make COPPER the metal money of the world and NOT si or gold. They produce 38% of all the world's copper.
Furthermore copper was the first metal used for coins in 8000 B.C.
I bought a ton of physical to start off.

What is Truth?
1st December 2010, 07:19
I've been doing some RandD for 2 days now with si skyrocketing> did not pull the trigger:(, and have come to the conclusion that China may very well try to make COPPER the metal money of the world and NOT si or gold. They produce 38% of all the world's copper.
Furthermore copper was the first metal used for coins in 8000 B.C.
I bought a ton of physical to start off.

A ton of physical copper I assume? With you big money guys I can never tell. Tell us more about this buy if you don't mind. How did you do it? Thanks CC.

silverfish
1st December 2010, 07:20
Maybe not enough value in it at the moment - the biggest practical pur-ish CU coin (say an ounce of 970 fineness) would be only worth about $0.25 which buys not a lot these days. 40 ounces per $10 is a lot to lug around. For now it might work in Asia where $0.25 buys a fair bit more but Asian wages are likely to rise. There is still the copper-backed fiat option I guess. The industrial usage would get in the way of money supply control even more than it would for silver. So much copper is used in construction (wiring, pipework) you can't lose in the long term though.

valerb
1st December 2010, 07:27
I've been doing some RandD for 2 days now with si skyrocketing> did not pull the trigger:(, and have come to the conclusion that China may very well try to make COPPER the metal money of the world and NOT si or gold. They produce 38% of all the world's copper.
Furthermore copper was the first metal used for coins in 8000 B.C.
I bought a ton of physical to start off.

I hope that ton is paper copper and not taking up space in your high security locker!!!

There certainly is enough copper to go around as compared to Gold and Silver, but driving up the price of copper to be able to back everyones currency, would be worse than doing it with Silver or Gold.

We talk about the consequences of sky high Silver on products using Silver in electronics. Can you imagine the cost of wiring a new house. Copper is used in just about everything and not in tiny quantities like Silver. Grab any motor and the bulk of the weight is in the copper windings. They tried using Aluminum for wiring in houses and after too many houses burned to the ground, they stopped that. I don't know if there is anything better for electrical use than copper, other than Silver. Maybe they should use Aluminum, that is in great abundance.

Lets look at it from a different perspective. We can take anything and declare it has a super high value to back our currencies, but it has to be of limited quantity or it isn't real. Take cotton, that's what are currency is made of. Cotton itself isn't worth much and is in great abundance. That's why our currency isn't worth anything other than what we declare it to be for trading purposes.

Another way of looking at copper in the event that Silver goes ballistic, is that they will be mining the hell out of copper just to get at the Silver and copper will be the extra cream instead of the Silver and your ton of Copper will be worth a whole lot less than whatever you paid for it.

The way copper is priced right now, you might double or triple your money in the next year or lose your ass

As always, I wish you good fortune in your gambling adventures,

Vale

jimha
1st December 2010, 08:55
Sure. Some people will/would do that. I might.




Why would there have to be a binary choice? I'll keep my silver at home and spend it directly, you'll prefer to pay a small fee to the bank for storage and the use of paper notes. Presuming we maintain our digital telecommunications infrastructure, the notes might be unnecessary; debit cards, smart phones, etc. may be all that is required.

Debit cards etc. are included by what I mean as paper. Not sure just how it would work but stick to my original thought that exchange of pure physical would be impractical.

ccjoe
1st December 2010, 09:22
I hope that ton is paper copper and not taking up space in your high security locker!!!

There certainly is enough copper to go around as compared to Gold and Silver, but driving up the price of copper to be able to back everyones currency, would be worse than doing it with Silver or Gold.

We talk about the consequences of sky high Silver on products using Silver in electronics. Can you imagine the cost of wiring a new house. Copper is used in just about everything and not in tiny quantities like Silver. Grab any motor and the bulk of the weight is in the copper windings. They tried using Aluminum for wiring in houses and after too many houses burned to the ground, they stopped that. I don't know if there is anything better for electrical use than copper, other than Silver. Maybe they should use Aluminum, that is in great abundance.

Lets look at it from a different perspective. We can take anything and declare it has a super high value to back our currencies, but it has to be of limited quantity or it isn't real. Take cotton, that's what are currency is made of. Cotton itself isn't worth much and is in great abundance. That's why our currency isn't worth anything other than what we declare it to be for trading purposes.

