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JaySpizzy
22nd September 2008, 18:45
I dunno guys, looks a little dark ahead if you ask me. The Dow is 300pts down, despite the Treasury's fake out plan, and metals are not giving an inch. There's much less ammo for the PTB to change the winds if the market decides to go down now. For the first time, Ira Epstein actually looks a little scared in his daily futures video.

http://www.24hgold.com/viewarticle.aspx?rss=true&langue=en&articleid=319340_History+Unfolds+As+Life+Goes+On+A s+Usual
From Warren Bevan:

" The public still does not get it. The actions taken recently and under consideration now are inflationary to a degree the west has not experienced. While the governments throw good money after bad to save the financials they are creating another problem whereby hedge funds who play trends are going to get squeezed by the unfair halting of shorting. This viscous circle can only end in mass inflation and eventually panic into gold and silver. Where the line will be drawn on who to save and who to let fail is yet to be seen. If the Paulson plan is approved I fear for Americans, who will be herded into socialism and not even know it. Many feel it is already there, I am in that camp."

"While the thought of protecting yourself and prepping for survival has yet to grip the populous, some are prepared or can see what is very likely coming. I urge you to have some food, water, possibly firearms and physical metal stored nearby in case this nightmare sees the light of day. I am not promoting scaremongering but it’s certainly better to be safe than sorry."

Kelly
22nd September 2008, 19:18
While the governments throw good money after bad to save the financials they are creating another problem whereby hedge funds who play trends are going to get squeezed by the unfair halting of shorting.

I've seen this reference to the "unfair halting of shorting" several times now, and perhaps I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the new SEC rules absolutely did NOT halt shorting. What they did was halt NAKED shorting, which in itself is an extremely high risk play. Part of the reason so many of these "derivitives" and "hedge fund plays" were going broke is very likely due to the fact that they were getting margin calls from being caught in a naked short play.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but there is a big difference between "halting shorting" and putting a stop to naked short plays.

JaySpizzy
22nd September 2008, 19:41
I've seen this reference to the "unfair halting of shorting" several times now, and perhaps I am wrong, but it was my understanding that the new SEC rules absolutely did NOT halt shorting. What they did was halt NAKED shorting, which in itself is an extremely high risk play. Part of the reason so many of these "derivitives" and "hedge fund plays" were going broke is very likely due to the fact that they were getting margin calls from being caught in a naked short play.

Do correct me if I am wrong, but there is a big difference between "halting shorting" and putting a stop to naked short plays.

That's the crazy part about it, Kelly: They are just all out banning short-selling (whether you control the underlying stock or not) of over 800 financial companies until October 2. Check this release from their website:
http://www.sec.gov/news/press/2008/2008-211.htm

They are not doing it to protect the investors, but to avoid the punishment that the market gives companies that have made bad decisions, and are therefore in a weak position. In this case, i feel they are doing it to avoid an immediate meltdown and loss of confidence in the system. But the question is:
Does the system deserve confidence?

nuslvrkwen
22nd September 2008, 19:56
That short trading list is a trip. There are companies that WANT to be on it, to keep their positions from getting weaker by others trading their stock price up or down while they get hold of or hold on to cash stores they have. Then there are the hedge funds that were set up to trade on price trends that want to be OFF the list so they can continue doing their business without extra paper work!

Neither halts naked short trading! Naked shorts can be found out after the fact, and it's my understanding the PTB are just starting to figure that out!

Kelly
22nd September 2008, 19:57
Well, I stand corrected then!

What they are doing is unprecedented, and you are absolutely correct, it is the act of rigging the market so that financial institutions which have made very bad decisions are protected from having their stocks drop.

I simply cannot believe that every talking head isn't screaming from the roof top, "the free market is a sham!"

Trvlr45
22nd September 2008, 23:31
They are doing precisely what they did in 1929 which is why they refealed the Glass/Seagul Act back in 1999 when they knew this was coming. They have now gotten rid og the uptick rule and short selling which although they can be bad they are also indicators of how the market is doing.

