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Steadfast
10th March 2010, 12:30
Tell me, honestly.... :rolleyes:

Who here actually thinks that today’s, 50 cent drop in 15 minutes, market action in silver and gold
WAS NOT flagrant manipulation to stop a run away bull run?

Come on, hold up your hand,
if you believe today’s massive drop was due to the
“we are going fix our spending, really we are.” story coming out of Greece.

Come on who among us actually bought it?

of one mine
10th March 2010, 12:47
I think it was bad news and the short term general markets. Economy,stagnant jobs,threat of higher taxes, just plain lows.
Manipulation somewhere in between.

of one mine

SRSrocco
10th March 2010, 12:47
BAD NEWS MAKES PRECIOUS METALS TANK??

What has occured is the Syndicate Banks have won the battle in BAMBOOZLING the public. Greek debt and default means bad news for all other debt in Europe, England and the United States.

California is far worse than Greece as many of you realize. To put a spotlight on Greece and the so called PIIGS is a way to destroy these countries first then move onto the beaches of the United States. State debt in the USA is going to the moon. That will be attacked by the CDS Syndicate Banks.

This is great news for Gold and Silver. But, of course manipulation and algorithm quants are doing there thing....and that is destroying the world financial system by computer programs. This is the end of globalism and the US economy as we know it. It won't take a decade or even years....this should disintegrate within 12-18 months.

ArchitectJS
10th March 2010, 12:49
i was wondering if todays $17 mark was a buying dip...

Jake
10th March 2010, 13:02
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SRSrocco
10th March 2010, 13:07
I notice in these blogs a great deal of people paper trading Silver and Gold. This might be a neat thing to do with a fraction of ones money, but it may turn out to be unwise when the US Dollar collapses overnight.

We never know when the USA TITANIC will sink....but if you are more in paper than bullion at the time, it may turn out to be a very bad joke when it does. The Financial system nearly imploded in 2008 when Lehman went under:


Keep in mind that post the Lehman crisis, it only took 3 days before the money markets locked up and were in need of governmental guarantees, while the broader repo market was shut down within 48 hours. As retail investors tend to enjoy obtaining physical delivery of their asset (read FRNs), for institutions, the wave can turn at a heartbeat, and next time around the administration will likely not even have 12 hours.

The only thing that has changed since then is the Phsycial Economy has disintegrated further, while the Shadow Banking and Derivative market has increased. There is only so far BULL FECES can be passed on as substancial change.

To steal a quote from the movie Sixth Sense:

"I SEE A LOT OF DEAD PEOPLE WALKING AROUND"

This I see too....a lot of Dead people walking around....and they don't even know it yet. What a shame.

Jake
10th March 2010, 13:19
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Jake
10th March 2010, 13:41
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beach miner
10th March 2010, 13:52
Great investment moves JoJo. Thanks for puttin them out there for us to see how it can be done. Disregard Master Guru, he has done more to destroy this forum than Duney and the Spammers combined. He claims to be a Conservative, but he uses the tactics of Sal Alinisky--Obama's Guru. I also admire your strong character to not get knocked down by this School Ground Bully who use to post his giant Avatars like Saddam Hussein posted his picture around Bagdad. Hang in there, your one of the few, the brave, the unbeaten. God Bless Ya, See Ya At The Top.

Jake
10th March 2010, 13:54
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beach miner
10th March 2010, 13:56
Looks like the shoe fits.

Jake
10th March 2010, 14:28
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Chris Mullen
10th March 2010, 14:45
Seriously Jake? There is no need for such vulgarity. Please refrain from it as I've been getting several complaints and have absolutely no desire to bother myself with it further.

Jake
10th March 2010, 16:44
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Matthew Shelley
10th March 2010, 17:38
You mean we're not allowed to use profanity when we have nothing constructive to say??

What the he<><> kind of a forum is this anyway?

: }

Matt

Jake
10th March 2010, 17:45
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Relayer
10th March 2010, 17:54
.......pure Manipulation!!!

main1event
10th March 2010, 18:33
Silver started up this morning from yesterdays low, we went up then closed back down a bit lower. Frankly I dont consider 2% moves manipulation or volatile. I see stocks that do that every day. It just goes to show how much on edge everyone is these days.

Sakata
10th March 2010, 18:39
One day does not manipulation make. Let's see what happens the rest of the week. Having said that, I will admit to a certain amount of suspicion.

