Elephant in the Room

[Argentum]

Well folks, looks like we may be seeing the second of the one-two punch I mentioned a while back. Silver is again dropping and although I don't think the big banks where directly behind this, it's going to help them shake up SLV. Yup, it's the elephant in the silver world. It will be interesting to see how the ETF's hold up, or dump.

I'm already hearing some folks whine about their holdings in such ETF's. For me, it's all good. I'm looking to again buy more as soon as funds become available. It's looking like Maples or Phils as most other forms are just not available. In any case I'm buying.... enjoy.

[Argentum]

Now I'm hearing Lehman Brothers is hurting.... this will be very interesting to see how they dig out of their hole.

And what a day.... up, down, down, up... Just damn glad I don't trade options.

[digger]

Now I'm hearing Lehman Brothers is hurting.... this will be very interesting to see how they dig out of their hole.

And what a day.... up, down, down, up... Just damn glad I don't trade options.

Lehman brothers is looking to sell a stake to Korea Development Bank. Looks like talks ain't going so well...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMASbzvTBXn0&refer=home

How much trouble are we in if the Asians buy up our major banks?

[skijake]

Lehman brothers is looking to sell a stake to Korea Development Bank. Looks like talks ain't going so well...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aMASbzvTBXn0&refer=home

How much trouble are we in if the Asians buy up our major banks?

Trouble? No trouble. Just increasing share holder value by selling crap to ANYONE who will listen. Double-talk is all we have left, but as long as there is an audience we should be Aok.:rolleyes:We have the best entertainers in ALL THE WORLD, We're #1,----- U.S.A.----We're #1-----Good Grief!!!!

[balou2]

How much trouble are we in if the Asians buy up our major banks?

Wouldn't even have to be an Asian ethnic group. Any ethnic, geographic, global power other than our own, buying majority stakes in our financial structure could be the end to western civilization. In this case, it happens to be China and India. I don't truly think it would happen, but if China controlled our financial institutions, and got pissed at us, that could be the epitome of the SHTF.

[Thoriz]

Aren't they using their dollar reserve as pressure on us now? I heard that they just scored a major oil contract in Iraq. You know, "Sign that contract with us or we dump our FRNs and convert to something else." They don't even have to make the conversion, just threaten it. That would be the oil that they said was going to recoup our war expenses. It may have just gone to China, too.

[Argentum]

Yup, Bull in the china shop IS China. ((India has the cows lol))

[chux03]

...It's looking like Maples or Phils as most other forms are just not available. In any case I'm buying.... enjoy.

I just bought a WHOLE BUNCH of them at www.APMEX.com
In fact, they just had a BIG Labor Day sale on the Mapleleafs for $15 and some change.

There's LOTS of silver and all of it's for sale at www.sunshinesilver.com I have yet to hear of any shortage there.

www.goldmoney.com is another one that has TONNES of silver and it's ready for you to purchase. No shortage there either.

What was that about some kind of...silver shortage??

[Argentum]

Osprie ((sp?)) a 4 billion hedge fund, which is 20% owned by Leahman Brothers just when under. That was going to be one of their sales options to get them solvent.

[Kelly]

Lehman Bros. was one of the eight original banks that started the Federal Reserve, but I don't know if they are still in that position today, (I don't think anybody really knows) or if they are, their percentage of ownership is probably very small.

I fully expect that if for any reason Lehman Bros. faces insolvency, it will be bailed out or taken over by one of the bigger banks that owns a controlling interest in the Fed. In other words, it will be the Fed lending money to itself...

In the world of banking, I think we are going to see "the big ones eating the little ones" as my Grandmother used to say. Even among the major banking families, it's beginning to look like the very top few have every intention of either taking over the smaller banks or letting them fold.

In the days when the Federal Reserve began (1913) Lehman Bros. was a very influential and important bank, but today they look like a midget next to Morgan-Chase and some of the other big banks.

It's very possible the big ones will let Lehman Bros. fold.


Wouldn't even have to be an Asian ethnic group. Any ethnic, geographic, global power other than our own, buying majority stakes in our financial structure could be the end to western civilization. In this case, it happens to be China and India. I don't truly think it would happen, but if China controlled our financial institutions, and got pissed at us, that could be the epitome of the SHTF.

Do you honestly think the heavies in the international banking community (primarily Europeans and Americans) are going to let China get the upper hand in this? I sure don't! There is some big, OLD money watching every move that China makes. China owns a huge protion of Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae, and it's my guess that if China gets too damn cocky, the Fed bankers will be perfectly willing to let those morgage lenders collapse becuse it will totally bankrupt China if they do.

China may indeed be an elephant, but if you dig a pit deep enough, even an elephant will fall in...

You've got to remember, there are some very crafty and Machiavellian people running the international money show. They've been running this show for centuries now. They are not about to give their power to China.

Just remember it was the Fed that actually sold China our national debt. They are the ones that brokered the deal. My guts tell me they didn't make that move innocently. I think it's a game of blind man's bluff today. China needs to be very careful because the Fed has the power to completely collapse all the bad debt that China now owns.

China may own the debt, but how in the hell are they going to collect from a bankrupt banking system?

[averagejoe]

Hi Kelly! It's good to hear from you haven't seen any posts from you for some time. I think the Fed and our government need to be very careful how they deal with China or we may well wind up fighting them on our own shores. China will not set back and be taken for a ride by any country without retaliating to protect their interests. We need to be very careful that we don't under estimate their power or resolve the results could be disasterous. Our country is so over extended and bankrupt now we would not stand a chance against an army of that size. Especially when there are so many other countries that would just love to jump on the band wagon and do harm to us. We are not exactly the most loved country in the world right now unfortunately thanks to our meddling ways.

[Kelly]

Well, I can't disagree with you there, Joe. Personally, I don't think Communist China has played the game of capitalism long enough to even come close to entirely understanding the underhanded and manipulative trap the banking community seems to have laid for them. The bankers that have been pulling the strings are a wiley bunch and sneaky as hell. But even so, that being said, should the bankers work in tandem to bring China under their thumb, I doubt that the banks are prepared for how China might retaliate. China doesn't walk softly and carry a big stick; if they are threatened they attack and do not hesitate.

