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Ardent Listener
10th August 2006, 16:34
Rule #1 - When all else fails, there is silver.

No one likes to be a prophet of doom, but the simple truth is that silver is the world's money of last resort. Should a severe economic collapse occur, leaving paper assets worthless, silver will be primary currency for purchase of goods and services. (Gold will be a store of major wealth, but will be priced too high for day-to-day use.) Thus, every investor should own some physical silver-and store a portion of it where it's accessible in an emergency.

Many times we are asked what is the best form of silver to purchase. Our answer has been to consistently begin with old silver coins, known as "junk silver" in the trade. Although, we do not see a time where you would have to rely upon silver coinage for daily expenses it has proven useful in the past.

When our offices were in Los Angeles during the mid 1970's and the first Oil Embargo took place, two private gas station owners set up pumps that would accept payment in silver coinage. We point this out simply to let our readers know that the Free Market can provide some very interesting solutions during difficult times.

Finally, it must be remember that the one financial fact that history bears out is simply all paper currencies eventually fail.

2. Start small- keep it simple.

Too many investors, upon deciding to beef up the metals portion of their portfolio, buy too much physical silver at once-and in the wrong forms. Beginning metals investors should concentrate on pure bullion bars or coins, in smaller sizes, looking to pay a minimum premium over the actual metal value. Avoid commemorative coins, decorative items, jewelry and other collectibles, all of which carry large premiums and have limited resale markets.

Anyone that has spent much time on our website www.silver-investor.com knows we have consistently advocated that all metals investors begin with a physical position before making any other type of precious metals investment. Certainly, mining stocks offer leverage and can at times multiply your wealth substantially it is only by starting with the sure thing, real metal that you build a foundation of wealth.

The Morgan Report deals with the reasons why you should be investing in the precious metals, but is not focused just on silver and gold. We have featured investment ideas and our opinions outside the precious metals area from time to time. The majority of our worked however is focused upon you and how you can make the most money as safely as possible. This requires that you diversify even in the precious metals mining sector.

3. Boost the buying power of your dollars with mining shares.

If you are a typical investor, you cannot expect to be an expert on silver and the silver market- but you can invest in the people who are. Once you have established a core holding of physical silver, leverage both your knowledge and your buying power by purchasing the stocks of mining companies. These shares are highly responsive to changes in silver prices, frequently producing much higher percentage returns than the metal itself.

This rule is one that many silver investors know quite well and the joys of watching your mining stock outperform the increase in bullion prices by a factor of two or three to one is exciting. However, leverage works in both directions and when the price of the precious metals fall back the mining shares fall back hard. This is normal market behavior and should be anticipated by the savvy metals investor.

Again, mining shares analysis is difficult and in the speculative area nearly impossible. Because of this fact, it is important to do your own homework carefully. Also you can subscribe to a service that provides insights into this area. We do our best to diversify and to give clear signals to area we think have merit. However, we are only human and have made errors in the past. It is the nature of investing that you cannot be 100% accurate, although for the first two years our report did have nothing but winners. Those days are over and in today's market is it more important that ever to be careful and use proper money management.

If you do not wish to put in the study required to succeed in this area of investing, we suggest you consider a gold mutual fund. Unfortunately, there is not a silver mutual fund at this time. This is a question we are asked quite often.

4. Dollar - cost average to lower your costs - and increase your discipline.

Dollar-cost averaging is an ideal way to implement Rule 2. By making same-dollar purchases at regular time intervals, you wind up buying more metal when prices are low and less when they are high. This approach helps you develop discipline, erasing the "trader' mentality that infects many market participants and instead fostering an "investment" philosophy. Dollar-cost averaging also eases some of the sting when prices move against you, allowing you to view the downturn as an improved buying opportunity rather than a disappointing loss.

Many beginning investors think "if only".......

If only I had subscribed to The Morgan Report four years ago and bought the one Top Tier silver company "61 Neutron" as Charles Savoie described it, look at how much money I would have made.

It is human nature to want to be precise in all our affairs, but in the real world of competing against others for the one thing most of us think about daily--- Money-- a mature approach is necessary. Getting in at the exact bottom and out at the exact top is an amateurs approach. In a bull market "dollar cost averaging is a wise approach.

However we want to caution our readers that averaging down in a speculative mining company can be very dangerous. We normally do not advise doing so. However, in a top tier company or gold mutual fund this is acceptable in most cases as long as the bull market is intact.

