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goldsilber
20th February 2010, 09:46
In September 2009, the IMF’s Executive Board approved gold sales totaling 403.3 metric tons (12,965,649 troy ounces).
Having already sold over half that amount to several central banks, the IMF is now looking to sell the remaining 191.3 tons of gold.
“The top priority in conducting the gold sales is to avoid disruption to the gold market,” said Andrew Tweedie, Director of the IMF’s Finance Department. “Prior to any sales on the gold market, sales were first made exclusively to interested central banks, thus shifting gold within the official sector. Now the IMF will begin sales of the remaining gold on the market. This will be done in a phased way.”

Purchaser Amount Date
Reserve Bank of India 200 tons October 19-30
Bank of Mauritius 2 tons November 11
Central Bank of Sri Lanka 10 tons November 23
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/survey/so/2010/NEW021710A.htm

The 200 tons gold for India were sold within 11 days. The other two sales were 1 day ones. So, it needed the whole of 13 days for the IMF to sell 212 tons of gold.
“The top priority in conducting the gold sales is to avoid disruption to the gold market”
:D :D

Something is telling me that the remaining 191 tons won't float for years around the world markets looking for a buyer. I guess that a bigger portion of them will end up in China. Maybe with another 1 day arrangement. ("Now the IMF will begin sales of the remaining gold on the market. This will be done in a phased way.” :D :D )

India brought home at that time 94 % of the first package.
I wonder how big a slice will the People's Bank of China take home this time, and I'd like to know your estimation.
(I wouldn't be surprised if India and China at that time agreed to divide between themselves the IMF gold sale.)

akak
20th February 2010, 13:00
How do we actually know that the IMF actually sold the gold that they claim they did to India?

I have read allegations that this putative "sale" was really just made via paper transfers. How can anyone actually verify that such a transfer of physical bullion really took place? Further, I have read in the past that the IMF in fact does NOT hold any actual physical gold, but merely has claims on the stockpiles of various national governments, in which case, again, this may have been nothing more than the IMF "selling" India gold that India already held!

I have tried to research this topic further, and have been frustrated by the lack of information. I hope some of you know more about the IMF and its so-called "gold holdings" than I have been able to gather so far.

DaleFromCalgary
20th February 2010, 14:32
"How do we actually know that the IMF actually sold the gold that they claim they did to India?"

Other than the Reserve Bank of India proudly announcing the sale, I suppose there would be no other proof. I can't see why India would brag about the gold if they didn't actually take possession.

aequitas
20th February 2010, 21:03
I'm sure that India took delivery, if they didnt then they are dumber than I thought.

goldsilber
24th February 2010, 09:21
Yes:
Will China miss buying gold from the International Monetary Fund (IMF)? It looks that China will miss the bus in buying gold from IMF as the latter is going ahead to sell 191 tonnes of gold soon in the open bullion market.
“China has been waiting for gold prices to plunge to buy the IMF gold. But it looks gold price is not going to plunge below $1,000 per ounce in the nearest future...” says Kevin Julian, a bullion analyst stationed in Beijing.
Julian says at the current market price of about $ 1,120 an ounce, the IMF gold to be sold would be worth nearly 6.9 billion dollars and “obviously, China feels that this is a bloody high price.” “Therefore, it looks that China will not be able or willing to buy even an ounce of IMF gold,” he added.
David Lew
http://www.commodityonline.com/news/Will-China-miss-IMF-gold-buying-bus-25783-3-1.html

No:
In the years to come, China will continue to steadily build its gold reserves through domestic production. It will also attempt to purchase whatever gold it can on the world market through official sector purchases or whatever additional means it finds at its disposal.
Michael Kosares
http://news.goldseek.com/GoldSeek/1245952397.php

goldsilber
25th February 2010, 09:10
Yes:
Contrary to much speculation China may not buy the International Monetary Fund's (IMF) remaining 191.3 tons of gold which is up for sale as it does not want to upset the market, a top industry official told China Daily Tuesday.
“It is not feasible for China to buy the IMF bullion, as any purchase or even intent to do so would trigger market speculation and volatility,” said the official from the China Gold Association, on condition of anonymity.
He said China would continue to shore up its gold reserves by acquiring gold mines abroad rather than purchases on the international market.
Zhu Baoliang, a researcher at the State Information Center, said China would not hike its gold reserves given the limited quantity available on the market. “Gold is only a small portion of the nation's reserves,” he said.

No:
Gao Rukun, a researcher at Beijing Gold Economy Center, said that such a percentage is far too low and China should increase its gold reserves to 1,800 tons by 2014.
However, Asian Development Bank economist Zhuang Jian noted that buying IMF gold would not only help China diversify its foreign exchange reserves but also strengthen the yuan as an international currency.
Zhuang said China could have a bigger say in the IMF through the gold purchasing deal. “China can start with small purchases :D on the international market like the 191.3 tons of IMF gold. In the short term, the market will see volatility, but in the long term the prices will return to normal.”

http://www.chinapost.com.tw/china/business/2010/02/25/245886/China-unlikely.htm

goldsilber
25th February 2010, 09:20
NEW DELHI/MUMBAI, India -- India's central bank, which has increased its gold holdings to diversify its reserves, looks set to be a buyer again when the International Monetary Fund begins selling 191.3 tonnes of the precious metal amid volatility in major currencies.
The uncertain outlook for two of the world's major reserve currencies -- the dollar and euro -- provides a spur for central banks, including India's, to buy gold. India's gold holdings lag those of major economies despite a big purchase in October.
"They can't lift their gold holdings from domestic output, unlike China. And they have shown an appetite to buy in the past."