I honestly don't think China has a clue as to how to outwit the big bankers. And like you, I fear that should they feel the least bit threatened, if the past is any indication of the future, China would react with military might because that's what they've always done in the past.

That's what I mean about it being a game of Blind Man's Bluff today. All the bankers have to do is collapse Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae and China's economy would be shot because they are so heavily invested in those institutions. The big stick the bankers carry is economic manipulation, but the stick China carries is more military might than any of us really cares to think about.

I think the bankers really have dug a pit for the big Elephant in the Room. The bankers have to collapse China's economy just like they have to collapse America's economy to bring the world under one single monetary control.

Does China see it too? They might. They have been escalating a military build up and it's very clear on the satellite pictures. One might ask why...

[Trvlr45]

Hi Kelly,

You have been gone a while. Nice to see you back.

I think that if WE know about the Fed the Chinese certainly do. Russia and China are buddies now and they both are friends with Iran so China doesn't have to do anything. They can do it through Russia and Iran.

We are in debt up to our necks and Russia is debt free and flush with cash. China is doing quite well also and they want to keep it that way.

I don't see China doing anything to screw up the sweet deal they have going and they don't have to. This country is doing a bang up job of destroying itself.

I have no doubt that China and especially Russia who was taken down by the Fed printing presses know all about the central banking system and if I am not mistaken, it was China that invented the game of chess. The only game in the world with an infinite number of moves and counter moves.

I don't think we have to worry about any earth shattering military conflicts or China dumping our currency in the near future. The Chinese are very patient people. They are like the banksters, they plan a hundred years in advance.

[Kelly]

Hey hey Travlr! How're ya doin?

Maybe I've missed something here. But frankly, I don't see how China's economy is not intrinsically tied to the Fed. They own a huge part of our national debt and a huge part of all the defaulted home loans that were funded by Fred and Fannie. So if those two industries go under, how does China collect?

China may have invented chess, but they did not invent the international banking community. They may well be aware of the threat, but they do not own the banks that manipulate the world's economy.

What do you mean "China is doing quite well"? In truth it is more accurate to say "China WAS doing quite well." China is now caught in the same inflationary spiral the rest of us are trapped in. Furthermore one of their top dogs was just interviewed about a week ago over the national news and he said "The days of cheap labor in China are over. It's through. There is no more cheap labor." China enjoyed the industrial and manufacturing advantage when millions (or billions) of poor rural peasants poured into the cities looking for work. Twenty years ago there was a glut of cheap labor there. But today, the workers are second generation city folks who want to be able to buy cars, TVs and ipods. They are no longer willing to work for mere peanuts, and in order to keep their manufacturing plants open, China is now having to pay their workers a wage that is more in line with the rest of the industrialized nations.

We gave all our manufacturing up to China in the days when China had all the cheap labor in the world. Those days are done according to the Chinese big wig I saw interviewed by Brian Williams.

So how sweet will China have it when the American retailers discover that manufactured goods from China are not going to be any cheaper than manufactured goods made right here? It costs retailers money to ship goods here from China, and those shipping costs will be a critical factor. The day is coming when it will be cheaper to manufacture goods in North America and eliminate overseas shipping costs than it will be to buy from China who is now having to pay people a reasonable wage.

And dumb us; we've closed down all our manufacturing plants to play the cheap Chinese labor game, and that game is on its way out.

This is why China is now holding hands with Mexico who is VERY willing to allow the Chinese to build manufacturing plants in Mexico. At the same time, the big truck farmers who used to produce most of our fruits and veggies right here in America are moving their business to Mexico where they can STILL find cheap labor since the crack down on illegal aliens went into effect here. You can't grow fruit and veggies if you don't have a labor force willing to pick it.

Who knows how it is all going to play out. But China is looking at cheap Mexican labor, and the big corporate farmers are too, so the wild card in today's game just may be Mexico.

Any way you look at it, the game is going to be played right at our back door! Why in the hell do you think the whole Amero-North American Union is being planned by the big wigs? Why is America spending billions in Mexico while our own people lose their houses and stand in the food bank lines? The whole so called "NAFTA super highway" running from the big sea ports in Mexico all the way to Canada no longer looks like it was simply planned so the Chinese could ship cheaply to Mexico and avoid our sea port tariffs. It now looks like it was planned because the Chinese actually plan on moving many of their manufacturing plants to Mexico.

Maybe a Chinese-Russian alliance spells a resurgence in Communism again; I don't know, but it's the Chinese-Mexican alliance that scares me because that's the thing that is going to bring Communism to North America and I can't say I like that idea.

The whole damn thing has just gotten so big, it's hard to wrap your head around it all. But it sure looks like the Chinese plan on moving some of their manufacturing plants to Mexico. The Chinese have to have cheap labor to stay on top of the game, so they apparently have plans to take their game where the cheap labor still lives…

My guess is that manufacturing plants left operating in China will be the ones shipping to European consumers and Chinese plants in Mexico will ship to South America, the US and Canada.

And it sure as hell looks like a plan that was put together a very long time ago.

By the way Trvlr, you are aware of the Communist tendencies of many of the ideas expressed by the Council on Foreign Relations, aren't you? And of course you know that it's the International bankers that run the Council on Foreign relations. And it's the CFR that is pushing through the whole Amero-North American Union thing.

Oh what a tangled web those banker boys weave…

[Kelly]

I've just got to leave you with a couple quotable quotes before I hit the hay...



The invisible Money Power is working to control and enslave mankind. It financed Communism, Fascism, Marxism, Zionism, Socialism. All of these are directed to making the United States a member of a World Government..." American Mercury Magazine, December 1957, page 92


"The drive of the Rockefellers and their allies is to create a one-world government combining super capitalism and Communism under the same tent, all under their control.... Do I mean conspiracy? Yes I do. I am convinced there is such a plot, international in scope, generations old in planning, and incredibly evil in intent."
- Congressman Larry P. McDonald, 1976, killed in the Korean Airlines 747 that was shot down by the Soviets

[Trvlr45]

Well Kelly,

We'll just have to wait and see what happens. It is a very tangled web indeed.

[Argentum]

And now this:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/sep/04/pakistan

We best be watching EVERYWHERE as the US media is NOT reporting events that matter.