5. Do not get a raw deal from your dealer.

Because of the specialized nature of the physical metals markets, selection of a well established dealer with a quality reputation is essential. A good dealer will provide timely executation of your trades at fair prices with reasonable fees. Note, as well, that the lowest price is not necessarily the best price. In the past, some dealers who squeezed their price margins too low in order to attract clients were unable to make delivery, leaving those clients holding the bag.

This unfortunately is an area that prevents many people from purchasing precious metals in the first place. People are leery of dealing with someone over the phone and sending them money, and then waiting for their precious metals to show up. It is very rare that something goes wrong and almost all dealers are reputable. However, as in most aspects of life the occasional fraud does appear.

It has been our experience that most questionable dealers are fairly easy to spot by simply using common sense. Also, we must mention that fraudulent schemes normally appear near the end of the cycle which is not for another five years or so in our view.

Years ago as we were nearing the peak in gold and silver, a nation wide campaign was started in all the major newspapers in the U.S. and the Headline read "Buy Gold and Silver Below Spot"

Now, this is simply impossible and anyone with a shred of common sense would have stayed clear of such a "dealer" , but since some people seek that special deal many customers were taken to the cleaners as this company filed bankruptcy.


6. What's yours is yours - so keep it that way.

While it is wise to keep some of your silver where you can get to it easily, it is also important to keep the bulk of your metal in a safe place- especially as you holdings increase. However, if you establish an account with a brokerage warehouse or other public storage facility, you should make sure your holdings are kept segregated and that you can inspect them when you wish.

Anyone that has studied the Silver-Investor website knows there is far more paper silver than real silver in the world. In fact our primary premise is that the real sustained move up in silver will not occur until the market recognizes this fact. You certainly can participate in alternative precious metals investments such as pool accounts or options but remember you are dealing in the paper world and expect settlement in paper not in metal.

Fully paid Comex warehouse certificates held by you in your name do comprise real silver.

Be real, get real to begin with, then if you wish speculate further.


7. Silver speculation's like cough syrup- good in small doses, but too much can make your portfolio sick.

Depending on your individual goals and our personal tolerance for risk, a small portion of the assets you commit to silver can be used for speculation, perhaps in futures contracts or options on futures. Never forget, however, that this type of trading is speculation, NOT investment.

This is probably our most important rule. However, some people are not willing to understand what speculation means. We have featured some companies in the past that simply did not perform and as a consequence some people had sick portfolios for one simple reason... They did not obey the rules of speculation. They fell in love with a certain story or region, or drill grade and put more into a particular speculation than was prudent. We cannot emphasize this enough, we all like to bet a little to win big, and this means you must keep enough money to make several bets. If you use our work as outlined in The Morgan Report, you chances of success will be greatly enhanced. Some wish to make that big score and put too much into the speculative category, or fall in love with one particular stock if you do not diversify properly you chances of success are lessened.

8. A little information can mean a lot more dollars.

You do not need to be a student of the silver market to profit from your metals investments. However, you will greatly increase your chances of success-and the size of your potential profits-if you understand the fundamental factors that drive silver prices and pay regular attention to current supply and demand considerations.


9. Collecting silver is an art- but not really an investment.

Owning fine silver items- including rare coins - can provide great enjoyment and personal satisfaction. Like paintings and other artworks, they are beautiful and often quite valuable-and, if you are astute at buying and selling, they can generate large profits. In spite of this, however, always view such holdings as collectibles, NOT as investments. When you need your silver-or simply want to cash in- you do not want to have difficulty selling or be forced to forfeit a large aesthetic premium, both of which are likely with silver rarities.

10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.

No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets.

Note: Under the current economic conditions, I feel 20-25% is more appropriate, than the original 10 percent per the book global-investor book of investing rules pages 301-303. At the time the book was published the economic conditions were more stable but now that the world is in a war environment the higher allocation is necessary!

Anonymous
13th August 2006, 00:22
Achtung!!

DaleFromCalgary
12th October 2009, 14:03
"10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.
No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets."

When I first started investing in commodities I adhered to this rule. My physical oil is still below 10% of my assets because I can't find enough good deals. My gold is about 7% but at the rate its price is going up it may outrace me to the finish line.

My silver still has a long ways to go (I'm at less than 1% of my assets now) but buying it presents some practical problems because of its weight. I can slip three gold Maple Leafs into my shirt pocket and walk out of the dealer. Buying the equivalent dollar amount of silver presents a problem. At a GSR of 55, I would be carrying 165 ounces or 5.1 kg, doable but damned heavy lugging it out to the car, not to mention conspicuous to passersby. The most silver I have bought at one time was eleven 10-ounce bars, still heavy but I could carry it in a briefcase without the bottom dropping out.