Relayer
10th March 2010, 19:25
The dollar drops 50 cents between 3am and 9am, recovers 10 cents, and gold and silver get hammered! There was no reason, none, for a 60-65 cent sell off in silver or a $24 sell off in gold. No, one day does not, so how about 5 out of the last 6 trading days? Gold/silver has been taken down around 9am or shortly thereafter. And This has been going on so long its ridiculously obvious!!

Sakata
10th March 2010, 19:34
The dollar drops 50 cents between 3am and 9am, recovers 10 cents, and gold and silver get hammered! There was no reason, none, for a 60-65 cent sell off in silver or a $24 sell off in gold. No, one day does not, so how about 5 out of the last 6 trading days? Gold/silver has been taken down around 9am or shortly thereafter. And This has been going on so long its ridiculously obvious!!

And gold and silver are going up despite that. Be patient. A long, slow climb is much better than a quick, fragile one. As long as it doesn't go back down to $9 there is nothing to worry about. And the truth is, I do'nt think there would be much to worry about long term even if it did.

DaBrownsRPhat
10th March 2010, 20:09
I'm not a trader, so this is easy for me to say, but I just remind myself that I know where real money is going and where fiat currencies will end up. I do not play the market, just buy the dips and hold. Also though, I am not in this to make money really, but to me I feel that it may come down to survival. At the very least holding my buying power and not allowing the money printers to steal my wealth.

Until that day, I just try to let others know about information and continue to try to secure my position ..... for me and my family/friends and who knows who else possibly. Continue to educate myself, others, staying on top of current events, and I have to thank you all for being a very valuable help to me in my attempt to accomplish this.

Felix Carbury
10th March 2010, 20:18
Silver goes down, that’s manipulation. Silver goes up, perfectly normal, the way things are supposed to be. I got it now.

Sakata
10th March 2010, 20:36
Silver goes down, that’s manipulation. Silver goes up, perfectly normal, the way things are supposed to be. I got it now.

What took you so long?:D

silverheartbone
10th March 2010, 21:47
.......pure Manipulation!!!

Well yeah.
Of course.
What else could it be?
Does anyone reading here actually think that the spot price of silver is based on anything but the bankster whim?

If ANYONE reading here can point out which marketplace(s) that the spot price is derived from I'd be very impressed.
Like there's an actual market somewhere that actually sets a price of physical silver that is then used by the banksters! LOL. Yeah right. And I know a good deal on an east coast bridge.

As far as I can tell worldwide ALL bullion merchants use the spot price as given by the cartel.

And just who are the market makers for the SLV - FTF anyhow?
And exactly what could they possibly be doing all day any way?

skijake
10th March 2010, 22:18
I'm not a trader, so this is easy for me to say, but I just remind myself that I know where real money is going and where fiat currencies will end up. I do not play the market, just buy the dips and hold. Also though, I am not in this to make money really, but to me I feel that it may come down to survival. At the very least holding my buying power and not allowing the money printers to steal my wealth.

Until that day, I just try to let others know about information and continue to try to secure my position ..... for me and my family/friends and who knows who else possibly. Continue to educate myself, others, staying on top of current events, and I have to thank you all for being a very valuable help to me in my attempt to accomplish this.

Well thought out.
I second the Thanks to everyone.
I've watched these [takedowns] for a number of years and in a strange way I feel as long as they are able to orchestrate these take-downs, life will go on as it has for many years before [more or less].
When the takedowns don't work anymore I think we will find that the jig is up and we are about to hit a serious reboot.
Pray for higher Silver and Gold prices but know that things will be different.
I think we all know it's coming to some degree or another.
Just how long can they keep rigging the game?