[FedFixNix]

Kelly, It's so good to see your comments again. :D I hope you will let us know if you decide to take another 4 month vacation!

I'm not going to get entwined in speculation over China. The NWO PTB used them along with many other machinations to destroy a strong and independent American Middle Class, and that goal has nearly been achieved. What we have now instead is a debtor class that lives on the edge of economic disaster with one health crisis, job loss, or other unforeseen expense. Most former "middle class" Americans are now debt-slaves in disguise. The entire move to a global economy and the "outsourcing" of jobs, plant and equipment was designed to remove the one real obstacle to the Global Economic NWO, the American middle class, and to make the USA dependent on foreign imports. That has been largely accomplished.


Maybe a Chinese-Russian alliance spells a resurgence in Communism again; I don't know, but it's the Chinese-Mexican alliance that scares me because that's the thing that is going to bring Communism to North America and I can't say I like that idea.

It all scares me, but not because of "communism"... because of "totalitarianism" under any name. If it isn't representative government, then I don't want it. Period. Names and labels are divisive distractions from the real issues.


My guess is that manufacturing plants left operating in China will be the ones shipping to European consumers and Chinese plants in Mexico will ship to South America, the US and Canada.

Interesting speculation, but IMO, way oversimplified. What about Mexico? What about the NAU and the Amero? I think the NWO want to control every nation through money, finance and banking. It's a waste of energy to try figuring out all the scenarios, twists, turns, and possibilities in their strategies. American is quickly becoming a 2nd or 3rd rate nation in many ways.


And it sure as hell looks like a plan that was put together a very long time ago.
By the way Trvlr, you are aware of the Communist tendencies of many of the ideas expressed by the Council on Foreign Relations, aren't you? And of course you know that it's the International bankers that run the Council on Foreign relations. And it's the CFR that is pushing through the whole Amero-North American Union thing.
Oh what a tangled web those banker boys weave…

Yep. A very long time ago, and it is finally coming to fruition, for better or worse, depending on one's POV.

However, Kelly's words I shaded in blue above are the real truths that people reading this need to absorb. The Morgans and Rockefellers were the prime movers behind American Central Banking, and also the CFR, but the Bilderbergers, Trilateral commission, Chatham House-RIIA, WTO, IMF, IBS, and many international fraternal organization are among the networks the Central Bankers use. And that's just for starters. There are hundreds of other organizations involved.

Tangled web it certainly is. That's why I keep recommending Ellen Brown's "Web of Debt" as essential reading material:
http://www.webofdebt.com/excerpts/chapter-37.php

Again, Kelly, it's good to see you here again.

FedFinNix

[averagejoe]

The very fact that China owns a huge share of our debt is what makes this situation so dangerous. Our government is for all intensive purposes bankrupt. If we were to default on our loans and move alot of our manufacturing back home China is likely to do what ever they feel is nessicary to protect their interests, militarily or otherwise. As far as our freedoms go we lost a lot of them under Bush and his cronies in the passage of the so called Patriot Act and several other bills they were able to dupe us into. In my opinion there is nothing patriotic about the Patriot Act all it did was take more of our liberties away from us under the smoke screen of trying to protect us which is a bunch of BS, it's all about control.

[Trvlr45]

By the way Trvlr, you are aware of the Communist tendencies of many of the ideas expressed by the Council on Foreign Relations, aren't you? And of course you know that it's the International bankers that run the Council on Foreign relations. And it's the CFR that is pushing through the whole Amero-North American Union thing.

Yes Kelly,

I am very well aware of ALL of the above. It's a shame I can't get anyone I know to see it. They'll get it when everyone else gets it. When it is too late.

[Trvlr45]

Is anyone besides me aware that Sarah Palin is a Ron Paul supporter and that we will have a vice president that knows about the Fed?

And before everyone says, "It doesn't make any difference because McCain is a globalist" I would just like to point out the slight glimmer of hope she could provide.

I have no doubt that when McCain is elected she won't be able to do anything except follow the party agenda.

And yes, my gut feeling is McCain. in almost a landslide not that I'm a big supporter of his Mexican invasion agenda.

Anyone else see a glimmer of hope in Palin?

[nuslvrkwen]

What is electing McLame & Palin got to do with PMs prices stabilzing; Trvlr45? WHAT slim glimmer of hope?

The election will change the direction of how the government gets funding in general. Are you saying (in your opinion of course) that the way the government goes about funding itself, and taking over corporations is now OK? AND that the fabulous Republican party's partisan ways of allowing tax breaks for nothing benefitting the community taxes were enacted for in the first place - and NOT paying debt is how the US should run its' financial direction?

[clr8ter]

I think Obama totally has it in the bag. He has the right personality. MCcain comes off as a total moron, from eveything I've heard him say on TV, or have heard what he said from some other source. He should stick to making french frys. Which he does well.......

[JesterJay]

Unbiased AND insult free.
You should anchor ABC, Another Barrack Conspirator.
Or NBC, National Barrack Conspirators.
Or CNN, Conspiring to Nominate Non-experienced.
I could go on. But the liberal FAR LEFT media already does.
They'll be glad to know you are helping.
Vote for the persons who DONT want to kill live born babies*!!!
JesterJay
PS You started it. I am done now.

*just one good reason NOT to be a liberal.



I think Obama totally has it in the bag. He has the right personality. MCcain comes off as a total moron, from eveything I've heard him say on TV, or have heard what he said from some other source. He should stick to making french frys. Which he does well.......

[mapletree]

thank you jj and trvlr45. keeping it sane.

[JesterJay]

Yeah,
I know. Just wanted to point out the sanity of it ALL.
BUY SILVER NOW!!!
I hear it's gonna be big,
JesterJay
PS Spot is NOT!!!




thank you jj and trvlr45. keeping it sane.

[Argentum]

Ok, Lehmann has got to come up with cash, so selling Hamburger is now on the chopping block. F&F are now under GOV control. SLV is dropping like a rock. SLV with it's unverifiable store of silver is what the general public thinks is real silver. They have been hoodwinked again. ETF's are just another way to put MORE PAPER into play. Wall Street CANNOT MAKE MONEY when we buy PM's.