Storing silver also requires smaller containers. I use old floppy-disk drawers or cassette carry-alls (which I realize dates me), which hold about thirty 10-ounce bars each. (A bar laid sideways is about the same length as a floppy or cassette.) These are heavy to lift, definitely both hands.

ccjoe
12th October 2009, 14:08
"10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.
No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets."

When I first started investing in commodities I adhered to this rule. My physical oil is still below 10% of my assets because I can't find enough good deals. My gold is about 7% but at the rate its price is going up it may outrace me to the finish line.

My silver still has a long ways to go (I'm at less than 1% of my assets now) but buying it presents some practical problems because of its weight. I can slip three gold Maple Leafs into my shirt pocket and walk out of the dealer. Buying the equivalent dollar amount of silver presents a problem. At a GSR of 55, I would be carrying 165 ounces or 5.1 kg, doable but damned heavy lugging it out to the car, not to mention conspicuous to passersby. The most silver I have bought at one time was eleven 10-ounce bars, still heavy but I could carry it in a briefcase without the bottom dropping out.

Storing silver also requires smaller containers. I use old floppy-disk drawers or cassette carry-alls (which I realize dates me), which hold about thirty 10-ounce bars each. (A bar laid sideways is about the same length as a floppy or cassette.) These are heavy to lift, definitely both hands.

Not that bad Dale as I just had to carry the 1/3 ton of .9999 to the high tech security facility ONE time. I lift weights so it wasn't bad. Those 1000 oz bars( 70 lbs ) were tough though.

DaleFromCalgary
24th January 2010, 08:04
"10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.
No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets.
Note: Under the current economic conditions, I feel 20-25% is more appropriate, than the original 10 percent per the book global-investor book of investing rules pages 301-303. At the time the book was published the economic conditions were more stable but now that the world is in a war environment the higher allocation is necessary!"

I'm letting my gold creep over the 10% limit but am nowhere near my limit in silver. Since I only buy silver to trade the ratio, and it will be a few years yet before the GSR gets down below 40, this gives me some leeway. My oil is just under 10% and my palladium is only at 1%. I wish the latter was higher but I can't get anymore in Calgary and on-line sources are too expensive because palladium is subject to sales tax (Alberta has none).

UmassSteve
24th January 2010, 09:00
"10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.
No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets."

When I first started investing in commodities I adhered to this rule. My physical oil is still below 10% of my assets because I can't find enough good deals. My gold is about 7% but at the rate its price is going up it may outrace me to the finish line.

My silver still has a long ways to go (I'm at less than 1% of my assets now) but buying it presents some practical problems because of its weight. I can slip three gold Maple Leafs into my shirt pocket and walk out of the dealer. Buying the equivalent dollar amount of silver presents a problem. At a GSR of 55, I would be carrying 165 ounces or 5.1 kg, doable but damned heavy lugging it out to the car, not to mention conspicuous to passersby. The most silver I have bought at one time was eleven 10-ounce bars, still heavy but I could carry it in a briefcase without the bottom dropping out.

Storing silver also requires smaller containers. I use old floppy-disk drawers or cassette carry-alls (which I realize dates me), which hold about thirty 10-ounce bars each. (A bar laid sideways is about the same length as a floppy or cassette.) These are heavy to lift, definitely both hands.

As a helpful, young, sprightly kid, I will gladly help you carry your silver to your house for a 1% gratuity on your purchase.

and(EU)
24th January 2010, 09:06
I'm real bug compared to you guys.
55% in physical Ag, 30% physical Au, 3% Pd, rest is cash. No paper metals, no shares. :cool:

maplesilverbug
24th January 2010, 09:19
Buying the equivalent dollar amount of silver presents a problem. At a GSR of 55, I would be carrying 165 ounces or 5.1 kg, doable but damned heavy lugging it out to the car...

Dale...um...no offense, really...but 5kgs/11lbs is NOT "damned heavy"!
It's not even just regular heavy!

I once carried a monster box (15kg/34lb) for four blocks.

But I don't know your specific physicalities...you might have had arm-polio when you were a young lad or something.

Next time you are carrying your 11 pounds of silver out to your car, do your best Zen and imagine you are carrying this 11-pounds instead:

http://puppydogweb.com/gallery/malteses/maltese_daudet4.jpg


:D

Sakata
24th January 2010, 09:41
At a GSR of 55, I would be carrying 165 ounces or 5.1 kg, doable but damned heavy lugging it out to the car, not to mention conspicuous to passersby.