Another way of looking at copper in the event that Silver goes ballistic, is that they will be mining the hell out of copper just to get at the Silver and copper will be the extra cream instead of the Silver and your ton of Copper will be worth a whole lot less than whatever you paid for it.

The way copper is priced right now, you might double or triple your money in the next year or lose your ass

As always, I wish you good fortune in your gambling adventures,

Vale

Everything you say val is right as usual, EXCEPT mining as, like silver, it is extremely difficult to open up new mines> years. Every car has 100 lbs of copper. 100 million plus cars will be sold in China alone in the next decade.. Chilean copper miners are on strike NOW! Copper has gone way up in the 24 hrs since I bought the physical. What does that say about the prospects of copper? Jim Rogers loves copper.
It takes up very little space in my facility.
The mailman is going to be pissed off as every box is 66 lbs> best deal for shipping my physical. I'm excited with my "conservative" investment as I won't touch it for 5-10 years as I won't touch around 3000 of my high premium once oz coins for 5-10 years.

ccjoe
1st December 2010, 09:25
A ton of physical copper I assume? With you big money guys I can never tell. Tell us more about this buy if you don't mind. How did you do it? Thanks CC.

Physical and I'll let you know once it goes through. Thanks truth.

Goldbrix
1st December 2010, 10:01
How would a circulating metal money work? .......

I would offer you may see the return of paper currency redeemable for physical like the old US Silver Certificates for the people to use. While the GOOBERMINTS would exchange their surpluses of any nations' currency for physical. That would keep those Wall Street Vault Workers hopping.

Either way counterfeiters could be and always have been a bit of a problem so, the Secret Service and their brethern around the world would not be worried about losing their jobs.

What is Truth?
1st December 2010, 16:49
I would offer you may see the return of paper currency redeemable for physical like the old US Silver Certificates for the people to use. While the GOOBERMINTS would exchange their surpluses of any nations' currency for physical. That would keep those Wall Street Vault Workers hopping.

Either way counterfeiters could be and always have been a bit of a problem so, the Secret Service and their brethern around the world would not be worried about losing their jobs.

I could see that happening. Thank you for the reply Godbrix.

valerb
1st December 2010, 19:46
Everything you say val is right as usual, EXCEPT mining as, like silver, it is extremely difficult to open up new mines> years. Every car has 100 lbs of copper. 100 million plus cars will be sold in China alone in the next decade.. Chilean copper miners are on strike NOW! Copper has gone way up in the 24 hrs since I bought the physical. What does that say about the prospects of copper? Jim Rogers loves copper.
It takes up very little space in my facility.
The mailman is going to be pissed off as every box is 66 lbs> best deal for shipping my physical. I'm excited with my "conservative" investment as I won't touch it for 5-10 years as I won't touch around 3000 of my high premium once oz coins for 5-10 years.

I just looked at my boxes filled with pre and post copper pennies. They are 6 X 6 X 6 and weigh 35 to 36 pounds each for the copper pennies and about four pounds less for the copper clad. With all the wasted space in my boxes, I'll bet those 66 pound boxes are about 6 X 6 X 6. So your only taking up a little less than four cubic feet. Not a lot of space and also not something you would want to try and store on a second floor in your house. That's a lot of weight for a compact area. I can see someone packing three or four tons in a bedroom closet and having the floor cave in. You just have to know that if copper ever catches on as an investment item, some idiot is going to do just that and he'll wonder what went wrong!!!

buffalo3
1st December 2010, 20:15
Everything you say val is right as usual, EXCEPT mining as, like silver, it is extremely difficult to open up new mines> years. Every car has 100 lbs of copper. 100 million plus cars will be sold in China alone in the next decade.. Chilean copper miners are on strike NOW! Copper has gone way up in the 24 hrs since I bought the physical. What does that say about the prospects of copper? Jim Rogers loves copper.
It takes up very little space in my facility.
The mailman is going to be pissed off as every box is 66 lbs> best deal for shipping my physical. I'm excited with my "conservative" investment as I won't touch it for 5-10 years as I won't touch around 3000 of my high premium once oz coins for 5-10 years.