They are now going to "fix" the problem the exact same way they did in the depression. I can see huge tax increases coming our way after the election. High interest rates. the whole nine yards. The dirtbags that caused this, again, won't lose a penny.

What's worse? They have shut off our supply of energy under the guise of "saving the planet" and moved our manufacturing base overseas. We spend 700 billion a year buying oil from our enemies when we have as much here as Saudi Arabia while Saudi Arabia and others,I'm sure, take that money and fund groups like Green Peace to keep us from using our own natural resources.

When we get through this "depression" we will emerge not even owning our own country because what they have done is de-valued everything in it so the international community can come in and buy it up for pennies on the dollar. Our national park system is already controlled by the UN and Budweiser and National Beef were just auctioned off to Brazil. The Indiana Turnpike and the Chicago "Flyover" are owned by Spain and Rendell in PA wants to auction off the PA Turmpike probably to Spain.

And that is just the beginning. I'm sure there is more that I don't even know about. I'm so glad we are saving the planet.

JaySpizzy
23rd September 2008, 07:21
That short trading list is a trip. There are companies that WANT to be on it, to keep their positions from getting weaker by others trading their stock price up or down while they get hold of or hold on to cash stores they have. Then there are the hedge funds that were set up to trade on price trends that want to be OFF the list so they can continue doing their business without extra paper work!

Neither halts naked short trading! Naked shorts can be found out after the fact, and it's my understanding the PTB are just starting to figure that out!

I'm learning that the SEC is just like the FED, a sham operation that is playing the role of protecting citizens and promoting free market, when they are really involved in crafting a playing field that destroys america and benefits a power elite.

If Americans don't get angry now, they will never get angry. Like the quote said, many do not "get it". What kind of soporific spell are we under anyway? The only thing we want to do is bury ourselves back in "life as usual".

Last week we are told that we came a hair's breath away from a financial meltdown. This I believe was purposefully allowed so that we could adopt the new measures suggested by the treasury (kind of like 911 facilitated the subsequent war).

Where is the Outrage?

Kelly
23rd September 2008, 10:14
I am in total agreement with you JaySpizzy.

If hindsight is 20/20 then I have to wonder, particularly after the last six months of what has happened in both the PM market and the DOW if the SEC and the CFTC wasn't just taking their orders from the Fed all along.

Both of them elected to do absolutely nothing about obvious market abuses until it was too late and the problem was critical. It seems like the whole thing was set up long ago for the purpose of giving the Fed the ultimate power they have been asking for now for months. And this includes the crisis in housing market as well.

If this bail out happens the Fed's way, I seriously doubt that they are ever going to want to give any of their new-found power back. I think they are going to scam their way into making it permenant.

And that really scares the hell out of me.

Kelly
23rd September 2008, 10:29
When we get through this "depression" we will emerge not even owning our own country because what they have done is de-valued everything in it so the international community can come in and buy it up for pennies on the dollar. Our national park system is already controlled by the UN and Budweiser and National Beef were just auctioned off to Brazil. The Indiana Turnpike and the Chicago "Flyover" are owned by Spain and Rendell in PA wants to auction off the PA Turmpike probably to Spain.


Exactly! What is worse is the fact that they have been selling off our American businesses to foreign corporate interest for years and years now. The American people still think that for the most part Americans still own America, and that is anything but the truth.

I'd love to see a full and detailed list of all the companies, parks and supposedly "public" hiways that are now the property of someone from another country. If this keeps up, it will be as our forefather's warned us; we will be nothing but serfs in the country Americans have fought and died for.

nayoibi
23rd September 2008, 11:18
Exactly! What is worse is the fact that they have been selling off our American businesses to foreign corporate interest for years and years now. The American people still think that for the most part Americans still own America, and that is anything but the truth.

