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View Full Version : Hey.....our own trading platform



cdavport
18th September 2008, 01:12
I can't sleep, so I lie here figuring on a silver angle. We are a good group, right? We got lots of silver, right? Some of us want to buy, some of us are forced to sell, are for some crazy reason want to sell. So why don't we do this amongst ourselves. We dont need BD, APmex, Ebay, or anyone else to redistribute our silver. We just set us a trading system, like BD, with those that have something to sell, and those who are wanting to buy. This part is simple. Now for the honesty part. We need a way to safely ship our PM, knowing that we will for sure receive payment. Man, did I come up with an idea!!. I live in Texas, about halfway between west and east coast. All of you traders could send me your money. Once convinced that PM has been delivered, I send payment. (less a small 30 percent processing fee of course). What do you guys think? lol

Renegade
18th September 2008, 01:38
yeah, great idea,,,,whats your address and SSN

Kelly
18th September 2008, 01:54
Actually, I think that is a great idea.

All we'd have to do is keep a single thread alive named something like "trading platform" and anytime somebody had some silver they wanted to sell, they could simply announce what they have and say "open for silent bids" and a "bidding ends" date, and then everybody who is interested could private message them with their bid.

Once the bidding was over, the particulars could be worked out privately.

After all, we are all friends, and with silver this scarce, when somebody sells, we might as well keep it among friends.

Raven
18th September 2008, 12:01
I believe someone here was actually working on something like that...My guess would be we need paypal support for the actual transactions for obvious safty reasons.:cool:

Kelly
18th September 2008, 12:32
I believe someone here was actually working on something like that...My guess would be we need paypal support for the actual transactions for obvious safty reasons.:cool:

#1) This website is not set up for Paypal. #2) There is NOTHING "safe" about Paypal. Their underpaid employees regularly steal customer account information in huge quantities. Just do a search on Paypal and look at the number of lawsuits they have against them.

Earlier this summer, I suddenly got e-mailed paypal reciepts for over $400 in purchases when I had not used my Paypal account for at least 3 months. Curiously, it would seem I made these purchases from Lithuania, and I can assure you, I've never set foot in that country. I immediately e-mailed Paypal and they eventually agreed that I had not made these purchases and refunded my account, never-the-less it was a lesson I'm not likely to forget anytime soon.

In setting up our own trading platform, all anybody has to do is send the seller a check or a money order. Addresses can be PM'd back and forth. When the check clears the bank, the silver will be sent. Keep it simple, folks.

nuslvrkwen
18th September 2008, 12:51
Exactly Kelly! If we are dealing between ourselves, unless someone stupidly tries to rip off someone they are dealing with - it's better to just deal in money order or paper check. WAMU does free money orders. I'm thinking some other local banks probably do the same. This would be a better way of dealing between people on this forum.

Since I've started posting on this forum there HAVE been a few times when people needed to sell, and it turns out those interested in buying were living close by, or within a few hours drive of one another. The shipment issue wasn't a problem then. This is pretty much how this would work out anyway! Even on this forum the key when you are selling is the speed of cash turn around. We could become sophisticated enough to even 'trade up/or down' with out cash! Each piece of the trade would need to be received. And values would be worked out between traders. So simple facilitation of trading could be something we could put together pretty easily!:eek:

Raven
18th September 2008, 12:55
#1) This website is not set up for Paypal. #2) There is NOTHING "safe" about Paypal. Their underpaid employees regularly steal customer account information in huge quantities. Just do a search on Paypal and look at the number of lawsuits they have against them.

Earlier this summer, I suddenly got e-mailed paypal reciepts for over $400 in purchases when I had not used my Paypal account for at least 3 months. Curiously, it would seem I made these purchases from Lithuania, and I can assure you, I've never set foot in that country. I immediately e-mailed Paypal and they eventually agreed that I had not made these purchases and refunded my account, never-the-less it was a lesson I'm not likely to forget anytime soon.

In setting up our own trading platform, all anybody has to do is send the seller a check or a money order. Addresses can be PM'd back and forth. When the check clears the bank, the silver will be sent. Keep it simple, folks.
Thanks for sharing that info, I wasn't aware it was issue...was just tossing out a general idea.:cool: (Never used paypal before either... Figured everyone else did.)