A month ago I mailed 18 100 oz to Golden State Mint for conversion to 1 oz rounds. That's about 56kg. I'm almost 60 year old but I still managed to carry it from the car to the post office counter in one trip. If 165 ounces is too much then I suggest you buy more of it and practice carrying it around. It will be amazing how you will soon want to own more. :)

While I see gold as an essential part of everyone's portfolio I still think you need more silver than gold (in dollar terms, not weight.) And much as I respect the original posters opinions, I think that these days a much higher percentage than he recommends is appropriate. After all, the post was made in 2006 when things were looking a lot better than they are now.

Longhaul
24th January 2010, 09:51
I'm real bug compared to you guys.
55% in physical Ag, 30% physical Au, 3% Pd, rest is cash. No paper metals, no shares. :cool:

Perfect.....I think you are right because you agree with me:D

argent_pur
24th January 2010, 10:06
70% Ag
20% Au
10% Cash

Az2Africa
24th January 2010, 20:14
I'm not sure what I was thinking when I bought the frist 1000oz locally. They were rounds in two bags that the dealer put into two buckets with wire handles. Halfway to the car about 100 yards away I realized that they were pretty heavy. That made it feel like I was getting my monies worth!!

slvr
24th January 2010, 20:27
Wow --I'm like 3 for 10 on this one. I'm too much of an "all or nothing type of person"

Damn, that's a cute dog!!

maplesilverbug
24th January 2010, 21:27
Damn, that's a cute dog!!

Maybe we should make it the PM mascot!

Mighty Moose
25th January 2010, 03:41
I'm real bug compared to you guys.
55% in physical Ag, 30% physical Au, 3% Pd, rest is cash. No paper metals, no shares. :cool:

Dude, I like your style. :cool:

Mighty Moose
25th January 2010, 03:43
70% Ag
20% Au
10% Cash

Dude, I like your style even more! :cool:

I take that back if that Au or Ag is in paper.

Gino
25th January 2010, 04:07
Rule #1 - When all else fails, there is silver.

:
:

10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.

No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio. I recommend committing no more than 10 percent of the average portfolio to silver-regardless of how strong you feel about the potential of the metals markets.

Note: Under the current economic conditions, I feel 20-25% is more appropriate, than the original 10 percent per the book global-investor book of investing rules pages 301-303. At the time the book was published the economic conditions were more stable but now that the world is in a war environment the higher allocation is necessary!

It seems to me that we might be in the midsts of experiencing point 1, against which I wonder what David Morgan suggests the other 75% to 80% of your investment portfolio should be in. What are the possible alternate asset classes?

Stocks – Nothing but a casino with the house (investment banks) controlling (front running) the entire market and corporations ready and willing to dilute your investment and raise fresh capital to fund whatever misadventure or mistake they have or are about to make.

ETFs – Buying pieces of paper so someone else can control the asset or not even buy it in the first place? This is just full of counter party risk;

Bonds (sovereign or otherwise) – you must be kidding right? There is not a more manipulated market on the planet. The central banks of the world are buying up their respective nation’s debt, while all governments are selling record amounts. That just ain’t sustainable and someone has to loose, and it won’t be the government. Corporate bonds are what? A gamble that the business you’re funding won’t go bankrupt. There is just too much corruption in the system to trust what company directors might feel they can get away with when they see the financial writing on the wall.

Managed Funds – Stocks and ETF’s under someone else’s control, under terms that may mean they can withhold returning your investment if it suits them, allowing them (the fund managers) to loan out your shares to fund their own short trading. Good luck!

Real Estate – This seems to be either a case of the falling knife syndrome, if the bubble has burst in your area, or buying in at the peak of the market, if not.

Forex – Oh, yeah baby! Please, please, let me bet on what distressed governments and their psychopathic central bankers might do. Actually, I found out a sales support guy at work was trading currencies online at night and that was on top of my kid’s dance teacher was telling me she had set up a forex trading account last year. While I sincerely hope they are successful, there is no way I would even touch it after hearing their get rich quick dreams.

Commodities (Agriculture, Industrial, Oil, etc.) – Unless you are buying physical quantities of produce and storing somewhere like on a super tanker in the Gulf of Mexico, its trading in futures contracts. Which may or may not be manipulated and faked because you are never, ever going to take delivery and everyone knows it.