[nuslvrkwen]

So buy and sell PMs irregardless of the spot price. Record it, use sales data to build charts to use for averages. HOW can we come up with a moving PHYSICAL PM per ounce price on the open market NOT using listed spot prices?

[JesterJay]

We need something like a Kelly Blue Book value for silver.
Some experts (who? I don't know) should make an nada-type value chart based on the "book".
It would really come down to needing to monitor the REAL FREE MARKET that Jason Hommel is asking someone to build so we have a REAL market on which to buy and sell PMs at REAL VALUE prices.
JesterJay



So buy and sell PMs irregardless of the spot price. Record it, use sales data to build charts to use for averages. HOW can we come up with a moving PHYSICAL PM per ounce price on the open market NOT using listed spot prices?

[JaySpizzy]

Yeah a PM ebay with dealer ask/bid spreads instead of huge fees. Any big dealer could do this, with the significant advantage of tnot having to buy and store silver, and not needing to be concerned with the actual price volatility.

He'd make money off the spread, and we'd get an accurate price.

[sliver]

It is possible that what we see is really a forecast of future events. That is, the market on a daily basis can be volatile and seemingly erratic, but when looked at for a period of months the trend may be very meaningful. The thought has occurred to me that the silver and gold activity is perhaps telling us of a huge deflationary period soon. Our $10 silver may buy as much a year from now as our $20 silver did a few months ago. The housing numbers, employment numbers, the financial mess all indicate to me a massive decline in world markets and deflation.
This thread has covered a huge range of thoughts and I'll make a few comments. It is important to look at a nation's history and national sentiment when trying to unravel or understand it's likely reactions. that is a pretty good indicator of likely future action. I've had some dealings with Chinese vendors and observed them for many years. Chinese are excellent businessmen. They may make a mistake once, but rarely twice. Look at how well little Taiwan did in world markets. Their financial assets and business's were much larger than nations much, much bigger than they were and they did it with very few assets in the form of natural resources. China is just a huge Taiwan with more natural resources. China's achilles heel is and always has been corruption and this is likely to keep their foundations and walls weak as a result. They also are a nation that has been invaded many times yet is unlikely to invade others unless seriously threatened or provoked. Now let us look at the other big power, Russia. A nation always suspicious of others intentions, never feeling it's proper for it's citizens to move freely about or travel, although they have temporarily relaxed that area. It's people have always preferred to enjoy the security of a very strong central government, mother Russia.
Now here we are...drawing on resources in Kazakstan, Usbekistan, Turkemenistan. Look at their locations, under Russia's belly, and along China's frontiers. We are setting up military bases right between this corridor that brings oil and other materials thru Georgia and Turkey to Europe. Now Russia has been invited by Venezuela to have naval manuevers in those waters. We are living in interesting times....Powers may scheme and plan a world order, but it may be like nailing jello to the wall, cause other schemers have their own agenda.
Sliver

[Trvlr45]

What is electing McLame & Palin got to do with PMs prices stabilzing; Trvlr45? WHAT slim glimmer of hope?

The election will change the direction of how the government gets funding in general. Are you saying (in your opinion of course) that the way the government goes about funding itself, and taking over corporations is now OK? AND that the fabulous Republican party's partisan ways of allowing tax breaks for nothing benefitting the community taxes were enacted for in the first place - and NOT paying debt is how the US should run its' financial direction?

No Nuslvrkwen. My reason for pointing out the fact that she is a Ron Paul supporter has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat.

The reason I pointed it out was because Ron Paul was the only one running that understands why we have the monetary corruption we have.

He understands about the Fed and about the value of silver and gold as real money. I just think that as grim as things are looking especially now that we are stuck with the bill for Fannie and Freddy's screw up which was caused by our govenment there might be a glimmer of hope that we actually have a vice-president that may want the same things that Ron Paul wanted.

I realize I'm grasping at straws. I was just rying to be optimistic and wondered what anyone else thought about it. It took BOTH parties to stick it to us. Not just one or the other. They are both evil.

This Freddie and Fanny debacle is communism in it's purest form. Government now owns a HUGE amount of private property. That is illegal in this country. It's a HUGE problem and WE are stuck with the bill.

This wouldn't have happened unless BOTH parties got together and agreed on it. Congress is as much to blame as anyone else and I don't think I have to point out who is running the show there.

They ALL work for the world's biggest corporations. Not us. Redistributing wealth someone else worked for is evil whether it goes to a corporation for a bailout or a bunch of deadbeats who can breed 'em but don't want to feed 'em. Communities don't need to be spending someone elses money either.

[Trvlr45]

I think Obama totally has it in the bag. He has the right personality. MCcain comes off as a total moron, from eveything I've heard him say on TV, or have heard what he said from some other source. He should stick to making french frys. Which he does well.......

Not a chance. Too many people know Obama's background now. Without Palin, most probably but now. I highly doubt it. Even the Clintons will pull the lever for McCain. The Palin pick was pure genious and even I, someone who does NOT trust McCain am starting to think that just maybe that old coot has a few more pleasant surprises up his sleeve.

[Trvlr45]

thank you jj and trvlr45. keeping it sane.

I've always thought I'm sane but my liberal cousins don't. I'll make American's out of them yet.

[pkrebaum]

Red, white, green, or blue..... my vote's for whomever will balance the budget and reverse our trade deficit. Not too many candidates seem to understand this fundamental, root cause of our problems..... and the ones that do have been totally marginalized by the MSM. Which leads me to conclude that the PTB don't want the problem solved..... until they're done sucking all the money out of the middle class and relegating us to serfdom.

[Kelly]

Wow Trvlr, you and I had totally different reactions about Palin. My take on McCain's choice was that it was the stupidist thing he could have done. It's not that I don't like Palin, it's that McCain is an OLD man with serious health problems who could kick off in a blink while in office if elected. And if that happens, we'll have a woman with absolutely NO political experience on the International scene holding the highest office in America.

Palin has no experience and no clout internationally, and while Obama doesn't have a whole lot of experience either, internationally the world has stood up and taken notice of him. Our ex allies (the ones who utterly hate Bush) actually like Obama, and I think he stands a much better chance of repairing our international standing to the rest of the world.