MetalWorx
18th September 2008, 13:30
...............anything common sense here would be needed. We know who the regular posters are. If some new member came in wanting to sell a bunch of silver I wouldnt bite. (notice the SPAMMERS:rolleyes: FLAG them) same could apply with this kind of trading system. I think that the bids need to be kept in the private massage section, addresses and such too.
There have been posters selling, we could keep it in its own thread. When you sell post it sold or delete your post..??

Kelly
18th September 2008, 13:45
I agree. The only thing the public forum thread should be used for is the announcement that somebody has some silver for sale. Everything else should be PMd and kept private. Although, I would say that for the group's protection, if somebody won the bid and their check bounced, it might be wise to have a list of who those people are. By the same token, if somebody recieved payment for silver and either didn't deliver or in some way falsely represented what they had for sale, those names should be blacklisted as well. Feedback helps to keep it all honest.

This way, we'd all have some protection regardless of whether one was a seller or a buyer. Oh, and it might be fun to post the dollar amount of the winning bid so we all know what the "spot is not" price for the real thing is. Nobody except the seller need know who won the bid, but it'd be interesting to see what things go for.

Just my two cents...

Thoriz
18th September 2008, 13:54
+1.

I'm in favor of having a sales section. I think checks would be sufficient payment. Peer pressure should ensure the rest.

Kelly
18th September 2008, 14:02
Money Orders are good too. They don't need to wait to clear the bank like checks do so the seller can send the silver out the minute he recieves payment by Money Order.

Even with Paypal, most sellers wait at least three days to send the product out because it takes that long to make sure that Paypal actually received the funds from the buyer.

balou2
18th September 2008, 15:21
I emailed the mods and administrators some time ago, re: selling on the forum. Interestingly enough...I got no reply.

digger
18th September 2008, 15:55
Didn't 7aw2tR4 just sell some Roosevelt Dimes in the 'Silver Bullion & Coins' thread? At least he tried. Results unknown.

nuslvrkwen
18th September 2008, 16:18
This is why I suggested the money order as a way of payment. That way everything IS paid for when the seller receives it. The post office sells them for around 75 cents a piece. That's cheaper than a paypal charge for transaction! They don't have to deposit it in their bank for payment to clear. And it keeps the chance of a personal check bounce out of the equation. The person who needs to sell probably needs to do it fairly quickly. And a check bounce would be embarassing for the prospective buyer!

Using the public forum to announce a sale is great! Newbies can view it, but really the seller is only going to want to sell to posters they already know here! That's the beauty of this trading platform! It's cash. Money order, bank drafts can cost more, but this way no one's hung up waiting for checks to clear. AND we can even have those with collector coins or high value 90%s make deals with others to trade! With NO CASH involved hopefully! ALL these types of sales/trades would help set the 'real spot' price too!

We've been watching what the lawmakers are going to do about the manipulation of PMs all this time. This platform would give us a good way to do business among ourselves and compare it to what's going in the futures market! It could very much grow to something like the real open market. Scary as heck ain't it? WE can provide our own financial stability no matter what the rest of the market is doing! METALWORX start your foundry! ;-)

Kelly
18th September 2008, 16:27
Ahh, he doesn't really need a foundry, at least not at first and at least not for a group this small. Heck, Jewelers use acetelene (sp?) torches all the time to melt down silver. You could do it in a garage. Different metals (as in silver alloys) all melt at different temperatures than silver does. And when it's in liquid form, the lighter metals always float to the top, and that's how you can seperate the pure silver from other metals.

Essentially that's what the recylers do too, only they just do it on a much grander scale. We don't have to be big. Sometimes, less is more! ;)

nuslvrkwen
18th September 2008, 17:20
The reason I've been making reference to Metalworx is that he wanted to take silver shot he could buy at less than bullion spot and melt it into some one ounce weights. We were thinking it would help get that size out in the marketplace since it was so hard to locate. Other posters suggested a 5 ounce bar that was the sort of shape where it could be cut in 1 ounce segments to be used for trade. We knew we'd need a copyrighted trade mark and a way to make sure the silver shot's alloy would melt to .999 or .9999 fineness.