Cash - Not a bad option, unless there is no returning interest and the government is printing more and more of it all the time.

Gold (and other precious metals) – Yes please, but, isn’t it just more or less the same as Silver?

So, unless David Morgan is suggesting that one should allocate their remaining investment funds between Gold, Platinum or Palladium (and some Cash), what’s left?

The only thing that I can think of is something that DaleFromCalgary has hinted at a few times, and that is investing directly into new value creating enterprises, by-passing the casino markets to finance new business directly. But this is so risky it is hard to believe you want to invest 80% of what you have into it.

Mighty Moose
25th January 2010, 07:50
You just articulated what was stuck somewhere in my brain.

Thanks for the therapy session. Now I know why I own silver again.

See, mother! I'm not crazy after all! :eek: Am I? :confused:

UmassSteve
25th January 2010, 09:12
So this probably won't be a popular alternative, but I personally have gotten luckyerish with peer-to-peer lending ala prosper.com

For those who are unfamiliar, essentially prosper is a place where people who need a loan up to 25,000 (for whatever reason) go to try to get that loan. Prosper gets a credit report, prints it along with some pertinent information like income, debt to income ratio, and some other things. The other side of the equation are the thousands of "bankers" who agree to finance a portion of the loan. Essentially you, the lender, give them, the banker 50 dollars at an interest rate you stipulate. Lenders bid on the loan for seven days, and as the competition for the loan increases, the interest rate decreases.

By cutting out the bank's large, bloated, profit-taking structure the lenders (who would be in savings accounts or CDs in a normal bank) can get between 8-20+% interest on their investment. And borrowers can typically get small loans at a couple of points lower than they could in the bank. The big risk is that they can default on you, and prosper's collection team is notorious for sucking. I managed to get into the system when the lender population was small a while before our economic mess, so my results may be atypical, but the majority of my loans are 17% with people who had A or AA credit. I have had 4 loans (200) go into collections, but these I stupidly allowed a computer program to pick for me rather than verify myself. If I cut out the ones I didn't choose, 100% of the ones I chose have had 16% interest, on-time payments, for about two and some change years. Unfortunately, it is no longer allowed in Mass, so I haven't been able to use it since 2007 or early 2008.

Your experience may vary. Especially in these economic situations. I just figured some of you lovely folks might be interested. I just liked the idea of it because it was a big FU to the banking industry. And that was before I even really hated the banking industry!

argent_pur
25th January 2010, 10:07
Dude, I like your style even more! :cool:

I take that back if that Au or Ag is in paper.

LOL MM!! I guess I'll have to keep you wondering;)

Jake
25th January 2010, 11:41
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TheLoneRanger
25th January 2010, 12:17
Jake .. you haven't been arround long enough to know the advantages of breaking down the big bars into rounds.. it all has to do with how premiums behave when the panic starts and silver is hard to find... premiums are pretty mutable and the small stuff gets the big premiums.. silver is not just silver... each and every form of silver is it's own little market and each and every form of silver has it's own history and track record in good times and bad.

Jake you are way off base on this one and you need a friend to tell you you are acting like a jerk.

Allow for the possibility others folks might still know something you apparently don't.

Gene Daniels
25th January 2010, 15:22
[QUOTE=Ardent Listener;598]
10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.

I don't remember who said it, but one of the famous investors of the past said something that has stuck with me, "diversity is great if you are not sure you are right. But if you are sure... go in all the way." (or something close to that)

Of course I will admit that I am not 100% sure that silver is the best investment going, but I am over 90% sure, so I am WAY over the 10-25% thing. I figure in the worse case it will make good savings. In the best case I will buy 2 or 3 houses debt free - live in one and rent out the others.

maplesilverbug
25th January 2010, 15:54
ccjoey went "all in" last year because he KNEW without a shred of DOUBT that HE was ABSOLUTELY RIGHT!!! joey was going to be the first man on the moon!!!

THIS year, however, joey is less than "all in"...but he still knows he is absolutely right.

So...there goes that theory. Some people are perfect no matter the situation!

:rolleyes:

maplesilverbug
25th January 2010, 16:01
silver is not just silver...

This certain topic is covered else where in the forum...somewhere...

#1. SILVER = SILVER

#2. SPOT = BELIEF = PREMIUM


#1 will N-E-V-E-R change -- E-V-E-R!!!
#2 changes by the minute.


Long live E=mc3 (sooo much faster than e=mc2!)