Relayer
10th March 2010, 22:33
http://forums.silverseek.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=1413&stc=1&d=1268281869 Here is a long term chart on silver. You can clearly see the channel that silver has been tracking. Silver was recently taken down below the lower trend line. The plan was that it would crack and crater like it did in 2008. Didnt happen. Instead, silver has manage to rally very nice back above the lower trend line. Yesterday/Today was another attempt to take silver back down below the trend line. Everyone who uses charts and T/A can see this. The traders are like sheep and the idea is to get them to sell into this breakdown as they did the first week of Feb. The news report that China was leery about gold, was used to kick off the selling. Of course it is total BS. Like sheep, people consulted their charts and bailed. Jim Sinclair’s Commentary---Do what the Chinese do. Do not do what Reuters tells you they will do. The best book on negotiations in China is When Yes means No. China says committed to U.S. debt, wary on gold (Reuters) – China, the world’s biggest holder of foreign exchange reserves, renewed its commitment to the U.S. Treasury market on Tuesday but said it would be wary of substantially boosting its gold holdings. China The country’s chief currency regulator said China would attract more capital inflows this year, partly reflecting expectations of a stronger yuan, but he left the market none the wiser as to when Beijing might let the currency resume its rise. &quot;The U.S. Treasury market is the world’s largest government bond market. Our foreign exchange reserves are huge, so you can imagine that the U.S. Treasury market is an important one to us,&quot; Yi Gang, head of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange (SAFE), told a news conference. The exact composition of China’s $2.4 trillion of reserves, the world’s largest, is a state secret and the subject of intense scrutiny by global investors aware that, with such large sums at stake, even marginal portfolio shifts have the potential to move markets. Global investors are equally attuned to any clues about the yuan, given its role in China’s trade with the rest of the world and the potential spill-over effect a stronger yuan would have on other currencies in Asia. Speaking during the annual session of parliament, Yi expressed the hope that China’s presence in the U.S. Treasury market would not become a political football. China, he stressed, was not in the game of short-term currency speculation.

Relayer
10th March 2010, 22:43
GATA appeals to CFTC to act against manipulative shorts
By: Chris Powell and Bill Murphy, GATA