Now the big dealers are asking to buy back coins and bullion they sell and paying only up to $3 over spot you can see why if we put those bars out asking for open market prices the enterprise would pay for itself! There's even been other new investors who've purchased bars and rounds that aren't Johnson Matthey, Engelhard, or some well known mint. They are still sought after! So these limited production 'artisanal' bars and rounds pretty much already have a market! After reading about the guy who runs Kitco; his articles about short trades and his giving out mis-information about physical holding - it's clear investors or 'other people' in the market need to step up to the plate and get physical out in the market. Futures trading in general is responsible for PM and other commodity manipulation! If those manufacturer's are also using the futures market to speculate in the hopes of bringing their companies more money - THEY are participating in the market LIKE investment banks NOT manufacturers! THEY are part of the problem NOT the solution!

Small regional manufacturers could stabilize price AND kick some of these world wide distributors/investment bank wannabes in the slats enough to get market reform started without government intervention. Supply and demand would really work. A small minting operation could be flexible enough to get production going and SLOW DOWN production when there really IS a surplus! We already know there ISN'T one!

I'm no longer of the mind we have to sit back patiently waiting for those in business to get this going. It will NEVER happen the way it should if WE in this forum don't help others with these ideas get them going in a legitimate way!

balou2
18th September 2008, 17:29
I actually like the idea of a FS section, but in my experience, it's not as simple as it sounds. People post something, then a string of comments get made, or someone thinks they're "owed" the purchase.... I'm a moderator on another board, and I've seen it all happen. That said, it CAN work, but there are some general rules of conduct that should be followed, yet keeping it as simple as possible. Here is something I wrote for another board. It has proven to be a good guideline. Ultimately, any sale can be as simple as the buyer and seller wish it to be, but no matter how comfortable we all are with each other, nothing is ever guaranteed. Take a look. If folks decide to move forward with a selling section, and would like to use any and/or all of this, feel free to use it, or change it. It's just a resource.
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[hr]

Seller's Exchange FAQ / Reference

[100] Researching and Buying Online
[110] Reading Feedback
[120] Avoiding Fraud on eBay
[130] Buying and Selling in the Seller's Exchange
[140] "Dibs" when Buying and Selling
[150] PayPal Fee Calculator
[160] A Note About Pricing
[170] Shipping Advice
[180] Purchase Agreement Template
[190] Resources if you have a problem with a seller / sale

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[b][100] Researching and Buying Online

OK, this comes from another thread where a new member asked that a piece be written on how to research people buying and selling in our forums. In my opinion, it just wasnít enough to stop there - I thought that it was really important to have something on how to spot fraud on eBay as well was necessary.

A little preface about members of our site in particular: I honestly believe that 99.9% (as in Pure!) of the people on our site are really truly great people. Occasionally, however, there comes along that .11% and you have to know how to spot it in advance. Often time bad deals arenít even a result of a bad person, just poor communication.

Alright, letís get down to the meat of this. I want to start with eBay since they have a lot of their selling policies set in stone and they have a feedback system in place.

Here is what I look for in a seller (and a buyer often). First off- I look at where the item is located. I am not a big fan of purchasing overseas, but I will if the person has a really high positive feedback rating and itís something I canít find elsewhere. (Iím comfortable with anyone with at least 20+ feedback).

When I buy overseas I wonít use money orders or cashierís checks and you shouldnít either. Hereís why. Money orders and cashierís checks, over every other form of payment, offer the least amount of buyer protection. Letís say for the moment that whomever you are dealing with is a scammer and takes your money. With a CC you can refute the charge after the fact and you are protected. You can even do this with PayPal (using buyer protection), but you canít do this with a MO or Cashierís Check. Sure you can try and have them stopped, but rarely does that happen before they are already cashed and long gone with your money by the time you realize there is a big problem. I apply basically these same rules even when buying in the states, however I generally donít have too big of a problem using a MO if itís under 100 bucks. This is just my personal opinion, when engaging in overseas sales.

[hr]

[b][110] Reading Feedback

For some reason, and Iíll never understand why, people seem to often only glance at a sellerís feedback rating from the auction page. I will NEVER get this. You need to click on the number and see how many positive negative and neutral the person has relative to the number of auctions they have. For example, itís not unnatural for someone who has 100 or so auctions up at a time to have a few negative remarks, no matter how good of a business person they are. Some buyers are just schmucks. However, this shouldnít make up for even a remotely big percentage of their feedback. They should be sporadic and seem somewhat out of place. Use your judgment.