Jake
25th January 2010, 16:20
`````````````

TheLoneRanger
25th January 2010, 17:40
This certain topic is covered else where in the forum...somewhere...

#1. SILVER = SILVER

#2. SPOT = BELIEF = PREMIUM


#1 will N-E-V-E-R change -- E-V-E-R!!!
#2 changes by the minute.


Long live E=mc3 (sooo much faster than e=mc2!)

All well and good, except you can't seperate the silver from the coin or round or bar. Each form or silver is it's own market , the premiums and spreads change based on several factors.. it's hard to know which market situation will occur in the near future , but once you indentify the market situation you do have historical precident to help know which form of silver has done better to use as a guide as to what forms of silver will do better this time arround.. always good to have a diverse supply. Always good to keep an eye on developing market trends.
This isn't about one form or another not being liquid.. all silver is liquid at some price, that price being composed of spot and premium... some forms command a higher premium at some times. and thus are more profitable to sell allowing you to buy lower premium silver in greater weight.. and sometimes what was once lower premium silver becomes higher premium silver and vice versa. Silver comes in difference sizes and shapes and purity because each has it's own utility.

Sakata
25th January 2010, 17:57
A month ago I mailed 18 100 oz to Golden State Mint for conversion to 1 oz rounds. That's about 56kg.

I am really curious to know why anyone would do this.
You paid a spread to buy the 100 oz. bars. You also paid to ship them originally.
Now you paid again to ship them back plus 0.85/oz. to convert them.

Why?
I can understand that those Incuse Indian Head Coins Are Great Looking, but...Is there really that much bad sentiment against the "liquidity" of 100 oz. bars?---If you bought these bars at lower prices, you had a profit in them. Why throw maybe $1/oz. away? Silver is silver.

Well, first of all, I did not pay to ship them originally. I bought enough at one time I got free shipping.

Second, the premium I paid on the 100 oz bars was about $0.50 because I bought them quite some time ago.

Third, if you read my post I said $0.85 including all shipping and insurance. That was both ways.

So altogether I have paid about $1.35 and ounce above a spot price which was much lower than today's spot. I just checked www.24Gold.com to see the current EBay premiums are: $1.25/oz for 100oz bars but $3.73 for 1oz rounds. Right away this is a $2.47 spread and so I am $1.12 ahead.

And, this is the most important to me, the spreads are probably only going to increase as the price goes up, but so is the conversion cost. When silver gets to $100/oz selling a big bar will require someone with $10,000 available. Selling 100 small bars will be much easier.

TheLoneRanger
25th January 2010, 18:00
who asked you?
Now...since you posted I am a jerk, I'll answer.
Since when are 100 oz. bars illiquid?
Why not take them to a coin dealer and trade them for rounds?

My dealer wouldn't charge 0.85 for the transaction, why would anyone else?
0.85 plus shipping has got to be more than $1 spread.
Ridiculous.
Like I said, unless there's some real interest in golden gate coin incuse indian head rounds...why all the trouble to ship them and pay conversion fees.

BTW---You post like you're the all-knowing sooth around here and I admit you helped me with my war nickels, but you advised me to sell them...I'm glad I didn't, their value is higher and all I would have done was add transaction costs to my purchase.

Public post on a public forum.. so the "who asked me" is kinda moot.. you did in the common usage and customs for forums.

There is no universal rule of how dealers price or provide customer service.. just because one dealer does things one way doesn't mean any other dealer has to do it that way.. sometimes Libertads are a high premium coin sometimes they are just a round, sometime regular customers get a break , sometimes they don't. As to a specific "why"... why wouldn't a dealer work a trade that ensures he or she achieved an equal profit on the swapped for silver as would have been realized on the swapped out silver? I suspect most would, or try for even a better deal for themselves.. thats business, and covienence or preference does imply a cost to the person recieving the convienence or the preference.

Basing decisions solely on the current premium is as unsound as basing decisions solely on the current spot, If somebody thinks a different form of silver will do better in premium in the foreseable future , then , so long as it will do better than the price of swaping forms either directly or thru fabrication makes sense to them.

Jake I like you, you occasionally make some good points.. your method and style of making them sometimes gets in your own way and you are seldom gentle about making your point.. why would you ask for gentle treatment from others when you so seldom give gentle treatment when you have your say.

I didn't call you a jerk... I said you needed a friend to tell you when you were acting like one.. we have had friendly echanges in the past and I felt