-- Posted Tuesday, 9 March 2010 | Digg This ArticleDigg It! | Share this article | Source: GoldSeek.com
Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:
GATA today delivered to the chairman of the U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission, Gary Gensler, a letter from GATA Chairman Bill Murphy, appealing to the CFTC to act against the concentrated and manipulative short positions in the precious metals markets. The commission is expected to hold a hearing this month on establishing position limits in those markets. Murphy's letter is appended.
CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.
* * *
March 8, 2010
Gary Gensler, Chairman
U.S. Commodity Futures Trading Commission
3 Lafayette Centre
1155 21st St. NW
Washington, DC 20581
Dear Chairman Gensler:
The Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee (GATA) was formed in January 1999 to expose and oppose the manipulation and suppression of the price of gold. What we have learned over the past 11 years is of great importance in regard to the CFTC’s forthcoming hearings regarding position limits in the precious metals futures markets. Our efforts to expose manipulation in the gold market parallel those of Harry Markopolos to expose the Madoff Ponzi scheme to the Securities and Exchange Commission.
Initially we thought that the manipulation of the gold market was undertaken as a coordinated profit scheme by certain bullion banks, like JPMorgan, Chase Bank, and Goldman Sachs, and that it violated federal and state anti-trust laws. But we soon discerned that the bullion banks were working closely with the U.S. Treasury Department and Federal Reserve in a gold cartel, part of a broad scheme of manipulation of the currency, precious metals, and bond markets.
As an executive at Goldman Sachs in London, Robert Rubin developed an idea to borrow gold from central banks at minimal interest rates (around 1 percent), sell the bullion for cash, and use the cash to fund Goldman Sachs' operations. Rubin was confident that central banks would control the gold price with ever-more leasing or outright sales of their gold reserves and that consequently the borrowed gold could be bought back without difficulty. This was the beginning of the gold carry trade.
When Rubin became U.S. treasury secretary, he made it government policy to surreptitiously operate an identical gold carry trade but on a much larger scale. This became the principal mechanism of what was called the "strong-dollar policy." Subsequent treasury secretaries have repeated a commitment to a "strong dollar," suggesting that they were continuing to feed official gold into the market more or less clandestinely to support the dollar and suppress interest rates and precious metals prices.
Lawrence Summers, who followed Rubin as treasury secretary, was an expert in gold's influence on financial markets. Previously, as a professor at Harvard University, Summers co-authored an academic study titled "Gibson's Paradox and the Gold Standard," (see Footnote 1 below) which concluded that in a free market gold prices move inversely to real interest rates, and, conversely, if gold prices are "fixed," then interest rates can be maintained at lower levels than would be the case in a free market. This was the economic theory behind the "strong dollar policy."
Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan understood Summers' research when he remarked at a 1993 meeting of the Federal Open Market Committee:
"I was raising the question on the side with Governor Mullins of what would happen if the Treasury sold a little gold in this market. There's an interesting question here because if the gold price broke in that context, the thermometer would not be just a measuring tool. It would basically affect the underlying psychology." (See Footnote 2 below.)
GATA has collected reams of evidence that Western central bank gold has long been mobilized and surreptitiously dishoarded to rig the gold market and influence related markets and that this rigging has drawn upon the U.S. gold reserves.
President Obama has called for greater transparency in both the federal government and the financial markets. In pursuit of such transparency GATA has made Freedom of Information Act requests to the Federal Reserve and Treasury Department for a candid accounting of their involvement in the gold market, particularly in regard to gold swaps. In a reply to GATA's lawyers dated September 17, 2009, Fed Governor Kevin M. Warsh acknowledged that the Federal Reserve has gold swap agreements with foreign banks but insisted that such documents remain secret. (See Footnote 3 below.)
As a result, last December GATA sued the Federal Reserve in U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia, seeking access to the Federal Reserve's withheld records of gold swaps.
Understanding that the manipulation of the price of gold is profoundly important to all markets and the American public, on January 31, 2008, GATA placed a full-page color advertisement in The Wall Street Journal at a cost of $264,000. (See Footnote 4 below.) GATA's ad warned, "This manipulation has been a primary cause of the catastrophic excesses in the markets that now threaten the whole world." What GATA warned against has come to pass.
GATA has long implicated the New York Commodities Exchange (Comex) as being a mechanism by which gold and silver price suppression is implemented. The smoking gun is the excessive concentration of bullion bank positions in the gold and silver futures markets. This concentration enables market manipulation -- just as market concentration was the justification offered by the CFTC in 1980 when it acted against the Hunt Brothers in the silver market.
The weekly commitment of traders report documents the total net short position of commercial traders in the commodity markets. The monthly bank participation reports disclose the holdings of U.S. banks in various markets. In a letter to GATA dated February 19, 2009, Laura Gardy, a CFTC legal assistant, wrote, "The commission determined that where the number of banks in each reporting category is particularly small, fewer than four banks, there exists the potential to extrapolate both the identity of individual banks and the banks' positions. As a result, as of December 2009 the CFTC no longer names the number of banks when it is less than four."
The CFTC has been investigating possible manipulation of the silver market for more than a year, so this reporting change is disturbing to us, as it reduces transparency and the ability to uncover market manipulation.
The CFTC's own reports of November 2009 show that just two U.S. banks held 43 percent of the commercial net short position in gold and 68 percent of the commercial net short position in silver. In gold, these two banks were short 123,331 contracts but long only 523 contracts, and in silver they were short 41,318 contracts and long only 1,426 contracts. How improbable is it that these two banks attract most of the investors who want only to sell short? (See Footnote 5 below.)
It has been possible to extrapolate that the two banks that hold these large manipulative short positions on the Comex are JPMorgan Chase and HSBC because of their huge positions in the OTC derivatives market, whose regulator, the U.S. Office of the Comptroller of the Currency, does not provide anonymity when it publishes market data. (See Footnote 6 below.) In the first quarter 2009 OCC derivatives report, JPMorgan Chase and HSBC held more than 95 percent of the gold and precious metals derivatives of all U.S. banks, with a combined notional value of $120 billion. This concentration dwarfs the concentration in the gold and silver futures markets and should raise great concern about the lack of position limits on the Comex.
It is also disturbing to us that HSBC is the custodian for the major gold exchange-traded fund, GLD, and that JPMorgan Chase is the custodian for the major silver exchange-traded fund, SLV. It is a significant material omission to fail to disclose to GLD and SLV investors that the custodian banks of the two exchange-traded funds have an interest in falling prices in the futures and derivatives markets.
Detailed daily monitoring of gold trading reveals these patterns:
1. In recent years gold price suppression has been apparent from the near-complete failure of the gold price to rise more than 2 percent per day on the Comex (what GATA calls the 2 Percent Rule) while there is no corresponding restriction on days when the gold price is falling.
2. At option expiry gold almost always falls to a point where a large number of call options have been written, nullifying the value of the options. Typically, the price rallies immediately after option expiration.
3. The gold price consistently falls at 3 a.m. New York time when the gold cartel’s traders report to work in London, and again following the PM gold price fix, when physical market pricing has concluded for the day, and in the access market following the Comex close.
No other market trades so repetitively.
GATA has evidence that there are enormous physical short positions in the gold and silver markets that cannot be covered. Because of the decades-long interference with the gold market, we estimate that the free-market price of gold is multiples of the current price. Growing stress caused by burgeoning physical bullion demand is threatening to lead to a price explosion, which will restore to the market the balance that regulation has failed to maintain. In our view, the Comex paper market will become dysfunctional, with "force majeure" having to be declared as the concentrated shorts are unable to deliver on their obligations.
We urge the CFTC to report fully and candidly on these markets and take appropriate action.
Sincerely,
WILLIAM J. MUPRHY III, Chairman
Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.