Palin simply has no standing in that department. She might be a great politician, but I doubt seriously if France, England or South America will pay any attention to a thing she says.

I think McCain made a big mistake. I've got some serious reservations about Obama too, and in particular his CFR connections through his wife who is the director of the Chicago branch of the Council on Foreign Relations. But McCain has been a CFR man all the way since he's been in politics, so it's six of one and half a dozen of the other in that department.

[mapletree]

I've always thought I'm sane but my liberal cousins don't. I'll make American's out of them yet.

Lets get rid of the (R)'s and (D)'s and replace them with (A)mericans. We need the Republic.

[nuslvrkwen]

Great Dialog Trvlr45! I have faith you ain't just swinging cause it's the GOP. That Palin Thang is dangerous in all the wrong directions. PKrebaum's statement about balancing the budget and getting the US back (to innovation- my thoughts) and work; is what we are talking about.

I DIDN'T VOTE for Obama in the CA primary. I had to watch what looked like a "movement" - meaning all the hype coverage of his policy to wonder if we would be going in the right direction 'hiring' somebody who simply wants to serve. Only to have the answer to the movement be 'the same ol' thing' only in a dress! And yeah Kelly - I agree with you - that geez she's running with could kick off right after being sworn in; :D THEN where would be all be! :(

What I'm really looking at as far as our and the world's economy is this: ALL of us have to work, and our work not only puts money in our pockets but in the nations treasury. It's the equity if you will, that's the basis FOR the premise on the paper dollar. There's a ton of paper floating around out there, just to cover expenses FOR BAD BUSINESS POLICY. The government has seen these businesses make profits, and absorbs the businesses so that it can have cash flow it can count on. The marketplace as it is - is simply the conduit this cash flow is going through TO MAINTAIN this crappy policy. I believe all the workers in the world after they've been doing their jobs for any length of time, can come up with better ways to do the same job. Saving money and delivering what the job does - goods & services more effectively and with more satisfaction on the part of the worker and company. That's not communism; because it relies on the unforeseen - innovation in order for it to work and grow.

That's why I'm still thinking in spite of all this political election whoopdedoo - we are still on the brink of incredible opportunity! Just keep buying metal that will give you the means to take advantage of those opportunities as they come to you! We all seen so far this year anyway - the Elephant in the room creates chaos. Chaos turns to opportunity in a good way more than not.

[nuslvrkwen]

No Nuslvrkwen. My reason for pointing out the fact that she is a Ron Paul supporter has nothing to do with Republican or Democrat.

The reason I pointed it out was because Ron Paul was the only one running that understands why we have the monetary corruption we have.- Trvlr45

Just a heads up. You may think she's a Ron Paul policy supporter. I don't know all that much about Ron Paul; but I do know this: HE just REJECTED John McCain's Endorsment request. Meaning HE doesn't believe Palin. Or that she understands HIS concerns. What freaks me out about all this is we never really got in a dialog about the political agendas of Ron Paul or Mitt Romney for that matter! They both dropped out of the race and stopped talking!

I'm convinced no matter what those running for office are saying, they only work for us. And it's clear THEY ain't got a clue. It's really up to the voting public to set policy our employees are supposed to follow. Don't accept the current administration/Fed/central banks being in power. Don't get loans. Don't deal with them. Change will happen as a result.

[Trvlr45]

Palin is a godsend in my opinion. The stories that are being ginned up by the media are, for the most part, lies. The rest are propoganda. They want her gone or marginalized because if she does for the country what she did for Alaska there are going to be a lot of slimy politicians out of work.

If McCain dies, which I doubt will happen Palin would be far better in the whitehoiuse than Obama. Very few presidents know anything about foriegn policy. Knowing how to pick a good advisor and putting our country first instead of Africa or Mexico for example, is all that is needed.

As far as our former allies hating Bush and liking Obama I can only say that England is our biggest enemy. Who do you think owns most of America and where do you think the slimiest of central bankers reside. In England.

England and Australia own the biggest mining companies in this country along with Canada. They all didn't join with us in the Iraq war because they love us. They joined because when those towers fell they lost their asses.

The people in England are OK it is their government that sucks and ours is on a course to be just like theirs. England owns more of our country than we do through the central banking system.

As for Obama. Anyone who has done their homework on him could not possibly even want him running loose inside of our borders let alone in the whitehouse and his wife is as bad as he is.

I don't like Juan Pablo but the fact is Obama is the biggest threat this country has ever faced in it's history. He is a very accomplished liar and orator, nothing else.

He's a first term senator. He has never had to make a decision on anything. Governors and members of congress always make the best presidents because they are always in closer touch to the people.

The most important thing we need in this country is a president, a congress and a senate that puts this country first for a change. Juan Pablo I wonder about on that score. Palin I don't. I know she's and American with our interests at heart.

Obama can't even be considered a citizen with HIS background. He should be in jail.

[Trvlr45]

Great Dialog Trvlr45! I have faith you ain't just swinging cause it's the GOP. That Palin Thang is dangerous in all the wrong directions. PKrebaum's statement about balancing the budget and getting the US back (to innovation- my thoughts) and work; is what we are talking about.


Palin, if she was president WOULD balance the budget. All I can say is that from the comments I'm hearing about Palin it is obvious that everyone is listening to rumors, lies and propoganda ginned up by the media. I would bet that everyone who is on the "hate Palin" bandwagon didn't even take the time to listen to her speech. All they know is what "US" magazine said about her.

I, on the other hand have heard interviews with people from Alaska who know her, gre up with her and worked with her and for her. I've heard numerous people FROM ALASKA, not New York, NBC or the National Enquirer call various talk radio shows and not one had anything bad to say about her. As a matter of fact they predict we'll be seeing Palin for the next 12 years. She's THAT good.

If all the propoganda and bad things you are hearing about her are true how is it she has an 83% approval rating in her state, the highest rating of ANY governor in the entire country. Oh, I forgot, those red necks up in Alaska are just too stupid to realize their governor is inexperienced. They need the New York times and NBC to do their thinking for them.

[Trvlr45]

Just a heads up. You may think she's a Ron Paul policy supporter. I don't know all that much about Ron Paul; but I do know this: HE just REJECTED John McCain's Endorsment request. Meaning HE doesn't believe Palin.