you were acting like one... I did not , in my wildest dreams, ever expect you, of all people, to take umbrage at a direct and less than gentle approach.

I suppose I could coddle you when we disagree if you prefer, but how would I ever know from the way you post that you prefer the gentle sensitive rebuke to a straight up honest sharing of an opinion?

Jake
25th January 2010, 18:19
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maplesilverbug
25th January 2010, 18:24
When silver gets to $100/oz selling a big bar will require someone with $10,000 available.

How old are you, three?
Dude, you'll be long DEAD before silver reaches $100/oz!

MY opinion, cuz I can...shoulda kept the 100s.

TheLoneRanger
25th January 2010, 18:29
BLAH BLAH BLAH
Let's get back to the original question
Why would anyone add cost unneccessarily to their silver purchases?
That was the question.
The answer is...Who knows?, because you're answering and not the guy who I asked.

Now...you say the dealer probably won't do it unless it's an advantage to them.
Therefore, the disadvantage goes to the guy who trades in the 100 oz. bars.
I asked, Why would anyone do this?
I already know that it's not a good idea---I just wanted to know if I missed anything, and you babble on and on about "each silver holder has his own resons"
You think I don't know that?
But there is still the argument of the best possible deal.
If you add cost to your purchases, there's gotta be a reason.
And I can't believe 100 oz. bars add, or will add, any less liquidity to a diversified portfolio of metals than rounds unless you have no other forms of silver.

And I didn't "take umbrage" at anything you said ---Who Cares?
I didn't ask you for gentle treatment because I didn't ask you anything.
Who cares if there's "Gentle Treatment"?
Anything harsh in my original Question?
NO
I asked this guy why he would do this.
I honestly could not figure out why.
I didn't need "all knowing" sooth-sayers like you to answer it.
And BTW you didn't answer it.

I thought I did.. what exactly do you feel was left unanswered?

Jake
25th January 2010, 18:58
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Sakata
25th January 2010, 19:42
Notice I didn't add in the shipping costs to ship them to Golden State Mint.) Was it $50?

There is absolutely no point in trying to hold a discussion with someone who doesn't even try to read what I wrote. I have been very clear, on two occasions, that I paid no shipping to send the silver to the mint. If you don't listen to this, then you won't listen to anything else I say. Don't expect another response.

Jake
25th January 2010, 19:46
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maplesilverbug
25th January 2010, 19:47
Doesn't matter, either way your belief is costing you silver.

Jake
25th January 2010, 19:56
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maplesilverbug
25th January 2010, 21:00
We better ambush those guys with the burros comin' down that mountain carrying those sacks of flower!

That dude has a sweet poncho-vest!

(Is it just me or...when did Russell Crowe and Anthony Hopkins make a Mexican western??? Bet it slipped under the Oscar radar...)

Gino
25th January 2010, 21:21
BTW: If silver goes to $100/oz., it'll cost $10,000 to go to the movies.

If silver goes to $100/oz . . . we won't need no stinkin' movies!

Burticus
25th January 2010, 22:54
10. More than 10 percent is too much of a good thing.

No matter how good the market looks-or how worried you are about the future of civilized society-you must always remember that silver should make up only a small portion of a well-diversified portfolio.

Under the current economic conditions, I feel 20-25% is more appropriate...

Sure AL, diversification is one of the basics of investing. But these days, what else is a no-brainer sure thing besides silver and gold? Domestic stocks are now overpriced, hard to pick and ready for the next crash. Even mining share prices can drop with the broader equities market, as seen in 2008. Bonds and Treasuries are the biggest bubble in history, begging for a pin. Real estate prices will not reach an intermediate bottom until at least 2013 or 2015 and gubmint rents (property taxes) and insurance make it even more unattractive. Paper/electron currencies all return to their intrinsic value of zero.

Sure, I make some quick profits on side bets, like the recent rise in oil from 35 to 80 FeRNs, but we can't store six figures of oil or grains, which forces us to use paper - futures, options, ETFs, etc. These are not safe long-term holds, since such paper & electrons will eventually get vaporized by counter-party, sovereign default & currency risk when the quadrillion-dollar derivatives death star implodes.

Since 2008, my only "diversification" (besides my home, steel & lead and stored food) has been different types of physical silver and gold - in the monstrosity gun safe, Central Fund of Canada (liquid & outside USSA), GoldStar Trust IRA and GoldMoney (Swiss vault).

Give me some better choices for preserving wealth over the long term and I will listen, ardently.

DaleFromCalgary
26th January 2010, 10:56
"If silver goes to $100/oz., it'll cost $10,000 to go to the movies."

