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View Full Version : Certified Manipulators Exchange Group



silverheartbone
16th November 2010, 10:53
Derivative Kings CME Group main website (http://www.cmegroup.com/)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apQQPF_u6Ls

CME Taps the Brakes on Silver (http://www.cnbc.com/id/40095040)

Do they also have control of the accelerator pedal?

Matthew Shelley
16th November 2010, 11:00
Derivative Kings CME Group main website (http://www.cmegroup.com/)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=apQQPF_u6Ls
CME Taps the Brakes on Silver (http://www.cnbc.com/id/40095040)
Do they also have control of the accelerator pedal?

Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't brakes usually used to keep a vehicle from hurtling downhill out of control? You use the accelerator to climb the hill.

Matt

silverheartbone
16th November 2010, 11:07
Correct me if I am wrong, but aren't brakes usually used to keep a vehicle from hurtling downhill out of control? You use the accelerator to climb the hill.

Matt
OK, remember you asked for it.

Based on your logic, brakes are not usually used in Kansas. http://forums.silverseek.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

skijake
16th November 2010, 11:28
In the video the speaker stated the margin requirements have never been changed in other markets like oil, sugar, corn, whatever.
Does that mean in a run-up or just ever? Seems to me margin requirements must have changed at some point somewhere in some market.
No doubt the timing wreaks of suspicious back-room type deals, but it is interesting why the CME would enact new rules that in essence tap the brakes during a run-up but did they reduce the margins when Silver was in freefall a couple of years back?
If those who cry "manipulation" {of which I'm one} wouldn't have these glaringly obvious examples to talk about they'd have nothing. lol

Matthew Shelley
16th November 2010, 12:14
In the video the speaker stated the margin requirements have never been changed in other markets like oil, sugar, corn, whatever.
Does that mean in a run-up or just ever? Seems to me margin requirements must have changed at some point somewhere in some market.
No doubt the timing wreaks of suspicious back-room type deals, but it is interesting why the CME would enact new rules that in essence tap the brakes during a run-up but did they reduce the margins when Silver was in freefall a couple of years back?
If those who cry "manipulation" {of which I'm one} wouldn't have these glaringly obvious examples to talk about they'd have nothing. lol

Margins change in the commodity futures markets all the time. Mostly in response to daily volatility that exceeds current margin rates, or periods of quiet markets where the margin rates are deemed high for current market conditions.

If you look at the contract size vs the margin and market movement, you will see that the one day drop in Silver well exceeded the current margin, thus causing the exchange to increase the margin. It wasn't an 'evil cabal' thing, or a 'conspiracy'. It was normal business in these markets to protect participants involved, that happens all the time.

Personally I thought they were a little slow to pull the trigger, and when they did, that they should have raised them a bit higher. Kind of scares me that a small trader can put up only 8 grand to trade a market that has recently made a ten grand plus short term move like that.

Matthew C. Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

Matthew Shelley
16th November 2010, 12:25
OK, remember you asked for it.
Based on your logic, brakes are not usually used in Kansas. http://forums.silverseek.com/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif

As much as I'd love to make a joke about Kansas being a flyover state, the crops there provided well for my family. My Father was a wheat broker in the pit for thirty years and I have listened to that market around the dinner table my whole life. When I first got on the floor and started trading metals, my Father used to walk by me in the pit and see me happy as a clam trading up a storm in Silver and Gold and growl "You can't eat it!".

Matthew C. Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

skijake
16th November 2010, 14:00
Margins change in the commodity futures markets all the time. Mostly in response to daily volatility that exceeds current margin rates, or periods of quiet markets where the margin rates are deemed high for current market conditions.
If you look at the contract size vs the margin and market movement, you will see that the one day drop in Silver well exceeded the current margin, thus causing the exchange to increase the margin. It wasn't an 'evil cabal' thing, or a 'conspiracy'. It was normal business in these markets to protect participants involved, that happens all the time.

Personally I thought they were a little slow to pull the trigger, and when they did, that they should have raised them a bit higher. Kind of scares me that a small trader can put up only 8 grand to trade a market that has recently made a ten grand plus short term move like that.

.

So during tumultuous periods of markets trading say limit down there must be multiple examples of margins being reduced on those days to relieve that pressure, no?

Matthew Shelley
16th November 2010, 14:42
So during tumultuous periods of markets trading say limit down there must be multiple examples of margins being reduced on those days to relieve that pressure, no?

No. Price up or down is not what affects margin. It is the amount and speed of the movement that counts. The recent increase in the Silver margin (in spite of some misconceptions I have seen lately) was not a response to the rise in price. It was a response to the volatility. If a market makes a sudden move in either direction, that can influence a margin increase, not the specific direction.

As a matter of fact, tumultuous periods of limit down commonly cause margin increases.

Matthew C. Shelley
Commodity Broker

As always: Trading in futures and options is very high risk investing. You can lose all or more of the money you invest. Only risk capital should be used.

strongman shelford
16th November 2010, 17:47
the title of this thread is quiet creative !

silverheartbone
16th November 2010, 17:49
the title of this thread is quiet creative !

I could not find the original meaning for the CME acronym.

Matthew Shelley
16th November 2010, 18:07
I could not find the original meaning for the CME acronym.

Chicago Mercantile Exchange

silverheartbone
16th November 2010, 18:08
Chicago Mercantile Exchange

Cool I actually got one of three.