When reviewing an individual sellerís feedback (not a store or someone who has been running tons of auctions) you need to be careful about how much negative feedback there is and also how many neutrals there are. The first thing I look at on every sellerís feedback are the negatives. Call me a pessimist, but how the seller handles a negative transaction is going to tell you a lot more about a seller than how they handle a positive transaction. Do the comments reflect professionalism? Does the person leaving the initial negative feedback (the buyer) seem to have left a lot of negative feedback? Is the buyer who left negative feedback still registered? Look closely and take your time reading about people leaving negative feedback and also what kind of items people are leaving negative feedback upon? Are those items similar to what you are bidding on? If they are you might want to be a bit more cautious.

Side note:

This is a pet peeve of mine with eBay. If people are no longer registered because they have been booted off eBay for violations of their terms of service, then in my humble opinion, any negative feedback they have left should be wiped from peopleís records. Thatís just a personal thing, however, and thatís up for debate.

[hr]

[120] Avoiding Fraud on eBay and Other Online Transactions

Up till now Iíve mostly been talking about avoiding bad sellers, but this is aimed at a particular group of people committing fraud on eBay these days. There are two types of fraud affecting eBay, so Iím noticing.
First, there are stolen accounts. People steal someone elseís account and post listings using their positive feedback as a guise for selling whatever they need to sell. There are generally two easy steps to figure out if this is going on. First, look through the sellers completed auction history. (if you go to search and search by the sellerís name there is a box to check so you can see all their auctions completed in the last 30 days). Do the items look similar to what they have been selling in the past?

A hypothetical to explain what Iím saying: You are playing on eBay one day and you search for "100oz Engelhard Bar". And you come upon this listing with a price that seems too good to be true and has just been listed. First off, any price that seems too good to be true, unless there is a mistake in the listing on eBay, definitely is. Just like you there are a thousand other hawks lookiní for steals on eBay. Itís kinda like Vegas- everyone talks about hitting it really huge, but itís only a few who do all the time. I digress. So you open the Engelhard auction and in there you look to the feedback. Seems like "HomestarsMarzipan" has a feedback rating of +46. Not bad at all, Iíd feel comfortable with a seller with that kind of rating, especially if they had little to no negative feedback. So you click on the number just to be sure. Sure enough, looks clean as a whistle. So just to check things out you pick a few of the auctions that have recently ended (they keep the links active for a bit on the feedback page). Whatís this? "HomestarsMarzipan" seems to only be selling glow worms and beanie babies? This should be a major tip off that something isnít right. Just to be sure that "HomestarsMarzipan" isnít secretly recording the next Wilco album in her basement you might want to go to the link that says "Feedback left about others." Sure enough, he only seems to be buying and selling beanie babies and glow worms. This may be a stolen ID and you should contact eBay immediately.

For ALL online transactions, it's a good idea to ask questions, even if you already know the answer. Good sellers generally will completely and swiftly answer questions.

The second big tip off of fraud: People who locate the item in the United States but are out of country. This is NEVER legit. Almost always these people want you to wire them the money to India, Pakistan, Nigeria, London, etc. Donít do it. Just contact eBay immediately. This will always be fraud. ALWAYS.

Finally, if you are ever suspicious about a seller drop them an email. Do your research on what you are buying and drop some somewhat difficult questions about the product. Letís say they are selling a poured 100oz bar. How about asking, "What kind of packing did you receive this in?" or "When was the last time the bar was exposed to air?" or "Tell me about how and where this bar was aquired." If they are "selling this for a friend" or have some other shady answer, you might not be getting what is listed in the auction or anything at all for that matter. Their response should always be a sign of their integrity.

balou2
18th September 2008, 17:30
Part II

[130] Buying and Selling in the Seller's Exchange

Alright this is a lot like selling and buying on eBay, but with feelings. You donít want to hurt anyoneís feelings or offend anyone, but you want the best deal on your PM from honest people.

First off, if people have a large number of posts in our forum then most likely you are going to have a great experience.

Sometimes, however people with little experience on our board come along to buy and sell on it. No problems, we welcome that. But you should do your research. First, howíd they find the board? Were they told by a member who regularly posts? If so thatís probably a sign of their integrity. People who are really good upstanding people, for the most part, tend to hang out with and associate with other really great people.