A better comparison would be the cost of a pizza. A large deluxe with extra toppings and a 2-litre bottle of Coke costs about 1 ounce of silver in Calgary, or about C$21. If silver goes to $100, we can expect to pay about that for a pizza, not to mention $10 for a loaf of bread and $5 for a litre of milk.

Sakata
26th January 2010, 11:22
All these people quoting me on $100/oz silver is really amusing me. I was trying to use it as an example of "you'll find out what really happens when silver gets much higher than it is now".

Having said that, even though I don't expect $100 silver I certainly would not be shocked if it happened at some point because the historic G/S ratio is much, much lower than at present and there are many people out there calling for a gold-to-Dow of 1 before this is all over. Plug that in at Dow=Gold=3000 and it only takes a drop to 30 in the G/S ratio.

Farfetch? Maybe. Impossible? Definitely not.

akak
26th January 2010, 13:13
All these people quoting me on $100/oz silver is really amusing me. I was trying to use it as an example of "you'll find out what really happens when silver gets much higher than it is now".

Having said that, even though I don't expect $100 silver I certainly would not be shocked if it happened at some point because the historic G/S ratio is much, much lower than at present and there are many people out there calling for a gold-to-Dow of 1 before this is all over. Plug that in at Dow=Gold=3000 and it only takes a drop to 30 in the G/S ratio.

Farfetch? Maybe. Impossible? Definitely not.


On the contrary, Sakata ---- $100 silver WILL happen, absolutely guaranteed, without any doubt whatsoever. It is just a matter of when. To suggest otherwise is to imply that the inexorable and ongoing depreciation of our fiat currencies is some day going to come to an end. Do you really believe that? I don't!

DaBrownsRPhat
26th January 2010, 13:48
On the contrary, Sakata ---- $100 silver WILL happen, absolutely guaranteed, without any doubt whatsoever. It is just a matter of when. To suggest otherwise is to imply that the inexorable and ongoing depreciation of our fiat currencies is some day going to come to an end. Do you really believe that? I don't!

Yeah and when people say the dolar is going up, of course look at the measure as you know.

If I compare a pile of crap that has been sprayed with perfume to regular crap, it may seem better but it is still crap.

What is Truth?
26th January 2010, 18:56
On the contrary, Sakata ---- $100 silver WILL happen, absolutely guaranteed, without any doubt whatsoever. It is just a matter of when. To suggest otherwise is to imply that the inexorable and ongoing depreciation of our fiat currencies is some day going to come to an end. Do you really believe that? I don't!

When clad U.S. coinage was introduced in 1964 president LBJ said that the then current 90% silver coins would continue to circulate along with the new clad coins. And many or even most people really believed him. Now I'm not saying today you can't find an rare silver dime in circulation that was has been missed, but fiat currency is designed to inflate. If it doesn't, as in a fiat deflation, the economy as we know it shuts down.


So true, as inflation grows the price of silver will one day reach at least $100. But so will a gallon of gas or a McDonald's cheeseburger.


But what many of us hope to see is silver go to $100 in today's buying power due to its industrial value to society and not because of it trying to keep up with inflation.

Sakata
26th January 2010, 19:28
So true, as inflation grows the price of silver will one day reach at least $100. But so will a gallon of gas or a McDonald's cheeseburger.

But what many of us hope to see is silver go to $100 in today's buying power due to its industrial value to society and not because of it trying to keep up with inflation.

That is what I was referring to when I wrote my original comment. What use is silver if it will only buy the same as it does today - which is not even as much as it did 100 year ago I am guessing. My hope is the silver will buy more in the future that it does now because of the increased industrial demand and reduce prodution. I might be a silver bull but not because just because I have no faith in fiat currency - JPM & Co. are proving that that alone is not sufficient.

SilverMeTimbers
26th January 2010, 20:50
That is what I was referring to when I wrote my original comment. What use is silver if it will only buy the same as it does today - which is not even as much as it did 100 year ago I am guessing. My hope is the silver will buy more in the future that it does now because of the increased industrial demand and reduce prodution. I might be a silver bull but not because just because I have no faith in fiat currency - JPM & Co. are proving that that alone is not sufficient.

Absolutely! I just can't buy a $100 per oz to $100 pizza ratio. The industrial uses for silver grow each year (used and done like oil) and add to that increasing numbers of people like us, the supply of silver coming out of the ground, and God knows what else that comes down the pike with economic cycles and stuff like this:

http://dailyreckoning.com/watch-this-breakthrough-tech/

Fun stuff actually.

Jake
27th January 2010, 12:24
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