Not arguing, but if every car has a 100 lbs of copper in it, unless it is exploded, it can be recyled. I could be wrong.

valerb
1st December 2010, 23:22
Not arguing, but if every car has a 100 lbs of copper in it, unless it is exploded, it can be recycled. I could be wrong.

Your right, there have been recycling centers for scrap metal forever and even if a car did blowup, you'd probably still be able to find a couple motors laying around in the dust.

beach miner
2nd December 2010, 00:56
There is Copper and Gold Deposit up here in Alaska that goes by the name Pebble Mine. A few years ago it was estimated that there is 1 Trillion Dollars worth of Copper and Gold there, this is now 2 Trillion in todays' price. Anglo American has teamed up with Rio Tinto to put it into operation as soon as they can convince the State that it will be a safe mine and not pollute the head waters of the Bristol Bay Watershed, and it's Salmon. It would take a lot of Chinese cars to make a dent in that deposit. It is the largest deposit in the World. I was able to talk with their spokesman, and asked how much Silver was in the deposit. He said Very Little. There is enough Copper and Gold there to keep everone happy for a 100 years except those who have a pallet of it in their back yard expecting a Copper Shortage in the near future. I was really glad to hear that there is very little Silver in with the Copper, beause Silver is usually a byproduct of a Copper ooperation. I believe that a Trillion dollars in gold will also bruise some portfolios. Check it out. See for yourself. They are chomping at the bitt, rarin to start digging, just waitin for the Go Flag. See You At The Top.

silverfish
2nd December 2010, 04:16
I read about that in National Geographic a few days back and the article said there were approx 107 million ounces of Gold and 40 million tons of copper (plus 2.8 million tons of mlybdenum) so will put a ceiling on copper for a while (the gold will no doubt get hoovered up by the central banks so they can use it to control the price). Almost bound to go ahead with the money involved despite the long term risk of pollution on the salmon.

Mighty Moose
2nd December 2010, 04:39
http://forums.silverseek.com/showthread.php?19077-China-Earn-s-Interest-by-Shorting-Silver&highlight=China


This article, written in January of 2008, presupposes that it'd been China, to date, who was responsible for suppressing the price of silver, for their short & long-term benefit. As a matter of record, we now know Bear Stearns had taken out massive short positions on silver. Were they acting independently of China or on it's behalf? Its also now public knowledge that JPM acquired all those shorts when taking over Bear Stearns and JPM has continued, even more so, to massively short silver. What has truly been going on & why, in regards to efforts to suppress the price of silver?

(Note: I cropped the article due to max length allowed for posting)
Happy reading,
MM

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article3554.html

China Earn's Interest by Shorting SilverCommodities / Gold & Silver
Jan 31, 2008 - 01:35 AM
By: Professor_Emeritus

Even the most rabid silver bugs admit the possibility that the Chinese are the Big Silver Shorts. This suggests that the Big Gold Shorts are also governments. Neither are naked by any stretch of the imagination. The double whammy of gold and silver accumulation by unnamed governments is the big puzzle of the present financial crisis in the world as it holds the key to the resolution.

For a better understanding of the Chinese silver picture you have to know a little background of the role of silver in China. The facts are as follows. China has been on a silver standard since time immemorial. China stayed on the silver standard after other trading nations of the world demonetized silver and embraced the gold standard at the end of the 19th century.

China's external trade was insignificant, but the volume of silver currency for domestic use must have been enormous. In addition, there was an avalanche of silver from abroad raining on China. As the silver price fell over 75 percent from $1.29 in 1873 to $0.25 by 1932 (with a brief spike back to $1.29 at the end of World War I), other governments were dumping silver on China mercilessly. China was the only country on the silver standard and the Chinese central bank had to take all the silver offered to it at a fixed price. This situation lasted right up to 1949 when the Communists took over the government. In fact, several Western historians blame the Communist victory on the unprecedented silver inflation that Western governments inflicted on the Chinese economy by their insane silver dumping policy before World War II.

Nobody knows how much silver the Chinese Communists found in bank vaults and in the safe deposit boxes of Chinese merchants who fled the country, when they took over the mainland. Nobody knows how much silver is still hidden in the mattresses of Chinese peasants. The amounts must be enormous. The best estimate is that most of that silver has never been consumed and still exists in monetary form. China's primitive economy under Mao was in no position to put that silver to industrial use. All that silver is now at the disposal of the Chinese government that could easily buy up silver coins scattered around the cities and in the countryside, at the present rising price of silver.