Also, you might want to ask to see some eBay feedback. Many folks who sell on here are going to have sold and/or bought through eBay at some point. For info on how to check their eBay feedback see above. Oh and, chances are, if they are buying PM for the first time or selling PM for the first time, it might be through the Seller's Exchange, so donít get too freaked out if they donít have much related to PM on eBay but theyíve come to our site.

Never be afraid to ask for some buyer references. Then, when they give them to you, follow through and talk to the people. If they give the thumbs up to the seller, go through with the deal. Thereís little I hate more than when someone shows interest in one of my big for-sales, I go to a lot of effort to produce a lot of information for them, and they never get back to me. I rarely care if itís yay or nay on the sale, but if Iíve gone to the trouble of getting a bunch of info for the person then Iíd like just a little communication saying they are still interested or not. OK, personal rant off.

Finally, one of the last things you can do in our forum that you canít possibly do on eBay is post a thread saying "Anyone dealt with ĎHomestarsMarzipaní before?" If someone has then you can be pretty sure they are gonna post either good or bad. People love to leave good feedback about buyers and sellers on our site and many other sites, but as apparent from other threads, they arenít too hesitant about leaving bad feedback about a seller either.

Finally - some final words of advice on buying and selling (in no particular order)

If it seems too good to be true, chances are that it is.
If everyone else isnít bidding on it, why?
Communication solves 99.9% of all problems


So these are some tips that can get you through a lot of buying and selling. I know this list isnít exhaustive, but itís 4 pages and all I could come up with in about 12 hours; Please feel free to add to this list. Iíd like to incorporate a lot of your responses back into it so that it can be a master document to consult.

[hr]

[140] "Dibs" and PM Selling / Buying

A Hypothetical:
Silverseekers post PM for sale. Every so often, a fellow Silverseeker posts to the FS (for sale) thread indicating s/he wants the item, and may or may not also PM the seller at the same time. Effectively, the fellow Silverseeker declares "dibs" on an item for sale. Sometimes, the seller sells the item to someone other than the Silverseeker who has publicly (and possibly privately) declared "dibs". And occasionally this creates confusion amongst the interested buyers, especially the fellow Silverseeker who has declared "dibs".

When declaring "dibs", please remember that:

someone still may beat the "dibs" Silverseeker to the punch and just not post about it publicly, or
the seller may sell to someone else entirely, even if another Silverseeker already has declared "dibs"
there is no such thing as "dibs"


Though many Silverseeker sellers might subscribe to the "first-come, first-served" model, sellers have the prerogative to sell to whomever they wish - just as buyers may purchase from whomever they wish - and neither scenario should incur hard feelings on either side.

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[150] PayPal Fee Calculators

Two PayPal fee calculators that come in handy:

http://www.ppcalc.com/ (http://www.ppcalc.com) (best for international transactions)
http://www.thefeecalculator.com/

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[160] A Note About Pricing

The Silver Exchange is an un-regluated market, and you can list your item for any price you find fair. Please keep this in mind and be courteous to your fellow Silverseekers using discretion when commenting (or, perhaps, consider not commenting) on pricing. If you don't like a price, don't buy it. If the seller requests an auction style, then respect his/her wishes, and PM him/her your bid. Sellers should specifically state how their sale will go, details of item, and potential "reserve" amounts.

[hr]

[170] Shipping Advice

General Tips

First rule of shipping: when in doubt...MORE PACKING. Too much isn't gonna hurt anyone. Personally I'd rather pay a few bucks more and have it all come safely than pay a touch less and have to deal with insurance.
In general don't use any tape INSIDE the box. Those of us that live in hotter climates hate to find tape goo cuz the package sat in the sun all day, especially on nice shiny PM.

Always use a rain shield inside the packing to prevent soak through.

*ALWAYS* insure your shipments!

The general FedEx system specifications for packaging are as follows (UPS, DHL, et al have similar specs): your package and its contents should be able to withstand the weight of a 150 pound package placed on top of it, and a drop of up to four feet. These specifications cover the most extreme of what small-package shipping companies regard as "normal" handling throughout the network. Your package will be moved from truck-to-loading dock conveyor and back again several times on its journey. Marking the package as FRAGILE is usually interpreted by couriers and package handlers as "Do Not Crush." You should seal the package only with plastic packaging tape, and you should cover all seams and edges. Do not ever seal a box with scotch, masking, electrical, or duct tape.