Reserve Bank of India officials declined to comment on their gold plans but some said the central bank considered gold to be a safe investment strategy.
"We are closely looking at the gold market. We buy at market prices," an RBI official said.
None of the officials would speak on the record, given the sensitivity of the matter.

The IMF said last Wednesday it would soon begin selling the gold in the open market in a phased manner to avoid disrupting the market. :D :D

http://in.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idINSGE61N01O20100224

IMF: Ladies and gentlemen, we are considering to sell our gold in a phased manner... BANG! (whole package gone) ... to avoid... disrupting... well...

silverheartbone
25th February 2010, 10:40
NEW DELHI/MUMBAI, India -- ...

And I thought that Dallas/Ft. Worth was too big. http://forums.silverseek.com/images/smilies/icon_cool.gif

goldsilber
27th February 2010, 07:22
No:

China To Purchase Half of IMF's Gold
http://english.pravda.ru/business/finance/25-02-2010/112369-china_gold-0


Yes:

Contacted by Reuters, the author ... said she did not have any official information to back up her story.
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE61P0QZ20100226

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Competition for the IMF’s Gold?


IMF: “The top priority in conducting the gold sales is to avoid disruption to the gold market”... "this will be done in a phased way..." :D :D

As I said, I'd have bet that the two had agreed to split between themselves the IMF gold. Maybe I was wrong.

goldsilber
27th February 2010, 07:38
China's overall reserves total $2.4 trillion.
China Investment Corp. holdings total $200 billion.
In December China sold 34 billions US Treasury bonds.

The difference between buying the 191 gold tons at 1000 $ and at 1100$ amounts to more or less 0,6 billions.
Can someone imagine the Chinese taking the risk to lose the IMF gold package in order to spare 0,6 billions $? :rolleyes:

goldsilber
14th March 2010, 07:11
How do we actually know that the IMF actually sold the gold that they claim they did to India?

I have read allegations that this putative "sale" was really just made via paper transfers. How can anyone actually verify that such a transfer of physical bullion really took place? Further, I have read in the past that the IMF in fact does NOT hold any actual physical gold, but merely has claims on the stockpiles of various national governments, in which case, again, this may have been nothing more than the IMF "selling" India gold that India already held!

I have tried to research this topic further, and have been frustrated by the lack of information. I hope some of you know more about the IMF and its so-called "gold holdings" than I have been able to gather so far.

Akak, I'm not sure this can help:

http://www.gata.org/node/8340
The IMF really doesn't have any gold, just a tenuous claim on the national gold reserves of its members. Where the IMF's supposed gold is kept is a state secret. So is the location of the gold the IMF supposedly recently sold to India, Sri Lanka, and Mauritius. So are the gold bar numbers. There is no public evidence that the IMF's gold even exists, no public evidence that last year's supposed IMF gold sales were anything more than bookkeeping entries.


http://www.imf.org/external/np/exr/faq/goldfaqs.htm
The scope for sales of gold to one or more official holders should be explored. This would be advantageous because such transactions would redistribute official gold holdings without changing total official holdings.

I'm not sure to have understood the last sentence, but IMO such a redestribution cannot take place without physical deliveries. :confused: :confused:

goldsilber
14th March 2010, 07:17
Yes:
March 9 (Bloomberg) -- Gold is “unlikely” to be China’s primary investment to diversify its reserve holdings because of price risks, Yi Gang, head of the State Administration of Foreign Exchange, said today.

No:
March 9 (Bloomberg) -- Gold is “unlikely” to be China’s primary investment ...

DaleFromCalgary
14th March 2010, 08:00
"Something is telling me that the remaining 191 tons won't float for years around the world markets looking for a buyer."

It has already been floating around since September 2009.

goldsilber
21st March 2010, 07:36
"Something is telling me that the remaining 191 tons won't float for years around the world markets looking for a buyer."

It has already been floating around since September 2009.

Dale, with all the respect due to someone who stand up on sunday at 8 am to contribute to the forum:

According to the modalities for the gold sales adopted by the Executive Board, the Fund initially stood ready to sell gold off-market directly to central banks and other official sector holders at market prices.
Second, the gold sales will be conducted on-market. As one of the elements of transparency in the sales, the Fund informed markets that on market gold sales were about to commence on February 17, 2010.
http://www.imf.org/External/NP/EXR/faq/goldfaqs.htm

Ergo, the 191 gold tons designed to be sold in the on-market way are floating around only since a month.

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I've found this old (last summer's) post of Seeketc.etc.
Quite interesting thoughts.


Been reading some commentary on recent IMF gold sale. Seems significant that it requires US Congressional approval AND coincides with US Treas Sec Geithner meeting with Chinese debtors.

Also posited as significant is that much of the gold up for sale isn't .999 bars, it's old melt from US coin. Maybe, maybe not. But apparently, US gold reserves haven't been audited since the Eisenhower administration.

All these articles lead me to believe that a connection exists between this IMF gold sale and China's nervousness about the US willingness to dilute her debt obligation to China.

I imagine that US is throwing a golden bone to China as a measure of good faith, with assurances (a la Bernacke's remarks today) of beefing up the USD.

Thoughts?