I'd love to see a full and detailed list of all the companies, parks and supposedly "public" hiways that are now the property of someone from another country. If this keeps up, it will be as our forefather's warned us; we will be nothing but serfs in the country Americans have fought and died for. I am sorry to inform that it is already so . Our port authorities are already owned by foreign countries , what could go wrong , there ? Our local port is owned by the Koreans , others are owned by other countries . The major businesses in town I live in used to be owned by moms and pops , now owned by corporations based in other countries . Roads , bridges , parks , everything is for sale . I wrote every representative of our government 7 years ago complaining about the high level theft that was going on . The coffers of America were siphoned off the moment dubya stepped into the oval office . The real problem is that happy capitalists do not care and look forward to being happy capitalists in a new global world order . They are not careful for what they wish for , I have serious doubt that anybody will be happy with the results .

FedFixNix
23rd September 2008, 11:52
I am sorry to inform that it is already so . Our port authorities are already owned by foreign countries , what could go wrong , there ? Our local port is owned by the Koreans , others are owned by other countries . The major businesses in town I live in used to be owned by moms and pops , now owned by corporations based in other countries . Roads , bridges , parks , everything is for sale . I wrote every representative of our government 7 years ago complaining about the high level theft that was going on . The coffers of America were siphoned off the moment dubya stepped into the oval office . The real problem is that happy capitalists do not care and look forward to being happy capitalists in a new global world order . They are not careful for what they wish for , I have serious doubt that anybody will be happy with the results .

But some will be happier than others... for a little while. Trillionaires can afford to be happy anywhere they choose to live, even Uruguay or Paraguay ;)

But you are totally right on the main point. "Deregulation" is just another way of saying let the wolves and and sheep argue over what's for dinner. We are very deservedly being eaten alive by those we have repeatedly voted into office, and will continue to do so.

When the sheeple finally wake up and get angry enough to take action, they will be conned into taking the worong actions against the wrong people.

Just take the blue pill and go on back to sleep. Nothing to see here. Move along....

FedFixNix
23rd September 2008, 11:57
I am in total agreement with you JaySpizzy.

If hindsight is 20/20 then I have to wonder, particularly after the last six months of what has happened in both the PM market and the DOW if the SEC and the CFTC wasn't just taking their orders from the Fed all along.

Both of them elected to do absolutely nothing about obvious market abuses until it was too late and the problem was critical. It seems like the whole thing was set up long ago for the purpose of giving the Fed the ultimate power they have been asking for now for months. And this includes the crisis in housing market as well.

If this bail out happens the Fed's way, I seriously doubt that they are ever going to want to give any of their new-found power back. I think they are going to scam their way into making it permenant.

And that really scares the hell out of me.

This really disappoints me Kelly...

... really.

The scams are already permanent, and we have been and will continue to be conned into voting to pay for our prisons, build them with our labor, hire and pay our keepers and executioners, and then take the blame for causing it all to happen.

Even one as bright and informed as you generally are appear naive at time, and this is one of them.

nayoibi
23rd September 2008, 12:11
But some will be happier than others... for a little while. Trillionaires can afford to be happy anywhere they choose to live, even Uruguay or Paraguay ;)

But you are totally right on the main point. "Deregulation" is just another way of saying let the wolves and and sheep argue over what's for dinner. We are very deservedly being eaten alive by those we have repeatedly voted into office, and will continue to do so.

When the sheeple finally wake up and get angry enough to take action, they will be conned into taking the worong actions against the wrong people.

Just take the blue pill and go on back to sleep. Nothing to see here. Move along.... Here is the clincher and the real truth of everything THERE IS NO NEW WORLD ORDER ! It is a fairytale , a myth , a hoax ,obscurantism in its finest moment . It is the OLD WORLD ORDER of pharaohs and slaves renamed repackaged and sold to you in a new box . It is a lie . I would bet that if someone were to check it out , the number of humans the NWO claims would be the 'right' amount on this earth is most likely the same amount that populated the world back in ancient Egypt (or Babylonia). There is no new world order ! It is the old world order being forced upon us . wake up ! Out of order = comes chaos.