China is the only country in the world that has consistently run trade surpluses since 1950. As far as it is known, silver never figured in China's exports (except re-exporting foreign-owned refined silver.) Why should the Chinese export silver, when they could export almost anything else? Silver to the Chinese mind is money. You don't export money unless you are forced to cover your trade deficit, of which China has none. China has always paid for its imports with exports, a smart thing to do, too.

The Chinese are alive to the fact that escaped the silver bugs in the West, that you can derive a silver income from your pile of silver by covered short selling, even while retaining physical control of your silver hoard. THIS IS AN UNPRECEDENTED BONANZA IN THE HISTORY OF MONEY. It has never before happened that you earn interest while retaining physical control of your money. Typically you have to release control of money in order to earn interest income, that is, you have to assume risk. Lending money necessarily involves risks: the borrower may default. But if you don't give up physical control, then you will escape the monetary debacle unscathed. Because of the imbecility of the managers of the paper dollar standard there exist durable risk-free profit opportunities in holding monetary metals in the balance sheet. The trick is: covered selling. That's possible because the price of monetary metals has been allowed to fluctuate. The price fluctuation of a monetary metal, like the flow-and-ebb of the oceans, represents energy. Energy that can be harnessed. Energy that can be harnessed only by those who understand monetary economics.

The Chinese are not stupid. They looked askance at the silver and gold demonetization farce perpetrated on a gullible world by Western governments. (Gold was demonetized 100 years after silver had been, in 1973.) They are not falling for the cheap trick. They hang on to their silver. They make most of the stupidity of their adversaries. Nor are they in a hurry to push the silver price to three or four digits in order to sell their silver for a quick profit in irredeemable dollars (which is what the get-rich-quick crowd plans to do). Rather, it is in their interest to derive constant and consistent income in silver from covered writing, or using other dynamic hedging strategies. Why should they trade their silver for dollars, when they have far more dollars already than they want?

From the point of view of the Chinese, a slow rise in the silver price (and a gradual rather than an abrupt depreciation of the irredeemable paper dollar) appears more desirable than an overnight jump in the silver price to three digits that would put an end to their lucrative silver income from covered writing. They certainly have the clout to dictate the pace of silver price appreciation, and probably also of paper dollar depreciation.

The Chinese are inscrutable. They don't show you their blueprint for the new international monetary system which they plan to impose on the world after the inglorious end of the paper dollar era. It may be a born-again silver standard. The Chinese are using their cash silver and the silver income derived from covered writing as a hedge for their exposure to irredeemable paper dollars to the tune of $1.3 trillion, by far the largest accumulation of dollars the world has ever seen. What they will lose on their paper portfolio they will gain on their cash silver position. They will probably gain much more. While the finance-capital of the world denominated as it is in paper dollars is programmed to self-destruct, the Chinese will control much of the liquid capital in the world after the dollar-debacle. They will be a great source of capital exports, if you can pay their price, that is.

The Chinese can earn their way in the world. They can work when work is necessary, and they can save when saving is called for. They are doing fine, thank you very much. You need not worry about the Chinese losing their kitty of $1.3 trillion invested in U.S. T-bills and T-bonds.

However, you had better start worrying about America which is no longer in control of its economic and financial destiny. It has let world monetary leadership slip out of its hands. America's industrial capital is in shambles. From the largest creditor it turned itself into the largest debtor. The light has gone out at the great American universities as far as monetary science is concerned. Through bribe, blackmail, and attrition all upright and serious monetary economists were bumped from their academic chairs. The Great Chinese Cultural Revolution was a picnic in comparison to the Great American Cultural Revolution eliminating monetary economics from the curriculum. Courses on money presently taught consist of pure Keynesian and Friedmanite bunk.

It is a farce to blame the present financial crisis on lax lending standards and rogue traders. What we see is the return of the chickens to roost. This crisis has been in the making for over a century, involving the so-called demonetization of both monetary metals. The move was inspired and led by the United States. In particular, the so-called demonetization of gold was designed to camouflage the default of the U.S. Treasury on its gold-obligations. The industrial nations of the West did not even say 'ouch' when America's default caused them losses measured in hundreds of billions on their holdings of dollars in 1971. They became accomplices eager to start milking their own savers and producers by joining the paper-money farce. The day of reckoning dawns.