If your invested in PM's and you don't know anything about Ron Paul all I can say is, how is that possible? Ron Paul's entire investment portfolio is in silver and gold mining and PM's. He's also a big time coin collector. THAT is why I brought this subject up in the first place!! If Palin likes Paul she HAS to understand about PM's. Rejecting McCain's endorsement request means he rejected McCain, not Palin.

I think Palin is great and I would vote for her over the other two for president. I have NO DOUBT that she will NOT be able to do anything significant as vice-president but having her in the administration can only be a plus.

The McCain dying ploy os just more propoganda to get people to think Palin is a bad choice. She hates corruption. THAT is what they are afraid of.

[Trvlr45]

Lets get rid of the (R)'s and (D)'s and replace them with (A)mericans. We need the Republic.

You're right Mapletree, that's why I like Palin. She's an American.

[Trvlr45]

Palin has no experience and no clout internationally, and while Obama doesn't have a whole lot of experience either, internationally the world has stood up and taken notice of him. Our ex allies (the ones who utterly hate Bush) actually like Obama, and I think he stands a much better chance of repairing our international standing to the rest of the world.

Palin simply has no standing in that department. She might be a great politician, but I doubt seriously if France, England or South America will pay any attention to a thing she says.

Kelly,

The reason the international community likes Obama so much is because he hates America as much as they do. He was one of the sponsors of the Global Poverty Act. Do you know what is in that act? Our downfall, that's what is in it. Global taxation WE will have to pay on TOP of all the bailouts as well as language allowing the international community to disarm us by erasing the second ammendment.

What we need to do as a country is stop paying attention to what France, England and South America are saying and Palin would do better at that than McCain or Obama.

That is the whole problem, through the UN, whose sole purpose is to destroy America, the international community, which are mostly dictatorships, are stealing our wealth and our country from us. They want us to be more of a dictatorship than we already are.

Misery loves company.

[Trvlr45]

Red, white, green, or blue..... my vote's for whomever will balance the budget and reverse our trade deficit. Not too many candidates seem to understand this fundamental, root cause of our problems..... and the ones that do have been totally marginalized by the MSM. Which leads me to conclude that the PTB don't want the problem solved..... until they're done sucking all the money out of the middle class and relegating us to serfdom.

You are absolutely correct, Pkrebaum. That is why BOTH parties ran Ron Paul out of town on a rail and why they are doing to Palin what they are doing. Unfortunately for them, she isn't going anywhere but to the whitehouse.

That is why, with McCain's legislative past I am flbbergasted at his pick of Palin for VP. I just don't get it. Maybe down the road I will understand.

[Kelly]

As far as our former allies hating Bush and liking Obama I can only say that England is our biggest enemy. Who do you think owns most of America and where do you think the slimiest of central bankers reside. In England.

True to a point.

But that being said, does it really matter which candidate wins? BOTH are candidates who have been bought and controlled by the Big Money Boys, both have ties to the CFR and both seem to be puppets.

You can put your faith in Palin if you want to, but IMO she wouldn't have been picked by McCain unless she too had recieved the approval from the very people I already know you absolutely hate and despise.

Come on Trvlr. You already know both parties are controlled by the same people. The so-called differences don't need to be championed here.

If either party was actually "different," their candidate would never even make it to the starting gate.

I'm not "for" Obama any more than McCain. Whoever wins, I think it's just going to be more of the same.

The trouble I see with both Obama and Palin is that they both seem to be operating under the dillusion that they have the freedom to change things and I truly wish they were right.

But frankly, it may actually be easier to manipulate somebody who believes in themselves. At the very least it makes those candidates who do seem more believable to the public.

That doesn't mean that the candidates aren't sincere; I suspect that they are. Still, none of them would have gotten this far unless the Big Money Boys weren't reasonably certain they could control them.

By the way, I don't think "England" necessarily "owns" America these days. To be more precise, it's the Rothschilds and their Rockefeller affilates that own us. The rest of the English are about as dirt poor as we are...

Forgive me, Trvlr, but I just don't buy into the two party system anymore.

[Trvlr45]

It's not that I don't like Palin, it's that McCain is an OLD man with serious health problems who could kick off in a blink while in office if elected. And if that happens, we'll have a woman with absolutely NO political experience on the International scene holding the highest office in America.

I don't want to see McCain die because no matter what anyone thinks about him or the war he was involved in you have to admire him for what he went through. Our military is never to blame for what goes on in a war. It is the criminals in the $3000 suits whose losses we are now paying for with the Bear Stearns bailout and Fannie and Freddy not to mention what is still on the horizon who are to blame.

If McCain does die in office I would LOVE to see Palin in the presidency. I wish she were in there now. Very few in politics understand what everyone on this website is dealing with these days. She does because she's blue collar and so is her husband. They get it because they live it just like all of us.

Last but not least, when was the last time we had a president who DIDN"T screw up foriegn policy in SOMEONES opinion. They ALL suck at foriegn policy. If she ever were in that position I say let her at it. How could she muck it up any worse than the rest have?

My dream on foriegn policy is let's stop funding the screw ups of other countries and mind our own biusiness. The problem is the global corporations and the central banking system don't want that. They want a one world govenment.

I say leave Palin alone. She hasn't done anything to anybody and she has done a lot for Alaska. Obama never did anything for Chicago except use an already corrupt system to get rich and become a senator.

[Trvlr45]

True to a point.

But that being said, does it really matter which candidate wins? BOTH are candidates who have been bought and controlled by the Big Money Boys, both have ties to the CFR and both seem to be puppets.

You can put your faith in Palin if you want to, but IMO she wouldn't have been picked by McCain unless she too had recieved the approval from the very people I already know you absolutely hate and despise.

Come on Trvlr. You already know both parties are controlled by the same people. The so-called differences don't need to be championed here.

If either party was actually "different," their candidate would never even make it to the starting gate.

I'm not "for" Obama any more than McCain. Whoever wins, I think it's just going to be more of the same.

The trouble I see with both Obama and Palin is that they both seem to be operating under the dillusion that they have the freedom to change things and I truly wish they were right.

But frankly, it may actually be easier to manipulate somebody who believes in themselves. At the very least it makes those candidates who do seem more believable to the public.