Many companies grant free insurance coverage for any item valued at $100 or less. Typically, insurance increases in increments of $1.00 per each $100 covered. Claims for loss should be made by shippers. Claims for damages should be made by recipients. Claims for damages require disposition of the damaged item(s) in the original box and packing materials. In other words, you cannot keep the damaged goods. This protects shipping companies from fraud. If no instructions are given to the contrary, a shipping company will typically dispose of damaged goods after inspecting a claim.

When labeling a package, keep in mind that only the USPS can deliver to P.O. Boxes, FPO's, and APO's. The typical charge for an address correction service is $5.00 per package. Be sure your shipping information is accurate. You should endeavor not to place a label on a package seam, and should place a copy of the label inside the box. Along with the recipient's full name and shipping address, you should include their telephone number. This is of great assistance to couriers should they be unable to locate an address.

As a seller of PM, perhaps it wouldn't be too hard to just go ahead and get all the shipping stuff ready... *Before* you post a FS offer in the Seller's Exchange. Then when it sells/you get the money, all you need do is tape up the box and drop it wherever.

Seller Favorites

OK, for some items we ship a lot:

1. 1oz Rounds. When possible, package in plastic tubes of 20 or 25, and ensure there is some sort of buffer/peanut between the top coin and the container lid. If 20-25 coins are not available, but tubes are, make sure to stuff the empty portion of the tube with soft, non-abrasive material to prevent scratching. If tubes are not available, plastic sheets, or baggies can work. The best way to send lose rounds is to ensure they will not rub against each other during transit.


2. 1-10oz Bars. Similar to the 1oz rounds, though they cannot go in tubes, obviously. Remember that the best way to send any PM is to ensure multiple bars will not rub against each other during transit. I have found that celophane wrap works well, and will allow for no abrasive action between coins, bars or rounds, and allows me to then tape the bundle together without taping any of the PM directly.

3. Odd size bars or rounds - wrap these entirely (all ends must be covered well) in bubble wrap. Float that bubble wrap in peanuts in a box. If you wanna be really cool and get on my good side, you will put that bubble wrapped package inside a small box and then throw that box in a bigger box, floated in peanuts. This will prevent too much movement in the box.

4. 100 oz bars - Almost identical to #3. An important thing to remember about 100oz bars is that they weigh nearly 7 pounds. I have found that placing a WRAPPED bar in a small box, then putting the small box inside a larger box (with peanuts) looks a little less conspicuous than a small box that weighs 7 pounds.

5. Anything greater than 100oz. - Always, always, always (did i say always?) double box these. Box the PM floated in peanuts and then throw that box in a bigger box in peanuts. Don't underestimate the "curiousity" of mailing clerks when they have a box the size of their fists, and it weighs 20 pounds.


OK, that should be good for now- if people have more questions please feel free to ask or add to this thread.

balou2
18th September 2008, 17:31
Part III

[hr]

[180] Purchase Agreement Template

I'm always more comfortable engaging in big ticket purchases with a firm agreement in place up front outlining purchase expectations, details, processes, and timelines. While not intended as a legal document, I find it never hurts to have something like this in place. And IMO any buyer / seller not willing to step through these details isn't worthy of my business. Perhaps someone else here will find it useful...

CONTACT & COMMUNICATION


Seller Info

Phone / Email

First Name Last Name
999-999-9999 (home)
999-999-9999 (cell)
999-999-9999 (work)
seller@isp.com

Mailing Address

123 Streetname
City State ZIP+4

Buyer Info

Phone / Email

First Name Last Name
999-999-9999 (home)
999-999-9999 (cell)
999-999-9999 (work)
buyer@isp.com

Mailing Address

123 Streetname
City State ZIP+4

Communication and Expectations

Throughout the process, both buyer and seller will endeavor to meet all verbal and/or written commitments. Acknowledging that sometimes practical issues arise in preventing the honoring of all commitments in a timely fashion, if either party fails to meet a commitment outright or within a timely fashion as agreed, the party late in delivery of or failing to meet the commitment will provide swift and clear communication indicating why the commitment and/or timeline was not satisfied as agreed and propose an alternative path forward. Upon failure to complete an action as committed either outright or within the agreed upon timeline, the other party may agree to cancel the transaction resulting in, as appropriate given the stage of the transaction:

[1] a full monetary refund and/or
[2] return of all goods in the same condition as which they were delivered

GOODS INCLUDED


The $NNN purchase price includes the following gear in the following condition:

qty | cost | Item A | serial # | functional condition | cosmetic condition
qty | cost | Item B | serial # | functional condition | cosmetic condition
qty | cost | Item C | serial # | functional condition | cosmetic condition

Include here any questions and corresponding answers addressed by the buyer and seller. Never hurts to have all the info about the exchange in one place. Not all bars or rounds have serial numbers, but if known, then it doesn't hurt to include ti.

SHIPPING / INSURANCE

As indicated in the original Seller's Exchange posting, the $NNN sale price includes shipping and insurance. See Payment section for handling payment of purchase price and shipping / insurance.

Payment Shipping

Buyer will ship payment to the seller through a shipping carrier supporting delivery signature / confirmation and tracking number service. Acceptable carriers include:

[1] USPS
[2] FedEx
[3] Airborne
[4] UPS

Carrier selected for this transaction: XYZ

PM Shipping

Seller will ship PM to the buyer through a shipping carrier supporting delivery signature / confirmation and tracking number service. Acceptable carriers include:

[1] USPS
[2] FedEx
[3] Airborne
[4] UPS

Carrier selected for this transaction: XYZ

PM Insurance

Seller will insure the PM for the full $NNN purchase price. If the buyer desires additional insurance coverage, seller agrees to ship with additional coverage, but at the buyer's expense.

PM Packing

Packing of all items will include:
[1] double-boxing
[2] ample padded filler packed tightly enough to
[3] provide a minimum of 3" spacing between the internal box and the outer box wall, and
[4] prevent all movement of the PM within the internal box
[5] prevent all movement of the internal box within the external box

PAYMENT

The following payment methods are acceptable:

[1] Paypal (buyer pays +3%)
[2] cashiers check
[3] money order
[4] other guaranteed cashable method

Payment method selected for this transaction: XYZ

REVIEW PERIOD

Seller will provide 48 hours upon receipt of the PM for the buyer to verify contents and condition. If the buyer indicates dissatisfaction within those 48 hours - for any reason - buyer will return the PM at the buyer's expense, in the same condition in which it was sent. After receiving the returned PM and verifying the contents and condition of the returned PM, the seller will refund the purchase price, but not shipping and insurance costs.

TIMELINE

As a general guideline, the expected timelines for the transaction as agreed by both buyer and seller:

[1] Buyer will mail payment no later than YYYY-MM-DD
[2] Seller will cash payment within 48 hrs of receipt
[3] Seller will ship PM within 48 hrs of payment clearing the cashing process
[4] Seller will provide shipping carrier, tracking #, and shipping cost within 48 hrs of shipping
[5] Buyer will indicate (dis)satisfaction with contents and condition within 48 hrs of receipt

AGREEMENT

Seller, please indicate agreement with the purchase details as documented above.
Buyer, please indicate agreement with the purchase details as documented above.

[hr]

[190] Resources if you have a problem with a seller / sale

I recognize that this might not apply to virtually any sellers , however because we tend to deal on ebay and with other sources on purchases I thought this might be some useful information:

FTC On Mail Order Issues:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/buspubs/mailorder.htm

US Postal Inspectors Mail Fraud Complaint Form:

https://www.usps.com/postalinspectors/fraud/MailFraudComplaint.htm

If you're really in a pinch and burned:
be sure to file a report with the persons local sherriffs dept.
also file a report with http://www.ic3.gov ic3 is short for internet crime complaint center

digger
18th September 2008, 22:05
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Do we have an interpreter in the house? :confused:

Raven
18th September 2008, 22:34
Failed spambot...looks like he coded it wrong.

thetackle
18th September 2008, 23:03
I think it says something like,
"All must bow to the Fed, Maker of Money! Silver and Gold, Bad. Dollar bills, good. Don't listen to the free thinking, educated people on this forum. They will only lead you to having big silver paperweights."

Or something like that.