Kelly
23rd September 2008, 12:30
Here is the clincher and the real truth of everything THERE IS NO NEW WORLD ORDER ! It is a fairytale , a myth , a hoax ,obscurantism in its finest moment . It is the OLD WORLD ORDER of pharaohs and slaves renamed repackaged and sold to you in a new box . It is a lie . I would bet that if someone were to check it out , the number of humans the NWO claims would be the 'right' amount on this earth is most likely the same amount that populated the world back in ancient Egypt (or Babylonia). There is no new world order ! It is the old world order being forced upon us . wake up ! Out of order = comes chaos.

Excellent point, Nayoibi! If people could actually track the family lines of the International Bankers back through history, they would indeed find that they lead right back to "the gods" of Egypt, Babylonia, Canaan and Sumer. It is an illusion to suppose that the gods of antiquity were not men, for men is indeed all they were! By 2500 BC, regardless of which ancient civilization one studies, the dynastic ruling families had deified themselves as "gods" who exercised control over "the sheep." In fact, the word "god" may have actually originated as a term for a political leader.

However, it is pertinent to also point out that we can now track the ruling dynasties of Egypt, Sumer and Babylonia back to the ancient Hindu family dynasties of Aryan India who invaded the Middle East. As the melt down of the last ice age began at the time of Indra, (see the Rig Veda,) the ruling solar and lunar dynasties of ancient India set up the Aryan caste system, and then, through their Merchant Marine fleet (known historically as the Phoenicians) spread their ancient "New World Order" around the world.

What is happening today is indeed but the mere continuance of that ancient program for world control and it is one that every secret society on the face of the earth has promoted in stealth since antiquity.

There is no "New World Order" and no "New Age" movement. It all leads directly back to the Aryan dynastic program that was started in Ancient India.

FedFixNix
23rd September 2008, 14:19
assuming everything you write above is true (and most, at least some, of it is) ...

... how does any of it relate to what actions we need to take today?

Same thing for Nayoibi?

What is happening today is certainly an extension of what happened in the past ....

... but is is NOT the same.

It is never the same.

Next I will be hearing from someone that Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy and the axis powers were all the same as the Roman Empire, or the Persian Empire, or the Babylonian.

What's the purpose? Why split hairs over semantics?

nayoibi
23rd September 2008, 14:40
assuming everything you write above is true (and most, at least some, of it is) ...

... how does any of it relate to what actions we need to take today?

Same thing for Nayoibi?

What is happening today is certainly an extension of what happened in the past ....

... but is is NOT the same.

It is never the same.

Next I will be hearing from someone that Nazi Germany and Fascist Italy and the axis powers were all the same as the Roman Empire, or the Persian Empire, or the Babylonian.

What's the purpose? Why split hairs over semantics? That is what I have endeavored to avoid-semantics . I think it is safe to just lump it together as in ; master and slave . A return to a monetary system backed by tangible assets , is an action we need to take today . Energy is the big kahuna and I think it is too soon to go all the way whacky with uranium (it is a raging bull everyone wants to get rich off of) uranium is not cost effective to refine ,it takes too much blue gold . No one has found a way to make it 'clean' or has any idea how to return it to the earth non-toxically . Hydrogen (altho combustible) is wisdom and good for living things it can be extracted by solar means and refined and stored safely in palladium. It is found naturally in blue-green algae and was the stuff that manna was made from. Hydrogen does not make the capitalists happy......I came for the metal.....

FedFixNix
23rd September 2008, 14:49
That is what I have endeavored to avoid-semantics . I think it is safe to just lump it together as in ; master and slave . A return to a monetary system backed by tangible assets , is an action we need to take today . Energy is the big kahuna and I think it is too soon to go all the way whacky with uranium (it is a raging bull everyone wants to get rich off of) uranium is not cost effective to refine ,it takes too much blue gold . No one has found a way to make it 'clean' or has any idea how to return it to the earth non-toxically . Hydrogen (altho combustible) is wisdom and good for living things it can be extracted by solar means and refined and stored safely in palladium. It is found naturally in blue-green algae and was the stuff that manna was made from. Hydrogen does not make the capitalists happy......I came for the metal.....