That doesn't mean that the candidates aren't sincere; I suspect that they are. Still, none of them would have gotten this far unless the Big Money Boys weren't reasonably certain they could control them.

By the way, I don't think "England" necessarily "owns" America these days. To be more precise, it's the Rothschilds and their Rockefeller affilates that own us. The rest of the English are about as dirt poor as we are...

Forgive me, Trvlr, but I just don't buy into the two party system anymore.

Kelly,

I don't buy into the two party system either. THAT is why I am so surprised that McCain picked Palin. Palin is NOT a republican any more than Ron Paul or Pat Buchannon are.. She's about the closest thing to Ron Paul in a skirt you could find. She's not connected in any way shape or form to ANY of the elites. She went to college in Idaho for pete's sake. Not Harvard or Yale or Princeton where ALL the slimy elites go to college.

That's why they hate her so much and it is also why I just don't understand McCain picking HER for the VP slot. She's as much of an outsider as you can get. Only time will tell what will happen down the road. Her husband works night shift on the north slope. Does THAT sound like a globalist shaker and mover to you?
I'm sorry, but I just don't see a governor with Palin's record in Alaska and her fisherman/oil rig worker husband slipping off to a CFR or Bilderberg meeting. It just doesn't compute.

[Trvlr45]

You can put your faith in Palin if you want to, but IMO she wouldn't have been picked by McCain unless she too had recieved the approval from the very people I already know you absolutely hate and despise.

No one knew of the pick. Absolutely no one until it was announced. C'mon Kelly. There could be a slight chance she isn't one of them, right? Think positive.

[skijake]

You can put your faith in Palin if you want to, but IMO she wouldn't have been picked by McCain unless she too had recieved the approval from the very people I already know you absolutely hate and despise.

No one knew of the pick. Absolutely no one until it was announced. C'mon Kelly. There could be a slight chance she isn't one of them, right? Think positive.

Palin is a breath of fresh air. Even if the ticket doesn't fly, I want somebody to take a swing and kick some tail. Not about going to war or stomping out some little country somewhere. I mean someone who will make us look in the mirror at ourselves and our country, kick us in the ass, and pat us on the back when the job is done[or atleast when we have lost the first 100 pounds]Alaska is literally a world away. Maybe the water up there is cleaner and she hasn't been tainted yet. She has cracked the ice in my veins and I want to believe. Paul had me reved up, but maybe a Trojan Horse can bring down the House. Just as a side note , don't forget who is a heartbeat away if O2-[Oprah is of course the BIG O1] doesn't make it through a full term. Biden, has experience--at talking LOL.

[Kelly]

Look, I like Palin too. I'm not "against" her.

But when the press reports that "No one knew of the pick. Absolutely no one until it was announced," I tend to be a bit sceptical. McCain, though often billed as the "maverik of the Republican party" has been entrenched in the good old boy network since day one. I simply cannot believe that he wasn't given a list of "approved" people from which to chose his pick.

Regardless of whether one likes Palin or not, choosing her as a running mate seemed a very obvious attempt to pull away female democratic voters who were previously backing Hilary and that's the kind of studied, predetermined move I've grown to expect from the game players.

I don't say that to discount Palin; she really had nothing to do with that move. She is a very, very likable and intelligent person and I agree; "a breath of fresh air." Never-the-less, I doubt that she was chosen because of her merits, so much as she was chosen because the party was looking to entice Hilary supporters over to the republican side.

[skijake]

Look, I like Palin too. I'm not "against" her.

But when the press reports that "No one knew of the pick. Absolutely no one until it was announced," I tend to be a bit sceptical. McCain, though often billed as the "maverik of the Republican party" has been entrenched in the good old boy network since day one. I simply cannot believe that he wasn't given a list of "approved" people from which to chose his pick.

Regardless of whether one likes Palin or not, choosing her as a running mate seemed a very obvious attempt to pull away female democratic voters who were previously backing Hilary and that's the kind of studied, predetermined move I've grown to expect from the game players.

I don't say that to discount Palin; she really had nothing to do with that move. She is a very, very likable and intelligent person and I agree; "a breath of fresh air." Never-the-less, I doubt that she was chosen because of her merits, so much as she was chosen because the party was looking to entice Hilary supporters over to the republican side.

Understood. Personally, I am so jaded by the obvious problems I see everywhere I sometimes feel like someone walking thru a war zone and stumbling across a house in perfect condition. I know it is probably a trap, but the heart wants to hope. Anyway , I know we are manipulated to death and as far as I can tell we always have been. I know this forum isn't political and I like it that way. Just had to share a thought!

[JaySpizzy]

The thing that worries me most about Palin is that underneath her hockey mom demeanor, she seems to be a religious extremist.

Her words

"Pray our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country — that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God," Palin said. "That's what we have to make sure that we're praying for, that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan."

are eerily similar someone who is sees our foreign strategies as a holy war. So much wrong has been done in history with this type of justification. Where is it coming from?

What is her motive?

[Vincent Vega]

I believe it's one thing to say what she did, Jay, and something entirely different to wage a jihad to kill all non-believers. I think she is merely saying what many Christians, myself included, believe - that God has a plan, and it's up to us to try to figure it out. Maybe she could have said it better, e.g. "May God protect our soldiers and bring them home safe," and that would have been more accepted by folks.

[JaySpizzy]

I believe it's one thing to say what she did, Jay, and something entirely different to wage a jihad to kill all non-believers. I think she is merely saying what many Christians, myself included, believe - that God has a plan, and it's up to us to try to figure it out. Maybe she could have said it better, e.g. "May God protect our soldiers and bring them home safe," and that would have been more accepted by folks.

I can see how you interpret it that way, but given her background, membership at the Wassila Assembly of God, paster Kalens, and their use of the bible and salvation to justify political stances and military action, I would suggest that we should at least hold her words up to greater scrutiny, as we did for Obama.

If you add the fact that, because of McCain's health and age, she is practically running for president, the caution should be even greater.