Relayer
10th March 2010, 22:54
Listen to this interview with Jim Sinclair. The reason(s) is(are) spelled out very clearly.


GOLD IS A CURRENCY.

Central Banks do not want anything competing with their FIAT CURRENCIES.



http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/3/10_Jim_Sinclair__Part_II_files/Jim%20Sinclair%20Part2%203%3A10%3A2010.mp3

tom1000000
10th March 2010, 23:20
The letter to the CFTC from GATA is good but it doesn't make one clear statement.

The letter should have said something like:

It is clear that the Securities Exchange Commission completely failed to stop the Madoff scam even though they have had multiple warnings.
The CFTC has had multiple warnings that the PM market is being manipulated, but is doing nothing. Does the CFTC want to look incompetent like the SEC did?

Sakata
10th March 2010, 23:24
Presumably the answer is "yes". Don't forget, they are both part of the Goldman Sachs merry-go-round.

Relayer
10th March 2010, 23:49
Days Not to Buy Gold Identified
http://numismaster.com/images/uploaded/60807/ArtAvatar9741.jpgBy Patrick A. Heller, Numismatic News
March 09, 2010

Despite the fact that the price of gold rose more in the previous decade than almost all U.S. paper assets, the rise has no short rapid spurts. Actually, the market action that limits gold from breaking upward is just one more bit of evidence of the manipulation of gold prices.

Savvy analysts have long noted (http://www.shopnumismaster.com/product/gold-rush/4/?r=NUM_NU_030910) that as the price of gold might trend upward during daily trading, it has almost never increased by more than 2 percent from the previous day’s COMEX close. Once the price of gold might increase by 2 percent, that event would almost automatically trigger a round of sell orders to either cap the rise or even cause the price to retreat. Even if buyers stepped up their purchasing, it was obvious that a maximum of a 2 percent daily increase at the COMEX close was the unpublicized “rule” imposed by the U.S. government and its trading partners.

This rule of gold price manipulation also has an accompanying rule. If the price of gold goes up by 2 percent in one day, it is prevented from rising by more than 1 percent the following day. Further, under no circumstances is gold to be allowed to rise consistently, as this pattern would attract more buyers.

A few months ago, commodity researcher Adrian Douglas (whom I cited in last week’s column) reported on his long-term study of the COMEX gold closes. He tracked the percentage change from one trading day to the next. Over the course of the study, the price of gold declined from one day to the next by more than 2 percent over 100 times. It increased by more than 2 percent only six times – and this in a market where the price rose by a huge percentage over time. Only once, as best I recall, did the price of gold increase by more than 2 percent one day and by more than 1 percent the next day. Yet there were numerous instances of consecutive daily price declines of 2 percent or more.

A market free of manipulation with prices rising over time would normally show a greater percentage of strong up days than down days. A pattern of continuous price rises would encourage the “momentum” investors to enter the market. Those wishing to hold down the price of gold have an incentive to discourage such investors from helping to drive up gold even higher. The unusual consistency of this 2 percent rule is signature of a manipulated market.

Steadfast
11th March 2010, 10:02
The dollar drops 50 cents between 3am and 9am, recovers 10 cents, and gold and silver get hammered! There was no reason, none, for a 60-65 cent sell off in silver or a $24 sell off in gold. No, one day does not, so how about 5 out of the last 6 trading days? Gold/silver has been taken down around 9am or shortly thereafter. And This has been going on so long its ridiculously obvious!!

AMEN!
PREACH IT BROTHER! :-D

Steadfast
11th March 2010, 10:06
Well thought out.
I second the Thanks to everyone.
I've watched these [takedowns] for a number of years and in a strange way I feel as long as they are able to orchestrate these take-downs, life will go on as it has for many years before [more or less].
When the takedowns don't work anymore I think we will find that the jig is up and we are about to hit a serious reboot.
Pray for higher Silver and Gold prices but know that things will be different.
I think we all know it's coming to some degree or another.
Just how long can they keep rigging the game?

AMEN AGAIN!

It is good to know,
That not everyone has sipped the liberal Biased Media's kool-aid!