A return to a monetary system backed by tangible assets at this point in history would be the worst calamity for the greatest number of people that you could possibly imagine!

I'm here for the metal too, because it is a form of wealth. It is NOT money. Thinking it so is what got us here in the first place.

I could care less what makes "capitalists happy". Destroying our world and most of its people seems to make them the happiest.

Does that make YOU happy?

Kelly
23rd September 2008, 15:04
... how does any of it relate to what actions we need to take today?

Actually, I think it's VERY important for people to realize that TODAY is just a remake of the very same programs that have existed forever. It relates because regardless of how that program looks on the surface as it relates to any particular age, it has ALWAYS placed and will continue to place the same family dynasties in power that have been running the show for millennia.

Until the people of the world recognize that fact and understand that this has been an ongoing process for thousands of years, we tend to present solutions that are at best merely a slowdown for the elitists, yet they offer no real solution in the long term.

I think there is a great deal of truth to that old adage that "history repeats itself until we learn from it." And what I have learned from my 35 years of study is that in all civilizations, the very same families have ultimately regrouped and taken control over and over again.

So the lesson I have learned is that regardless of the solution we put forth, that solution MUST make provisions to realistically put an end to these family dynasty's stranglehold of power.

That power begins with their mind-boggling wealth. As hard as it sounds, I would not personally hesitate to nationalize the private bank accounts and vaults of every single major banking family out there. I would take back every single dime they have stolen from the people through their banking programs and put that money and gold in a national trust for the people.

I would make certain that their progeny and descendants were left penniless, because until we do that, those same dynasties will continue to use their family fortunes as a means to accumulate more and more power.

I would not elect to do that out of hatred or out of a desire to get even. I would do that simply because I think that until we do, any solution we attempt will be brought to no avail again and again by the very same elitist families.

We have to take away their power, and that won't happen until those families are left without their family fortunes.

I'm hard core about it and dead serious too.

In other words, I think no amount of reform or regulation will stop the Rothschilds and the Rockefellers (etc.). The only thing that will stop them is making sure they and their descendants are left flat broke.

Trvlr45
23rd September 2008, 15:30
The real problem is that happy capitalists do not care and look forward to being happy capitalists in a new global world order . They are not careful for what they wish for , I have serious doubt that anybody will be happy with the results .

This is precisely whu I don't support the Republican Party anymore. They could care less who owns what as long as that portfolio gets bigger. It's a shame that, just like the democrats, the supporters of the party don't see what is happening.

nayoibi
23rd September 2008, 15:50
A return to a monetary system backed by tangible assets at this point in history would be the worst calamity for the greatest number of people that you could possibly imagine!

I'm here for the metal too, because it is a form of wealth. It is NOT money. Thinking it so is what got us here in the first place.

I could care less what makes "capitalists happy". Destroying our world and most of its people seems to make them the happiest.

Does that make YOU happy? No , Fed , it does not make me happy . If it did , I would dig up a few thousand dollars or so and invest in yellow cake uranium , shut my big mouth and wait for the dividends. I am tempted but unfortunately I am all too aware that when it comes to destroying this earth , nuclear weapons and nuclear energy will have the starring roles in the big show . So , I must ask myself , do I want to be part of the problem and rich ? or be just one more vulnerable poor rat swimming ? My conscience dictates that I am going to need a large surplus of cheese and some damn good water wings . This forum also hosts a forum on gold and uranium , you and Kelly and I are smack dab in the middle of capitalist happy land , a cyber disneyworld , this is their house and we are merely guests in their house . Please remove your shoes at the door before entering .

Kelly
23rd September 2008, 17:09
This forum also hosts a forum on gold and uranium , you and Kelly and I are smack dab in the middle of capitalist happy land , a cyber disneyworld , this is their house and we are merely guests in their house . Please remove your shoes at the door before entering.