On a much lighter note, this video speculates on how the Palin choice was made:

http://webcastr.com/videos/humor/is-mccain-palis-bitch.html

And this one focuses on McCain's hidden rivals in the GOP

http://www.webcastr.com/videos/humor/war-for-the-whitehouse.html

[JesterJay]

Hi Jay,
Jay here.
Perhaps NObama was held up to scrutiny here or by you but he has had ZERO scrutiny from the big-name media.
None.
Zip.
He is their savior. Hero.
GOD.
Back to silver,
Buy all you can cuz
Spot is NOT!!!
JesterJay

PS ON a lighter note: Obama is Biden's Love Child with The Weathermen!
Humor is fun!!!

Apolo



I would suggest that we should at least hold her words up to greater scrutiny, as we did for Obama.

[Trvlr45]

I am about as far away from being religious as you can get without being a liberal and I could care less that she was a member of a church irregardless of her statement. What got Obama's hero, Reverend Wright in trouble was the way he talked about America. He hates this country. So does Obama. Obama is a racist proven by his own words in his books and by Reverend Wright. Palin, nor her pastor have said ANYTHING that can even remotely be viewed as America bashing or racist. THAT is the difference.

We have far bigger issues to deal with in this country than worrying about her religion or John McCain's age. I must point out that this country was founded on Judeo Christian values and whether anyone likes it or not that is the way it is. All you have to do is read through the Federalist Papers and you can see that the founders of this country believed in God, not Buddah or Mohammed or anyone else. They also didn't believe in government tyrrany which Obama believes in. Communists throughout history have ALWAYS killed off the christians because they want you to look at THEM as your god and a society without the core values and work ethic Christianity teaches is easier to enslave.

I'd rather have someone who went to church last sunday in the whitehouse than a Muslim Communist irregardless of some of the loopy ideas they may have. Give me a bible thumper telling me what to do over a communist ANY day!

The whole reason I brought up Palin in the first place had nothing to do with politics. It had to do with her being a Ron Paul supporter and Ron Paul is one of us. Jeez, I should have known this would stir up a hornets nest.

I cannot see how anyone who has researched Obama's background, is invested in silver or gold and cares at all about this country and our failing economy could POSSIBLY cast a vote for Obama. Britney Spears would be a better choice.

[Trvlr45]

Palin is a breath of fresh air. Even if the ticket doesn't fly, I want somebody to take a swing and kick some tail. Not about going to war or stomping out some little country somewhere. I mean someone who will make us look in the mirror at ourselves and our country, kick us in the ass, and pat us on the back when the job is done[or atleast when we have lost the first 100 pounds]Alaska is literally a world away. Maybe the water up there is cleaner and she hasn't been tainted yet. She has cracked the ice in my veins and I want to believe. Paul had me reved up, but maybe a Trojan Horse can bring down the House. Just as a side note , don't forget who is a heartbeat away if O2-[Oprah is of course the BIG O1] doesn't make it through a full term. Biden, has experience--at talking LOL.

The trojan horse idea is what I am hoping for. It could happen but with McCain's legislative record I wonder. This is just too weird. Only time will tell how this turns out.

[Trvlr45]

I can see how you interpret it that way, but given her background, membership at the Wassila Assembly of God, paster Kalens, and their use of the bible and salvation to justify political stances and military action, I would suggest that we should at least hold her words up to greater scrutiny, as we did for Obama.

There is FAR more about Obama that needs to be held up to scrutiny than just who his pastor was. It's all in "The Obamination" by Dr. Jerome Corsi and since Corsi is an American and an independent who doesn't support McCain it is difficult to say he's just pimping for McCain.

Corsi has written scathing books about a lot of subjects including "The Late Great America" where he documents what Bush has been doing behind our backs with Mexico and Canada.

It is impossible to disagree with Corsi because his books have footnotes so you can look up his sources for yourself. "The Obamination" has 700 footnotes. Obama's racist, American hating pastor is just the tip of the iceberg, believe me.

[Kelly]

Trvlr, say what you will about Palin, she isn't the one running for the Presidency; McCain is. I am not fond of the Iraq war, I don't think we have any business there and I think the war is and always has been a diversionary tactic to what is happeing right here at home.

That doesn't mean I am "for" Obama either. I have as many reservations about him as I do McCain. Both primary candidates are intimately connected to the Council on Foreign Relations and that means that both candidates are ultimately puppets playing to the bankers' game.

Palin may not be playing that kowtowing game, but the dude she is running with certainly is. Obama and his wife are no different in that respect.

At this point, I still have no candidate I can support in this election. And I would not have suported Hilary for precisely the same reasons.

[Trvlr45]

But when the press reports that "No one knew of the pick. Absolutely no one until it was announced," I tend to be a bit sceptical. McCain, though often billed as the "maverik of the Republican party" has been entrenched in the good old boy network since day one. I simply cannot believe that he wasn't given a list of "approved" people from which to chose his pick.

That's why the pick was a work of pure genious and keep in mind that if there is anyone who fits into the good'ol boy network, it's Biden. Obama had to pick someone like him because I doubt he could even find the whitehouse without Oprah to lead the way.

She, incidently, was a long time member of the exact same church as Obama. I guess we've got the goods on her as well. Nothing like a little racism and American bashing to go along with the $80 million a year and the billionaire net worth.

[Trvlr45]

Trvlr, say what you will about Palin, she isn't the one running for the Presidency; McCain is. I am not fond of the Iraq war, I don't think we have any business there and I think the war is and always has been a diversionary tactic to what is happeing right here at home.

That doesn't mean I am "for" Obama either. I have as many reservations about him as I do McCain. Both primary candidates are intimately connected to the Council on Foreign Relations and that means that both candidates are ultimately puppets playing to the bankers' game.

Palin may not be playing that kowtowing game, but the dude she is running with certainly is. Obama and his wife are no different in that respect.

At this point, I still have no candidate I can support in this election. And I would not have suported Hilary for precisely the same reasons.

I agree, Kelly. But the fact of the matter is that the next preident WILL appoint at least 2 Supreme Court Justices as well as other judges and there is no way I want Obama making that decision. That is the ONLY reason I will vote for McCain over the Constitution Party, which was my other pick, with, or without Palin. I could care less about everything else because as we both know, the banksters control it all and the fact that McCain is going to be the president and Palin will be the VP is not lost on me.

I'm just trying to buy some time. Do you want to ride a bus to hell or a Leer Jet?