America's plight is self-inflicted. Yet America could still turn the train of monetary events to its advantage, reclaiming monetary leadership, if it opened the U.S. Mint to gold and silver. It should do it before China or Russia opened theirs. Unfortunately, there does not seem..............

buffalo3
3rd December 2010, 21:10
There is Copper and Gold Deposit up here in Alaska that goes by the name Pebble Mine. A few years ago it was estimated that there is 1 Trillion Dollars worth of Copper and Gold there, this is now 2 Trillion in todays' price. Anglo American has teamed up with Rio Tinto to put it into operation as soon as they can convince the State that it will be a safe mine and not pollute the head waters of the Bristol Bay Watershed, and it's Salmon. It would take a lot of Chinese cars to make a dent in that deposit. It is the largest deposit in the World. I was able to talk with their spokesman, and asked how much Silver was in the deposit. He said Very Little. There is enough Copper and Gold there to keep everone happy for a 100 years except those who have a pallet of it in their back yard expecting a Copper Shortage in the near future. I was really glad to hear that there is very little Silver in with the Copper, beause Silver is usually a byproduct of a Copper ooperation. I believe that a Trillion dollars in gold will also bruise some portfolios. Check it out. See for yourself. They are chomping at the bitt, rarin to start digging, just waitin for the Go Flag. See You At The Top.

Hopefully JP doesn,t buy it.

aequitas
4th December 2010, 00:29
Really?

With Gold @ $1413 per oz you need 1.415 billion ounces of gold to make 2 trillion dollars. The estimates as of Febuary 2010 put the total gold reserves at 67 million ounces of gold for the Pebble mine ore body. The ore grades are also fairly low and it will not be cheap to extract it. Total gold mined in the world is believed to be about 5 billion ounces so 67 million ounces is not signifigant in the long run. Also if peak oil occurs the cost of mining could make it even more cost prohibitive.

silverheartbone
5th December 2010, 11:28
from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FDIC

The fund is mandated by law to keep a balance equivalent to 1.15 percent of insured deposits. As of June 30, 2008, the insured banks held approximately $7,025 billion in total deposits, though not all of those are insured.

The DIF's reserves are not the only cash resources available to the FDIC: in addition to the $18 billion in the DIF as of June, 2010; the FDIC has $19 billion of cash and U.S. Treasury securities held as of June, 2010 and has the ability to borrow up to $500 billion from the Treasury. The FDIC can also demand special assessments from banks as it did in the second quarter of 2009.

A single bank, such as Bank of America can have hundreds of billions of dollars in deposits all entangled with the fractional reserve system.
There is no way the FDIC could cover any major bank failure.
Ergo, too big to fail.

However we the people become slaves if we allow the parasitic institutions to survive.

My guess is that you should withdraw your money now and buy commodities because you can not fight history.

Borrow against your retirement accounts and buy bullion.
If the account survives what's coming, you will be able to easily repay.

The branches of the federal government which have abdicated their constitutional responsibility for governance of our money to private banksters need to be fixed.

One day soon they will attempt to decree that our bank accounts that were Federal Reserve money are now globalist money.
That decree would be QUITE ILLEGAL.
The mandated capital punishment for the crime of money debasement should be applied to all of the criminals involved.

silverheartbone
5th December 2010, 11:49
http://www.webmasterworld.com/forum89/3483.htm
On this page I discovered a hidden truth.
(see digitalv 10:04 pm on Aug 24, 2004)

Over the past six years the limit has moved up to $250,000 from $100,000,
but I'd guess the global limit per SSN remains.

So if any of you high rollers were depending on multiple accounts to insurance cover your assets,
you may want to do a little investigation about this for yourself,
and not bank on bankster's word of mouth.

silverheartbone
5th December 2010, 12:03
https://www2.fdic.gov/drrip/afi/index.asp

https://www2.fdic.gov/header/images/FDIC_Home_Logo.pnghttps://www2.fdic.gov/header/images/Header_Text.png
"Each depositor insured to at least $250,000 per insured bank"

If they fail, then I'm richer that I thought!!! http://forums.silverseek.com/images/smilies/icon_surprised.gif

silverheartbone
5th December 2010, 13:47
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y31TNg5rqVQ