Well, I have no intention of removing my shoes. I am, in fact, far more inclined to lace on a pair of steel-toed heavy duty work boots because I feel like kicking some ass.

I might, in fact, make a public plea to all the hackers of the world who have divested so many Americans of our credit and identities and ask them to do something far more useful with their curious talents instead. Hacking into the bank accounts of everyday Americans in order to divest them of their hard earned dollars seems like such a poor and paltry affair for the cyber genius's of the world. There is, in fact, no true glory in it, and it is hardly a cause worthy of acclaim.

How much better it would be if those brilliant young hackers did something useful with their talents instead and hacked into the private bank accounts of the international bankers who are behind this sad, sick and sordid bailout affair. Divest THOSE families of the wealth that they have stolen by charging interest on money made out of thin air. Take every dime they have and I truly suspect those hackers would immediately be promoted to the status of national heroes and warriors for the cause.

Rather than weep and mourn our fate as but the mere peons of the world, instead let us make a 10 minute video, post it on youtube and BEG those hackers to hunt down the accounts of the elitist banking families and simply wipe them out.

There are kids out there today that are just as smart and ticked off about what is going on as we are and those young'uns know so much more than we do about breaking through firewalls and security.

So let's draft some young warriors who'd like to be heroes and maybe, just maybe those kids will be able to do what all of us put together haven't been able to do to date.

Until somebody can actually break the banking families, and I mean REALLY leave them just flat broke, all the monetary reform and hope for new regulations is little more than a pipe dream. As long as the banksters still have access to their family wealth, they will go right on hiring the lobbyists and paying off congress and nations to do their will. They have been doing so forever.

We have to break the bankster families first if we want reform to work.

So let us declare war on them, and look for some young hackers who, like many good young warriors throughout history, have a true desire to become national heroes.

Why mess around with it? Let's just kick some butt…

Isn't that what made America great in the first place?

nayoibi
23rd September 2008, 17:18
Well, I have no intention of removing my shoes. I am, in fact, far more inclined to lace on a pair of steel-toed heavy duty work boots because I feel like kicking some ass.

I might, in fact, make a public plea to all the hackers of the world who have divested so many Americans of our credit and identities and ask them to do something far more useful with their curious talents instead. Hacking into the bank accounts of everyday Americans in order to divest them of their hard earned dollars seems like such a poor and paltry affair for the cyber genius's of the world. There is, in fact, no true glory in it, and it is hardly a cause worthy of acclaim.

How much better it would be if those brilliant young hackers did something useful with their talents instead and hacked into the private bank accounts of the international bankers who are behind this sad, sick and sordid bailout affair. Divest THOSE families of the wealth that they have stolen by charging interest on money made out of thin air. Take every dime they have and I truly suspect those hackers would immediately be promoted to the status of national heroes and warriors for the cause.

Rather than weep and mourn our fate as but the mere peons of the world, instead let us make a 10 minute video, post it on youtube and BEG those hackers to hunt down the accounts of the elitist banking families and simply wipe them out.

There are kids out there today that are just as smart and ticked off about what is going on as we are and those young'uns know so much more than we do about breaking through firewalls and security.

So let's draft some young warriors who'd like to be heroes and maybe, just maybe those kids will be able to do what all of us put together haven't been able to do to date.

Until somebody can actually break the banking families, and I mean REALLY leave them just flat broke, all the monetary reform and hope for new regulations is little more than a pipe dream. As long as the banksters still have access to their family wealth, they will go right on hiring the lobbyists and paying off congress and nations to do their will. They have been doing so forever.

We have to break the bankster families first if we want reform to work.

So let us declare war on them, and look for some young hackers who, like many good young warriors throughout history, have a true desire to become national heroes.

Why mess around with it? Let's just kick some butt…

Isn't that what made America great in the first place? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AEU8iskjWd4 saltwater fuel-cool !